Club 1872 statement

Coatbridge Chancellor

Well-Known Member
Reading the posts on this thread it would appear that many, maybe even the majority, don’t want fan involvement at Board level, or even a Club that is run on a sustainable basis. What they want is somebody else to keep throwing money at it. :rolleyes: That cannot, and will not, go on forever.
Yeah, this.

Also in a similar vein, reading reactions on twitter and elsewhere seems to bring up the idea that people just want King to stay in control/in charge. When it's as clear as day that for whatever reason (and after all he's done for us absolutely rightly so) he doesn't want to be.
 

BlueBuzz

Well-Known Member
Anyone explain why this is a negative if King was willing to sell?
I think we must be the most divided support on the planet.
We need to be all pulling in the same direction and I know we all want the same for our club, but how we get there will be the problem, with so many different opinions, I fear it will lead to nothing but infighting.
 

spotlight

Well-Known Member
It's striking how many of us are concerned about more rats getting their hands on shares in the club in years to come. For over a century ownership was at least in the hands of our own.
Until Murray tossed us to the rats it was unthinkable that we would have to guard against that.
I hope Dave King has thought that far ahead in terms of options on who will actually end up with his shares.
I'm sure he has as so far he's been bang on.
 

boracay ranger

Well-Known Member
Without someone with financial interest and business minded head on them put in place could be a real problem. Don’t think this is going to be a good idea
They will also be looking for a wage for doing the job which we will need to fund.
I would hazard a guess that Chris Graham will be proposed for this role.
 

Haining84

Well-Known Member
As a Club1872 member I’m cautiously optimistic about this proposed ‘NeverAgain’ deal.

In practice it makes sense that the supporters group gets a healthy chunk of the club that we own for the rest of time to enable us to always protect the clubs interests.25%+1 in theory is the perfect way to do that.

It’ll be a tough ask as many have pointed out raising that volume of funds but I think It could be done if it’s all laid out,explained and marketed effectively.It’s a bit of a step into the unknown but let’s have some confidence and faith in ourselves as a support.

Critically Club1872 are going to have to up their game and fully set everything out but some of the guff posted in here making out random punters are going to be running about the boardroom making spur of the moment ‘Rangers Da’ calls are as pathetic as they are mental!

If you’re skeptical or against the idea that’s fair enough but some people really should know better.The more extreme stuff is up there with the negative crap posted about Dave King,Paul Murray,the Sons of Struth etc during our battle with the Spivs.

It’s really all over to Club1872 now to step up to the plate,explain to the support in detail how this all works in terms of the mechanics of director appointments,the decision making processes and all the nuts and bolts.

There’s never been a government,fan group,golf club committee or coalition that’s ever automatically unanimously agreed on every issue all of the time so let’s give ourselves a bit of respect and faith as a support,stay open minded and see the plan of attack going forward before we start putting problems up that aren’t there yet.
 

Northhiglander

Well-Known Member
As a Club1872 member I’m cautiously optimistic about this proposed ‘NeverAgain’ deal.

In practice it makes sense that the supporters group gets a healthy chunk of the club that we own for the rest of time to enable us to always protect the clubs interests.25%+1 in theory is the perfect way to do that.

It’ll be a tough ask as many have pointed out raising that volume of funds but I think It could be done if it’s all laid out,explained and marketed effectively.It’s a bit of a step into the unknown but let’s have some confidence and faith in ourselves as a support.

Critically Club1872 are going to have to up their game and fully set everything out but some of the guff posted in here making out random punters are going to be running about the boardroom making spur of the moment ‘Rangers Da’ calls are as pathetic as they are mental!

If you’re skeptical or against the idea that’s fair enough but some people really should know better.The more extreme stuff is up there with the negative crap posted about Dave King,Paul Murray,the Sons of Struth etc during our battle with the Spivs.

It’s really all over to Club1872 now to step up to the plate,explain to the support in detail how this all works in terms of the mechanics of director appointments,the decision making processes and all the nuts and bolts.

There’s never been a government,fan group,golf club committee or coalition that’s ever automatically unanimously agreed on every issue all of the time so let’s give ourselves a bit of respect and faith as a support,stay open minded and see the plan of attack going forward before we start putting problems up that aren’t there yet.
IF club 1872 could produce a coherent document that would convince fans it was a good deal, that would be a start. It isn't just that though, Club 1872 hasn't shown any real ability to use such a power sensibly or coherently. Some its activity and infighting would always be a real concern, they would need to show an ability to move on from that.

I really struggle to see them being able to do so. I hope I am wrong because a good fans movement with a controlling stake in the club would be an insurance against a Whyte situation ever happening again.

