Club 1872 statement

Be interested to hear what the board have to say. If club 1872 have £13 million why not a share issue ?
They don’t have the £13m, they are seeking to raise it. If they buy King’s percentage of the current shareholding then it gives them a greater influence than buying £13m worth of newly issued shares. The latter also still leaves the issue of King looking for a buyer for £13m worth of shares. Who’s to say who could end up with those.
 
Anyone thinking the current major shareholders would allow C1872 to hold 25% +1 shares in the company is living in a scary dream world that would be incredibly dangerous for us as a club.

That power of veto that many view as a safeguard will be viewed by other potential investors as a red flag and they will stay well away.

I would suspect that King has given the supporters group the three years purchase period at the current price to keep them involved but also give the current board sufficient time to secure significant new investment to dilute his holding enough to keep them below 25%.
I agree I should think a balance will be struck that ensures the club remains in safe hands.
 
Around £15m over 3 years is a big ask but the reward would be exceptional. It would give the fans control of just over 25%, the level at which they can block any special resolutions they don’t like or give big support to those they do. It is difficult to overstate just how important that would be if they can pull it off. Major asset sales, company reconstructions and the like would need their support. Almost impossible for an Easdale or Ashley to get control ever again. So let’s do it guys. However, if they get to 25%+ they’ve got to keep it there unless they can work closely with other shareholders - which shouldn’t be difficult.
 
I'm not a member of club 1872, however I'm cautiously optimistic about this. Just hope that we can avoid or reduce the infighting that seems to plague all of our fan groups.
 
£13m is a lot of money to try and find from supporters.I would love to secure our future ensuring rats from our recent pass can’t do what they did to us ever again.If I’m reading that right do they have a deadline to respond to Dave Kings offer?What kind of money will it take from each fan who’s willing to participate?I don’t know how to react to this.Bit sad he wants out but thankful to him at the same time.
 
If I held 25% of the shares then I would want at least one seat on the Board.

If that was the limit to Club1872's ambitions then I would go for it ,as long as the present directors would still be in place. I said earlier that the officers of the company would have to change and be professional rather than a Rangers fan who happens to be in Club 1872.
 
Potentially brilliant, but we need to think long and hard about the aims of club1872 for the medium to long term. As a member I don’t think there is enough engagement, and this creates a perception of a lack of openness, possibly undeservedly so. There is no doubt this is a great opportunity for Rangers fans collectively to impact on the development and direction our club takes.
 
When Club 1872 was being launched I suggested a low cost, one off, life time membership that could be purchased by individuals for themselves and as a gift for others. As an example I would have bought at least 10 for friends and family such as my 89 year old mother, the in laws, my daughters in Oz and their partners etc. By my reckoning we could have had over 200,000 members. This would have made us one of the biggest organisations in Scotland.

I was aware the majority of these members wouldn't be very active but the sheer volume would have given Club 1872 political clout. It would have given us power and a direct link with a vast pool of potential future investors.

I dont know if this would have been better than the current model but my feeling is the emphasis on raising funds from the outset has proved detrimental to our fan membership/ownership aims. Less than 8,000 members is just not good enough for a club with our fanbase.
The fact it is so low is a major reason it’s so low it’s a catch 22. High numbers suggests to folk that it’s well run and gives them political clout as you said . Low numbers puts others off for the opposite reason. There needs to be a huge drive to raise numbers. Compare our fan base to a club of hearts. They have double the members in foundation of hearts of club1872. Why Is that
 
Im all for the fans to retain majority ownership. Full stop. It will prevent any future corruption and exploitation by the Greens and Shites of this world that attempted to destroy us. I am a life-long member of Club 1872. It might not be perfect but I’d rather have infighting that another White and Green empire ripping us to shreds for 10 years of our lives. I am ready to commit my money where my mouth is. Let me sign up!
 
This will no doubt be both a good thing and a bad thing. Fan influence is certainly good if controlled, but if shares fall into the hands of the wrong type of fan then it could be a disaster.

I would rather we have wealthy investors putting up most of the money at this moment, with the club looking to start becoming a bit more self sufficient in terms of bringing in excess income from player sales, and keeping wages at a manageable level without losing competitiveness on and off the pitch.

we as a club are in a very good position on and off the pitch at present with seemingly good leadership in place as harmony amongst the staff and different departments. The manager has brought a top class club mentality with him it seems, and it’s working right now so this announcement, as good as it seems, the timing is a bit off for me.

not sure how club 1872 plan to keep up with investments etc, other than asking fans for more funds outwith the mygers payments every month on top of tickets, strips and other things the general fan has to fork out monthly and yearly.

