Club 1872 statement

[Coisty09]

The reality is that Club 1872 now has to have a professional board.
If it is going to manage a £13 million fundraiser and continued investment, then strong professionally qualified directors are an absolute must.
There is no way people will invest what will be considerable sums unless the structure is sorted out and Club 1872 shows a level of professionalism that has been sadly lacking until this point.
We are now talking serious money and decisions being made at the Club 1872 board level that will have a massive affect on our football club.
With that level of shareholding then a club 1872 director will have to be a member of the main football club board.
It is conceivable that if this goes ahead then Club 1872 (in time) will be consulted/involved in player buying/selling decisions.
I don’t want that to be subject to internal power struggles going on between different fan groups!!

 

[GimmeShelter]

Club 1872 having a rep on the board doesn’t mean it has to be a board member of c1872. You can propose someone who has the requisite knowledge and background to represent you.

like Leanne Dempster

 

[jdm1873]

The reality is that Club 1872 now has to have a professional board.
If it is going to manage a £13 million fundraiser and continued investment, then strong professionally qualified directors are an absolute must.
There is no way people will invest what will be considerable sums unless the structure is sorted out and Club 1872 shows a level of professionalism that has been sadly lacking until this point.
We are now talking serious money and decisions being made at the Club 1872 board level that will have a massive affect on our football club.
With that level of shareholding then a club 1872 director will have to be a member of the main football club board.
It is conceivable that if this goes ahead then Club 1872 (in time) will be consulted/involved in player buying/selling decisions.
I don’t want that to be subject to internal power struggles going on between different fan groups!!

It has to be a professional board especially given the monumental task before it.

You can't doubt their passion for the club but it will have to become a completely different company.

 

[Baloo72]

I'm not getting the £13 million would be better going to the club posts, obviously that's the case, the money would be great

King is selling his shares, are 1872 supposed to say they are not interested? It's their reason for being
Any shares that are for sale its their duty to buy them at the right price

 

[jdm1873]

like Leanne Dempster

If she is wanting a new challenge and she's been linked to the chief executive job at Queen's Park then she would be ideal given her experience.

 

[focrs]

Without someone with financial interest and business minded head on them put in place could be a real problem. Don’t think this is going to be a good idea
They will also be looking for a wage for doing the job which we will need to fund.

 

[The_Hammer1990]

This doesn’t sit right with me, and that’s said as a C1872 member.

C1872 have had years to get themselves organised into something that is a much more professional group, and they have been unable to do so. They’re not fit for the purpose of main shareholder, at least in their current format.

 

[GimmeShelter]

If she is wanting a new challenge and she's been linked to the chief executive job at Queen's Park then she would be ideal given her experience.

I think so too mate

 

[spotlight]

Thinking that Dave King is giving the fans group the chance to put their money in, as he promised. First dibs.
If they can't buy all his shares, the remaining portion hopefully he will offer to the existing big investors, or some new ones that hopefully he knows and trusts. Just hope they are good Bears.
Pay my £10/month into Club 1872 but need to hear and understand a lot more from them. Willing to contribute once more info out.
Am really more interested in a general share issue where tens of thousands of fans could all pile in and put new money into the club.
And thank you Mr King, you did all you said you would.
A Rangers Great.

 

[laudrup94]

I wouldn’t want Club 1872 anywhere near the boardroom. Won’t have enough money to do this, won’t have the financial clout to support Park Bennet and Wolhard etc. Don’t have anywhere near enough knowledge as they are currently set up.

 

[Papac]

A vehicle were fans can pay a monthly or annual fee which could allow the club to have an excellent yearly transfer budget would be ideal but would require a lot of long term commitment from the fans but if we could get 100,000 fans putting in £100 a year or something like £10 a month would give the club over £10 million extra investment each season

Do you really think that's how it would work?

 

[KGR98]

Do you really think that's how it would work?

It's the way it should yes

 

[daven37]

Fair do’s mate. What I would say though is that if they try and raise £13m for a new share issue instead - and I see the benefit, obviously, of cash going into the Club - it still leaves King, or his family, looking to sell a huge chunk of shares to goodness knows who. He clearly wants out and wants the cash in. There’s every chance he’s offered his shares to his former colleagues as well but they have declined. So who buys them and how desperate is he to get his money in the next 3 years?

Its a far from ideal situation on so many levels.

The idea that if C1872 don't buy the shares then DK may sell to an undesirable just to get cash - to me - doesn't make sense.

DK has built something special - to do the above would be to ruin all that. I don't think he would even contemplate doing that.

