Club 1872, their Masterplan & the Daily Record

Roscoblue said:
Neither am I but if a supporter’s group have £13 million pounds to invest, is it not better that they put it into The Club than line the pockets of an individual?

Given Dave King’s love for The Club, I’m sure any ‘random’ would have proper due diligence done to offset any concerns regarding their motives.
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You’re probably right. :)
 
RedWhiteBlue said:
To be fair I think framing "inviting the Daily Record to a press briefing" as "stabbing supporters in the back" is not exactly helpful.

Whether we like it or not there are plenty of Rangers supporters who get their news from the Scottish mainstream media.

Club 1872 is not just representing the interests of supporters on FollowFollow (and we don't even agree on very much here).

I'm not even sure what percentage of our support regularly engage in online forums etc so maybe it's in our interests for the mainstream to carry this story?
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To be clear. My problem is nothing to do with the general mainstream media, I agree there is a place for them, however unfortunate that is.

My problem is, specifically, Club 1872 running to that particular rag having led the ‘Change the Record’ campaign. It’s 2 faced and a slap in the face to supporters that backed their campaign.
 
GovanDerry said:
This thread in itself highlights why it’s not a good idea. Our support cannot agree on anything, never mind the running of the club. I really hope that C1872 don’t go through with the proposed purchase of majority shareholding.
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They won't be remotely close to a majority shareholding mate, with or without King's shares.
 
Dave King is - on the face of it - doing a very noble thing, but Club 1872 in its current form won’t get the job done imho.

I’m certainly not going to ‘invest’ in a company that has had infighting, directors resigning and doubts raised over its corporate governance as recently as September.

Club 1872 needs to embark on an extensive and very public election process that is going to see 5 top quality directors with a wide range of skill sets appointed to its board.
 
Club 1872 being a majority shareholder dosen’t fill me with confidence.They should try and get their own house in order before anything else.
 
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If fans raised 13M, and wanted to invest in the club by buying shares, there would have to be a new share issue.

A new share issue would dilute the percentage of shares, and I reckon £13M would only buy you in the region of 7%-8% of the club, maybe even less.
 
Roscoblue said:
After yesterday’s announcement by Club 1872 that they are looking to purchase a significant shareholding without giving a penny of the money to The Club I didn’t think they could surprise me more.

However having learned that they invited the Daily Record to their press/media briefing I am
Utterly astonished. Club 1872 have, for years, fought an honourable and justifiable fight against said arse rag and urged its members and the wider Rangers support to boycott it. Those actions yesterday are a complete slap in the face to everyone of us that have backed their fight.
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Rangers jumping in to bed with the record certainly didnt do much to help.
 
I'd be extremely surprised if C1872 do actually manage to reach such an ambitious financial target.

Most of the sources they will be seeking money from are the same as those that would have ordinarily been using that money to buy tickets, goods, strips, etc, where the dosh goes pretty well straight into the Club itself.

However, I could see C1872 raising a fair bit and with what resources they already have, buying a sizeable chunk of Dave King's shares (if that is on the table).

But this time, if they happen to reach a threshold percentage of shares, they must INSIST upon Board representation.
I know that there's infighting and so on, but we've seen again this week how Rangers and its fans can be smeared (without any reason at all !!), without defence from the Club.
Time for our Club to defend those who stood by it when they were needed, and sadly it really does look as if it will take direct fans' representation/delegation to make that happen..
 
Roscoblue said:
After yesterday’s announcement by Club 1872 that they are looking to purchase a significant shareholding without giving a penny of the money to The Club I didn’t think they could surprise me more.

However having learned that they invited the Daily Record to their press/media briefing I am
Utterly astonished. Club 1872 have, for years, fought an honourable and justifiable fight against said arse rag and urged its members and the wider Rangers support to boycott it. Those actions yesterday are a complete slap in the face to everyone of us that have backed their fight.
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You are looking for negatives my friend.

Strange.
 
This didn't need a new thread.

OP could have put their post in the already running Club1872 thread.
 
