Club 1872 Director's Resignation

ibroxbound

Well-Known Member
You as thick of the rest on the other fans forum? and as usual hiding behind a key board.
I will explain my actions and you can get your carer to explain to you

I was brought up in an era that had decent standards where no one made fun of anyone with disabilities, especially a child.
These 'people ' mocked a young kid and I and I'm sure thousands of others with a Presbyterian upbringing was disgusted with their behaviour and not only putting it on a public platform but the admins of that forum leaving it up. I believe if these morons wanted to voice their opinion to the world, let them have the guts to put their own name to it and not let The Rangers Family be besmirched by them.
Now and I'm sure your carer will explain this nice and slow to you, what if these clowns worked with or came into contact with kids ? Your kids, would you be happy with that ?

RF members overwhelming voted for the merger, so away back to your forum that prides itself on everyone is allowed an opinon on anything unless his name is Marshall
Your first paragraph nullifies the idea that you have decent standards.
Snide remarks like that do you no favours.
 

George Goudie

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
Yes @Greg Marshall mate aware of that. Part of @Papasmurf action plan was to have a mass leaflet drop to add weight to the numbers surveyed.

This was initially sanctioned by SR however lately he wasn't to supportive of it.

Papasmurf has patiently been waiting for the promised further discussion however this has as yet not happened, obviously there are distractions at the moment :) and he gets that.

Assuming you have followed the debate on line, then I susoect that you and I both know (and C1872) that regardless of the volume of Bears surveyed on the matter, that the proportion of supporters in favour of the action plan is pretty significant.

SR confirmed that the Board were considering putting out a marketing survey and it wasn't known whether that action plan would form part of it.

Hopefully it will - especially when you consider the strength of support that has already been shown to favour change.
 

Robert Marshall

Well-Known Member
Still no need for the snide remarks.Hard at times ,i know but you are no shrinking violet,that's for sure.:D
I would be quite happy to sit down and have a discussion with any Rangers fan, as you say, I am not a shrinking violet:rolleyes: but it is all the lies and nonsense I can't be bothered with.
It was once said of me by a person I have known all my adult life that
' if you don't know Robert, he is very easy to dislike, but when you actually get to know him, it's hard not to like him.'
I'll settle for that
 

Robert Marshall

Well-Known Member
Your first paragraph nullifies the idea that you have decent standards.
Snide remarks like that do you no favours.
You are right and I have amended my post, my apologies to anyone offended by the terms I used.
Would still be happy to sit down and talk to any Rangers fan
 

Greg Marshall

Well-Known Member
Yes @Greg Marshall mate aware of that. Part of @Papasmurf action plan was to have a mass leaflet drop to add weight to the numbers surveyed.

This was initially sanctioned by SR however lately he wasn't to supportive of it.

Papasmurf has patiently been waiting for the promised further discussion however this has as yet not happened, obviously there are distractions at the moment :) and he gets that.

Assuming you have followed the debate on line, then I susoect that you and I both know (and C1872) that regardless of the volume of Bears surveyed on the matter, that the proportion of supporters in favour of the action plan is pretty significant.

SR confirmed that the Board were considering putting out a marketing survey and it wasn't known whether that action plan would form part of it.

Hopefully it will - especially when you consider the strength of support that has already been shown to favour change.
Hi. GG,

I’m well aware of discussions between Stewart and PS. Leaflet drops would need to be approved at a pre-ops (today is the final one for a match at Ibrox this season) on the club footprint but outwith there is no issues.

To be fair GG, I’m sure PS can lay out the time line of emails to responses and I believe they had a conversation not long ago (possibly last home game). I myself have received little contact in regard to the movement from PS and as I stated I was informed I would be contacted with the results of the survey as I was keen to see the results. I praised PS when I met him for following the correct procedure after the initial confusion with having to pay for the results for the survey but we have to ensure that the correct procedure is followed through.

I think it’s vital that fans have a voice and use the routes available for discussion with the club - and there are many.

