Central Midfield

BahamasBear said:
I agree that Morelos was better (even though he was arguably only good for 6 months too :p)

But the fact that Jack was even in the mix for POTY shows that he’s good enough.
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Player of the year and part of a team that totally self capitulated which to me says, not a lot. With every buy now, we must better than what's there and Jack is certainly no world beater going forward. He's beed decent for us but we need to expand with better quality now
 
fergie1959 said:
Our manager is well aware of the midfield issue. As he was of the striker issue. I am certain it will be addressed. Calm doon.
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I sincerely hope so, because as I said last night - go into the season without any additions and playing that flat three, then we’re absolutely fucked.
 
Detective Vic Mackey said:
I know many will disagree but imo Davis is finished and Jack is over rated and we need better.

In particular Jack offers very little going forward. We need a better box to box player.

No harm to the players as they have been good servants but we need to improve and move forward.
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100% agree , jack is a player of limited ability,who will be found out on the big stage ,does a decent job in the SPL but not got a quick enough footy brain to see the game opening up in front of him,good at breaking up the play ect could he perform a more limited role shielding the back four and allow a more creative player to shine ,dare I say it like lego eater ,who is also adequate in the SPL but found wanting on the euro stage
 
SDF said:
For me, we need two new players in there. Two athletic monsters who can dominate physically and aren't scared to carry the ball up the park and play it forward.

Here's a question. How much do people think we'd get for Ryan Jack this summer ? Because I'd be seriously considering punting him to help fund what's required.
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Someone would pay around £5m. I know from someone friendly to Jack that last season Southampton wanted him for around £6m. I posted about it at the time and was backed up by someone who was ITK, can’t remember what poster though.
 
MearnsUnionist said:
Were you slagging off our midfield when they were dominating Brown and McGregor, Porto, Braga, Feyenoord, Legia etc etc?

Here's a novel idea, why not refrain from making rash judgments in the first week of the season?

Writing Steven Davis off, when he's just started his first competitive game of the season, after an injury doesn't show a great level of football knowledge mate.

Let's cut them a bit of slack until everyone is fully match fit.
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Show me where I slagged any of our midfielders?
 
CaptainCourageous said:
And that's why we need to upgrade.

That doesn't mean Jack is a bad player, we just need better. Especially given he's got a long standing knee issue.
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I think some supporters have an emotional loyalty to Jack, Kamara, Arfield and Davis because, after years of wretched humiliations, they were the first set of midfielders to come in and dominate big matches, not least Celtic and in Europe. That much is evident reading through some of the replies on this thread.

They are all serviceable players, easily good enough to be part of the squad, but it's stone-cold obvious that it's an area we can still improve upon. As you say, Rangers should always be upgrading and in the market for the absolute best. We need to be ruthless.

Doing it in isolated games is one thing, being consistent over the course of the season (as well as performing on the big stage) is another entirely. Go back to last season and look at Gerrard's comments on Aribo after East Fife: "Top players turn up anywhere, it doesn’t matter if it is in front of 50,000, or 1,500, your standards are always the same and from day one Joe has done that." Have we got that from the aforementioned? I'm not so sure.
 
We badly need an athletic box to box midfielder. We also don’t need two very static deep lying midfielders in spl games
 
SDF said:
For me, we need two new players in there. Two athletic monsters who can dominate physically and aren't scared to carry the ball up the park and play it forward.

Here's a question. How much do people think we'd get for Ryan Jack this summer ? Because I'd be seriously considering punting him to help fund what's required.
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I thought Jack was superb in the first few months of last season. I felt he’d really upped his game to a level I hadn’t previously believed he had in him. At that point he was the first name on the team sheet alongside Morelos for me.

Think of the game up at Ross County (and I know, it’s only Ross County), but he gave a complete midfield performance that night and totally bossed the game, dropping deep to pick up the ball then bursting forward topping it off with two excellent goals from distance.

Gerrard also appears to really like him and I think he still has a big part to play this season, but he’s going to need to rediscover that sort of form if he wants to be a guaranteed starter.

If not there can be no room for sentiment.

Personally I’d sell Kamara ahead of him who I think would fetch a higher fee.
 
Plissken said:
There are levels to the game and they are simply a much better football team than us in every department.

The paedos were beaten 3-1 off Copenhagen ffs, we did brilliantly to get as far as we did.
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Hey. No shame in that. After all they are Denmark's 2nd best team... I wonder what titans would have been able to tame the team that finished first in that league by 14 points?!?!
 
