Celtics Annual Results - Shareholdings

StokeyBear said:
Wouldn´t get too excited until we see ours.
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Indeed. Given we have been posting huge annual losses anyway, even with Directors cash injections, we can only look to the Dhims figures and expect a somewhat similar drop in revenue (circa 13%). Last seasons results from us will also include the deferred salary payments the staff took at the end of the season before plus there may be big bonus payments for winning the title. Therefore our expenditure may well have increased significantly. We will have our first signs of benefit from the Castore deal though. The recent Tifosy share issue, I think, was too late for last season's results so the deficit on the balance sheet is likely to be massive once again.

Its nice to laugh at the Dhims lies being exposed in their results but there's stuff in there that might well give a pointer to what we can expect from our own results.
 
Monty_greenock34 said:
They've spent £34million on players in two years and look what they are sitting with lol

The only part that bothers me is they still claw back chunks of that selling players where as we struggle upto now to earn on players out fees.
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We could potentially lose Goldson and probably will for f*ck all that doesn’t bother me really because what would we have got for him 4-6 million last year of his contract and could we have replaced him with that no guarantee.

What bothers me is the mistakes he seems to be continually making and looks half the player he was last season, doesn’t bode well with me with somebody who’s running down a contract let’s hope the fog clears from his head soon same could be said for another couple of players though.
 
Crouchy said:
They have a healthy cash position.

£16.2m.

Given Covid, like it or not, that’s not a bad set of books.

Their merchandise deal is strong, they can sell players for good sums and seemed to have survived the pandemic in relative shape.

Anyone got their wage to turnover ratio?
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Can you clarify @Crouchy, I take this comment as meaning they have circa £16m in cash AFTER accounting for any bank loans. If that's the case then it is a healthy position. Bold highlighting is mine. Their fans are raging about the club hoarding their cash instead of spending it on players LOL.

  • Year-end cash net of bank borrowings of £16.6m (2020: £18.2m)
 
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Valley Bluenose said:
Can you clarify @Crouchy, I take this comment as meaning they have circa £16m in cash AFTER accounting for any bank loans. If that's the case then it is a healthy position. Bold highlighting is mine.

  • Year-end cash net of bank borrowings of £16.6m (2020: £18.2m)
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Yeah, they have £19.5m cash and £2.9m of loans.

The cash being season ticket cash that they've taken in.
 
The thing about having cash in the bank, is that just a snapshot in time?

They may have over 16 million in the bank when these accounts were prepared but that money will be required to get them through the year.

It's not like they have the money in the account all year just generating interest.

Creative accounting.
 
Valley Bluenose said:
Indeed. Given we have been posting huge annual losses anyway, even with Directors cash injections, we can only look to the Dhims figures and expect a somewhat similar drop in revenue (circa 13%). Last seasons results from us will also include the deferred salary payments the staff took at the end of the season before plus there may be big bonus payments for winning the title. Therefore our expenditure may well have increased significantly. We will have our first signs of benefit from the Castore deal though. The recent Tifosy share issue, I think, was too late for last season's results so the deficit on the balance sheet is likely to be massive once again.

Its nice to laugh at the Dhims lies being exposed in their results but there's stuff in there that might well give a pointer to what we can expect from our own results.
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Given that the season ticket revenue was still taken in then the obvious area of loss for us is hospitality.

However RTV may well have brought in more income. Plus Castore surely has increased merch revenue.

So wins and losses.
 
Ron Swanson said:
The thing about having cash in the bank, is that just a snapshot in time?

They may have over 16 million in the bank when these accounts were prepared but that money will be required to get them through the year.

It's not like they have the money in the account all year just generating interest.

Creative accounting.
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Yes, it's the cash balance at its best, and, as you say, it'll be needed to pay their expenses during the year.

Saying that, we do the same.
 
As has been said I don't think ours will be great reading but it will be interesting to see our headline figures for the merchandise deal and what we made in Europe without crowds. Surely the Castor aggressive sales tactics and the 55 merchandise added quite a bit onto the total. With no player sales we could easily see us losing a bit more than £11m but in a season like last year what are the experts on here predicting?
 