The important thing imo is to not do they club v the fans angle as in my experience it’s a fallacy. The both parties are inextricably linked and rely on each other - the club’s success is the supporters and that is what we are striving toward
 

SmileyBear

Well-Known Member
I think it is a vanity project, fans get turned off, IMO, with the constant statements, If you want to make them,do it when it has an effect.
The RST for years were basically a pressure group and I know they had a couple of as they seen it successes,but in reality, nothing changed.
It.s only my opinion but let'ss concentrate on moving towards getting as many shares as possible because nothing wins an argument better than power.
Till the shares get diluted I guess.
I prefer the RST model as it's more about holding boards to account and not buying into everything they say.
 

mdingwall

Administrator
And we wonder why each incarnation of a Rangers fans group goes tits up time and time again !! :D
They don't.

Despite the hysteria most punters don't know and don't care about who said what when - they regard comings and goings like they do when they hear of splits and arguments in churches, political parties, lodges, the Women's Guild, etc.
 

BrunoBear

Well-Known Member
I'm more concerned with your attempts to find out Bears addresses.

Anyway, your boy got the gig not just through merit (I hear he interviewed not too bad), but because of his involvement in weasling the board in to C1872 - as you already know.
 

MoodyBlue1872

Well-Known Member
They don't.

Despite the hysteria most punters don't know and don't care about who said what when - they regard comings and goings like they do when they hear of splits and arguments in churches, political parties, lodges, the Women's Guild, etc.
Possibly. But ask many punters why they've not signed up to Club1872 and it's not uncommon to hear things like "ach, no - these guys are always chopping and changing and there's always internal arguments and fall outs etc. I cannae be bothered wae that pish".

You can deny it if you want - and that could be part of the problem - but that is a common perception. And surely you can see why this is a significant part of the reason for low numbers in such a large fanbase ?
 

bluestreak

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
Leave it out Bears.

Not a thread for personal sniping.

@bluestreak , I think C1872 SHOULD be involved in supporter initiatives most definitely.

That is why I joined.

The directorship don't get to pick and choose which projects they get behind or not (regardless of their personal preferences) it's the membership that decide that.

Two massively supported initiatives are Safe Standing and BROOMIE4BEARS.

The 1st has been balloted, the 2nd has not. They should survey their membership for the Broomie for Bears most definitely.

Then pressurise the Board to consider it.

Just my opinion.
Fine GG but when we are a fully fledged fans group with 25%+1 this overrides all, I have horrible dreams that new investment will wipe out our %holding.
 

mdingwall

Administrator
Possibly. But ask many punters why they've not signed up to Club1872 and it's not uncommon to hear things like "ach, no - these guys are always chopping and changing and there's always internal arguments and fall outs etc. I cannae be bothered wae that pish".

You can deny it if you want - and that could be part of the problem - but that is a common perception. And surely you can see why this is a significant part of the reason for low numbers in such a large fanbase ?
I don't think outside of a handful of forums it has much effect on the support in general or the membership of the organisation - or in the past organisations.

I actually think in the circumstances the numbers have held up well - people only join groups during moments of crisis - as soon as things calm down recruitment grinds to a halt.
 

George Goudie

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
Fine GG but when we are a fully fledged fans group with 25%+1 this overrides all, I have horrible dreams that new investment will wipe out our %holding.
Yes. That's what DK is expecting as well.

I'm sure the directors have battled hard on this issue.... just how do we increase membership when, as GS says.... we aren't under immediate threat?
 

MoodyBlue1872

Well-Known Member
I don't think outside of a handful of forums it has much effect on the support in general or the membership of the organisation - or in the past organisations.

I actually think in the circumstances the numbers have held up well - people only join groups during moments of crisis - as soon as things calm down recruitment grinds to a halt.
Fair points mate. All I can say from my point of view is that many people I speak with just have little interest in getting involved, mainly due to what is perceived as regular problems and issues which seem to have been around over a long period of time. I think faith in this kind of set up working effectively and reaching genuine objectives is relatively low.
 

Barryhopez

Well-Known Member
@Robert Marshall I noted you mentioned the issue of a boardroom representative of the fans in your opinion being an amateur?

Surely the remit of a fans representative on the board is to ensure that all Rangers supporters are represented and issues raised are managed appropriately. The overall drive of the club at that level will come from the team of Directors etc. but it’s important to have a clear channel for ‘minuted’ transparency to the stakeholders (i.e. the fans) and to give the opportunity to influence the agenda for the benefit of the fans.