However I would also be concerned that the controlling interest would soon be watered down, regular investment would be needed given the need to propose up the day to day finances with loans that are converted into shares. Some understanding of the future funding model would be needed.
 

Mr_Miscellaneous

Well-Known Member

Someone sent me that link in a WhatsApp chat. That's what their lot are making of it.
Hilarious.

Today, their fans were told by their CEO "You do not have a say. You are here to buy shirts and shut up."

The very same day, our majority shareholder said to us "Do you want to own 25% of the club?"
 

Delboy Trotter

Well-Known Member
To those saying £13m would be better going on new shares, that’s surely on the assumption that those running the club just now will issue significant levels of new shares to attract that kind of money.

IMO there won’t be many, if any, new share issues in the near future as it simply dilutes the existing shareholders percentage owned or those shareholders have to cough up again to keep their percentage
 

A1bertz

Well-Known Member
This doesn’t sit right with me, and that’s said as a C1872 member.

C1872 have had years to get themselves organised into something that is a much more professional group, and they have been unable to do so. They’re not fit for the purpose of main shareholder, at least in their current format.
So did the members vote on whether this was a good idea or not?
This reads like it was a bit of a surprise to members?
 

o7o

Well-Known Member
Given our history of infighting, jealousy of so called "blazer chasing" and Club 1872 being a bit of a damp squib so far, this doesn't fill me with confidence.

13 million the club needs now and a potential majority shareholder with no money to put into the club just doesn't make sense.

The club isn't anywhere near breaking even or being self sustaining yet, fan ownership is always a nice headline or day dream for fans, but these are multi million pound companies and need to be run as such.
Thats how I see it... 72 haven't got £13m correct me if I'm wrong.

All I see is a top shareholder with clout to bankroll when needed is now not there
Because Dave King wants the money he initially invested back. And he would rather sell to the fans.

Not sure I would be happy with the club being majority owned by a fans group after the farce that was the Rangers Fans Fighting Fund money being used to build a stand that 99% of contributors would never see never mind use.
72 can be the best guys in the world. But can they bankroll us when needed?
 

cadge_1959

Well-Known Member
Thats how I see it... 72 haven't got £13m correct me if I'm wrong.

All I see is a top shareholder with clout to bankroll when needed is now not there
72 can be the best guys in the world. But can they bankroll us when needed?

They are not going to bankroll the purchase of DK's shares, they will do it by asking members (existing and new) to buy in. I for one, will be more than happy to be involved in this purchase of shares.
 

Wilkinsvolley

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
Club 1872 hasn’t got a cat in hell chance of raising that kind of money in the timescale indicated. It hasn’t got the credibility amongst the fans. They need to reform into an accountable outfit capable of using power wisely.

Can’t see this working without a serious change.
There needs to be a big change in Club1872 but I also think fans need a shift in mindset too to make this work. I include myself in that because I don’t think fan ownership is right for us. The problem is, that’s what we’ve got and also what we need to safeguard the club well into the future. We need to think back to how helpless we were when we were hours away from everything being hived off for paltry loans. It’s so important for club1872 to sort itself transparently and launch a “never again” campaign properly. A board that disintegrates after a couple of differences is utterly pointless and will ensure this fails.
 

Wilkinsvolley

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
Hilarious.

Today, their fans were told by their CEO "You do not have a say. You are here to buy shirts and shut up."

The very same day, our majority shareholder said to us "Do you want to own 25% of the club?"
And they’re raging about it but trying to pretend they’re laughing about it. Luckily they have DD the absentee landlord to ignore anything they want until he kicks the bucket and/or punts his shares and a spiv gets hold of them. Now that will be funny. Probably even funnier than them just being completely ignored by an absentee landlord
 

Crispy Bacon

Well-Known Member
Hilarious.

Today, their fans were told by their CEO "You do not have a say. You are here to buy shirts and shut up."

The very same day, our majority shareholder said to us "Do you want to own 25% of the club?"
Theres a post there saying “i’ve not idea how any football fan can support a club that openly cheated to every success they have”

well I can’t believe any human being would support a club which had and covered up the biggest pedo ring in sporting history... at least you didn’t use EBT’s... oh wait.
 

TwoBadMice

Well-Known Member
I’ll say one thing

The timing of this absolutely stinks UNLESS the plan B becomes the Plan A

Give the taigs the belief we are genuinely struggling for cash for King to shift the sale to an already waiting in the wings investor whom puts in in more than the 13 and the fans group was offered first dibs

I Trust King
 

bazzarm123

New Member
Why would Mr King do this at this time when we are in such a good place. End of season/55 in the bag would have been a much better time to push this through.
I don’t get the need to put uncertainty into the mix at such a crucial stage of the season. Maybe the last few years have me paranoid over any financial dealings within the club...
 

tottie beck

Well-Known Member
I feel very uncomfortable with this. I'm all for fan involvement at board level, but fans having control? I'm not so sure.

