Club statement - the current circumstances and increased speculation surrounding the ongoing impact of the Coronavirus pandemic on Scottish football

gmbear said:
Yes, I think we are, Dambuster72.

Where I think we differ, looking at our posts, is how this season is resolved: you spoke of completing this season while I think rescheduling fixtures to a later date jeopardises next season when a full 20/21 season should be the priority of Associations and governing bodies.

Null and void won't happen, I don't think, as some competitions have been completed, e.g. our League Cup. The season not voided then, but competitions that are ongoing, e.g. league campaigns should be declared incomplete and the focus shift to next season.

That leaves the business side of things, i.e. who pays what to whom. And I have no idea how that will play out, if I'm honest.
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An incomplete season brings the same legal minefield as a voided one. TV money cuts, Euro spots up in the air, how do you divvy up prize money?

I don't see the point in prioritising next season over finishing this, in the circumstances. A few things could be done to shorten the 20/21 season: Cancel League Cup or both domestic cup competitions to reduce fixtures and cancel the winter break.
 
DamBuster72 said:
Null and void throws up more questions than answers.

TV money will be cut for failing to fulfill contractual obligations, no way of determining European places for season 20/21. It's not going to happen.
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I'm still struggling to understand what the difference is between null and void, and declaring titles, promotion and relegation as things stand. Both involve no more games getting played, so surely from the perspective of sponsors and TV companies etc they create the same 'problems'?

Given most are accepting that the season can't be concluded, if it's a choice between null and void, and calling as is, I don't see how 'null and void' is less acceptable and would cause more pain than calling it?

I've yet to see anyone explain this.
 
Brahim Hemdani's Granny said:
I'm still struggling to understand what the difference is between null and void, and declaring titles, promotion and relegation as things stand. Both involve no more games getting played, so surely from the perspective of sponsors and TV companies etc they create the same 'problems'?

Given most are accepting that the season can't be concluded, if it's a choice between null and void, and calling as is, I don't see how 'null and void' is less acceptable and would cause more pain than calling it?

I've yet to see anyone explain this.
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Of those 2 outcomes then I agree Null & Void is preferable but I don't agree with you that the season can't be concluded.

German players are already back training. this week, the remaining games could be played over a 4 week period and the start for next season delayed.

The narrative being spun that it's call as is or void is backing us into a corner that we don't need to be backed into.
 
Season should be declared null and void and the prize money should be dished out evenly throughout the leagues....clubs all over the country desperately need the cash boost to tide them over ffs
 
sw26 said:
Someone needs to explain that one to me.

Even if it is 11-1, there is only one team who are disadvantaged by the taking of an an advance of the prize money off the table, as it takes away leverage to drive through a tainted title.

Why would anyone else vote against? Situation in a financial sense would be broadly as it would be if the ‘end of season’ proposal was voted through, but with the possibility (however slim) that the season could be finished at some point.

There is no sensible logic behind voting against that.
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I'm sure you see how this pans out? Firstly, not saying this is what will happen, and I don't even know for sure if the 11-1 thing is correct, but its what the Record implies with that 'near unanimous' comment.

The Dhims will vote against our proposal as a matter of course. IF it needs an 11-1 vote from Premier League clubs then they only need 1 more to scupper it. My mate is a Motherwell fan. He is desperate for them to finish third, so they get their single away game in Europe :rolleyes:. He will happily see his club vote to award the Dhims the title if it secures their third place. He's not fussed about Rangers proposal and he's not fussed about playing out the remainder of the season.

Narrow-minded? Illogical? You bet - but this is Scottish football.
 
Blu_ultra said:
Clever. Let's face it, every club in the land needs that money yesterday. The Sheep, Killie, you name it. Our league is unusual in that gate money is what keeps teams afloat. Not having this cash flow will put teams under. They need an instant cash boost and what we have done is noble.

Simply, we cannot entertain the following:

Celtic handed a title, incomplete - come on, this is sport.

The league being played more than a few weeks after originally planned. We (Scottish Football) need to be able to sell tickets for 21/22. If we can't, the league is done. Scottish football isn't Spain or England. We cannot survive on TV money. There are also major issues with player contracts ending, holidays, stadium refurbs etc.

Here's the deal. Release the money now, shared equally. Wait until official confirmation feom UEFA and the season gets voided. All clubs plan for the usual August start, so can sell season tickets. Cash flow for most back to normal, hopefully. This isn't a battle to stop Celtic, it's a battle to save the game in Scotland.
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If this proposal was put forward by any other club than rangers, it would be positively received, the frothing at the mouth and bumping of the gums of other fans cos it the ranjurs is so predictable... These clubs need money now ..42 clubs sharing out approximately 25million instead of the current pyramid system is fair. But Scottish football club have always voted for self preservation. Ie Aberdeen voting with celtic when we were in the bottom tier....
 