Their aim should be to promote the general feeling of what the fans want, need, the realisitic expectation and to feedback on the general mood offering suggestions and encouraging a culture of best practice and to support the board in improving the standards in tandem with what the fans want.

You don't necessarily need to be a profesisonal to do that, you need someone who is capable and willing to work with the SLO and others to meet, discuss, canvass and also weed out the nonsense before meeting with the board or and Exec group commissioned.

You could debate if it’s a C1872 member then they may have more of agenda for their members but what if it was just a capable fan whose only agenda is Rangers but without the degree?

@Greg Marshall without the full understanding of your role, is the above what you are involved with?
 

bornabluenose

Well-Known Member
Football trusts and similar supporter representation groups still have a very long way to go in British football, particularly within the Rangers support.

What purpose do people want Club 1872 to serve? To be a militant organisation that shouts loudly? To be a representative organisation that has a voice at board level? The 2 aren't necessarily mutually exclusive but its a fine balancing act. Does it help the membership for Club 1872 to become board patsies? No. Does it help for them to become so disliked within the Rangers boardroom that the club stops talking to them? No.

Sometimes members of fans groups need to accept that you need to build a working relationship with the people who own and run the football club. Sometimes there's a need for commercial confidentiality. Its not ideal and in a perfect world there would be complete transparency and full disclosure from club to fans group to membership. In the real world that simply can't happen.

In my opinion Club 1872 exist to serve 2 roles - act as a vehicle for increasing fan ownership through collective share purchasing and act to represent the interests of the membership. The former is relatively straight forward. The latter relies on the membership having faith in it's elected office bearers and representatives and those people acting with integrity. Sometimes that falls short. Either the membership lose faith in the people elected to represent them or the office bearers become a little too cozy with the ownership group and senior management that they're trying to hold to account. If thats the case then the solution is clear - stand for office as an alternative and try to act in a way that you believe the previous reps didn't until such time as somebody loses faith in you and challenges your actions on behalf of the organisation.

The Rangers support has been distrusting of supporters representation for approaching 18 years now. The RST had it's critics. It had those within the organisation who wanted to go in a different direction. Unfortunately the membership didn't react in the correct way - proper debate and, if necessary, an election of new board members/reps to step up and take that work on. Fans sniped. Fans argued. Fans eventually ensured that the trust became marginalised as it was seen as a dysfunctional and unimportant group from those on the outside looking in. The same may well happen to Club 1872 and if it does then I'd place as big part of the blame on the membership of the organisation as on those running it.

These kind of groups only work with an engaged membership who are active. Club 1872 is only ever going to be as strong as it's membership. If members expect Club 1872 reps/board members to do all the work for them then it's doomed to fail. If the membership can't accept that a degree of confidentiality is needed in order to build the kind of constructive relationships that will see the group actually listened to within the club's senior management and ownership group then its on a one way trip to becoming a joke figure. Similarly if there is a creeping notion amongst some board members/reps that there's a chance to have a cozy relationship with the board at the expense of being an effective voice for the membership then its for the members to stand up and make their voices heard. In my entire time as a member of the RST I attended almost every AGM. The first meeting I went to was at a packed Partick borough hall. As time went on those meetings became smaller and smaller - first it was a packed Wee Rangers Club but as the years passed that became a busy WRC and then a half-empty WRC. Eventually it became a very quiet WRC with a handful of people from an organisation with a membership that at one point numbered in the thousands.

If fans want effective representation then it's time to buy into a proper fans group. If that's Club 1872 then so be it. The membership needs to become more active. It needs to hold it's board members and reps to account. Paying to be a member of Club 1872 does nothing unless you also give it your time and effort. The one thing that's guaranteed to end the group isn't the odd disagreement between board members, even if it leads to public spats and resignations like this. The one thing that will kill off meaningful supporter representation is apathy from the support at large and, in particular, the membership.

It's your group. They represent you. You need to make your voice heard.
Fair and balanced.
 

ibroxbound

Well-Known Member
I don't know the timescale of informing companies house about change of directors status but the site still has the resigned director as 'active'.
 