If anyone deserves his cash back it is DK - it would be a massive pisser that this cash wouldn't go to Rangers FC but I don't think I could grudge him the cash.

In an ideal world C1872 would buy these shares and have a trusted model that could assist in taking Rangers forward into a position where we can run the club in a sustainable manner.

Unfortunately I don't think C1872 are anywhere near ready but what I think counts for nothing as I am nowhere near qualified.

 

[Henrywatson115]

this is utter madness and will end in bitching.in the current climate surely the money put into the club.
see on a more serious note have any member on here of this group been consulted on these purchases

 

[Bluedell]

I'm not getting the £13 million would be better going to the club posts, obviously that's the case, the money would be great

King is selling his shares, are 1872 supposed to say they are not interested? It's their reason for being
Any shares that are for sale its their duty to buy them at the right price

Yes, they should be saying that they're not interested,and saying to the club that they can raise £13m and can the club have another share issue.

It's their duty to put money into the club, and not just buy shares that are no benefit to Rangers.

 

[cambridgeblue]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1333901399961296896

 

[Bluedell]

Without said Shareholder there would be NO club, is he not entitled to some kind of return?
I'd much rather his shares are sold on to a vetted single individual or consortium that have Rangers at the heart of their interests

He's entitled to sell them, but as a C1872 member, I don't think C1872 should be paying money to a third party when it could go into the club.

 

[Valley Bluenose]

The idea that if C1872 don't buy the shares then DK may sell to an undesirable just to get cash - to me - doesn't make sense.

DK has built something special - to do the above would be to ruin all that. I don't think he would even contemplate doing that.

If anyone deserves his cash back it is DK - it would be a massive pisser that this cash wouldn't go to Rangers FC but I don't think I could grudge him the cash.

In an ideal world C1872 would buy these shares and have a trusted model that could assist in taking Rangers forward into a position where we can run the club in a sustainable manner.

Unfortunately I don't think C1872 are anywhere near ready but what I think counts for nothing as I am nowhere near qualified.

I think DKs concern is that it may not be him selling the shares in the future. I turn 65 tomorrow, King is just 4 months older than me, and your mind does wander to what happens when you’re gone. His family might not give a shit who gets the shares.

EDIT: In fact I’ve just seen that Q & A linked a few posts up

One of my concerns was what would happen if I was not around, it’s not as if my family are ardent Rangers fans.

Thinking through that I realised one of the things I could still do is share it back to the supporters while I still maintain influence over my holding. I am particularly mindful of the supporters, the part they played and especially the Club1872.

This is my way of ensuring that my shares are now in a safe pair of hands and we don’t have a situation in the future where my family might sell them to the highest bidder, someone who had a different interest in the club going forward.

 

[RfcIbrox]

Never knew that. Gives me a bit of optimism then, thanks!

It’s patently evident. This is about stopping a repeat of 2012. We cannot rely on millionaires to constantly babysit our club. This isn’t about overall fan ownership, this is about 25%, having a veto and ensuring we never suffer the shite we have for the last 10 years.

How can anyone not see this. It’s beyond me.

I think the intentions are good but owning 25% may not have stopped Murray from taking high risk decisions. Folk with better business brains than 1872 were around Murray and they couldnt stop him. But stopping his shares going to spivs is a big part of this as you say and we should welcome that and sort out the role of 1872 later.

 

[Baloo72]

Yes, they should be saying that they're not interested,and saying to the club that they can raise £13m and can the club have another share issue.

It's their duty to put money into the club, and not just buy shares that are no benefit to Rangers.

And Kings shares?

 

[sonowilliam]

Not too sure about this at the moment,too many questions and not enough answers.

I get the feeling that Dave King has bailed out for whatever reason.

Club 1872 need to come out and speak in layman's terms and tell us all what is expected of us fans.

 

[Eddie Badabing]

Yes, they should be saying that they're not interested,and saying to the club that they can raise £13m and can the club have another share issue.

It's their duty to put money into the club, and not just buy shares that are no benefit to Rangers.

My head agrees with you but I then ask myself how much would we have paid to have had the ability to veto Craig Whyte on 2011?

I'm not fully formed on what I think about today's news but I think getting to 25% is an opportunity we should take. King is basically telling us if gets hit with a bus his shares could be available to anyone.

Beyond this club 1872 should be a source of additional funding for the club. But unless it is completely revamped and given proper professionalism, corporate nous, and effective communication and marketing, this is doomed to failure. Based on recent activity it is currently unfit for the job in hand.

 

[Tugay1872]

I did Rangers First for just around a year then pulled out when I wasn't getting any info or what I'd at least expect (maybe two letters a year idk). Would invest if I know we could somehow not just be a static member. Funds need to come from somewhere. But that's the basis of markets; new things to exploit.