Glasgowisblue said:
If this proposal was put forward by any other club than rangers, it would be positively received, the frothing at the mouth and bumping of the gums of other fans cos it the ranjurs is so predictable... These clubs need money now ..42 clubs sharing out approximately 25million instead of the current pyramid system is fair. But Scottish football club have always voted for self preservation. Ie Aberdeen voting with celtic when we were in the bottom tier....
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I don't think Rangers proposal envisages paying out the prize fund equally amongst 42 clubs mate. I suspect its more likely to be pay out a sum, say 80% for debate's sake, of the cash you would have received for finishing in your current position. Then we can talk about titles/relegation/restructuring at a later date when things are clearer.
 
Surely if prize money is to be distributed it cannot be on full season terms.

If 9 games remaining then 1/4 of the prize pot should be shared equally.

Obviously that would cost Celtic and us a few quid but a fairer outcome.
 
Valley Bluenose said:
I don't think Rangers proposal envisages paying out the prize fund equally amongst 42 clubs mate. I suspect its more likely to be pay out a sum, say 80% for debate's sake, of the cash you would have received for finishing in your current position. Then we can talk about titles/relegation/restructuring at a later date when things are clearer.
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Maybe not equally but certainly a lot more fairer and supportive than the current pyramid system..
 
Glasgowisblue said:
Maybe not equally but certainly a lot more fairer and supportive than the current pyramid system..
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Giving other clubs a percentage of what they were due, and doing so now is fair enough by me. I have no interest in any of them. Giving the club at the bottom of League 2 near £600,000 instead of the regular £45,000 they could expect holds no appeal for me. Nor does the thought of Rangers share dropping from circa £2,5000,000 (for second) to that same near £600,000 that Brechin City would get. F*ck that.

If Rangers were to suggest doing so it would be a bribe. Nothing more, nothing less. It certainly wouldn't be because we think its for the good of the Scottish game. Those in the lower leagues have had their share of the blue pound. I don't see them all rushing to support us as a result. Sod the lot of them.
 
i presume this has been posteD?

www.thetimes.co.uk

Premier League clubs to receive part of their prize money in advance to ease cash flow crisis

Premier League clubs are to be handed millions of pounds that had been due at the end of the season to ease their cash flow crisis caused by the coronavirus pandemic.An agreement was made by the 20 clubs last week to release some of the funds that would normally be based on merit payments which vary
www.thetimes.co.uk www.thetimes.co.uk

Premier League clubs to receive part of their prize money in advance to ease cash flow crisis

this announcement couldnt have came at a better time ... Rangers should somehow captalize on it - "SPFL should follow EPL lead..."
 
Valley Bluenose said:
Giving other clubs a percentage of what they were due, and doing so now is fair enough by me. I have no interest in any of them. Giving the club at the bottom of League 2 near £600,000 instead of the regular £45,000 they could expect holds no appeal for me. Nor does the thought of Rangers share dropping from circa £2,5000,000 (for second) to that same near £600,000 that Brechin City would get. F*ck that.

If Rangers were to suggest doing so it would be a bribe. Nothing more, nothing less. It certainly wouldn't be because we think its for the good of the Scottish game. Those in the lower leagues have had their share of the blue pound. I don't see them all rushing to support us as a result. Sod the lot of them.
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The money they receive will be appropriate to the division they are in Brechin ain't getting £600k.....
 
Glasgowisblue said:
The money they receive will be appropriate to the division they are in Brechin ain't getting £600k.....
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I'm not sure what you are proposing here since you started about sharing the pot amongst the 42 clubs. The inference being shared equally but that's clearly not what you meant. Some have been suggesting that but I think its madness. My own proposal would be to give them most of what they are due for their current position. If we wanted to do something different you could consider splitting the cash pot available to each division equally within that division. So Premier League pot split 12 ways, Championship 10 ways etc in equal shares. Is that what you mean? If so, I don't have a huge issue with that but let's see where our current proposal goes first.
 