George Goudie

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
Hi. GG,

I’m well aware of discussions between Stewart and PS. Leaflet drops would need to be approved at a pre-ops (today is the final one for a match at Ibrox this season) on the club footprint but outwith there is no issues.

To be fair GG, I’m sure PS can lay out the time line of emails to responses and I believe they had a conversation not long ago (possibly last home game). I myself have received little contact in regard to the movement from PS and as I stated I was informed I would be contacted with the results of the survey as I was keen to see the results. I praised PS when I met him for following the correct procedure after the initial confusion with having to pay for the results for the survey but we have to ensure that the correct procedure is followed through.

I think it’s vital that fans have a voice and use the routes available for discussion with the club - and there are many.

The important thing imo is to not do they club v the fans angle as in my experience it’s a fallacy. The both parties are inextricably linked and rely on each other - the club’s success is the supporters and that is what we are striving toward
Missed your response somehow Greg. Apologies.

Thanks for addressing my post and advice noted.

Edit: You'll be pleased to note that PS is not for turning. I'm sure you'll hear from him soon. The good thing (that this season has shown us) is that capacity changes can be implemented any time DURING the season.... ala hivs. :) :)

Keep up the good work Sir.
 

catchdavid

Active Member
Official Ticketer
I would be quite happy to sit down and have a discussion with any Rangers fan, as you say, I am not a shrinking violet:rolleyes: but it is all the lies and nonsense I can't be bothered with.
It was once said of me by a person I have known all my adult life that
' if you don't know Robert, he is very easy to dislike, but when you actually get to know him, it's hard not to like him.'
I'll settle for that
I’d be happy to take you up on that offer. I’d also be delighted if your Son joined us as and got involved in that discussion as I tried numerous times to get him to do to no avail.
 

Northhiglander

Well-Known Member
Fair points mate. All I can say from my point of view is that many people I speak with just have little interest in getting involved, mainly due to what is perceived as regular problems and issues which seem to have been around over a long period of time. I think faith in this kind of set up working effectively and reaching genuine objectives is relatively low.
Think this hits the nail on the head. Every time we have a chance of a coherent voice for fans it is spoiled by the same problems every time. Sad, could be really powerful instead weak and ineffective.
 

Auld Bear

New Member
I've been studying this post and the comments as I am an original life member of Club 1872 and after doing a bit of research on the internet, I am of the opinion that with all the controversy surrounding the individuals concerned, Club 1872's going nowhere unless they get rid!

Only my opinion mind you.
 

Skipper08

Well-Known Member
I’m sure I’m like many others when I say the constant sniping and bitching of the Rangers support is boring and embarrassing. Most of us can’t be bothered with it and it’s why fan ownership is a pipe dream.

A guy I used to work with and socialised with is a VB and I’ve got to the stage with him that I don’t even engage when it comes to Rangers. If someone says black he says white. I’m sure some of his points are valid although when he started ranting and raving towards Dave King because an email regarding season tickets was sent out just after Gerrard was appointed summed it up for me. Imagine trying to shift season books on the basis of a football legend coming to the club.

If people want to be part of C1872 let them, if they don’t no worries. Keep the bitching private. It’s embaressing.
 

mdingwall

Administrator
I've been studying this post and the comments as I am an original life member of Club 1872 and after doing a bit of research on the internet, I am of the opinion that with all the controversy surrounding the individuals concerned, Club 1872's going nowhere unless they get rid!

Only my opinion mind you.
Oh really, and that's the first post you choose to start your FF posting career?

Sniff! Sniff!
 

jweebear

Well-Known Member
Missed your response somehow Greg. Apologies.

Thanks for addressing my post and advice noted.

Edit: You'll be pleased to note that PS is not for turning. I'm sure you'll hear from him soon. The good thing (that this season has shown us) is that capacity changes can be implemented any time DURING the season.... ala hivs. :) :)

Keep up the good work Sir.
Aberdoom and Heart's did it in previous mid-seasons, now Hivs at the end of this season. So all being fair Rangers can do any time during the coming season, giving proper notice to the scum.
 
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