The Predator
Well-Known Member
I'm unsure about this.
Club 1872 statement
- Thread starter mdingwall
- Start date
dt17
A mate of mine.....
The Sevco thread ; still not a thread about Celtic.
It means that no one else will want them so King is hopeful of one final gullibilly fleecing.
Someone sent me that link in a WhatsApp chat. That's what their lot are making of it.
Coatbridge Chancellor
Well-Known Member
Yeah, this.Reading the posts on this thread it would appear that many, maybe even the majority, don’t want fan involvement at Board level, or even a Club that is run on a sustainable basis. What they want is somebody else to keep throwing money at it.That cannot, and will not, go on forever.
Also in a similar vein, reading reactions on twitter and elsewhere seems to bring up the idea that people just want King to stay in control/in charge. When it's as clear as day that for whatever reason (and after all he's done for us absolutely rightly so) he doesn't want to be.
BlueBuzz
Well-Known Member
I think we must be the most divided support on the planet.
We need to be all pulling in the same direction and I know we all want the same for our club, but how we get there will be the problem, with so many different opinions, I fear it will lead to nothing but infighting.
spotlight
Well-Known Member
It's striking how many of us are concerned about more rats getting their hands on shares in the club in years to come. For over a century ownership was at least in the hands of our own.
Until Murray tossed us to the rats it was unthinkable that we would have to guard against that.
I hope Dave King has thought that far ahead in terms of options on who will actually end up with his shares.
I'm sure he has as so far he's been bang on.
Until Murray tossed us to the rats it was unthinkable that we would have to guard against that.
I hope Dave King has thought that far ahead in terms of options on who will actually end up with his shares.
I'm sure he has as so far he's been bang on.
boracay ranger
Well-Known Member
I would hazard a guess that Chris Graham will be proposed for this role.
Haining84
Well-Known Member
As a Club1872 member I’m cautiously optimistic about this proposed ‘NeverAgain’ deal.
In practice it makes sense that the supporters group gets a healthy chunk of the club that we own for the rest of time to enable us to always protect the clubs interests.25%+1 in theory is the perfect way to do that.
It’ll be a tough ask as many have pointed out raising that volume of funds but I think It could be done if it’s all laid out,explained and marketed effectively.It’s a bit of a step into the unknown but let’s have some confidence and faith in ourselves as a support.
Critically Club1872 are going to have to up their game and fully set everything out but some of the guff posted in here making out random punters are going to be running about the boardroom making spur of the moment ‘Rangers Da’ calls are as pathetic as they are mental!
If you’re skeptical or against the idea that’s fair enough but some people really should know better.The more extreme stuff is up there with the negative crap posted about Dave King,Paul Murray,the Sons of Struth etc during our battle with the Spivs.
It’s really all over to Club1872 now to step up to the plate,explain to the support in detail how this all works in terms of the mechanics of director appointments,the decision making processes and all the nuts and bolts.
There’s never been a government,fan group,golf club committee or coalition that’s ever automatically unanimously agreed on every issue all of the time so let’s give ourselves a bit of respect and faith as a support,stay open minded and see the plan of attack going forward before we start putting problems up that aren’t there yet.
In practice it makes sense that the supporters group gets a healthy chunk of the club that we own for the rest of time to enable us to always protect the clubs interests.25%+1 in theory is the perfect way to do that.
It’ll be a tough ask as many have pointed out raising that volume of funds but I think It could be done if it’s all laid out,explained and marketed effectively.It’s a bit of a step into the unknown but let’s have some confidence and faith in ourselves as a support.
Critically Club1872 are going to have to up their game and fully set everything out but some of the guff posted in here making out random punters are going to be running about the boardroom making spur of the moment ‘Rangers Da’ calls are as pathetic as they are mental!
If you’re skeptical or against the idea that’s fair enough but some people really should know better.The more extreme stuff is up there with the negative crap posted about Dave King,Paul Murray,the Sons of Struth etc during our battle with the Spivs.