Valley Bluenose said:
I'm not sure what you are proposing here since you started about sharing the pot amongst the 42 clubs. The inference being shared equally but that's clearly not what you meant. Some have been suggesting that but I think its madness. My own proposal would be to give them most of what they are due for their current position. If we wanted to do something different you could consider splitting the cash pot available to each division equally within that division. So Premier League pot split 12 ways, Championship 10 ways etc in equal shares. Is that what you mean? If so, I don't have a huge issue with that but let's see where our current proposal goes first.
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Is it not a couple of million we would be due for 2nd? I'm not sure we can afford/or want to dilute that mate, we have players on deferred wages remember.
 
BrunoBear said:
Is it not a couple of million we would be due for 2nd? I'm not sure we can afford/or want to dilute that mate, we have players on deferred wages remember.
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Its circa £2.5m. I prefer to go with the share of prize money for existing position as the initial measure. The other option - if we needed to bribe folk to come along with us, and that's what it would be - would be to offer the 12 way split of the Premier League pot. Would see us lose circa £600k (of £2.5m) I think and the Dhims about double that. As I said, not necessarily my preferred option and it would see Motherwell and the Sheep lose out a bit as well so unlikely to garner support.
 
DamBuster72 said:
They have them up to 2022 I believe as it stands. Even if they gifted away the £726m that they are allegedly contractually due if the season is ended now, there are no guarantees it would see them be favoured in the next negotiation. If Amazon or BT offered more money at that point, their moment of altruism would be long forgotten and it would go down to who shows the most money.

The government are dictating our movements until the end of April, not beyond that, which is why any decision at this point by the EPL to abandon the rest of the fixture list will see them in breach.

Anyway I've said my piece on the matter. It's been reported in various papers eg. The Athletic, Birmingham Mail. If people disagree and think Sky Sports won't call their money in then I'll agree to disagree. For me it would be a lovely gesture but not how business generally works.
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If I could take issue with one point,"the Govt dictating our movement until the end of April". I think that the Government are hoping against hope that the end of April sees the end of this Covid thingy. A lot of studies I have seen say that the end of May is more hopeful. As far as I am concerned, The end of April is the Government trying to buy time.
I ain't coming out of my igloo until I can walk into the bar and have a pint without seeing the barmaid wearing a mask. I am at risk if I open the bedroom window seemingly.
 
whitbyontbear said:
If I could take issue with one point,"the Govt dictating our movement until the end of April". I think that the Government are hoping against hope that the end of April sees the end of this Covid thingy. A lot of studies I have seen say that the end of May is more hopeful. As far as I am concerned, The end of April is the Government trying to buy time.
I ain't coming out of my igloo until I can walk into the bar and have a pint without seeing the barmaid wearing a mask. I am at risk if I open the bedroom window seemingly.
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Without diverting the thread for too long, how are things in Canada mate? We are supposed to visit Toronto/Niagara Falls towards the end of May but, in my m ind, I've written it off because we will most likely still be in lockdown here in UK. Whats the prognosis in Canada?
 
Valley Bluenose said:
I'm not sure what you are proposing here since you started about sharing the pot amongst the 42 clubs. The inference being shared equally but that's clearly not what you meant. Some have been suggesting that but I think its madness. My own proposal would be to give them most of what they are due for their current position. If we wanted to do something different you could consider splitting the cash pot available to each division equally within that division. So Premier League pot split 12 ways, Championship 10 ways etc in equal shares. Is that what you mean? If so, I don't have a huge issue with that but let's see where our current proposal goes first.
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Yeah an equal share for each division, whether it is 1 million for each spfl club, 500k for each championship club
100k then 50k to the equivalent of whatever the final pot is.
 
Rangers Proposal (apparently):

Hard to argue against it and it would allow clubs at all levels of the Scottish professional game to take advantage of gate receipts in the unlikely event that the season does resume.

“That the board of the company be authorised and instructed to make payment to the member clubs of the league of loans equal to the amount that such member clubs would become entitled to if the Scottish Football Leagues were completed and each member club’s position in the completed league was the same as the position in which that member club is presently.


“Such loans to be provided without the payment of interest or fees to the league by the member clubs and to be made forthwith on the passing of this resolution and to continue to be available until the league determines that a final allocation of the payments to member clubs in respect of season 2019/2020 can be made.


“On such determination by the league, member clubs shall be entitled to effect repayment by written confirmation to the league that the loan provided to that member club may be set against the equivalent amount of the repayment to be made to such member club on determination.”
 
jaws73 said:
Rangers Proposal (apparently):

Hard to argue against it and it would allow clubs at all levels of the Scottish professional game to take advantage of gate receipts in the unlikely event that the season does resume.

