Club 1872 statement

To be brutally honest im a bit p!ssed with this set-up. I think Mr King could have perhaps offered some shares to ordinary punters like me who had invested in the oldco shares and Club Deck Bonds. Not once in all the years have we ever been recognised for the thousands and thousands of pounds we lost, but a face painter that lost £40 is headline news.

i’ll reserve judgement for now but something aint right with this Club 1872 set-up / deal
 
I agree mate, the more I think about it the more I'm coming round to it.
But club 1872 need to sort themselves out, they have around 7k members, getting another 20k will be a big ask I reckon although looking at how many jumped at mygers its maybe feasible.

My worry is that the infighting of the past turns fans away.
I think with this new DK share initiative, C1872 needs a full re-launch, with new directors being appointed. That's not to say current directors can't re-apply, however we must attract new blood and professional Rangers supporters, I still think it can work. Raising £13mil is a huge task, I will probably donate a one off sum as well as continue with my monthly donation.
 
Yeah, its £500 then an ongoing £10 - though you can stop or amend that latter amount. Link to their FAQ:

FAQs | Club 1872

Cheers mate.

Having read through most of this thread I am genuinely undecided if it's a good idea or not! :))

So I'm guessing that if you are a Life Member at the moment that means basically jack all unless you "upgrade" to the Legacy status?
 
Just a thought... I'm not sure we should be buying Dave King's shares before we're a viable, profitable business. I'm not wanting to go down the Mad Phil way of thinking but if we raised the funds now and bought Dave out, we the fans would lose everything if the club was unable to bring the current situation under control.

I'd much rather Dave retained a big financial interest in the club's wellbeing until it's in better health, then we buy in relative safety.
 
Email now received from Club1872. Doesn't say how much they're looking for us to contribute although I haven't logged on to check if it tells you there.

Switch Now to a Legacy Donation
Dear Member,
We would first like to apologise for the delay in you receiving our email announcement regarding the agreement with Dave King. An embargoed press release was leaked early and the level of unexpected traffic prior to our 6pm launch time caused our website to crash. This in turn caused a delay in our email notification to members.
With your incredible support over the past four years, Club 1872 has purchased over 10 million shares in RIFC and invested £1.5m in our club through share purchases.
We are now asking for your help to complete our purchase of Dave King's entire shareholding by becoming a legacy member of Club 1872.
We greatly appreciate your current contribution and if you are not able to switch then your current donation will continue to assist our legacy campaign fund-raising. However, if you are able to commit to a legacy donation as a one-off or over 10 or 25 months, then it will allow us to reach our goal much quicker.
Switching to a legacy donation will also be recognised with a legacy certificate and a lifetime vote on all key decisions of Club 1872 and every vote of the shares held in RIFC by Club 1872.
Existing members who have a direct subscription donation with Club 1872 can switch to a legacy membership by logging into their account and selecting Subscriptions > Clicking your existing active subscription number > Selecting Change Donation from the drop down box and following the on screen instructions.
Existing members who currently donate to Club 1872 via a previous RST or RF subscription can log in to their account and choose Subscriptions > Add Subscription > Select a Legacy Subscription of your choice. Once you have set up your Legacy Donation you can then cancel your existing donation by contacting your bank or card provider or you can email admin@club1872.co.uk and we will cancel it for you.
Thank you for your continued support.
Club 1872
Just got that as well, strange as they apologise for it taking several hours to get this email out yet no mention of why it‘s the first contact in over 4 years.

Not against this but C1872 seriously need to up their game.
 
I’ve been paying a tenner a month since day 1 (and to the RST before that) and happy to do so with entry into draws for directors box tickets etc. But £500 on top? Not from this bear
 
This is the biggest point.
And exactly what will stop me joining.
There in no room for the problems of the past if they go down this route.

Yet here we are, with a supporters group taking on a £13 million challenge and current members haven't been consulted, members don't know how much is in the pot and so on.

It's a great idea I. Principal being horribly mismanaged by people with an obvious self interest.
 