One day after the announcement and already folk are talking about being ‘stabbed in the back’. This is why I worry about fan ownership, we can’t agree what day of the week it is.
 
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Scooby said:
If fans raised 13M, and wanted to invest in the club by buying shares, there would have to be a new share issue.

A new share issue would dilute the percentage of shares, and I reckon £13M would only buy you in the region of 7%-8% of the club, maybe even less.
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thats not true. If there was a £13m share issue assuming at 20 pence a share and all of that was taken by Club 1872, there shareholding would increase to around 20.5% shareholing and the club would get £13m.

Dave Kings shareholding would reduce from 20% to 15%.

Alternatively buying from the DK, Club 1872 would go up to 25% and King to 0% and Club would get £0.

I know which one I would prefer
 
Theoretically I would support this as a good thing for a fans group to have a decent shareholding to help prevent what happened to us ever happening again.
I have been paying into Club 1872 since it's inception,but recently I have been thinking about stopping my contributions.
The reasons being were the infighting,rumours of money being spent inappropriately e.g. company cars and poor communication with punters like me.
I will continue my contributions for the meanwhile but for Club 1872 to get another 20000 fans on board there needs to be much better PR,clear accountability of where the money is going and a recognisable and trusted figurehead.To me the current board,although they may be good people,are pretty anonymous to me.
 
The OP asks a reasonable question but it's a classic example of why this whole adventure is destined to fail. The whole thing will grind to a halt and end up in gridlock due to constant finger pointing and bickering, claim and counterclaim will be flying about Social Media nonstop.

King has basically given C1872 first option on his shares, no legally binding guarantee from what I can see?

I expect C1872 will buy some of the shares and increase their shareholding which is no bad thing but that King will end up selling the majority elsewhere.

The Rangers supports strength is having an unrivaled passion and loyalty towards the club. It is not and never will be good at establishing harmony and cohesion across the support. We should stick to what we're good at.
 
Mr Wilton said:
More shares would need to be issued for that. It’s clear that King now feels he has done his job and now wants to leave. Fair enough, in order to do so he needs to sell his shares, other than punting them to some investor he’s looking to a fans group. C1872 bought Ashley’s shares, it gave the club nothing but got rid of him! As o say I’m sceptical about C1872 increasing their influence, there has been times they’ve not been ran well, but I don’t question their commitment to us and I think that’s why King is looking to them.
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Totally agree with what you say, I would rather the fans held onto Dave King’s shares. The alternative doesn’t bear thinking off. He puts his shares on the open market, they are bought by an Ashley, Green, Whyte.
Much rather we had a say in who runs our club.
 
Scooby said:
The only down side for me is we are losing a man of Dave Kings calibre from the club. His shrewd and incisive mind will be a huge miss.

This is the way I see it, correct me if I am wrong.

Dave King could recoup on the region of £25M if the shares were sold for market price. That money goes to Dave King, not the club. DK has opted to give the best and largest Rangers fans group a chance to buy his shares at a discount of roughly half prices. This is a no brainer if sufficient funds can be raised.

I cannot understand why people would be against this. For years there has been calls for more fan ownership, and when a genuine chance arises people don't want it because a few people have fallen out with each other?

Every other large fan base would be exactly the same, its the nature of people. Surely we can organise and overcome a few minor squabbles and grasp this fantastic chance to have a real say in how our great club is run.
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Do you think DK could still stay on?
I think that would be the perfect end solution
 
Colinrfc2 said:
Do you think that they should gift the club the money without anything in return?
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It's a difficult question, I think.

The idea of supporters donating to the club as a "gift" seems like a good one. Especially in Scotland where we are miles ahead of all the teams, except the obvious one.

After all, we talk about basically wanting a millionaire/billionaire investor to fund transfers and improvements and whatnot.

At best any rewards or returns on fan investment would not be in line with the value of the investment. Donate £500 and you might get a nice scarf or Tshirt or something.