There are lies, damned lies, and end of year financial reports. Accountants can make numbers look however they want based on some clever interpretation of the facts however given covid there'll be very few provincial football clubs come out of last year looking great financially.
 
brain said:
So the high cash is pretty meaningless because it’s purely because of the timing of the accounts that it is high?
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Yes, although it's still not bad given the fact that it was a Covid year, and it's only down slightly on the prior year.
 
Rickymck said:
As has been said I don't think ours will be great reading but it will be interesting to see our headline figures for the merchandise deal and what we made in Europe without crowds. Surely the Castor aggressive sales tactics and the 55 merchandise added quite a bit onto the total. With no player sales we could easily see us losing a bit more than £11m but in a season like last year what are the experts on here predicting?
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I think it was projected that this business year would see losses of £14m, hopefully it is no more than that
 
Ron Swanson said:
The thing about having cash in the bank, is that just a snapshot in time?

They may have over 16 million in the bank when these accounts were prepared but that money will be required to get them through the year.

It's not like they have the money in the account all year just generating interest.

Creative accounting.
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Every business does that. It is standard practice.
 
Monty_greenock34 said:
Teams might be paying them up. They'll only count what they've received upto now but I still believe they've told a few porkies when it comes to what they report to have got for players.
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Surely that wouldn’t matter. It’s not cash flow, it’s accounting for transactions.
 
Valley Bluenose said:
Indeed. Given we have been posting huge annual losses anyway, even with Directors cash injections, we can only look to the Dhims figures and expect a somewhat similar drop in revenue (circa 13%). Last seasons results from us will also include the deferred salary payments the staff took at the end of the season before plus there may be big bonus payments for winning the title. Therefore our expenditure may well have increased significantly. We will have our first signs of benefit from the Castore deal though. The recent Tifosy share issue, I think, was too late for last season's results so the deficit on the balance sheet is likely to be massive once again.

Its nice to laugh at the Dhims lies being exposed in their results but there's stuff in there that might well give a pointer to what we can expect from our own results.
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Hopefully less expenditure on legal fees in the next set of accounts as well. Hopefully...
 
Prod Wallace said:
20 million from stadium operations, in a closed stadium?
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ICA_86 said:
Essentially they’re doing reasonably okay financially due to player sales then?

You can tell from general discussion that a lot of Rangers fans are totally against that model, but there’s simply no way around it for us. It’s got to happen and I expect to see sales even as early as January if the money is right.
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agreed, but Ross Wilson was also very keen to point out club valuation of our squad.

Our assets are far far more than Celtics who have cashed in, reinvested in shit.

Even if Lundstram, Sakala, and Bakuna are sold for only 2.5m each. lol thats near 6m profit once Huddersfield get their share.
 
Valley Bluenose said:
Indeed. Given we have been posting huge annual losses anyway, even with Directors cash injections, we can only look to the Dhims figures and expect a somewhat similar drop in revenue (circa 13%). Last seasons results from us will also include the deferred salary payments the staff took at the end of the season before plus there may be big bonus payments for winning the title. Therefore our expenditure may well have increased significantly. We will have our first signs of benefit from the Castore deal though. The recent Tifosy share issue, I think, was too late for last season's results so the deficit on the balance sheet is likely to be massive once again.

Its nice to laugh at the Dhims lies being exposed in their results but there's stuff in there that might well give a pointer to what we can expect from our own results.
Click to expand...

We should also see another payment from insurers regarding COVID.
 
Cyberniv said:
Possibly.
A very large amount to go without being given a description in the Accounts. Just a whiff of ‘we don’t want to say what that is’ about it, which leads to more questions.
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Yes I thought that was strange. No previous year comparable and no note to give details. Think I read that this is an abbreviated set of accounts that has been released. On the face of it this is a decent set of numbers so I wonder about the lack of detail in some areas.
 