My take on this is that DK is looking to the future and realizes this family are not going to maintain his involvement once he shuffles off this mortal coil, and rather than see his family sell his shares to the highest bidder, he is giving the fan base, via club1872, the chance to buy his interest now.

Personally i'd much rather he held onto his shares and made provision to do this in his will, but for whatever reason he's chosen to just sell up now. I cant criticize the man after what he has done for us.

I just hope this works for the best. However, with our record of in-fighting I'm afraid I can only see problems ahead. I pray i'm wrong. Hopefully the 3 bears will continue their involvement with the club and we continue to attract outside investment. That is very important to our success. I figure its going to take an all out effort from club1872 to raise 13 million, so we need additional investment on top of that to continue building the side and be successful.
 

Coatbridge Chancellor

Well-Known Member
Why would Mr King do this at this time when we are in such a good place. End of season/55 in the bag would have been a much better time to push this through.
I don’t get the need to put uncertainty into the mix at such a crucial stage of the season. Maybe the last few years have me paranoid over any financial dealings within the club...
View might be valid if he was asking for it to be done in the next 3 weeks. But there is 3 years to complete this. Little changes in the short term.
 

Coatbridge Chancellor

Well-Known Member
I feel very uncomfortable with this. I'm all for fan involvement at board level, but fans having control? I'm not so sure.

My take on this is that DK is looking to the future and realizes this family are not going to maintain his involvement once he shuffles off this mortal coil, and rather than see his family sell his shares to the highest bidder, he is giving the fan base, via club1872, the chance to buy his interest now.

Personally i'd much rather he held onto his shares and made provision to do this in his will, but for whatever reason he's chosen to just sell up now. I cant criticize the man after what he has done for us.

I just hope this works for the best. However, with our record of in-fighting I'm afraid I can only see problems ahead. I pray i'm wrong. Hopefully the 3 bears will continue their involvement with the club and we continue to attract outside investment. That is very important to our success. I figure its going to take an all out effort from club1872 to raise 13 million, so we need additional investment on top of that to continue building the side and be successful.
Again, important to note that nobody is proposing this. If it happens, fans won't be in control. They (we) would be the largest shareholder, but the club would be run, as it is now, by the board of directors. Yes there would almost certainly be 1 C1872 representative on the board, but it's a far cry from control.
 

govantrueblue

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
Absolutely, @Roscoblue

Is it too much of a stretch to suggest it’s a bit of a kick in the teeth to these wealthy investors who are all supporters?

If I’d invested the sums of money these shareholders had, I’d be concerned that a fans’ group could soon have a majority say in the club I’ve invested in.

The not inconsiderable sum of £13 million would do a lot more good going to the club than any individual. And I say that as a big King fan.

That this fans’ group seems to be poorly run would only add to my concern.

As someone who has contributed each month to Club 1872 for a long time, tonight’s news just doesn’t sit right with me.
For my part, I see it as a proverbial boot in the baws to Park, Letham, Taylor etc.

The aforementioned, will ensure that £8million is in place to see out the season, who's to say they wont ask Club 1872 to stump up the cash if they become the majority shareholder?
 

SenoraCuellar

Well-Known Member
Should Club 1872 not get their house in order and stop the petty squabbling before embarking on this?
Also as others have said £13m would be better in new shares rather than going ro Dave King and I do not mean that in a derogatory way whatsoever to DK.

The last time I read about Club 72 on here had a couple of those within it not flounced off after disagreement? Has all that been resolved? Because no way will this work if there’s no stability.
 

SimonLeBon

Well-Known Member
Personal opinion. Not a good thing. They have been non existent for a while now. Infighting a while back. Nah not for me.
 

deedle

Well-Known Member
There is far too much negativity about this news.

Ultimately, it should mean the club being far more assertive when it comes to issues like the SPFL and Sturgeon.

However, what Club1872 probably needs is a prominent figurehead who commands respect within the support and who’d be prepared to take on a leading role.
 

supersouness

Active Member
To put it bluntly, anyone being negative about this doesn’t have the best interests of the club at heart. We get the club we deserve. Every single one of us should be working towards a greater influence over the club even if it’s just a fiver a month.

Does anyone seriously believe we won’t run into financial difficulties again with the current model? Do you think there will always be a bear with deep pockets and our best interests at heart waiting in the wings to bail us out? If you care so much about the club wouldn’t you want to play a small part in influencing it and protecting it?

Bottom line is it’s the only sustainable model for us. We need to get above 25% and keep it.

In the words of Dave King

I’m really hoping the supporters do get together and understand this is a genuine once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to start to take ownership and be the biggest influencer in the club going forward.