I think that realistically for any money a supporters group gives to the club they should get in return what any regular investor would get. Not sure how this would work on an individual basis though.

If some rich billionaire decided they wanted to give Rangers £500 million over 10 years what would they realistically be getting in return for that?

50k supporters giving the club £50 a year would be 2.5 million to the club.
50k supporters giving the club £1,000 a year would be 50 million to the club.

What would we get in return for Rangers getting an extra 50 million investment as a "gift" every year?
The league would be ours for a start.

That's a completely delusional fantasy of course but I think it's valid to ask why we only think of "getting something in return" as a purely material thing.

As a support that puts us in a strange spot.
We want success on the pitch.
Success on the pitch costs money.
However, we don't want it to be our money.

I think a fan investor group is the best idea for sure.
The problem is that we would be pretty much gifting the club money with potential successes on the pitch being our "return".
 
Bigfc said:
thats not true. If there was a £13m share issue assuming at 20 pence a share and all of that was taken by Club 1872, there shareholding would increase to around 20.5% shareholing and the club would get £13m.

Dave Kings shareholding would reduce from 20% to 15%.

Alternatively buying from the DK, Club 1872 would go up to 25% and King to 0% and Club would get £0.

I know which one I would prefer
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The shares are valued at roughly 50p right now. So buying £13M of shares right now gets you roughly 10% of the club.

If there is a new issue, the percentage would be lower depending on the number of shares.

Dave King is basically gifting 10% of the club to the fans, if they put up the other 10%.
 
Colinrfc2 said:
Do you think that they should gift the club the money without anything in return?
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I understand its a complicated question. But to put it simply, my understanding that its supporters money so surely success on the pitch would be the reward?
 
Scooby said:
The shares are valued at roughly 50p right now. So buying £13M of shares right now gets you roughly 10% of the club.

If there is a new issue, the percentage would be lower depending on the number of shares.

Dave King is basically gifting 10% of the club to the fans, if they put up the other 10%.
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Why would the shares be worth 50 pence ? the last share issue they were issued at 20 pence and according to JP jenkins the last match was at 18 pence. DK saying the shares are worth 50 pence doesnt mean that they are.
 
I think the first step is to get our shit in order.

Create a proper structure and hierarchy.

Get folks in Non-Exec roles, with real and credible business experience in at the top.

Pay them a fee.

It has to be someone like Johnston or King, imo. A fan, but a businessman who can galvanise our support and lay out credible plans.
 
Don’t get me wrong. Club 1872 seem to be willing to fight anything that comes our way, however, the only thing that scares me about this (and it’s not just because its c1872, this applies to any fan ownership group) is that Dave King has been pivotal in many of the key moments over the last few years, on top of that he is very well connected. Will we still have the same with c1872? I hope that if this does go ahead, there isn’t much logistical changes and King and his investors are still engaging with the board in the way they previously had.
 
I think 1872 need a figure head that we all can get behind, let’s say a Paul Murray type, who has the club at their best interest and is trustworthy. I feel that it would be a hard push to get to the 13M and whatever is left I can see DK selling the rest to a fellow shareholder.
 
We’ve been members of the trust and Club 1872, and the big problem the former, MUST adapt to a more Professional way for it to be run!
 
I think this is a sign of the problems we face with fan ownership. Absolutely everything is turned into a problem. Some people will be annoyed at this and start an anti 1872 campaign on the back of it. Something else will happen that annoys some more people and they’ll join that campaign. Then something wise and something else. Before we know it they’re enemy number one.
 
skorn said:
I'd be extremely surprised if C1872 do actually manage to reach such an ambitious financial target.

Most of the sources they will be seeking money from are the same as those that would have ordinarily been using that money to buy tickets, goods, strips, etc, where the dosh goes pretty well straight into the Club itself.

However, I could see C1872 raising a fair bit and with what resources they already have, buying a sizeable chunk of Dave King's shares (if that is on the table).