Dave king deserves his hero status that he gets among some, I like the guy and appreciate his efforts, but something about this doesn’t sit right. He wants his money back, he knows he won’t get it all, but he’s getting some back and he’ll be happy with it, and going by that statement he wants some form of praise from us as fans for doing what he did.
 
I’d love us to buy his shares. No-one has invested more in the club, by some distance. And a lot wealthier people than him haven’t invested what he has.
 
We need £8 million to see out the season, and yet Dave King offers his shares to Club 1872?
Timing is not right, why announce this today?
 
Nor I, however you or I haven't given up on C1872. I believe in fans having shares in the club, I don't believe we will ever have fan ownership, I'm happy to have a seat on the board though through representation by a professional, picked by the members of C72
I agree mate, the more I think about it the more I'm coming round to it.
But club 1872 need to sort themselves out, they have around 7k members, getting another 20k will be a big ask I reckon although looking at how many jumped at mygers its maybe feasible.

My worry is that the infighting of the past turns fans away.
 
I think that's probably true at the moment, but what about in 10, 20 or another 150 years time?

I have sufficient trust in the current Board/Investors at the moment that the value of £13m direct to The Club over any individual cannot be compared.

While the importance of the future of Our Club cannot be understated, the 10, 20, 150 years you speak of, the here and now is crucial. I’m afraid I cannot see any justification for the thought process of C1872.
 
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The fact it is so low is a major reason it’s so low it’s a catch 22. High numbers suggests to folk that it’s well run and gives them political clout as you said . Low numbers puts others off for the opposite reason. There needs to be a huge drive to raise numbers. Compare our fan base to a club of hearts. They have double the members in foundation of hearts of club1872. Why Is that

My feeling was we placed too much emphasis on raising cash to buy shares. There's nothing wrong in raising money and buying shares but leave this till we have the numbers in first.
 
Because Dave King wants the money he initially invested back. And he would rather sell to the fans.

Not sure I would be happy with the club being majority owned by a fans group after the farce that was the Rangers Fans Fighting Fund money being used to build a stand that 99% of contributors would never see never mind use.

Take solice in the fact, then, that its a changing facility for our youth which happens to have a few seats patched on to it.

These facilties help produce the next Hutton, McGregor, Adam, Wilson, Dickson, Patterson and King.
 
I have sufficient trust in the current Board/Investors at the moment that the value of £13m direct to The Club over any individual cannot be compared.

While the importance of the future of Our Club cannot be understated, the 10, 20, 150 years you speak of, the hear and now is crucial. I’m afraid I cannot see any justification for the thought process of C1872.

Agree with this completely.
 
Also my understanding of Club 1872 is that each member has one vote regardless of their contribution, and that any vote put to members is carried on a simple majority.
And this is absolutely excellent. It shouldn’t matter if I have been putting in my £18.72 for the last 6 years and someone joins up tomorrow to do the same, each of our votes should be equal. We are one fan and one fan. This is the only way something like this works. Creating a hierarchy of fans would be doomed to failure.
 
What I did read out of that is that his family aren’t keen on that idea
I don't think that's correct. It's Dave King who isn't keen on leaving his family to decide the fate of his shares if (when) he can no longer make decisions about what to do with them (for example, if he dies, or develops a disease such as dementia). He wants to sell them to a responsible party (in this case, Club 1872) while he's still on the ball, so to speak.
 
It's crazy that within six years we've gone from being a shell of a football club that was broken beyond belief and rolling from one crisis to another, to a club that has a footballing, corporate and recruitment structure and hierarchy in place that works so well a fans group can come in as the largest single shareholder and not really have to do anything except "stop anything crazy from happening, keep the structure, keep things ticking over, maybe invest capital here and there".
 
Not sure what to think.

If Dave King wants to sell up and give his family greater future security he has absolutely earned the right to leave club affairs to others. History will remember him as a great Ranger.

But 13M is a lot of money for a fans group to pay out, and what will they do with this greater influence? I always worry our fan groups inevitably splinter and fall out.

Rangers aren't any better off here, are they?

No. They aren’t.

No new money comes into the club but C1872 does have a much stronger position on the board as the biggest single shareholder.

My concerns are similar to many others already expressed, and I admit I’ve only read the first two pages of this thread, so apologies if these issues have already been raised later on the thread.

Firstly, I think C1872 will find it tough to raise £13m from 20,000 new investors. Then, even if we did manage that, where would the new money being invested in the club thereafter come from, when rights issues come along. Would C1872 just have to go back to the members and ask them for even more again? I’m not sure that the basic structure is sustainable as a means of bringing in additional funding long term.