It’s really all over to Club1872 now to step up to the plate,explain to the support in detail how this all works in terms of the mechanics of director appointments,the decision making processes and all the nuts and bolts.
There’s never been a government,fan group,golf club committee or coalition that’s ever automatically unanimously agreed on every issue all of the time so let’s give ourselves a bit of respect and faith as a support,stay open minded and see the plan of attack going forward before we start putting problems up that aren’t there yet.
Northhiglander
Well-Known Member
IF club 1872 could produce a coherent document that would convince fans it was a good deal, that would be a start. It isn't just that though, Club 1872 hasn't shown any real ability to use such a power sensibly or coherently. Some its activity and infighting would always be a real concern, they would need to show an ability to move on from that.
I really struggle to see them being able to do so. I hope I am wrong because a good fans movement with a controlling stake in the club would be an insurance against a Whyte situation ever happening again.
However I would also be concerned that the controlling interest would soon be watered down, regular investment would be needed given the need to propose up the day to day finances with loans that are converted into shares. Some understanding of the future funding model would be needed.
Mr_Miscellaneous
Well-Known Member
Hilarious.The Sevco thread ; still not a thread about Celtic.
It means that no one else will want them so King is hopeful of one final gullibilly fleecing.kerrydalestreet.co.uk
Someone sent me that link in a WhatsApp chat. That's what their lot are making of it.
Today, their fans were told by their CEO "You do not have a say. You are here to buy shirts and shut up."
The very same day, our majority shareholder said to us "Do you want to own 25% of the club?"
Delboy Trotter
Well-Known Member
To those saying £13m would be better going on new shares, that’s surely on the assumption that those running the club just now will issue significant levels of new shares to attract that kind of money.
IMO there won’t be many, if any, new share issues in the near future as it simply dilutes the existing shareholders percentage owned or those shareholders have to cough up again to keep their percentage
IMO there won’t be many, if any, new share issues in the near future as it simply dilutes the existing shareholders percentage owned or those shareholders have to cough up again to keep their percentage
A1bertz
Well-Known Member
So did the members vote on whether this was a good idea or not?
This reads like it was a bit of a surprise to members?
o7o
Well-Known Member
Thats how I see it... 72 haven't got £13m correct me if I'm wrong.
All I see is a top shareholder with clout to bankroll when needed is now not there
72 can be the best guys in the world. But can they bankroll us when needed?
cadge_1959
Well-Known Member
There needs to be a big change in Club1872 but I also think fans need a shift in mindset too to make this work. I include myself in that because I don’t think fan ownership is right for us. The problem is, that’s what we’ve got and also what we need to safeguard the club well into the future. We need to think back to how helpless we were when we were hours away from everything being hived off for paltry loans. It’s so important for club1872 to sort itself transparently and launch a “never again” campaign properly. A board that disintegrates after a couple of differences is utterly pointless and will ensure this fails.
And they’re raging about it but trying to pretend they’re laughing about it. Luckily they have DD the absentee landlord to ignore anything they want until he kicks the bucket and/or punts his shares and a spiv gets hold of them. Now that will be funny. Probably even funnier than them just being completely ignored by an absentee landlord
Crispy Bacon
Well-Known Member
Theres a post there saying “i’ve not idea how any football fan can support a club that openly cheated to every success they have”
well I can’t believe any human being would support a club which had and covered up the biggest pedo ring in sporting history... at least you didn’t use EBT’s... oh wait.
TwoBadMice
Well-Known Member
I’ll say one thing
The timing of this absolutely stinks UNLESS the plan B becomes the Plan A
Give the taigs the belief we are genuinely struggling for cash for King to shift the sale to an already waiting in the wings investor whom puts in in more than the 13 and the fans group was offered first dibs
I Trust King
The timing of this absolutely stinks UNLESS the plan B becomes the Plan A
Give the taigs the belief we are genuinely struggling for cash for King to shift the sale to an already waiting in the wings investor whom puts in in more than the 13 and the fans group was offered first dibs
I Trust King
bazzarm123
New Member
Why would Mr King do this at this time when we are in such a good place. End of season/55 in the bag would have been a much better time to push this through.