Pretty sure doesn't need to go down the trap of politikaburo committee selection and division.

 

[weeneebs]

He's entitled to sell them, but as a C1872 member, I don't think C1872 should be paying money to a third party when it could go into the club.

Agreed and that's why I cant see C1872 being able to raise the relevant funds needed to acquire Mr Kings shares. It's giving C1872 first refusal in a sense, I agree that all fans cash investments should be for the benefit of club, I'm positive that there will be further investors ready to step in who are already involved financially or have business relations to potential new investors

 

[Tugay1872]

And those being suspect of this, I get it. But at best this is a symbolic gesture that in real time play will end up going to another party due to unlikelihood of it happening.

I like having enough fan control. But I also like Sugar Daddies lmao.

 

[LLLG]

Lets be honest, they won’t do that.

Not a hope!

 

[spaceman2]

Having 25% + 1 meaning that they can block anything harmful to the club and spivs getting their hands on our club - great, and would be a comfort that we'd have that safety net. On the other hand, I kind of have conerns around any one shareholder having that power... What if C1872 decided to block new share issues which the club needed for future investment out of self-interest if they didn't have the funds available to buy in and maintain their shareholding position?

However - as they currently stand C1872 are not structured professionally enough for this type of endeavour; meaning they would need to scale up in terms of corporate covernance. They need to be far more transparent with their processes and there can't be any hint of the previous infighting.

Who would they nominate to the board? That has to be someone with the appropriate levels of experience and know how. Details of their plans should be made available before asking people to stump up more cash.

 

[sammy1872]

For now it’s quite simple

club1862 now have to come out and deliver a fully explained , fully funded, transparent plan on why supporters should back them and what would happen if they were successful. It cannot just be sound bites about 25% stopping any chance of the spivs trust us blah blah blah . A proper business plan . A prospectus type thing

 

[bluesith]

I find it quite sad that Dave King would not stay for ever , but he's not a young guy , and if his family have no interest , then perhaps in the future we'd just be an asset to sell , to anyone . Definitely sad tho , as having Dave King there feels secure , in with that , if he thinks it's best that club1872 have the option , I'm in . I did support club1872 for a while until I couldn't really afford it , but I'll be looking into a small contribution if I can.

 

[sammy1872]

Having 25% + 1 meaning that they can block anything harmful to the club and spivs getting their hands on our club - great, and would be a comfort that we'd have that safety net. On the other hand, I kind of have conerns around any one shareholder having that power... What if C1872 decided to block new share issues which the club needed for future investment out of self-interest if they didn't have the funds available to buy in and maintain their shareholding position?

However - as they currently stand C1872 are not structured professionally enough for this type of endeavour; meaning they would need to scale up in terms of corporate covernance. They need to be far more transparent with their processes and there can't be any hint of the previous infighting.

Who would they nominate to the board? That has to be someone with the appropriate levels of experience and know how. Details of their plans should be made available before asking people to stump up more cash.

Step one would be club1872 appointing a credible businessman to a position where they could get that structure in place

 

[The Predator]

I'm unsure about this.

 

[dt17]

The Sevco thread ; still not a thread about Celtic.

It means that no one else will want them so King is hopeful of one final gullibilly fleecing.

kerrydalestreet.co.uk

Someone sent me that link in a WhatsApp chat. That's what their lot are making of it.

 

[Coatbridge Chancellor]

Reading the posts on this thread it would appear that many, maybe even the majority, don’t want fan involvement at Board level, or even a Club that is run on a sustainable basis. What they want is somebody else to keep throwing money at it. That cannot, and will not, go on forever.

Yeah, this.

Also in a similar vein, reading reactions on twitter and elsewhere seems to bring up the idea that people just want King to stay in control/in charge. When it's as clear as day that for whatever reason (and after all he's done for us absolutely rightly so) he doesn't want to be.

 

[BlueBuzz]

Anyone explain why this is a negative if King was willing to sell?

I think we must be the most divided support on the planet.
We need to be all pulling in the same direction and I know we all want the same for our club, but how we get there will be the problem, with so many different opinions, I fear it will lead to nothing but infighting.

 

[spotlight]

It's striking how many of us are concerned about more rats getting their hands on shares in the club in years to come. For over a century ownership was at least in the hands of our own.
Until Murray tossed us to the rats it was unthinkable that we would have to guard against that.
I hope Dave King has thought that far ahead in terms of options on who will actually end up with his shares.
I'm sure he has as so far he's been bang on.