Crouchy said:
Every business does that. It is standard practice.
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Not really, most businesses would time their accounts for the end of the cycle. Most football clubs end theirs just as season ticket money has come in even though that is advance payment for the year to come. Makes their balance look good but professional finance people know it's all a game.
 
aghalee_hero said:
People know that most players sales are like new cars right? You put a large down payment on it and then there are installments over years. Barely anybody just bank transfers £15.5m for one player and and that's the end of it. They will be drip fed more player income. They are very good at selling players, we are not.
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Agree with what you are saying about them getting more in player sales in the past, but we are a totally different proposition now under Gerrard. With the people we have in place I would be surprised if we weren't at least as good at getting value for players if the time comes to sell some.
 
Bilbotheblue said:
The disclosure required says furlough grants should be disclosed as revenue in a separate line. Other income is the standard description being used on the income statement. Would’ve expected it to be clarified in the notes though.
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Would there be the same requirement in an abbreviated set of accounts?
 
erskine bear said:
£5m per year guaranteed, up to £9m (between £7-9m) depending on sales - from memory Tom or Phil Beahon said this.

(You’d fancy us to meet these targets).
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It is around £3m up front.
'In all of these deals, there are tiers. There is an element that is paid to the club up front, that is paid right on day one, which in this deal is about £3million.'

fourladshadadream.blog

Tom Beahon the interview – Castore, the truth of the £25m deal, Kit and megastore news

Interview with Tom Beahon as we discuss all things Castore and Rangers The finances of this deal ⚪️ Megastore, fanzone and training ground news Third kit colour news
fourladshadadream.blog fourladshadadream.blog
 
Mr Wilton said:
It’s not, but the money they’ve spent which had made them far poorer on the park is good. The likes of Hart 3 year deal and McCarthy 4 year deal on £25k a week! The current decision making is awful and in time that will come to a head.
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Won't have been all payments up front perhaps
GeckoBear29 said:
That’s not how the gain on a sale of a player registration works.
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Alan Johnson said:
It is around £3m up front.
'In all of these deals, there are tiers. There is an element that is paid to the club up front, that is paid right on day one, which in this deal is about £3million.'

fourladshadadream.blog

Tom Beahon the interview – Castore, the truth of the £25m deal, Kit and megastore news

Interview with Tom Beahon as we discuss all things Castore and Rangers The finances of this deal ⚪️ Megastore, fanzone and training ground news Third kit colour news
fourladshadadream.blog fourladshadadream.blog
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Ah thanks mate, I’ve obviously interpreted up the £25m part wrong - apologies.
 
What happened to their long term Co-Op debt (£18m on very favourable interest rates) ??

Is that still in the accounts
 
Probably worth a different thread when our Accounts are declared to have a comparison of the clubs’ Retail incomes , would be vital reading .
 
Alan Johnson said:
It will be good to see the actual figure when our accounts are released,I'd like to think with the amount of merchandise bought we'd be above the £5m mark?
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How many did Bisgrove say we’d sold, was it 250,000 before the new kits were released?.

If that’s correct then you’d imagine between £5-7m.

“Our target for the first year is to do 500,000 jerseys.

“Based on the first 36 hours of sales we have seen, what we have got in the pipeline for products and the fans’ reaction, I think those numbers are eminently achievable (£5-9m).”
 
lou riccios chipshop said:
I'm only on page 1 so I hope this hasn't already been said.

You can book in the full amount you're being paid for a player immediately even though you might not get the full amount in one go.
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Does that include clauses?

There’s no way Celtic will get £15m for Ajer unless Brentford stay up for at least one season, for example.
 
Valley Bluenose said:
Can you clarify @Crouchy, I take this comment as meaning they have circa £16m in cash AFTER accounting for any bank loans. If that's the case then it is a healthy position. Bold highlighting is mine. Their fans are raging about the club hoarding their cash instead of spending it on players LOL.

  • Year-end cash net of bank borrowings of £16.6m (2020: £18.2m)
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I read that as they have 16.6 available to them in sure they increased their od from 3 mil to 10 how they do their books had always being weird is also hide fact that they will have just recurve season ticket money etc at that point
 
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