MearnsUnionist said:
Tbf lads, they've dominated the mentally challengeds and some top European central midfields over the past year, so I think you're being very harsh.

We saw what Bayern did to Chelsea at Stamford Bridge, they could've scored 8 and it wouldn't have flattered them.

Bayer aren't that far behind Bayern.

Our midfield is miles ahead of anything in Scotland.

McGregor, Brown and Christie haven't got near our midfield in the last 2 games.

Davis wasn't up to speed tonight and it showed, especially against a top drawer midfield.
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I genuinely admire your optimistic outlook mate, but our midfield lacks creativity against team who park the bus. In europe and against the yahoos our midfield are very effective due to the fact that its a more open game, but against a low block we need a Barry Ferguson type to add urgency/bit/craft into our play. Imo.
 
I like Ryan Jack but he is miles off the player he was Sept/Oct when he was playing at the top of his game and scoring goals, something not right there as he is nowhere near 100%
 
CaptainCourageous said:
And that's why we need to upgrade.

That doesn't mean Jack is a bad player, we just need better. Especially given he's got a long standing knee issue.
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We need a midfielder that's head and shoulders above every one of our midfielders as currently there's not much between then all. It doesn't mean there poor that's just part of the cycle of a squad in football. We've upgraded our attacking options and I think we still might bring one more in. Our defence is solid and our midfield is now the week point that needs addressed. Once we've done that then next season well have to look at other positions it's how it should work.
 
gerz1873 said:
I genuinely admire your optimistic outlook mate, but our midfield lacks creativity against team who park the bus. In europe and against the yahoos our midfield are very effective due to the fact that its a more open game, but against a low block we need a Barry Ferguson type to add urgency/bit/craft into our play. Imo.
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That's pretty much what I've said mate.

We need a more dynamic central midfielder for certain games, particularly against deep lying defensive teams.

My issue was with posters who were making out that our current central midfielders weren't good enough.

As you've pointed out, they're good enough to dominate the mentally challengeds and top European sides, when it's a more open game.

Horses for courses.
 
Jack and Davis have reached their glass ceiling, time to move on and push the at up a notch. It's the same for 50% of our squad tbh.
 
I think as long as Gerrard is the manager Ryan Jack will be one of the first names on the team sheet. Personally I'd play Arfield beside him just now as he has proven he can score goals from there. The problem Gerrard has is where do you fit in Hagi, Kent, Aribo and Roofe into the 3 positions behind the striker? I'm guessing there will be a bit of rotation around those positions from game to game and I suspect Itten will become our main striker.
 
Forza_Napoli said:
We need a midfielder that's head and shoulders above every one of our midfielders as currently there's not much between then all. It doesn't mean there poor that's just part of the cycle of a squad in football. We've upgraded our attacking options and I think we still might bring one more in. Our defence is solid and our midfield is now the week point that needs addressed. Once we've done that then next season well have to look at other positions it's how it should work.
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None of them are poor players. But when you look at Jack/Davis/Kamara's game they're identical - neat, tidy, wee passes here and there...there's no dynamism, no oomph, no running beyond strikers, no carrying the ball 20/30 yards to get us up the pitch.

Jack has shown he can do it in flashes last season but right now he's reverting to picking the ball up from the back four and simply playing the shortest and safest pass every time.

Forgetting the technical aspect of the game for a second, I thought on Thursday that for a guy in his prime I felt he looked at least a yard off the pace against Leverkusen. In terms of fitness, he didn't get near the Leverkusen midfield.
 
SDF said:
None of them are poor players. But when you look at Jack/Davis/Kamara's game they're identical - neat, tidy, wee passes here and there...there's no dynamism, no oomph, no running beyond strikers, no carrying the ball 20/30 yards to get us up the pitch.

Jack has shown he can do it in flashes last season but right now he's reverting to picking the ball up from the back four and simply playing the shortest and safest pass every time.

Forgetting the technical aspect of the game for a second, I thought on Thursday that for a guy in his prime I felt he looked at least a yard off the pace against Leverkusen. In terms of fitness, he didn't get near the Leverkusen midfield.
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Something didn't look right with Jack on Thursday.

He looked a bit fatigued I thought.

He certainly didn't seem 100%.
 
MearnsUnionist said:
Something didn't look right with Jack on Thursday.

He looked a bit fatigued I thought.

He certainly didn't seem 100%.
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I though they would of done a tidy up on his knee when we went into lock down. I think it's going to be a constant issue with him going forward. I dont think he can play 3 times in the space of a week either anymore.
 