Secondly, I share the concerns about the past history we have of internal politics and infighting where fan groups are concerned.

Thirdly, the RFFF end result is a good example of what can happen when committees end up making decisions for all the members. I think it’s fair to say the new stand at Auchenhowie does add to the facility but 99.9% of supporters and members will never see any benefit from it or even sit in it once.

Lastly, someone like me would be a person who would be happy to invest new money into the club in a new share issue, but I want to control my own vote on my own shares. That’s maybe just me. I run my own business and don’t like other people controlling my money or my affairs.

So, I’m sure King has the right intentions here, but I’d far rather see King retain his shareholding and we try to attract new money by allowing C1872 and ordinary supporters to buy shares and control them themselves.
 
When DK invested originally I was under the impression that he was willing to part with his wealth in an almost "gift" way. I wasn't aware that he wanted it back and so soon. I'm not sure fan ownership of a club of this size is doable. It's a huge ask to continue to fund the initial acquisition of the shares then ask for more funds going forward to assist in player/staff purchase.

Im really surprised that he's not offered his shares to any of the existing larger shareholders.
 
Potentially brilliant, but we need to think long and hard about the aims of club1872 for the medium to long term. As a member I don’t think there is enough engagement, and this creates a perception of a lack of openness, possibly undeservedly so. There is no doubt this is a great opportunity for Rangers fans collectively to impact on the development and direction our club takes.
The current set up is absolutely flawed. The fact that we still haven’t had an email from club 1872 outlining its plans, ever a cursory one, about it is testament to this. That along with no published accounts this year, as far as I can see is troubling. And even if they are, why can’t I easily find them on the website.

We need to introduce term limits to board members on club 1872. We need to be a share buying vehicle only, no projects, no donations. It’s about buying shares in Rangers and owning 25% of the club. Serve your term limit and step down. People becoming entrenched, as they are now, is not healthy.
 
My feeling was we placed too much emphasis on raising cash to buy shares. There's nothing wrong in raising money and buying shares but leave this till we have the numbers in first.
It’s defo gonna be interesting . Club1872 have to come out and show us the plan. If they don’t then they won’t get anywhere near the numbers required.as it stands they do not have the acumen to hold 25% of our club
 
It's crazy that within six years we've gone from being a shell of a football club that was broken beyond belief and rolling from one crisis to another, to a club that has a footballing, corporate and recruitment structure and hierarchy in place that works so well a fans group can come in as the largest single shareholder and not really have to do anything except "stop anything crazy from happening, keep the structure, keep things ticking over, maybe invest capital here and there".

Keeping things ticking over? Invest capital here and there?

Not the story that the club accounts tell.

Rangers are rebuilding. That rebuild has been funded by investors. Remove that investment and the business model at Ibrox remains far too unbalanced. The current situation may be what was needed to close the gap with Celtic, reassert some form of domestic strength and modernise the club's footballing structure. There are still massive questions over club finances.

Whether it's as a part fan owned club or as a club that is majority owned by a few key investors, unless they're willing and able to pump millions into the club on a regular basis? Rangers needs to improve. The current model isnt sustainable in the long term. It's a return to the boom and bust and unsustainable finances of David Murray.
 
I’m not convinced by this development not least by the fact that I am struggling to see how Club1872 raise £13m in the current economic climate when fans are already in effect making a charitable donation for season tickets this year plus shelling out on replica kit, MyGers, RTV etc. This seems a massive ask of fans. Plus if there’s a future share issue where will the funds come from to avoid the shareholding being diluted.
There is also what seems to be questionable corporate governance at Club1872 with what appears to be a fair bit of infighting over the years. Before fans put any money in the structure of Club1872 must be absolutely clear as entrusting the organisation with £13m of fans hare earned cash to thereafter take a seat on the board is a massive responsibility. The careful selection of appropriate individuals with the highest calibre CV’s i.e. People who have sat on and have experience of being on a board & can compliment, add value and add constructive challenge to the existing board Will be crucial I feel.
I’m not convinced but open to be but there is a lot of information and planning ahead to ensure this all works out for the best as intended.
Despite my reservations I’ll keep paying my £10 a month to Club1872
 
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I will be sad to see Dave King relinquish his stake in our club, he has always had our best interests at heart.
Whilst the concept of fan ownership is attractive there is always the fear of internal squabbling and the club becoming hamstrung if there is no agreement on the way forward between C1872 officers or from a members’ vote. I would like to see some influential advisory panel of proven Rangers’ people being established.
 