“That the board of the company be authorised and instructed to make payment to the member clubs of the league of loans equal to the amount that such member clubs would become entitled to if the Scottish Football Leagues were completed and each member club’s position in the completed league was the same as the position in which that member club is presently.


“Such loans to be provided without the payment of interest or fees to the league by the member clubs and to be made forthwith on the passing of this resolution and to continue to be available until the league determines that a final allocation of the payments to member clubs in respect of season 2019/2020 can be made.


“On such determination by the league, member clubs shall be entitled to effect repayment by written confirmation to the league that the loan provided to that member club may be set against the equivalent amount of the repayment to be made to such member club on determination.”
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Ive just taken a migraine trying to fathom this out . Loans ? Why not just pay out the prize money ?
 
4ladsHAD said:
Ive just taken a migraine trying to fathom this out . Loans ? Why not just pay out the prize money ?
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If the league resumes them the prize money may change if positions change.

If it doesn't resume then there is a potential clawback for any money witheld from tv / sponsors that diminishes the prize pot.

For me they would be better paying out on the worst position a team could finish then making up the rest after the season is closed one way or another.
 
Del said:
If the league resumes them the prize money may change if positions change.

If it doesn't resume then there is a potential clawback for any money witheld from tv / sponsors that diminishes the prize pot.

For me they would be better paying out on the worst position a team could finish then making up the rest after the season is closed one way or another.
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I find it difficult that we would go for anything as complicated . It’s time for us to go to England , Scottish football is done .
 
Valley Bluenose said:
Without diverting the thread for too long, how are things in Canada mate? We are supposed to visit Toronto/Niagara Falls towards the end of May but, in my m ind, I've written it off because we will most likely still be in lockdown here in UK. Whats the prognosis in Canada?
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Watching Trudeau right now and if you can postpone your trip until July or August, I would. We have had to postpone our Golden Wedding party in May as well as a trip to BC.Trudeau has said nothing as usual. He is waffling on about, "as long it takes". I'll send you a message after Doug Ford this afternoon so as we don't upset the folk wanting to see pics of women in their underwear.
 
whitbyontbear said:
Watching Trudeau right now and if you can postpone your trip until July or August, I would. We have had to postpone our Golden Wedding party in May as well as a trip to BC.Trudeau has said nothing as usual. He is waffling on about, "as long it takes". I'll send you a message after Doug Ford this afternoon so as we don't upset the folk wanting to see pics of women in their underwear.
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Ha ha, thanks mate. If I get the option I’d probably go for a refund and then plan a visit next year instead. If not, then as late in the Summer as I can. Thanks for the info.

Let the thread get back to ‘raging’.:)

PS. I’m happy to take pics of women in underwear as well.:))
 
Valley Bluenose said:
Giving other clubs a percentage of what they were due, and doing so now is fair enough by me. I have no interest in any of them. Giving the club at the bottom of League 2 near £600,000 instead of the regular £45,000 they could expect holds no appeal for me. Nor does the thought of Rangers share dropping from circa £2,5000,000 (for second) to that same near £600,000 that Brechin City would get. F*ck that.

If Rangers were to suggest doing so it would be a bribe. Nothing more, nothing less. It certainly wouldn't be because we think its for the good of the Scottish game. Those in the lower leagues have had their share of the blue pound. I don't see them all rushing to support us as a result. Sod the lot of them.
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I'd go further mate, let the Fu©kers that are in trouble go to the wall, see how well their sell out Saturday insulated them? FU©K THE LOT OF THEM!
 
Valley Bluenose said:
Its circa £2.5m. I prefer to go with the share of prize money for existing position as the initial measure. The other option - if we needed to bribe folk to come along with us, and that's what it would be - would be to offer the 12 way split of the Premier League pot. Would see us lose circa £600k (of £2.5m) I think and the Dhims about double that. As I said, not necessarily my preferred option and it would see Motherwell and the Sheep lose out a bit as well so unlikely to garner support.
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Don't often disagree with you VB. But your of target here.

Our aim is to stop them getting this title, for me it tops everything. It would only cost us £600k.

So what if it's seen as a bribe to others in the top flight. We will still be the most demonised (ergo hated) team in the league regardless of whether or not the season is null and void or otherwise.

Giving some teams that hate us a greater share of the overall prize pot is the lesser of two evils - they cannot win a league that is not completed. There is no sporting merit in that at all.
 
George Goudie said:
Don't often disagree with you VB. But your of target here.

Our aim is to stop them getting this title, for me it tops everything. It would only cost us £600k.