 

[roaddog]

Would rather this was put to bed until May 21 , all focus should be on securing title number 55 no need for distractions.

 

[boracay ranger]

Without someone with financial interest and business minded head on them put in place could be a real problem. Don’t think this is going to be a good idea
They will also be looking for a wage for doing the job which we will need to fund.

I would hazard a guess that Chris Graham will be proposed for this role.

 

[Haining84]

As a Club1872 member I’m cautiously optimistic about this proposed ‘NeverAgain’ deal.

In practice it makes sense that the supporters group gets a healthy chunk of the club that we own for the rest of time to enable us to always protect the clubs interests.25%+1 in theory is the perfect way to do that.

It’ll be a tough ask as many have pointed out raising that volume of funds but I think It could be done if it’s all laid out,explained and marketed effectively.It’s a bit of a step into the unknown but let’s have some confidence and faith in ourselves as a support.

Critically Club1872 are going to have to up their game and fully set everything out but some of the guff posted in here making out random punters are going to be running about the boardroom making spur of the moment ‘Rangers Da’ calls are as pathetic as they are mental!

If you’re skeptical or against the idea that’s fair enough but some people really should know better.The more extreme stuff is up there with the negative crap posted about Dave King,Paul Murray,the Sons of Struth etc during our battle with the Spivs.

It’s really all over to Club1872 now to step up to the plate,explain to the support in detail how this all works in terms of the mechanics of director appointments,the decision making processes and all the nuts and bolts.

There’s never been a government,fan group,golf club committee or coalition that’s ever automatically unanimously agreed on every issue all of the time so let’s give ourselves a bit of respect and faith as a support,stay open minded and see the plan of attack going forward before we start putting problems up that aren’t there yet.

 

[Northhiglander]

As a Club1872 member I’m cautiously optimistic about this proposed ‘NeverAgain’ deal.

In practice it makes sense that the supporters group gets a healthy chunk of the club that we own for the rest of time to enable us to always protect the clubs interests.25%+1 in theory is the perfect way to do that.

It’ll be a tough ask as many have pointed out raising that volume of funds but I think It could be done if it’s all laid out,explained and marketed effectively.It’s a bit of a step into the unknown but let’s have some confidence and faith in ourselves as a support.

Critically Club1872 are going to have to up their game and fully set everything out but some of the guff posted in here making out random punters are going to be running about the boardroom making spur of the moment ‘Rangers Da’ calls are as pathetic as they are mental!

If you’re skeptical or against the idea that’s fair enough but some people really should know better.The more extreme stuff is up there with the negative crap posted about Dave King,Paul Murray,the Sons of Struth etc during our battle with the Spivs.

It’s really all over to Club1872 now to step up to the plate,explain to the support in detail how this all works in terms of the mechanics of director appointments,the decision making processes and all the nuts and bolts.

There’s never been a government,fan group,golf club committee or coalition that’s ever automatically unanimously agreed on every issue all of the time so let’s give ourselves a bit of respect and faith as a support,stay open minded and see the plan of attack going forward before we start putting problems up that aren’t there yet.

IF club 1872 could produce a coherent document that would convince fans it was a good deal, that would be a start. It isn't just that though, Club 1872 hasn't shown any real ability to use such a power sensibly or coherently. Some its activity and infighting would always be a real concern, they would need to show an ability to move on from that.

I really struggle to see them being able to do so. I hope I am wrong because a good fans movement with a controlling stake in the club would be an insurance against a Whyte situation ever happening again.

However I would also be concerned that the controlling interest would soon be watered down, regular investment would be needed given the need to propose up the day to day finances with loans that are converted into shares. Some understanding of the future funding model would be needed.

 

[Mr_Miscellaneous]

The Sevco thread ; still not a thread about Celtic.

It means that no one else will want them so King is hopeful of one final gullibilly fleecing.

kerrydalestreet.co.uk

Someone sent me that link in a WhatsApp chat. That's what their lot are making of it.

Hilarious.

Today, their fans were told by their CEO "You do not have a say. You are here to buy shirts and shut up."

The very same day, our majority shareholder said to us "Do you want to own 25% of the club?"

 

[Delboy Trotter]

To those saying £13m would be better going on new shares, that’s surely on the assumption that those running the club just now will issue significant levels of new shares to attract that kind of money.

IMO there won’t be many, if any, new share issues in the near future as it simply dilutes the existing shareholders percentage owned or those shareholders have to cough up again to keep their percentage

 

[A1bertz]

This doesn’t sit right with me, and that’s said as a C1872 member.