I’ve been paying a tenner a month since day 1 (and to the RST before that) and happy to do so with entry into draws for directors box tickets etc. But £500 on top? Not from this bear
Same as myself mate.
 
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The idea that if C1872 don't buy the shares then DK may sell to an undesirable just to get cash - to me - doesn't make sense.

DK has built something special - to do the above would be to ruin all that. I don't think he would even contemplate doing that.

If anyone deserves his cash back it is DK - it would be a massive pisser that this cash wouldn't go to Rangers FC but I don't think I could grudge him the cash.

In an ideal world C1872 would buy these shares and have a trusted model that could assist in taking Rangers forward into a position where we can run the club in a sustainable manner.

Unfortunately I don't think C1872 are anywhere near ready but what I think counts for nothing as I am nowhere near qualified.
As intimated by King when they are in his kids hands they clearly have no interest and very much could be sold to the highest bidder. As he says he values them at 50p not 20p
 
I’ve been paying a tenner a month since day 1 (and to the RST before that) and happy to do so with entry into draws for directors box tickets etc. But £500 on top? Not from this bear

I must admit it does seem a bit much to me for all those that have contributed faithfully every month or became life members with one off payments for all that not be recognised in some way.
 
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I pay a tenner a month as is. I’m often left frustrated by Club 1872 - most recently their childish tweet to SPFL annoyed me. Before that it was their infighting.

However, Club 1872 absolutely have the Clubs best interest at heart and we have been given the opportunity to do what we were all desperate for when the crooks and scumbags were voting to do whatever they wanted cause they had >75%.

Think of every low point of the past decade. Think of the gazebo on the pitch, the likes of Llambias, that fat leach Sommers, Whyte, Green, Ahmed - the list goes on. The disgraceful Sports Direct deal that was still holding us back recently. A 25% block would allow the fans to stop these things from happening at an early stage.

If we don’t take the opportunity we will never get it again and one day, whether it’s in 10, 20, 30 years, we might regret it.

If you can afford it, I would think of what a great opportunity this is. Play your part in safeguarding the Club forever.
 
I’ve sat and thought about this since last night and I honestly cannot think of how this will turn out well.

We have the RSA, RST, Club1872, Rangers First somebody else tell me if I’ve missed any other ‘fan groups’.

We even have supporters who don’t like other Rangers supporting social media platforms and the people who run them.

How the hell on earth are some peoples ego’s and what length will some supporters/investors go just to get a blue tie in amongst all of this.

I just hope to God that Dave King fully knows all the pro’s and con’s of this and it isn’t a just I’ve done my bit (and them some) now over to other people to take over the mantel.

There won’t be an in between with this project it’ll either be a success or a disaster IMO.

Apart from the current shares what do club1872 actually do with all the money they get every month up to now?
 
Just a thought... I'm not sure we should be buying Dave King's shares before we're a viable, profitable business. I'm not wanting to go down the Mad Phil way of thinking but if we raised the funds now and bought Dave out, we the fans would lose everything if the club was unable to bring the current situation under control.

I'd much rather Dave retained a big financial interest in the club's wellbeing until it's in better health, then we buy in relative safety.
It’s not in your power to decide that. Dave King wants out, he also wants his shareholding to be held intact by Club1872 so that no other millionaire can move in at some stage.
Personally I would be happier if the money raised was going to the club, but this deal does safeguard the club.
 
I’ve been paying a tenner a month since day 1 (and to the RST before that) and happy to do so with entry into draws for directors box tickets etc. But £500 on top? Not from this bear
Me and my son have been paying £40 per month since 1872 started.
We do that so the money can go straight to the club. I can’t understand why 1872 haven’t bought any shares in over 12 months when other shareholders have.
I hope they are not sitting on the money in order to buy DK’s shares.
 
Concerned about past, current and future governance of C1872.

Lot of questions need to be answered before fans are digging into their pockets - during a pandemic - for hundreds or thousands of pounds.
 
