Celtics Annual Results - Shareholdings

So from a couple of informed posts on here. Its now appears, categorically, and undeniably, untrue they got the fees reported from player sales?

Not that im shocked. Only a full blown moon howler would believe they got £11.5M for Frimpong. He wasnt even a guaranteed starter and literally requested a transfer.

Hopefully those who give them the benefit of the doubt on these things, now realise, the type of club you are dealing with. They lie about absolutely everything, from being a seperate entity, to attendances, to season ticket sales and transfer fees.
 
Without looking too much their accounting detail, what is clear that they are on a downward spiral and have been for a few years now, both financially and in footballing terms. The days of Rodgers team and nine figure group revenues, whilst we were still rebuilding, are long gone. All we need to do is keep winning for the next year or two, and they will be in the rear view mirror.
 
It’s all gobbledygook to me but they certainly don’t look as minted as everyone in the media and their pals keep boasting about.

Cash rich and all that…
 
Not normal to receive transfer fees in one amount, normally spread over 3 or 4 periods.
Not normal accounting to report sales in the period cash is received. Normal accounting would be to credit sales and debit debtors on balance sheet. When cash is received it is taken off debtors. Bookkeeping 101.
The only reason not to book the revenue at the point of sale would be if there were sufficient conditions attached as to make its receipt reasonably uncertain
 
Ours will just be as bad but agree theirs isn’t reported SMSM like ours will be.

But I am not surprised.

But what we need to do nearly as good as they are doing is player trading and getting good transfer fees.
 
I hope the other income £5 million is a government loan or covid allowance .... After all the fuss that was made about us using this facility "cause we/you are skint".

We we belittled by the Scottish media for taking advantage of a free loan. Be so good if they have taken more than us !

All teams in the Premiership last season except for Celtic took advantage of the loan facility, which paid out a combined total of £25.2 million

Be interested if that £5 million other income was in actual fact a loan septic telling porkies ?

"
I would guess it's furlough payments.

British taxpayers propping up an anti-British organisation that has £16m in its bank account.

Can't wait to see SkySports ticker-tape in November announcing which charity is getting their £10k donation so that they feel morally relieved from wearing or contributing to British forces charities.

FBS
 
Ours will just be as bad but agree theirs isn’t reported SMSM like ours will be.

But I am not surprised.

But what we need to do nearly as good as they are doing is player trading and getting good transfer fees.

I agree we neeed to make the most of our own player sales, but at least as it stands we have sellable assets.

Kamara, Morelos, Barasic, Tavernier, Kent, Patterson spring to mind, and that's without ignoring some of our other key players.

After finally shunting off Ajer and Edouard, they don't have any big assets left. I cannot see a single one of their starting 11 from the weeknd going for more than the paid for them.
 
Yeah, had a look on Companies House.

Is that normal?

An agent fee gets invested back into a company that the player himself is a Director of?
Is it normal? This is what I don't know.

There have been some very high profile players over the past few years who have employed family members etc. to be their agents, doing it for themselves so to speak. And perhaps this is how it's done. A middle man company set up as an agency which the player appears to have no control over, other than it being owned by a relative or acquaintance. However, this business then signs contracts with a third company owned by the player (for image rights payments etc). And the money ultimately flows back into the players pockets.

That's what it looks like to me. But as I said I'm no expert. Hopefully others on here with more knowledge will provide better insight.
 
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I would guess it's furlough payments.

British taxpayers propping up an anti-British organisation that has £16m in its bank account.

Can't wait to see SkySports ticker-tape in November announcing which charity is getting their £10k donation so that they feel morally relieved from wearing or contributing to British forces charities.

FBS

I don’t believe they took the Covid loan as it comes with a series of stipulations.
 
They got Tierney money all up front. That is what they reported to stock exchange anyway. Presumably that is the £24.2 million from previous years accounts.
Those letters that are made public to the stock exchange don’t mean jack shit
Read the bottom of said letter
 
Essentially they’re doing reasonably okay financially due to player sales then?

You can tell from general discussion that a lot of Rangers fans are totally against that model, but there’s simply no way around it for us. It’s got to happen and I expect to see sales even as early as January if the money is right.

I’m worried in some cases we have waited too long tbh. Our contract situations with a lot of talent are becoming concerning. I’d have thought we’d have had a ‘big sale’ by now. Win the league this year and it becomes academic tbh but its just a mild concern. We are dreadful at selling players and that mob are very very good at it. I don’t personally believe every figure they claim they get but they do do well selling compared to us who frankly don’t sell anyone ever for decent money.
 
The frimpong transfer is one (of their many) that raises questions.

I done some digging a few months ago and his situation is intriguing to say the least.
  • Appointed a new agent before leaving celtic.
  • A company only incorporated on 22/10/20 just months before his transfer to BL 27/01/21.
  • A company with a client list of one. Himself. [https://www.prolificsportsgroup.co.uk/]
  • A company owned entirely by a dutch national living in England with a single £1 share.
  • He being the sole director. (Would love to see the list of employees) [https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/12969029]
  • Company registered office is a bog standard residential house in Manchester. (Can be looked up on google street view - hilarious).
  • The owner of this 'sports management agency' with one client has one single other directorship in one other company. One set up just months previously to 'his' on 31/05/20. [https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/13428680]
  • That company, JF30 Ltd, is completely owned by none other than his one and only 'client', who holds all of the 100 £1 shares.
  • Jeremie Frimpong and his 'agent' are the only two directors.
So. Man city group sell celtic an asset for £342k on 02/09/2019. Celtic then sell on that asset 16 months later for £9.9m (a 2895% increase), with £3m going to Man city group. Despite said asset not demonstrating anywhere near that kind of value in a relatively poor league. The asset himself very likely paying himself agency fees etc. via a suspicious shell sports agency that looks to have been created especially for this very event. (I'm sure he came up with this all by himself :rolleyes:).

