City vs Spurs

Just like speed camera will only be in accident blackspots and removed once there are no accidents for x months
Yeah we all believed that! Now we know it was money making exercise all along and a chance for plod to look great in the solved crime stats
 
Ok, let's say VAR got this decision right and the goal should be chalked off.
As Guardiola pointed out, what about his player being manhandled to the ground in the box...does VAR not alert the referee that that was a deliberate foul in the box and should be a penalty?
He's got a perfectly valid point!
We're heading to a situation where games will be refereed by a team of geeks sitting behind computer screens in an unknown location somewhere in la la land!
 
The ball grazed the City arm, however it was close to coming off the Spurs arm.
If it had come off the defenders arm onto the attackers arm, it would not be a penalty but the subsequent goal disallowed. Is that what some people are suggesting.

Sorry what?

Are you saying if had hit a Spurs arm by accident the goal would be disallowed as well? What would be given instead?
 
Sorry what?

Are you saying if had hit a Spurs arm by accident the goal would be disallowed as well? What would be given instead?

If it came off the Spurs arm onto the City arm, Jesus scores thereafter. The goal is disallowed but no penalty awarded.
 
Sorry what?

Are you saying if had hit a Spurs arm by accident the goal would be disallowed as well? What would be given instead?
He's saying if it hit the defenders arm then hit the attackers arm and the goal followed then the 1st handball wouldn't be a penalty but the 2nd handball would still mean the goal is disallowed.
 
I think he's saying if it grazed the Spurs players arm would it have been a penalty?
According to the sticklers for the rules on here it would have been...but would it?
No chance!
Therein lies the problem!
 
I honestly don’t know what to make of VAR, I’m right in the middle. On one hand I feel like you can’t really argue with it when it ultimately leads to the ref making the right call, on the other hand I do feel like it sucks a lot of joy out of the game by denying last minute winners after a 5 minute inspection.

Because of incidents like this you can see last minute winners eventually being met with diluted joy as fans worry about whether or not the goal will be allowed to stand, I don’t necessarily think that’s a good thing.
 
I honestly don’t know what to make of VAR, I’m right in the middle. On one hand I feel like you can’t really argue with it when it ultimately leads to the ref making the right call, on the other hand I do feel like it sucks a lot of joy out of the game by denying last minute winners after a 5 minute inspection.

Because of incidents like this you can see last minute winners eventually being met with diluted joy as fans worry about whether or not the goal will be allowed to stand, I don’t necessarily think that’s a good thing.

There’s less injustice in the game with VAR and that has to be welcomed.
 
There’s less injustice in the game with VAR and that has to be welcomed.

I completely agree, but football is also about entertainment and passion and I can see some of that dissipating as fans become more reluctant to go mental until the refs had the okay from the VAR etc.
 
VAR is shite and so is the new handball rule.

I was watching the game with 4 other people and none of us seen anything wrong with the goal, the 2 commentators didn’t see anything wrong with it either and none of the Spurs players even claimed for a handball.

VAR is going to kill the game for the fans that actually attend the matches but it’ll give the armchair fans some entertainment.
 
I honestly don’t know what to make of VAR, I’m right in the middle. On one hand I feel like you can’t really argue with it when it ultimately leads to the ref making the right call, on the other hand I do feel like it sucks a lot of joy out of the game by denying last minute winners after a 5 minute inspection.

Because of incidents like this you can see last minute winners eventually being met with diluted joy as fans worry about whether or not the goal will be allowed to stand, I don’t necessarily think that’s a good thing.

Yup, the x factor in fans enjoyment of football is the ecstasy when goals are scored, the unbridled passion of the game is what makes football what it is. Something is certainly lost with such deliberations. A linesman deliberating with a referee happened in, say, 1 game in 10. Var is turning it into a multiple event in games.
 
VAR is shite and so is the new handball rule.

I was watching the game with 4 other people and none of us seen anything wrong with the goal, the 2 commentators didn’t see anything wrong with it either and none of the Spurs players even claimed for a handball.

VAR is going to kill the game for the fans that actually attend the matches but it’ll give the armchair fans some entertainment.
100% mate
 
I honestly don’t know what to make of VAR, I’m right in the middle. On one hand I feel like you can’t really argue with it when it ultimately leads to the ref making the right call, on the other hand I do feel like it sucks a lot of joy out of the game by denying last minute winners after a 5 minute inspection.