I think the intentions are good but owning 25% may not have stopped Murray from taking high risk decisions. Folk with better business brains than 1872 were around Murray and they couldnt stop him. But stopping his shares going to spivs is a big part of this as you say and we should welcome that and sort out the role of 1872 later.
Murray owned 90% + of the club. There was nothing anyone could do. It was his show and everything else was just noise.

The 25% is incredibly important. For instance it would stop the sale of Ibrox or the training ground, if that ever was proposed. It would stop shares being issued to people we don’t want, if a resolution, as has happened recently to exclude Ashley and his holding firms was ever proposed, it would keep the good guys in.

Everyone should get behind this
 
I’ve upped my donated to the £20 p/month for 2 years.
No doubt there will be issues to iron out in the future for Club 1872, who have by and large looked out for the clubs best interest in all their dealings, chasing up Glasgow City Council with regards to the fans zone, having newspapers retract false stories etc. All done on a voluntary basis, for this to work, Club 1872 are going to need to find a level of professionalism not yet reached. However they have no chance of achieving this without significant early uptake. We need to give them the best opportunity to make this work. Without early legs, it’s a non starter really

For me this is vital. Whether it be 15,50 or 100 years in the future, the fans will have a controlling say in the operation of the club (not the football team). Protecting the future generations of bears from having to go through what we all have.
 
This thread and this morning's one about Club 1872 and the Daily Record make for depressing reading. The strength of opposition to fan ownership based on half truths, prejudices and out right misconceptions is staggering. The Rangers Supporters Trust was one of the first in Scotland. It was one of the biggest. It was a great idea let down by poor communication and a fanbase that simply didnt get the concept. From what I've read so far? This is going to be RST mark 2.

It's staggering that a model of football club ownership and governance that works throughout the world is viewed with so much open hostility in Scotland. There is a significant danger that if we miss this opportunity to transform the club then we're sowing the seeds for the next Charles Green.

This needs proper scrutiny and proper debate. Fans need to approach the issue with genuinely open minds. Looking in from the outside? C1872 have a ton of work to do in order to address some very genuine and important concerns and to try and make the case for a fan ownership model that could work at Rangers. That doesnt mean that there isnt a strong case for supporting fan ownership. Given the events at the end of the Murray regime and what happened in it's aftermath, the very least that we need is a proper, informed debate and a decision based on evidence and understanding.
 
I pay a tenner a month as is. I’m often left frustrated by Club 1872 - most recently their childish tweet to SPFL annoyed me. Before that it was their infighting.

However, Club 1872 absolutely have the Clubs best interest at heart and we have been given the opportunity to do what we were all desperate for when the crooks and scumbags were voting to do whatever they wanted cause they had >75%.

Think of every low point of the past decade. Think of the gazebo on the pitch, the likes of Llambias, that fat leach Sommers, Whyte, Green, Ahmed - the list goes on. The disgraceful Sports Direct deal that was still holding us back recently. A 25% block would allow the fans to stop these things from happening at an early stage.

If we don’t take the opportunity we will never get it again and one day, whether it’s in 10, 20, 30 years, we might regret it.

If you can afford it, I would think of what a great opportunity this is. Play your part in safeguarding the Club forever.
100%
I do appreciate people have an issue with it and not everyone is for fan ownership

But we will never have this chance again, in 50 years bears will look back an think, why the hell did you not secure the club when you had the chance, and after everything that happened in the years leading up to this moment.

We need to take this opportunity or just forget it
 
People who have paid £480 already should be granted Legacy membership in my opinion.

I’m not one of those people, I had a lifetime membership of the RST which transferred over to C1872.

What was announced yesterday takes things to a new level. We are talking major amounts of money now. I’d like them to install a figurehead, McCoist for example and board members made up of ex players and maybe a guy like Paul Murray. This should all have been done before the announcement.

I’m not convinced yet, I think it feels rushed and there’s not enough detail.
 