It’s defo gonna be interesting . Club1872 have to come out and show us the plan. If they don’t then they won’t get anywhere near the numbers required.as it stands they do not have the acumen to hold 25% of our club

I dont there's any chance of Club 1872 getting the numbers required.

Hope Im wrong.
 
Timing seems a bit strange, not sure we are ready for this as a club yet.

I would have liked King closer to the club for a bit longer.

His call at the end of the day.
 
Because Dave King wants the money he initially invested back. And he would rather sell to the fans.

Not sure I would be happy with the club being majority owned by a fans group after the farce that was the Rangers Fans Fighting Fund money being used to build a stand that 99% of contributors would never see never mind use.
In my opinion the crux of it is his family have no understanding of/interest in rangers fc and he doesn’t trust them (future generations) not to sell to the highest bidder - thus putting us back into jeopardy of falling into a mike Ashley scenario again.
 
It's crazy that within six years we've gone from being a shell of a football club that was broken beyond belief and rolling from one crisis to another, to a club that has a footballing, corporate and recruitment structure and hierarchy in place that works so well a fans group can come in as the largest single shareholder and not really have to do anything except "stop anything crazy from happening, keep the structure, keep things ticking over, maybe invest capital here and there".

I agree but what worries me with this is c1872 do something crazy. The calibre of candidate elected by popular vote will most likely be miles away from the hard nosed businessmen we need running the club.
 
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Are club1872 looking for 20k new members, taking total number to 27k? Maybe l have this wrong, if we have are to raise 13m would each member be expected to pay circa £500 for the privilege?is the idea to open membership each year to make ensure the baseline membership number of 27k is achieved, do you think there will be dividend payments as an incentive?
 
Take solice in the fact, then, that its a changing facility for our youth which happens to have a few seats patched on to it.

These facilties help produce the next Hutton, McGregor, Adam, Wilson, Dickson, Patterson and King.
The point is it is not what the money was donated for.
 
I’m a big Dave King fan (and a long-term Club 1872 contributor) and hope he is involved in our future in as meaningful a way as possible for as long as possible.

This news will take some time to digest.

My initial thoughts, however, are that I don’t like this development one bit.
On what basis?
 
I agree but what’s worries me with this is c1872 do something crazy. The calibre of candidate elected by popular vote will most likely be miles away from the hard nosed businessmen we need running the club.
Club 1872 will never be there to run the club. Any fan rep will be a check and balance, nothing more.

Club 1872 need to be promoting this line. It’s a share buying vehicle. Nothing else. It’s role on the board will be to ensure a 2012 situation never arrived again. Nothing else.
 
They could have ensured the website wasn't down for maintenance when releasing a statement and asking for people to join Club 1872.
It’s probably crashed due to the volume of sudden traffic. Which is still not great tbf.
 
I’m still very mixed about this. We’d all have given anything to have enough shares to veto most things back in 2012/13/4. This is what King said he thought was a good idea when he got in so I don’t think it’s a change in direction.

I have become disillusioned with the idea of fan ownership for us. Things are going well just now and I don’t want it derailed now or in the future.

All in all I don’t think it’s a bad thing as long as it goes how intended. I think if we want to ensure 2012 never happens again, we need to put our big boy pants on and take responsibility.
 
So it looks they want to pay Dave King £13m for his shares rather than invest new money?
My initial thoughts.
Then where has 72 got £13m, then you read on.
72 want fans paying in. Fair enough all for that but who's the man that would bankroll us a la king n 3bears ?

My main concern is how does this sit with the new investment from far east bear...Gibson i think ?
 
Given our history of infighting, jealousy of so called "blazer chasing" and Club 1872 being a bit of a damp squib so far, this doesn't fill me with confidence.

13 million the club needs now and a potential majority shareholder with no money to put into the club just doesn't make sense.

The club isn't anywhere near breaking even or being self sustaining yet, fan ownership is always a nice headline or day dream for fans, but these are multi million pound companies and need to be run as such.
 
I’m still very mixed about this. We’d all have given anything to have enough shares to veto most things back then. This is what King said he thought was a good idea when he got in so I don’t think it’s a change in direction.

I have become disillusioned with the idea of fan ownership for us. Things are going well just now and I don’t want it derailed now or in the future.

All in all I don’t think it’s a bad thing as long as it goes how intended. I think if we want to ensure 2012 never happens again, we need to put our big boy pants on and take responsibility.
Likewise... however if DK has sold out

A. Hopefully, he's selling to proper folk

B. He just wanted his £20m back...or most of it.

C. We'll soon find out
 
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