Because of incidents like this you can see last minute winners eventually being met with diluted joy as fans worry about whether or not the goal will be allowed to stand, I don’t necessarily think that’s a good thing.
They won the title last season after a despicable decision by a Mancunian ref, not to send off Kompany for a last man assault. Under VAR. he would have walked.

It’s about getting the right decision at the end of the day but surprise, surprise Guardiola is whingeing like a wee lassie when after being handed every advantage going and his plastic side, breaking every rule in the book, a correct decision goes against him. Pathetic.
 
It is mad. You'll get defenders running about with arms pinned to their sides but if a cross flicks off the edge of an arm it's a penalty?

That's the new rule we have for attackers and look at the reaction after its happened a couple of times.

Yes. It's now far too open to interpretation.
 
Ok, let's say VAR got this decision right and the goal should be chalked off.
As Guardiola pointed out, what about his player being manhandled to the ground in the box...does VAR not alert the referee that that was a deliberate foul in the box and should be a penalty?
He's got a perfectly valid point!
We're heading to a situation where games will be refereed by a team of geeks sitting behind computer screens in an unknown location somewhere in la la land!

The VAR panel are focusing on which incidents to review and decisions to overturn. That leaves it open to accusations, as we saw with Messi in Copa America.

Goal-line technology is great because it's a definitive answer and is quickly made. Maybe it's not VAR but its implementation that is the problem.
 
Its a handball end of.

Fck City and Utd and all their like.

Reason Football today is ruined by their Greed.

I can guarantee Rangers fans would be going mental if such a call was given against us in such circumstances. We would not be saying nice one VAR.
Albeit it’s the rule.
 
I think he's saying if it grazed the Spurs players arm would it have been a penalty?
According to the sticklers for the rules on here it would have been...but would it?
No chance!
Therein lies the problem!
The new rules gives defenders a defined natural silhouette to be within for handball. There's no way leaning slightly forward when heading the ball with arms by your side is outside of natural movement so it wouldn't be a penalty.

Unfortunately for attackers they don't have leeway anymore if the ball ends up under control or in the net.
 
I'm saying that's the way football has always been, some you win some you lose.

Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I just dont like this celebrating like %^*& for over a minute only for a goal to be ruled out.

Mistakes from refs are part of the game, just like mistakes from players.

Each to their own but thankfully it probably won't come up here due to lack of money.

I broadly agree but VAR is coming here , most probably next season .

It’s cheaper than goal line technology, and not as expensive as you’d think . Countries like the Moldovan league have it in place already .
 
Ultimately VAR got it right with the rule changes in the EPL. "Anything that makes the body bigger must be penalized" and the ball clearly hit his arm. We cant moan about wanting technology to improve refereeing then complain when we get a decision we dont like. I agree its a tough one for City to take but with the changes the FA have made the officials got it right.

It still looks to me like it'll be a tight race between City & Liverpool and id give City a slight edge as they seem a more rounded side. However having blinked first though they are now the ones playing catch up so it could well be the scousers year.
 
I broadly agree but VAR is coming here , most probably next season .

It’s cheaper than goal line technology, and not as expensive as you’d think . Countries like the Moldovan league have it in place already .
I hope you're wrong MDB, I hate it.
 
So how far back does this new rule go that if it hits an arm in the "build up" to a goal its disallowed? A few seconds? 30 seconds? A minute? Last time the ball went out of play?
 
So how far back does this new rule go that if it hits an arm in the "build up" to a goal its disallowed? A few seconds? 30 seconds? A minute? Last time the ball went out of play?

When the game enters a new phase of play.
Watched a ref talk about and yes it could go back over a minute.
Was the City players arm in an unnatural position?
 
They won the title last season after a despicable decision by a Mancunian ref, not to send off Kompany for a last man assault. Under VAR. he would have walked.

It’s about getting the right decision at the end of the day but surprise, surprise Guardiola is whingeing like a wee lassie when after being handed every advantage going and his plastic side, breaking every rule in the book, a correct decision goes against him. Pathetic.

So basically he’s like you whenever Liverpool drop points or City win?

They won the title last year because they were the best side in the league, might be time to get over it. I’ve never seen that level of fanboyism on a forum for another team.
 
The rules have been changed to suit VAR. The new rule is against the spirit of the game, both the Wolves goal and the City goal were perfectly good goals.