SDF said:
I don't think he's looked right since Parkhead in December. I think the knee problem just isn't going to go away

He's certainly not the same player as last season.
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SuperGers07 said:
He’s been off it for a long time, as were most. But it’s shown so far this season that he’s toiling and on the periphery of games
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I agree he didn't look the same player after the winter break, but who did?

I thought he'd been decent enough this season up until Thursday night.
He clearly didn't look right and looked like he was carrying something, or didn't feel 100%.

Kamara and Arfield for me in the engine room tomorrow.
 
MearnsUnionist said:
That's pretty much what I've said mate.

We need a more dynamic central midfielder for certain games, particularly against deep lying defensive teams.

My issue was with posters who were making out that our current central midfielders weren't good enough.

As you've pointed out, they're good enough to dominate the mentally challengeds and top European sides, when it's a more open game.

Horses for courses.
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Fair enough mate, hopefully we can a more dynamic midfielder in soon, to help us finally get back where we belong
 
MearnsUnionist said:
I agree he didn't look the same player after the winter break, but who did?

I thought he'd been decent enough this season up until Thursday night.
He clearly didn't look right and looked like he was carrying something, or didn't feel 100%.

Kamara and Arfield for me in the engine room tomorrow.
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He was also up against class opposition in 30 degree heat on Thursday.
 
MearnsUnionist said:
Something didn't look right with Jack on Thursday.

He looked a bit fatigued I thought.

He certainly didn't seem 100%.
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I noticed that. He looked frustrated and lacking in confidence. He rarely wastes passes and tries to pass forward but struggled on Thursday.

Hopefully just a combination of the heat and not being fully fit.
 
Albertz_Was_King said:
The weakest part of our team.

Also the biggest difference between us and our competitors domestically.

The engine room is so important and I think Aribo is the only one who is of the quality required to take us to the next level.

The lack of passing ability, control, speed and strength in Jack, Kamara, Davis and Arfield is worrying. Always a side ball or playing backwards, rarely do they offer anything different to one another.
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Barbarossa said:
The game passed Davis by.

We are also weak at RB. It’s the elephant in the room. Tav is nowhere near good enough. How many goals in big games will he cost us?
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Morelos's laziness cost us that goal the other night no one else!

We tried something off the training ground the other night in the lead up to their goal that broke down due to Morelos not being interested.

Keeper to left footed CH onto LB up the line to LW who spun off looking for the return ball but Alfie was not at it.

Last season Morelos worked every defender on the pitch, whichever side our play was materialising in he was there as an out ball forward pass always there being a constant threat and basic pest of Fu©k to defenders, seems he's spat the dummy out now and that's it.
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This based against a level of midfielder that we will NEVER be able to compete with again.
Gone are the days of competing with Europe’s elite, people need to get their heads out of their backsides and get real.

Noone was whining about the CM when we absolutely dominated Celtic in the OF in terms of possession, energy and drive. Now they arent good enough because Havertz and co ran all over them?
That Leverkusen team are as efficient a team as I have saw us play in a long time - far better than any we came up against in Europe (even the Uefa cup final run).
Reality check was needed, and this was it. I have zero issue playing 2/3 of Jack Kamara and Davis in the same team - provided the 4 in front and the 2 wing backs have the license required to go forward.
Their job is to make things tick over, win and recycle the ball and give it to the more talented players - thats the basis of most teams that utilise a 4231 - and for the most part it works, until you make that step up beyond your capabilities - which we did.
 
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BahamasBear said:
Jack was voted our player of the season last year. To suggest he isn’t good enough is mental. Obviously tonight wasn’t his best game but I definitely do think he is good enough going forward.
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Mate, this place is mental. They were all Erect when Kamara, Jack and Davis ran the midfield almost every game vs Sceptic last year and the year prior - but now because Havertz and co ran a riot - they arent good enough.
 
We need a defensive midfielder who controls the pace of the game. A guy that takes the ball off of the defenders and can see forward passes before anyone else can, and can execute that pass. Whether that’s starting a counter attack, opening the game up to the other side of the pitch or threading the ball through a packed defence when the opposition switch off. None of our current defensive midfielders can do this and it’s pretty vital to the way we play and the teams we come up against. Unless we are counter attacking our centre mids are not very good at the above, for a variety of reasons.

Would also like a powerful/ physical player who overs the ground and is strong in the tackle and intimidate the opposition.

Central midfield is the heartbeat of the team and for me the likes of Jack and Kamara are decent players, but they are not going to win us the league. They but need help.
 