C1872 have had years to get themselves organised into something that is a much more professional group, and they have been unable to do so. They’re not fit for the purpose of main shareholder, at least in their current format.

So did the members vote on whether this was a good idea or not?
This reads like it was a bit of a surprise to members?

 

[o7o]

Given our history of infighting, jealousy of so called "blazer chasing" and Club 1872 being a bit of a damp squib so far, this doesn't fill me with confidence.

13 million the club needs now and a potential majority shareholder with no money to put into the club just doesn't make sense.

The club isn't anywhere near breaking even or being self sustaining yet, fan ownership is always a nice headline or day dream for fans, but these are multi million pound companies and need to be run as such.

Thats how I see it... 72 haven't got £13m correct me if I'm wrong.

All I see is a top shareholder with clout to bankroll when needed is now not there

Because Dave King wants the money he initially invested back. And he would rather sell to the fans.

Not sure I would be happy with the club being majority owned by a fans group after the farce that was the Rangers Fans Fighting Fund money being used to build a stand that 99% of contributors would never see never mind use.

72 can be the best guys in the world. But can they bankroll us when needed?

 

[cadge_1959]

Thats how I see it... 72 haven't got £13m correct me if I'm wrong.

All I see is a top shareholder with clout to bankroll when needed is now not there
72 can be the best guys in the world. But can they bankroll us when needed?

They are not going to bankroll the purchase of DK's shares, they will do it by asking members (existing and new) to buy in. I for one, will be more than happy to be involved in this purchase of shares.

 

[Wilkinsvolley]

Club 1872 hasn’t got a cat in hell chance of raising that kind of money in the timescale indicated. It hasn’t got the credibility amongst the fans. They need to reform into an accountable outfit capable of using power wisely.

Can’t see this working without a serious change.

There needs to be a big change in Club1872 but I also think fans need a shift in mindset too to make this work. I include myself in that because I don’t think fan ownership is right for us. The problem is, that’s what we’ve got and also what we need to safeguard the club well into the future. We need to think back to how helpless we were when we were hours away from everything being hived off for paltry loans. It’s so important for club1872 to sort itself transparently and launch a “never again” campaign properly. A board that disintegrates after a couple of differences is utterly pointless and will ensure this fails.

 

[Wilkinsvolley]

Hilarious.

Today, their fans were told by their CEO "You do not have a say. You are here to buy shirts and shut up."

The very same day, our majority shareholder said to us "Do you want to own 25% of the club?"

And they’re raging about it but trying to pretend they’re laughing about it. Luckily they have DD the absentee landlord to ignore anything they want until he kicks the bucket and/or punts his shares and a spiv gets hold of them. Now that will be funny. Probably even funnier than them just being completely ignored by an absentee landlord

 

[Crispy Bacon]

Hilarious.

Today, their fans were told by their CEO "You do not have a say. You are here to buy shirts and shut up."

The very same day, our majority shareholder said to us "Do you want to own 25% of the club?"

Theres a post there saying “i’ve not idea how any football fan can support a club that openly cheated to every success they have”

well I can’t believe any human being would support a club which had and covered up the biggest pedo ring in sporting history... at least you didn’t use EBT’s... oh wait.

 

[TwoBadMice]

I’ll say one thing

The timing of this absolutely stinks UNLESS the plan B becomes the Plan A

Give the taigs the belief we are genuinely struggling for cash for King to shift the sale to an already waiting in the wings investor whom puts in in more than the 13 and the fans group was offered first dibs

I Trust King

 

[bazzarm123]

Why would Mr King do this at this time when we are in such a good place. End of season/55 in the bag would have been a much better time to push this through.
I don’t get the need to put uncertainty into the mix at such a crucial stage of the season. Maybe the last few years have me paranoid over any financial dealings within the club...

 

[tottie beck]

I feel very uncomfortable with this. I'm all for fan involvement at board level, but fans having control? I'm not so sure.

My take on this is that DK is looking to the future and realizes this family are not going to maintain his involvement once he shuffles off this mortal coil, and rather than see his family sell his shares to the highest bidder, he is giving the fan base, via club1872, the chance to buy his interest now.

Personally i'd much rather he held onto his shares and made provision to do this in his will, but for whatever reason he's chosen to just sell up now. I cant criticize the man after what he has done for us.

I just hope this works for the best. However, with our record of in-fighting I'm afraid I can only see problems ahead. I pray i'm wrong. Hopefully the 3 bears will continue their involvement with the club and we continue to attract outside investment. That is very important to our success. I figure its going to take an all out effort from club1872 to raise 13 million, so we need additional investment on top of that to continue building the side and be successful.