Now, far be it for me and my unqualified eye to suggest any wrong doing or illegality here. However, I think it's an interesting insight into the sort of business dealings going on over there and the type of deals being struck that have prevented them from sustaining some pretty serious financial losses over the past few years.
Great digging mate send it to the police
 
The frimpong transfer is one (of their many) that raises questions.

I done some digging a few months ago and his situation is intriguing to say the least.
  • Appointed a new agent before leaving celtic.
  • A company only incorporated on 22/10/20 just months before his transfer to BL 27/01/21.
  • A company with a client list of one. Himself. [https://www.prolificsportsgroup.co.uk/]
  • A company owned entirely by a dutch national living in England with a single £1 share.
  • He being the sole director. (Would love to see the list of employees) [https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/12969029]
  • Company registered office is a bog standard residential house in Manchester. (Can be looked up on google street view - hilarious).
  • The owner of this 'sports management agency' with one client has one single other directorship in one other company. One set up just months previously to 'his' on 31/05/20. [https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/13428680]
  • That company, JF30 Ltd, is completely owned by none other than his one and only 'client', who holds all of the 100 £1 shares.
  • Jeremie Frimpong and his 'agent' are the only two directors.
So. Man city group sell celtic an asset for £342k on 02/09/2019. Celtic then sell on that asset 16 months later for £9.9m (a 2895% increase), with £3m going to Man city group. Despite said asset not demonstrating anywhere near that kind of value in a relatively poor league. The asset himself very likely paying himself agency fees etc. via a suspicious shell sports agency that looks to have been created especially for this very event. (I'm sure he came up with this all by himself :rolleyes:).

Now, far be it for me and my unqualified eye to suggest any wrong doing or illegality here. However, I think it's an interesting insight into the sort of business dealings going on over there and the type of deals being struck that have prevented them from sustaining some pretty serious financial losses over the past few years.
I'm not smart enough in this kind of thing to know but doesn't the agents do the negotiating? Meaning Frimpong set up his own transfer? Also, would the club/owners gain anything from this?
 
A loan from the Government perhaps?
I know we took up the offer from the Scottish Government as did most other SPFL clubs although it was noted at the time that they didn't appear on the list?

They weren’t entitled to the loan as they pay dividends and director bonuses. The choice was there to stop paying until the loan was paid back, but the directors prioritised taking money out for themselves.
 
Apparently they’re not any better at maths than they are at football B-D

Fecking Timmy loving media hacks pulling transfer fees right out their ring piece as usual.

You do realise that the poster that you are concurring with:

First thing that jumped out at me.

Frimpong £11.5m
Klimala £3.85m
El Hamed £1m


= £9.4m?????

Has only posted half of the story.

IF we are still assuming ( was all over FF last season) that they paid the bones of £9-10m for Barkas & Ajeti ( + £2m for Duffy’s loan fee OR not if that isn’t incorporated in this figure )? How would the headline figure in their accounts confirm the Frimpong fee either way?
 
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and you wonder why ‘Dom’ jumped.

Desmond and Lawwell are just as close to illegality as White, Green and all the rest are.

What a tangled web.
 
Some amount of rubbish in this thread, it’s a wee bit embarrassing at times seeing bears trying to make up shit about their accounts.
Not seen one person intentionally do that.

I would say your post is the most embarrassing so far

Some people have misunderstood accounting practices. Not one person has made anything up.

I'm embarrassed for you by your outburst.
 
Who actually cares what lies they are claiming, fact of the matter is we have the better team with saleable assets and they don’t
 
Teams might be paying them up. They'll only count what they've received upto now but I still believe they've told a few porkies when it comes to what they report to have got for players.
They can't lie to the stockmarket,they can try and put a brave face on it though

In any event all that matters is profit and loss.Both of us losing 14/15 mil is to be expected in the circumstances
 
Genuine question.

What is it that you’re seeing the accounts that is borderline illegal?

Wasn't the accounts I was referring to, more the post outlining the structure behind the transfer to Bayer.

Football is absolutely rife with borderline corruption, DD and Lawwell strike me as the types that wrote the playbook.

DD's whole financial history and the recent extra hot driveway in the south side just add to the mix.
 
I don’t believe they took the Covid loan as it comes with a series of stipulations.
You may well be correct.

However, the Loan recovery scheme and job retention scheme are different.

Based on the company I work for, our accounts were very similar in that our furlough payments were masked as 'Other Income' in the notes.

Granted I'm taking 2+2 and getting whatever number I want, but, when you try to hide things, normal people speculate!

FBS
 
You may well be correct.

However, the Loan recovery scheme and job retention scheme are different.

Based on the company I work for, our accounts were very similar in that our furlough payments were masked as 'Other Income' in the notes.

Granted I'm taking 2+2 and getting whatever number I want, but, when you try to hide things, normal people speculate!

FBS

The mentally challengeds did not take the £1.8m on offer.

We have a credit facility of £3.2m. No idea what we drew down on that.

The rules are;

Senior Management cannot take bonuses whilst the loan is outstanding.

Pay rises cannot be above inflation.
 
You may well be correct.

However, the Loan recovery scheme and job retention scheme are different.

Based on the company I work for, our accounts were very similar in that our furlough payments were masked as 'Other Income' in the notes.

Granted I'm taking 2+2 and getting whatever number I want, but, when you try to hide things, normal people speculate!

FBS

Yes, my company was the same as yours.

It won’t be a loan as that wouldn’t affect profitability.

If it’s not furlough money it could be COVID insurance, but they had nothing in the previous year for COVID Insurance when we did.
 
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