We are chopping off goals, look at the celebrations today, that will be a thing of the past once VAR is the norm, fans will be waiting on the VAR decision before celebrating.

This will be the death of football as we know it.
 
It’s taking the emotion out of football and it’s completely ruining it, it will get to the stage where fans won’t celebrate a goal until they know it’s legitimate, by then the moment will be long gone.

Exactly

Players will stand waiting for the decision to be verified, shake hands and walk back to their own half. No wheeling away in celebration.
Fans will be in stand clapping like they are at the cricket.
It kills the magic
 
The decision is correct , but let’s be honest football is now cricket and tennis where we can’t celebrate anything till the checks have been done. Takes away that feeling of last minute winners where we go potty, end up 10 rows in front of our seat , now we all give a gentle applause , look at a screen and then either celebrate or bemoan the robots in a studio far far away
 
An absolute joke of a rule. That's been a goal for 150 years. Folk will turn away from the game if this continues.
 
There’s less injustice in the game with VAR and that has to be welcomed.

I want to agree but why were City not awarded a penalty for the foul in the first half. It was very clear in real time and absolutely clear on the replay? So there wasn’t justice.
 
Ultimately VAR got it right with the rule changes in the EPL. "Anything that makes the body bigger must be penalized" and the ball clearly hit his arm. We cant moan about wanting technology to improve refereeing then complain when we get a decision we dont like. I agree its a tough one for City to take but with the changes the FA have made the officials got it right.

It still looks to me like it'll be a tight race between City & Liverpool and id give City a slight edge as they seem a more rounded side. However having blinked first though they are now the ones playing catch up so it could well be the scousers year.
What absolute tosh, so the rules for 150 years are discarded for a stupid rule that was only brought in for VAR. It’s a joke!
 
I want to agree but why were City not awarded a penalty for the foul in the first half. It was very clear in real time and absolutely clear on the replay? So there wasn’t justice.

I agree with that.

The technology is great but there is certainly inconsistency with when it is used. I am confident this will be sorted out in time.
 
The penalty shout in the 1st half is where VAR falls down. That decision is still just based on someone's opinion.

It doesn't eliminate all injustices but it does at least give a referee a second chance to review the incident.

If he's incompetent, he's incompetent. He's going to make the wrong decision with or without VAR. But at least with VAR a decent ref will be able to come to the correct decision.
 
It doesn’t matter if it’s accidental if a goal is scored,

This post seems to have bypassed quite a few on this thread.

The rules were changed this season to specifically ensure that a goal can’t be scored by a handball, even accidental.

I’m not at all convinced about VAR but them’s the current rules and they applied them tonight.
 
It doesn't eliminate all injustices but it does at least give a referee a second chance to review the incident.

If he's incompetent, he's incompetent. He's going to make the wrong decision with or without VAR. But at least with VAR a decent ref will be able to come to the correct decision.
Only if VAR says he should look at it again. A ref sat in a room watched that replay and said it wasn't worth Oliver taking a look at.

That's where VAR fails, it's someone else's opinion and if that persons incompetent then it's no help to the ref whatsoever. How do you ensure the VAR refers the right incidents to the ref? How on earth can someone watch that in the 1st half and say it isn't a foul?
 
They won the title last season after a despicable decision by a Mancunian ref, not to send off Kompany for a last man assault. Under VAR. he would have walked.

It’s about getting the right decision at the end of the day but surprise, surprise Guardiola is whingeing like a wee lassie when after being handed every advantage going and his plastic side, breaking every rule in the book, a correct decision goes against him. Pathetic.
What's your assement on the var decision the other night,when the goalkeeper had both feet of the line when the ball was struck?
Retake penalty or blatant cheating by UEFA and the referee in favour of the Scousers.
Var was used on quite a few occasions in the Champions league last season and both the mens and ladies world cups,when keepers cheated by moving of the line.
Why was it not enforced the other night and where Chelsea cheated out of a cup? Or does Var only suit you when it goes against certain clubs, after all your always accusing every other club of cheating but not when it works in favour of the Scousers.
 
this is Law 12:

HANDLING THE BALL

It is an offence if a player:
  • deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, including moving the hand/arm towards the ball
  • gains possession/control of the ball after it has touched their hand/arm and then:
    • scores in the opponents’ goal
    • creates a goal-scoring opportunity
  • scores in the opponents’ goal directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental, including by the goalkeeper
It is usually an offence if a player:

  • touches the ball with their hand/arm when:
    • the hand/arm has made their body unnaturally bigger
    • the hand/arm is above/beyond their shoulder level (unless the player deliberately plays the ball which then touches their hand/arm)
The above offences apply even if the ball touches a player’s hand/arm directly from the head or body (including the foot) of another player who is close.