If the supporters through C1872 don't buy DK shares, then I presume they will go on the open market at a higher price. Hopefully then to current board members or new blue blood Rangers men, again as people have pointed out that money isn't going directly into the club. It goes back to DK and his family, each way you look at it the money is his. I would rather purchase those shares with my fellow supporters.
 
So where does the funding come from? The club needs money and you're suggesting C1872 stops it from raising it by issuing shares just to prevent it from being diluted?
The club has to become self sufficient, we simply can't keep relying on loans from directors.
 
Me and my son have been paying £40 per month since 1872 started.
We do that so the money can go straight to the club. I can’t understand why 1872 haven’t bought any shares in over 12 months when other shareholders have.
I hope they are not sitting on the money in order to buy DK’s shares.

And that’s great, but essentially you’ve got nothing to show for it other than an email from C1872 once in a while. If you’re happy to keep giving crack on, but I’m not donating £500 to Dave King (as much as I love the guy).
 
Me and my son have been paying £40 per month since 1872 started.
We do that so the money can go straight to the club. I can’t understand why 1872 haven’t bought any shares in over 12 months when other shareholders have.
I hope they are not sitting on the money in order to buy DK’s shares.

That’s a good point actually, surely this raises questions around their ability to sustain the position if they are able to achieve it in the first place. The position outlined at present falls apart if there is any further dilution of shares, unless of course there is additional funds to maintain the holding.
 
Count me in. Old school RST lifetime member but this is important. It will be an immense effort but if any support knows how risky unwanted shareholdings can be it’s us. Yes I know it would be better to have new investments directly into Rangers but Mr King’s family have no responsibility to us. We need to grasp this opportunity and protect Rangers evermore. £10 a month is affordable in these circumstances.
Put the gripes and politics aside and try to drum up membership amongst friends and family.
 
I'm stuck this morning and really don't know what to do, I've been on Club 1872 since Day 1 unfortunately circumstances then and now means I could only afford the Min. Payment.
The plus points for me are.....
1 - I'm in if it guarantees that no leeches will ever darken our club doorstep again
2 - Club 1872 get their act together for a while now I've been a bit pissed off with them with lack of contact of where we are at or going before yesterday but I usually say to myself fvck it it's only a £5 a month carry on.
3 - I think I can just afford £20 a month for 2 years to get a Legacy in place would never have been able to do it as a one off payment or even over a Year

The against point for me are ......
1 - Will we get better communication because this deal seems to have been done with consultation of a select few
2 - Tied to Point 1 more information on how this came about from the start and what for Club 1872 and Dave King and other Board Members is the end game or the future game.
Only my opinion above cause these things confuse the life out of me
 
Lets be absolutely blunt and brutally honest for a minute, because this is a huge deal for the club and the support and worrying about hurting feelings would be plain stupid.

There is, clearly, an undercurrent from ex RST members on here that this is doomed to fail and a part of that is probably down to C1872 seemingly managing to finally achieve what the RST was set up to do. However, it does not mean they are necessarily wrong.

C1872 as it stands is not even nearly equipped to be asking the support to back it to the tune of £13+ million over 3 years. There is a huge question over the current C1872 board, it's integrity and it's ability to manage affairs as they stand, never-mind the added complications of holding over 25% of a huge institution. We have seen, in the very near past, accusations and resignations, we are only dimly aware of who is on the board, what they are there for, what the membership numbers sit at, how much cash is already in the bank, who performs what role and they are now, out of the blue, asking us to go to the well and give them £13 million to effectively buy a significant stake in the club.


The announcement on their website asks for cash and goes into detail about how to give it, but fails completely to flesh out any of the pertinent questions on how the funds will be administered, what the plans are regarding representation, how the funds will be held in the first place, how the shares will be held after purchase, who will have a say in the running of the group, what the £200k PLUS per year set aside for marketing and expenses is actually going to be spent on, if there is going to be an AGM etc.

Well before they come to us asking for both significant sums of money and the chance to buy a quarter of our club, they absolutely MUST do some important things;

1, Sort out their own board. Be open about what has gone on in the past, answer questions and concerns raised by departing board members, hold elections for new officers and to confirm the current people.

