Clubs going to the wall

The Dude said:
If the SFA would have approved the move. And the Conference and FA would accept us.
And FIFA and UEFA approved it.
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If we weren't' accepted by the SFA, and were left on our own. Why would we need SFA approval?

We'd be gone with regards to Scottish football. They'd have washed their hand of us.

The conference would have taken Rangers in a flash.
 
If there is anything good that comes from this Covid 19 situation, it will be the demise of many of the smaller clubs. We are a small country with too many clubs.
 
Amadaeus said:
If we weren't' accepted by the SFA, and were left on our own. Why would we need SFA approval?

We'd be gone with regards to Scottish football. They'd have washed their hand of us.

The conference would have taken Rangers in a flash.
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Unless Glasgow suddenly moves to England, we'd need SFA approval.
 
tambourineman said:
If the majority go out of business who will we play?
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For me, the ideal situation would be a lot of clubs going out of business both in Scotland and England to the extent that leagues are restructured so that there is a British Premier League with us in it.

Like I say, the 'ideal' and maybe a fantasy but who knows?
 
I genuinely care not a jot for any of them.

They're either big enough to stand on their own 2 feet or they go extinct.

Why should football be protected when people in the real world are losing their jobs?
 
The Dude said:
Unless Glasgow suddenly moves to England, we'd need SFA approval.
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In 2012 we'd have needed no approval. We'd have been gone, so how could the SFA have held us back?

They'd be holding back something that, in their words, doesn't exist.

In the EU (2012) you can start a company in any EU country correct? Freedom of movement?
 
Amadaeus said:
In 2012 we'd have needed no approval. We'd have been gone, so how could the SFA have held us back?

They'd be holding back something that, in their words, doesn't exist.

In the EU (2012) you can start a company in any EU country correct? Freedom of movement?
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Because the football administration body has to grant permission for any professional game played within its geographical area. No professional football can be played in Scotland without the permission of the sfa - whether it's a competition affiliated with the sfa, a uefa competition or a league game featuring teams from another uefa or FIFA member national administration.

No sfa agreement = no professional football match, even if it was in an English FA competition.
 
iaatpies said:
Because the football administration body has to grant permission for any professional game played within its geographical area. No professional football can be played in Scotland without the permission of the sfa - whether it's a competition affiliated with the sfa, a uefa competition or a league game featuring teams from another uefa or FIFA member national administration.

No sfa agreement = no professional football match, even if it was in an English FA competition.
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If we don't exist, then why would they block it?

According to the then EU rules. we can setup in any country. Correct?
You're implying a German company can't setup in France. Any decent EU lawyer would run rings round this at the time.
 
Amadaeus said:
In 2012 we'd have needed no approval. We'd have been gone, so how could the SFA have held us back?

They'd be holding back something that, in their words, doesn't exist.

In the EU (2012) you can start a company in any EU country correct? Freedom of movement?
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Nope. We play in the SFA's geographic territory so require their approval to join another association.
 
The Dude said:
Nope. We play in the SFA's geographic territory so require their approval to join another association.
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But we don't exist according to the SFA, according to EU 2012 laws you're stopping a company setting up in another country. This would be illegal.
The geographical location, according to the then EU rules, would be irrelevant. Once again any decent lawyer would run circles round this.

If the conference accepted us the SFA could do SFA.
 
Amadaeus said:
But we don't exist according to the SFA, according to EU 2012 laws you're stopping a company setting up in another country. This would be illegal.
The geographical location, according to the then EU rules, would be irrelevant. Once again any decent lawyer would run circles round this.

If the conference accepted us the SFA could do SFA.
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We do exist according, we just wouldn't be members of their association.

There would be nothing to stop us setting the company up anywhere we wanted but for membership of the relevant league bodies we need to be based within their domestic territory - if we aren't we need the approval of the FA whose territory we would be playing our home games in.

If it was as simple as you suggest, why hasn't a single team across Europe simply resigned from their domestic league and joined another one? Surely it would benefit the likes of Ajax, say, to join the Bundesliga or the Portuguese big three to join La Liga.
 
daven37 said:
Not bothered if this goes against the grain here but I don't want any club to go to the wall.