I don’t get the need to put uncertainty into the mix at such a crucial stage of the season. Maybe the last few years have me paranoid over any financial dealings within the club...
I don’t get the need to put uncertainty into the mix at such a crucial stage of the season. Maybe the last few years have me paranoid over any financial dealings within the club...
tottie beck
Well-Known Member
I feel very uncomfortable with this. I'm all for fan involvement at board level, but fans having control? I'm not so sure.
My take on this is that DK is looking to the future and realizes this family are not going to maintain his involvement once he shuffles off this mortal coil, and rather than see his family sell his shares to the highest bidder, he is giving the fan base, via club1872, the chance to buy his interest now.
Personally i'd much rather he held onto his shares and made provision to do this in his will, but for whatever reason he's chosen to just sell up now. I cant criticize the man after what he has done for us.
I just hope this works for the best. However, with our record of in-fighting I'm afraid I can only see problems ahead. I pray i'm wrong. Hopefully the 3 bears will continue their involvement with the club and we continue to attract outside investment. That is very important to our success. I figure its going to take an all out effort from club1872 to raise 13 million, so we need additional investment on top of that to continue building the side and be successful.
My take on this is that DK is looking to the future and realizes this family are not going to maintain his involvement once he shuffles off this mortal coil, and rather than see his family sell his shares to the highest bidder, he is giving the fan base, via club1872, the chance to buy his interest now.
Personally i'd much rather he held onto his shares and made provision to do this in his will, but for whatever reason he's chosen to just sell up now. I cant criticize the man after what he has done for us.
I just hope this works for the best. However, with our record of in-fighting I'm afraid I can only see problems ahead. I pray i'm wrong. Hopefully the 3 bears will continue their involvement with the club and we continue to attract outside investment. That is very important to our success. I figure its going to take an all out effort from club1872 to raise 13 million, so we need additional investment on top of that to continue building the side and be successful.
Coatbridge Chancellor
Well-Known Member
View might be valid if he was asking for it to be done in the next 3 weeks. But there is 3 years to complete this. Little changes in the short term.
Coatbridge Chancellor
Well-Known Member
Again, important to note that nobody is proposing this. If it happens, fans won't be in control. They (we) would be the largest shareholder, but the club would be run, as it is now, by the board of directors. Yes there would almost certainly be 1 C1872 representative on the board, but it's a far cry from control.
For my part, I see it as a proverbial boot in the baws to Park, Letham, Taylor etc.
The aforementioned, will ensure that £8million is in place to see out the season, who's to say they wont ask Club 1872 to stump up the cash if they become the majority shareholder?
SenoraCuellar
Well-Known Member
The last time I read about Club 72 on here had a couple of those within it not flounced off after disagreement? Has all that been resolved? Because no way will this work if there’s no stability.
falkirkbear
Well-Known Member
You'd think they had nothing else to worry about!The Sevco thread ; still not a thread about Celtic.
It means that no one else will want them so King is hopeful of one final gullibilly fleecing.
Someone sent me that link in a WhatsApp chat. That's what their lot are making of it.
SimonLeBon
Well-Known Member
Personal opinion. Not a good thing. They have been non existent for a while now. Infighting a while back. Nah not for me.
SimonLeBon
Well-Known Member
Thats it in a nutshell. Hes recouping.
deedle
Well-Known Member
There is far too much negativity about this news.
Ultimately, it should mean the club being far more assertive when it comes to issues like the SPFL and Sturgeon.
However, what Club1872 probably needs is a prominent figurehead who commands respect within the support and who’d be prepared to take on a leading role.