2, Publish a detailed manifesto. Tell us HOW they want the club to be run going forwards. It is all well and good stating that we want fan input, but we need to know how that looks; Do C1872 support regular share issues and intend to raise funds to contribute? Do they want involvement on the Rangers board? Do they want to elect people to sit on both boards? Do they want a say in who manages first team affairs etc etc etc ad infinitum.

3, What governance is there over my donation? C1872 has earned a reputation for a lack of communication, a failure to stick to it's starting principals and a failure to employ decent corporate governance. How on earth can people be expected to put significant money in today when we are STILL non the wiser of what has happened on a couple of occasions with board members?

4, Who at C1872 is qualified to be dealing with negotiations and who is qualified to be running a group that has the ambitions that C1872 does? If the answer is 'nobody', that is fine, but what are the plans to bring in suitably qualified individuals?

5, is C1872 going to drop ALL other concerns and focus as a major shareholder in the club, allowing perhaps for the formation of a genuine supporters group, affiliated but not beholden, to the club?


Clearly just a few concerns in an absolute sea of worries over this.


The idea is fantastic. The ideal is fantastic. The concerns are real and easy to ignore in the rush to achieve fan input. These concerns and a good number more HAVE to be addressed immediately and, in fact, should have been addressed LONG before any announcement or opening up of a page accepting money from people.
 
This isn't the club - this is Dave King.

He wants to disinvest. I doubt Club 1872 have agitated for him to sell. He wants out - they are one of the few buyers. They get first dibs.

The alternatives are Dave King sells to someone else. The other sugar bears on the board will need to hand over cash to cover the season.
The club have so far refused to have a share issue to enable supporters to buy shares. I umderstand that they wish to control who has access to club shares.
I am simply suggesting that the club could facilitate the sale of DKs shares to ST holders. This would ensure that they are not going to enemies of the club.
 
The club has to become self sufficient, we simply can't keep relying on loans from directors.
Agree but there is not a single argument in favour of £13m going to anybody other than the club. The more you think about this the less it makes sense.
 
The club have so far refused to have a share issue to enable supporters to buy shares. I umderstand that they wish to control who has access to club shares.
I am simply suggesting that the club could facilitate the sale of DKs shares to ST holders. This would ensure that they are not going to enemies of the club.
Spot on mate.
 
It is a decent idea on the face of it but the response on here seems lukewarm.

I'm not quite sure i can justify 500 quid in current climate and for c1872 to raise the required funds will be a tall order in my opinion.

Is there a contingency if they don't manage to buy them all? Would king then sell openly or to current board members to keep spivs out?

Anyway, good luck and I will have a wrestle with myself as to whether I donate or not.
 
The club have so far refused to have a share issue to enable supporters to buy shares. I umderstand that they wish to control who has access to club shares.
I am simply suggesting that the club could facilitate the sale of DKs shares to ST holders. This would ensure that they are not going to enemies of the club.

You typically find that major shareholders don't want to have that shareholding diluted too much. Its why you're not seeing Rangers issue new shares. Far easier for the existing majority shareholders to control exactly who has influence at the club.

Can work out well as a means of preventing spivs from buying new shares. Can work out badly by focusing influence with a few key investors.
 
Even though I've put my money into C1872 & the RST before that, I'm not against getting my hand in my pocket again although £500 is a lot particularly in the current climate.

For me though there are still far more questions than answers.
 
The club have so far refused to have a share issue to enable supporters to buy shares. I umderstand that they wish to control who has access to club shares.
Has the club refused to allow C1872 to participate? Does C1872 have the cash to participate? Was Dave King not offering C1872 the opportunity so that they would have more cash to buy shares from him?

I can understand the club not having general share issues due to the costs involved but I can't see them turning down C1872 if it had a few million to invest.
 