But this time, if they happen to reach a threshold percentage of shares, they must INSIST upon Board representation.
I know that there's infighting and so on, but we've seen again this week how Rangers and its fans can be smeared (without any reason at all !!), without defence from the Club.
Time for our Club to defend those who stood by it when they were needed, and sadly it really does look as if it will take direct fans' representation/delegation to make that happen..
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Are you talking about nippy saying Rangers in her briefing?
 
Roscoblue said:
Then more shares could be issued. If King feels its time to go I get that and will be thankful, forever, for what he done but for a Rangers supporters group to choose to pay £13m to an individual rather than directly to The Club doesn’t sit at all well with me.

Buying Ashley’s shares most definitely didn’t give ‘nothing’ to The Club.
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King wnts out, for whatever reason. What happens to his shares?
 
Mr Wilton said:
If they want to increase their shareholding they need to buy shares off shareholders, that is an unfortunate consequence. If they want to increase their influence then they cannot continue to fight everyone, I am sceptical about the increase in shareholding it seems they could not agree on the colour of shite at times. However inviting the Record even with them being hated is a positive step for me. A step that they are serious and stepping up maybe, not perpetually fighting with media
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Sorry mistake
 
I'm feeling a bit uneasy about it to be honest.
The fact Club 1872 feel it's acceptable to invite those bastards to the
briefing, quite frankly disgusts me.
 
Alex Venters said:
Any kind of fan ownership would be an unmitigated disaster.
A rare error of judgement here from Dave King.
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Worse than Ashley or The Custodian owning us?
Anyway it seems if they raise the money Club1872 would have around 25% of the shareholding in the club. Hardly ownership.
 
How can they give £13m to the club in new shares though?

They’d have to rely on current board issuing that amount worth which I don’t see happening as it would mean Park etc would have their share % reduced or they’d have to fork out millions to keep their %
 
Bigfc said:
thats not true. If there was a £13m share issue assuming at 20 pence a share and all of that was taken by Club 1872, there shareholding would increase to around 20.5% shareholing and the club would get £13m.

Dave Kings shareholding would reduce from 20% to 15%.

Alternatively buying from the DK, Club 1872 would go up to 25% and King to 0% and Club would get £0.

I know which one I would prefer
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But there wouldn't be another share issue for the public. Current shareholders would vote against it, why dilute their own %.
Dave King has a preferred buyer in C1872, if they fail to raise the funds he either keeps his shares or sells them to another investor. The club wouldn't get additional money anyway.

Turkeys don't vote for Christmas.
 
Roscoblue said:
Then more shares could be issued. If King feels its time to go I get that and will be thankful, forever, for what he done but for a Rangers supporters group to choose to pay £13m to an individual rather than directly to The Club doesn’t sit at all well with me.

Buying Ashley’s shares most definitely didn’t give ‘nothing’ to The Club.
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So you are happy for someone else to buy Kings shares and have a huge percentage ownership of the Club? I'm not against that but I don't see anyone stepping forward to hand King that sort of money. I'm sure he will have already approached current investors and been turned down because they are already keeping the Club funded. That could lead to a situation where King, or more likely his family, simply look to shift the shares to whoever will buy in 3 years time. And that may not be a good thing, depending on the buyer of course.

On your original point, was there a media briefing/press conference? Or was it simply a release of the info via Press Release?
 
Same as many here, been paying £11.25 since the beginning have no idea what has become of that in all honesty, I take it was used to buy shares.
If I go for the legacy does my monthly sub go up to £20 or is it £20 + my £11.25.
When I depart this mortal coil hopefully not any time soon :D is their anything to leave to my family like a share certificate?
 
I think I would prefer DK to sell his shares among the other shareholders. Rangers are too big as a football club and a business for the likes of Club 1872 to have such influence.
 
insanicdrunk said:
King wnts out, for whatever reason. What happens to his shares?
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I have no issue with King wanting to sell his shares, he’ll know better than any of us of the many ways to do that.

My issue is Club 1872 not offering the £13m of investment to The Club and more so, in keeping with the thread l, their olive branch to the Daily Record.
 
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