Ultimately, it should mean the club being far more assertive when it comes to issues like the SPFL and Sturgeon.
However, what Club1872 probably needs is a prominent figurehead who commands respect within the support and who’d be prepared to take on a leading role.
supersouness
Active Member
To put it bluntly, anyone being negative about this doesn’t have the best interests of the club at heart. We get the club we deserve. Every single one of us should be working towards a greater influence over the club even if it’s just a fiver a month.
Does anyone seriously believe we won’t run into financial difficulties again with the current model? Do you think there will always be a bear with deep pockets and our best interests at heart waiting in the wings to bail us out? If you care so much about the club wouldn’t you want to play a small part in influencing it and protecting it?
Bottom line is it’s the only sustainable model for us. We need to get above 25% and keep it.
In the words of Dave King
I’m really hoping the supporters do get together and understand this is a genuine once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to start to take ownership and be the biggest influencer in the club going forward.
Does anyone seriously believe we won’t run into financial difficulties again with the current model? Do you think there will always be a bear with deep pockets and our best interests at heart waiting in the wings to bail us out? If you care so much about the club wouldn’t you want to play a small part in influencing it and protecting it?
Bottom line is it’s the only sustainable model for us. We need to get above 25% and keep it.
In the words of Dave King
I’m really hoping the supporters do get together and understand this is a genuine once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to start to take ownership and be the biggest influencer in the club going forward.
Bluedell
Well-Known Member
Let's say we get the 25% through a massive fund raising from the fans. What happens when the club needs £13m a week later and there's a share issue a week later which C1872 is unable to take part in because all their money went externally?
The magical 25% gets reduced to say 15% and we're back to square one.
Alternatively, the club needs the £13m but is unable to get it from shareholders so it has to sell 2 players, which costs us the league, because C1872 put the needs of Dave King before the funding needs of the club.
I'd agree with you on C1872 needing revamped. Have they even had an AGM since inception?
Very well put mate.
It's not a fans group taking ownership.
It's not fans making day to day decisions.
It's a shareholding large enough to ensure we never suffer as we have since 2012 again in the future.
The one seat that C1872 will inevitably have on the board of directors will be voted on annually by the membership.
It's not going to be some guy going rogue, he will be answerable to the board and members of C1872.
C1872 would have enough of a say to stop it's shareholding being diluted.
Bluedell
Well-Known Member
So someone who believes that C1872 should use its cash to get shares from the club, rather than Dave King, so that the money actually goes to the club, and benefits the club, doesn't have the best interests of the club at heart? Wow.
Yes, we'll run into financial difficulties again, which is why the cash should go to the club and not Dave King.
Bluedell
Well-Known Member
So where does the funding come from? The club needs money and you're suggesting C1872 stops it from raising it by issuing shares just to prevent it from being diluted?
supersouness
Active Member
This is a solution that benefits the club for generations. Dave King’s shareholding gets us where we need to be and would be a fantastic ending to a miserable period in our history that can never be repeated.
Bluedell
Well-Known Member
He gifts them to a trust that is unable to sell them and which C1872 controls the voting rights of.
Bluedell
Well-Known Member
It might get us there temporarily but there's the potential for it to be diluted 6 months later due to its ongoing funding needs. It's not necessarily a "generations" fix.
supersouness
Active Member
Correct. That’s why there needs to be ongoing, small, monthly contributions from the fans. We all need to feel accountable for this. 50K fans spending £5 a month would generate £3M a year in investment for he club. Who else is going to do that and expect nothing in return? We could all be voting for our board representation.
The alternative paths will create periodic problems and god forbid a repeat of 2012. We can’t pass this up after what we’ve been through.
supersouness
Active Member
Unrealistic expectation of King. He answers this in the Times interview.
Northwest Ranger
Well-Known Member
Genuinely unsure of this, only time will tell.