The club have so far refused to have a share issue to enable supporters to buy shares. I umderstand that they wish to control who has access to club shares.
I am simply suggesting that the club could facilitate the sale of DKs shares to ST holders. This would ensure that they are not going to enemies of the club.
I'm not sure that is the case

It's Dave's choice what he does with his shares, there are still a lot of posts, he should do this or do that with his shares, it's ok to have an option on what he does with a £13 million asset, but he has decided what he want's to happen and really that is that.
 
Further to my last post, a question that needs to be answered is who exactly decided that buying King's shares was the way forward instead of solely looking to buy new shares and invest direct in the club? C1872 is a members group and this decision was taken without any consultation of the membership. That means that someone, somewhere, took a unilateral decision for the membership involving millions of £ of members money and millions of shares in the club.

That, no matter the intentions or integrity of the people involved, is HUGELY concerning and wide open to corruption.
 
I personally want in and think it's a great idea, but...

1. We have to debate and reason with fans who don't like the idea - no abuse
2. We have to understand their position: £13m NOT going to players, Auchenhowie, scouting etc
3. King was clearly selling these shares to someone, and it is immature to assume that if it wasn't the fans he'd have simply kept them...

This is crucial as for years (way before 2012) the club was badly run, and sailing close to the wind, and we cannot let it happen again. I'd be happy for Club 1872 to be very conservative, and vote with the board, just so long as we cam never, ever, be bought for £1 by a shyster with no money.
 
Couple of things

1) The money's not going to the Club - it already has - other than his initial share purchase, the rest of New Oasis's shares have been purchased which meant the club got that money

2) DK was hafted by Murray, he clearly doesn't want to lose a huge amount of money again,but as he says the shares are being sold for 30p less than market value

3) Club1872 is a members organisation. It doesn't have some nebulous identity, it's mad eup of each and everyone of us who is a subscribing member - don't like the board? then call them to account (There are provisions for EGMs) Stand for the board your self. get active.

I do think some would be happier if King sold to someone else.
 
Couple of things

1) The money's not going to the Club - it already has - other than his initial share purchase, the rest of New Oasis's shares have been purchased which meant the club got that money

2) DK was hafted by Murray, he clearly doesn't want to lose a huge amount of money again,but as he says the shares are being sold for 30p less than market value

3) Club1872 is a members organisation. It doesn't have some nebulous identity, it's mad eup of each and everyone of us who is a subscribing member - don't like the board? then call them to account (There are provisions for EGMs) Stand for the board your self. get active.

I do think some would be happier if King sold to someone else.

I’d be delighted if he just didn’t sell them!
 
Further to my last post, a question that needs to be answered is who exactly decided that buying King's shares was the way forward instead of solely looking to buy new shares and invest direct in the club? C1872 is a members group and this decision was taken without any consultation of the membership. That means that someone, somewhere, took a unilateral decision for the membership involving millions of £ of members money and millions of shares in the club.

That, no matter the intentions or integrity of the people involved, is HUGELY concerning and wide open to corruption.
Did they ask when they bought Ashley's shares?

One of the objectives is "Maintain/grow our shareholding in Rangers International Football Club Plc."

So nothing they are doing is outwith that objective.
 
Couple of things

1) The money's not going to the Club - it already has - other than his initial share purchase, the rest of New Oasis's shares have been purchased which meant the club got that money

2) DK was hafted by Murray, he clearly doesn't want to lose a huge amount of money again,but as he says the shares are being sold for 30p less than market value

3) Club1872 is a members organisation. It doesn't have some nebulous identity, it's mad eup of each and everyone of us who is a subscribing member - don't like the board? then call them to account (There are provisions for EGMs) Stand for the board your self. get active.

I do think some would be happier if King sold to someone else.
Point 3. If this is possible, how was the decision to immediately seek funds for this made without a single word of input from the wider membership? Why is the membership only finding out the direction of travel AFTER the decision has been made to buy existing shares rather than trying to leverage new shares an benefiting the club? Surely as a members organisation, this move should at the very least have been opened for discussion instead of being unilaterally foisted on people?
 
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