Except for the above offences, it is not usually an offence if the ball touches a player’s hand/arm:

  • directly from the player’s own head or body (including the foot)
  • directly from the head or body (including the foot) of another player who is close
  • if the hand/arm is close to the body and does not make the body unnaturally bigger
  • when a player falls and the hand/arm is between the body and the ground to support the body, but not extended laterally or vertically away from the body
The goalkeeper has the same restrictions on handling the ball as any other player outside the penalty area. If the goalkeeper handles the ball inside their
penalty area when not permitted to do so, an indirect free kick is awarded but there is no disciplinary sanction.

for those thats dont know it

I think VAR has its uses but VAR wasn't the issue today - it's this new guidance for handball. It's an absolutely stinking change to the rules.
 
An absolute joke of a rule. That's been a goal for 150 years. Folk will turn away from the game if this continues.
I've already gone mate. Seriously, Rangers games and that's it.

I no longer recognise the game I used to love.
 
VAR is shite and so is the new handball rule.

I was watching the game with 4 other people and none of us seen anything wrong with the goal, the 2 commentators didn’t see anything wrong with it either and none of the Spurs players even claimed for a handball.

VAR is going to kill the game for the fans that actually attend the matches but it’ll give the armchair fans some entertainment.
Not sure what it matters, if no one saw it.
 
VAR is shite and so is the new handball rule.

I was watching the game with 4 other people and none of us seen anything wrong with the goal, the 2 commentators didn’t see anything wrong with it either and none of the Spurs players even claimed for a handball.

VAR is going to kill the game for the fans that actually attend the matches but it’ll give the armchair fans some entertainment.

I prefer the new handball rule to previous, which was down to the referees digression. If it hits your hand it should be a foul, as it is football not handball.
 
Only if VAR says he should look at it again. A ref sat in a room watched that replay and said it wasn't worth Oliver taking a look at.

That's where VAR fails, it's someone else's opinion and if that persons incompetent then it's no help to the ref whatsoever. How do you ensure the VAR refers the right incidents to the ref? How on earth can someone watch that in the 1st half and say it isn't a foul?

I suppose one way around it would be to do something similar to tennis, whereby each player (or, in football's case, manager) could have a set amount of 'challenges' per match.

Challenges could be used for instances where the manager feels their side have been on the wrong end of a decision but the referee has missed it and allowed play to continue.

For example, a manager feels his player has been fouled in the opposition box, but the referee doesn't blow for a penalty. The manager could inform the fourth official he wants to use a challenge. This would oblige the referee to pause the game to review VAR of the incident.

Honest mistakes can happen. Perhaps the referee was standing at an angle which made him believe the defender had won the ball fairly, hence why he allowed play to continue. Then VAR shows it from another angle and it is clear to see that the defender brought the attacker down and made no contact with the ball. Clearly, a penalty should then be awarded.

If the referee is incompetent and still decides on no penalty, then that's his call and he can take the inevitable flak. But most of the time the correct decision will be made with the help of VAR.

You would have to limit the amount of 'challenges' per side otherwise managers will take the piss and end up challenging everything. In tennis, I understand a player is allowed three challenges per set. If a player challenges the umpire's decision and is proved correct to do so, he retains all three challenges. If he is wrong, he loses a challenge and only has two left. You could apply the same principle to football - three challenges per manager per match, with perhaps an extra challenge awarded in the event of extra time.

Whether we like it or not I think VAR is here to stay, and so it should. Imagine, for example, that they had VAR at the 1986 World Cup. Maradona's "Hand of God" wouldn't have stood. In 2010, Lampard's goal against Germany wouldn't have been ruled out. Those are just two off the top of my head.
 
Not saw the incident but hate the controversy it’s causing . Get VAR to %^*& let the refs do their job
 
It's quite unbelievable how thick people are in not being able to understand this.

It's not VAR which is an issue here. The new interpretation of the handball rule is the issue.

Without VAR, the ref would have been right to chop that off anyway.

But without VAR nobody would have noticed. Shit rule and a system that will stifle the game.
 
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