 

Bluedell

Well-Known Member
My head agrees with you but I then ask myself how much would we have paid to have had the ability to veto Craig Whyte on 2011?

I'm not fully formed on what I think about today's news but I think getting to 25% is an opportunity we should take. King is basically telling us if gets hit with a bus his shares could be available to anyone.

Beyond this club 1872 should be a source of additional funding for the club. But unless it is completely revamped and given proper professionalism, corporate nous, and effective communication and marketing, this is doomed to failure. Based on recent activity it is currently unfit for the job in hand.
Let's say we get the 25% through a massive fund raising from the fans. What happens when the club needs £13m a week later and there's a share issue a week later which C1872 is unable to take part in because all their money went externally?

The magical 25% gets reduced to say 15% and we're back to square one.

Alternatively, the club needs the £13m but is unable to get it from shareholders so it has to sell 2 players, which costs us the league, because C1872 put the needs of Dave King before the funding needs of the club.

I'd agree with you on C1872 needing revamped. Have they even had an AGM since inception?
 

GazzaG

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
To put it bluntly, anyone being negative about this doesn’t have the best interests of the club at heart. We get the club we deserve. Every single one of us should be working towards a greater influence over the club even if it’s just a fiver a month.

Does anyone seriously believe we won’t run into financial difficulties again with the current model? Do you think there will always be a bear with deep pockets and our best interests at heart waiting in the wings to bail us out? If you care so much about the club wouldn’t you want to play a small part in influencing it and protecting it?

Bottom line is it’s the only sustainable model for us. We need to get above 25% and keep it.

In the words of Dave King

I’m really hoping the supporters do get together and understand this is a genuine once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to start to take ownership and be the biggest influencer in the club going forward.

Very well put mate.

It's not a fans group taking ownership.
It's not fans making day to day decisions.
It's a shareholding large enough to ensure we never suffer as we have since 2012 again in the future.

The one seat that C1872 will inevitably have on the board of directors will be voted on annually by the membership.
It's not going to be some guy going rogue, he will be answerable to the board and members of C1872.
 

GazzaG

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
Let's say we get the 25% through a massive fund raising from the fans. What happens when the club needs £13m a week later and there's a share issue a week later which C1872 is unable to take part in because all their money went externally?

The magical 25% gets reduced to say 15% and we're back to square one.

Alternatively, the club needs the £13m but is unable to get it from shareholders so it has to sell 2 players, which costs us the league, because C1872 put the needs of Dave King before the funding needs of the club.

I'd agree with you on C1872 needing revamped. Have they even had an AGM since inception?
C1872 would have enough of a say to stop it's shareholding being diluted.
 

Bluedell

Well-Known Member
To put it bluntly, anyone being negative about this doesn’t have the best interests of the club at heart. We get the club we deserve. Every single one of us should be working towards a greater influence over the club even if it’s just a fiver a month.

Does anyone seriously believe we won’t run into financial difficulties again with the current model? Do you think there will always be a bear with deep pockets and our best interests at heart waiting in the wings to bail us out? If you care so much about the club wouldn’t you want to play a small part in influencing it and protecting it?
So someone who believes that C1872 should use its cash to get shares from the club, rather than Dave King, so that the money actually goes to the club, and benefits the club, doesn't have the best interests of the club at heart? Wow.

Yes, we'll run into financial difficulties again, which is why the cash should go to the club and not Dave King.
 

supersouness

Active Member
So someone who believes that C1872 should use its cash to get shares from the club, rather than Dave King, so that the money actually goes to the club, and benefits the club, doesn't have the best interests of the club at heart? Wow.

Yes, we'll run into financial difficulties again, which is why the cash should go to the club and not Dave King.

This is a solution that benefits the club for generations. Dave King’s shareholding gets us where we need to be and would be a fantastic ending to a miserable period in our history that can never be repeated.
 

Bluedell

Well-Known Member
This is a solution that benefits the club for generations. Dave King’s shareholding gets us where we need to be and would be a fantastic ending to a miserable period in our history that can never be repeated.
It might get us there temporarily but there's the potential for it to be diluted 6 months later due to its ongoing funding needs. It's not necessarily a "generations" fix.
 

supersouness

Active Member
It might get us there temporarily but there's the potential for it to be diluted 6 months later due to its ongoing funding needs. It's not necessarily a "generations" fix.
Correct. That’s why there needs to be ongoing, small, monthly contributions from the fans. We all need to feel accountable for this. 50K fans spending £5 a month would generate £3M a year in investment for he club. Who else is going to do that and expect nothing in return? We could all be voting for our board representation.

The alternative paths will create periodic problems and god forbid a repeat of 2012. We can’t pass this up after what we’ve been through.
 

Latest posts

Top