So what if it's seen as a bribe to others in the top flight. We will still be the most demonised (ergo hated) team in the league regardless of whether or not the season is null and void or otherwise.

Giving some teams that hate us a greater share of the overall prize pot is the lesser of two evils - they cannot win a league that is not completed. There is no sporting merit in that at all.
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I‘m not entirely against a 12 way equal split but, as I’ve pointed out in another thread, it’s not just us and the Dhims who would lose out its the entire top four, so Motherwell and Aberdeen right now. It would be very difficult to get support for that through. Near impossible if it requires an 11-1 vote and just very difficult if it requires 9-3.
 
George Goudie said:
Don't often disagree with you VB. But your of target here.

Our aim is to stop them getting this title, for me it tops everything. It would only cost us £600k.

So what if it's seen as a bribe to others in the top flight. We will still be the most demonised (ergo hated) team in the league regardless of whether or not the season is null and void or otherwise.

Giving some teams that hate us a greater share of the overall prize pot is the lesser of two evils - they cannot win a league that is not completed. There is no sporting merit in that at all.
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Exactly.

There's a reason our club are the most demonised in the land and it's because we've sat back and allowed our previous misdemeanors to be greatly exacerbated by the club like no other.

We oppose the notion of awarding them this title with everything we have and by any means necessary. Our reputation with the rest of the club's is already in tatters thanks to the efforts of a more determined enemy. Are we really going to allow this to continue?......it's all over for this bear if that's the case and I do not say that lightly.
 
Update from Rangers Football Club:

“Rangers are awaiting a response from the SPFL prior to the scheduled board meeting at 9:30am. We are yet to receive a response in relation to our requests for clarity in regard to our Members Resolution.”
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What a blatantly corrupt SPFL board.

With us now getting back to full strength, we now have the awkward task of starting to dismantle the cabal.
 
Can someone confirm if Rangers are looking for an equal split of all prize money, or is it based on the current standings?

Has this been confirmed?
 
" Furthermore, many clubs urgently require financial support to maintain cash flow and allow them to survive this current impasse so they can return to normal business when the current government lockdown is relaxed. It is important to recognise that these clubs across all the leagues are now in a financially precarious situation."
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Nevin on BBC News suggesting the SPFL could offer member clubs a loan ( an advance of the prize money ) to tide them by until the new season.

They're pulling out all the stops to scupper Rangers' proposal.
 
If any of the other clubs vote against getting an equal share of the money they deserve to go to the wall it makes business sense and will help the other clubs survive. They would not get any loans from financial institutions again as they have practised malpractice and put their business in jeopardy by refusing a revenue.
 
Lenzie Loyal said:
Nevin on BBC News suggesting the SPFL could offer member clubs a loan ( an advance of the prize money ) to tide them by until the new season.

They're pulling out all the stops to scupper Rangers' proposal.
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I actually took Nevins thoughts to be against what the SPFL are proposing. He wants a loan which wards of financial problems until we can get the games played, he didn’t want the season to end.
 
Lenzie Loyal said:
I never heard the word loan before.

My understanding of it was that Rangers wanted the prize money dished out now to help clubs in financial difficulty.
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The news is moving fast but here's the wording of our resolution:

“That the board of the company be authorised and instructed to make payment to the member clubs of the league of loans equal to the amount that such member clubs would become entitled to if the Scottish Football Leagues were completed and each member club’s position in the completed league was the same as the position in which that member club is presently.

“Such loans to be provided without the payment of interest or fees to the league by the member clubs and to be made forthwith on the passing of this resolution and to continue to be available until the league determines that a final allocation of the payments to member clubs in respect of season 2019/2020 can be made.

“On such determination by the league, member clubs shall be entitled to effect repayment by written confirmation to the league that the loan provided to that member club may be set against the equivalent amount of the repayment to be made to such member club on determination.”
 
Valley Bluenose said:
The news is moving fast but here's the wording of our resolution:

“That the board of the company be authorised and instructed to make payment to the member clubs of the league of loans equal to the amount that such member clubs would become entitled to if the Scottish Football Leagues were completed and each member club’s position in the completed league was the same as the position in which that member club is presently.

“Such loans to be provided without the payment of interest or fees to the league by the member clubs and to be made forthwith on the passing of this resolution and to continue to be available until the league determines that a final allocation of the payments to member clubs in respect of season 2019/2020 can be made.

“On such determination by the league, member clubs shall be entitled to effect repayment by written confirmation to the league that the loan provided to that member club may be set against the equivalent amount of the repayment to be made to such member club on determination.”
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I stand corrected. Cheers.
 
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