Really don’t understand this thread.

Jack is the best all round midfielder in Scotland, and Kamara is the most technically gifted midfielder. We’d need to spent £10m + to upgrade on them. Not going to happen. We also have Hagi who should play in there most of the time.

Davis may be on his last legs and I don’t particularly rate Arfield but neither are regulars.

In Scotland we simply need to give Kamara the freedom to get forward and support Hagi. There’s no need for two DMs. But we do not need to bring in another central player.
 
KensingtonBlue said:
Really don’t understand this thread.

Jack is the best all round midfielder in Scotland, and Kamara is the most technically gifted midfielder. We’d need to spent £10m + to upgrade on them. Not going to happen. We also have Hagi who should play in there most of the time.

Davis may be on his last legs and I don’t particularly rate Arfield but neither are regulars.

In Scotland we simply need to give Kamara the freedom to get forward and support Hagi. There’s no need for two DMs. But we do not need to bring in another central player.
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We've just bought two proven goalscorers for £6m combined to replace Morelos.

I'm not sure we'd need anywhere near £10m+ to upgrade on them.
 
KensingtonBlue said:
Really don’t understand this thread.

Jack is the best all round midfielder in Scotland, and Kamara is the most technically gifted midfielder. We’d need to spent £10m + to upgrade on them. Not going to happen. We also have Hagi who should play in there most of the time.

Davis may be on his last legs and I don’t particularly rate Arfield but neither are regulars.

In Scotland we simply need to give Kamara the freedom to get forward and support Hagi. There’s no need for two DMs. But we do not need to bring in another central player.
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If that midfield is so good why have we collapsed two seasons running?

winning an odd game against Celtic isn’t good enough, it’s churning out wins after wins every week.
Our midfield is slow, ponderous and has no creativity. The only player who isn’t like that is Aribo.
 
KensingtonBlue said:
Really don’t understand this thread.

Jack is the best all round midfielder in Scotland, and Kamara is the most technically gifted midfielder. We’d need to spent £10m + to upgrade on them. Not going to happen. We also have Hagi who should play in there most of the time.

Davis may be on his last legs and I don’t particularly rate Arfield but neither are regulars.

In Scotland we simply need to give Kamara the freedom to get forward and support Hagi. There’s no need for two DMs. But we do not need to bring in another central player.
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They aren’t mate. Two good players but Jack isn’t the best all round nor is Kamara the most technically gifted. Unfortunately it is two of the beggars players who are the most well rounded and technically gifted.
 
Jack and Kamara are decent ball winners but both want too much time on the ball and slow the game down we need more box to box players who can beat a man and play defence slitting passes.
 
TheBlueBlazerV3 said:
This based against a level of midfielder that we will NEVER be able to compete with again.
Gone are the days of competing with Europe’s elite, people need to get their heads out of their backsides and get real.

Noone was whining about the CM when we absolutely dominated Celtic in the OF in terms of possession, energy and drive. Now they arent good enough because Havertz and co ran all over them?
That Leverkusen team are as efficient a team as I have saw us play in a long time - far better than any we came up against in Europe (even the Uefa cup final run).
Reality check was needed, and this was it. I have zero issue playing 2/3 of Jack Kamara and Davis in the same team - provided the 4 in front and the 2 wing backs have the license required to go forward.
Their job is to make things tick over, win and recycle the ball and give it to the more talented players - thats the basis of most teams that utilise a 4231 - and for the most part it works, until you make that step up beyond your capabilities - which we did.
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None of what you've just posted should stop us wanting and looking for 1 maybe two players who are some what much better than Jack Kamara and Davis
 
Midfield should be Jack, Aribo and a new player.

Davis unfortunately is passed it. He will probably still do a job in some league and cup games but it's a season too far for me.

Kamara slows the game down too much.

Arfield tries 100% but isn't good enough for that role.
 
why not just go back to the old fashioned way of football. 2 full backs that can defend well and 2 wingers lol. No need for this defensive midfielder an absolute farce of a position. We play against 11 men behind the ball at home and we have a defensive midfielder.
 
If you are playing a technically superior team you play a different game. The master at this was Smith.

Park the bus, and look to nick a goal in a rare burst forward. The worst thing to do is go toe toe toe in a 4-3-3 when these teams can pass round you without any problems and expose your weaknesses.
 
davmcc said:
'So far this season'

We've played 2 competitive games ffs.
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I’m including the other matches, he’s been plodding around looking busy without doing anything really. I remember the last player we had who done that fresh in the mind
 
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