First and foremost I want them all to witness our return to the top - hopefully this season.

I don't want to see people lose their jobs among professional clubs - backroom staff.

For the smaller clubs - as much as our journey through the lower leagues sickens me, I still felt a warmth to the lower league clubs - especially from fans and communities - who were all proud to host Rangers coming to their town.

There are also people out there where football will be one of the few things to keep them going.
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Did they give a shit about our backroom staff?
 
The Dude said:
We do exist according, we just wouldn't be members of their association.

There would be nothing to stop us setting the company up anywhere we wanted but for membership of the relevant league bodies we need to be based within their domestic territory - if we aren't we need the approval of the FA whose territory we would be playing our home games in.

If it was as simple as you suggest, why hasn't a single team across Europe simply resigned from their domestic league and joined another one? Surely it would benefit the likes of Ajax, say, to join the Bundesliga or the Portuguese big three to join La Liga.
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Those teams you mention don’t have a governing body that does one clubs bidding. They operate in leagues where sporting integrity is an actual thing, where the governing body can make a decision and it might not suit everyone but the majority accept it without the need to make accusations of bias based on bigotry and hatred of one club.

if it was easy, every club could make a move at some stage if they wanted, but would they really want to if they get treated fairly in their own country?

I would dare say that if rangers football club get treated with impartiality like most clubs in other countries do, then we as a fanbase wouldn’t be talking about setting up elsewhere. Hell, if the set up in this country was ran in a fair and impartial manner, and actually knew what the %^*& it was doing, we might actually have some money floating around the game to keep some smaller clubs afloat in the event of a pandemic or crisis. There might even be a competitive aspect to the game if it was ran properly.
 
Paulski54 said:
Those teams you mention don’t have a governing body that does one clubs bidding. They operate in leagues where sporting integrity is an actual thing, where the governing body can make a decision and it might not suit everyone but the majority accept it without the need to make accusations of bias based on bigotry and hatred of one club.

if it was easy, every club could make a move at some stage if they wanted, but would they really want to if they get treated fairly in their own country?

I would dare say that if Rangers football club get treated with impartiality like most clubs in other countries do, then we as a fanbase wouldn’t be talking about setting up elsewhere. Hell, if the set up in this country was ran in a fair and impartial manner, and actually knew what the %^*& it was doing, we might actually have some money floating around the game to keep some smaller clubs afloat in the event of a pandemic or crisis. There might even be a competitive aspect to the game if it was ran properly.
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Like the KNVB who AZ Alkmaar threatened to take to court over their 'biased' decision to award Ajax the CL place for finishing top of the Eredivisie?

Or like La Liga where clubs outwith Barca and Real have long complained that the entire system is set up to benefit either of those sides?
 
The Dude said:
We do exist according, we just wouldn't be members of their association.

There would be nothing to stop us setting the company up anywhere we wanted but for membership of the relevant league bodies we need to be based within their domestic territory - if we aren't we need the approval of the FA whose territory we would be playing our home games in.

If it was as simple as you suggest, why hasn't a single team across Europe simply resigned from their domestic league and joined another one? Surely it would benefit the likes of Ajax, say, to join the Bundesliga or the Portuguese big three to join La Liga.
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Thank you for the reply.

Again, according to the then EU rules, you're suggesting a competent lawyer wouldn't be able to circumvent these. The geographical location would be deemed irrelevant. Your suggesting Ajax and the Portugeuse Big three would have applied to join these leagues. They have not. Why? There was no need.

Rangers on the other hand, would have had no home in 2012. Apparently don't exist. According to the SFA.

So any company Lawyer worth with their salt according to EU rules at the time, could setup in a company other country. This is fact Regardless of what the SFA would have thought and to suggest that geographical location mattered at the time is a red herring., Remember that old fella Bosman? Freedom of movement for people and companies.
 
The Dude said:
Like the KNVB who AZ Alkmaar threatened to take to court over their 'biased' decision to award Ajax the CL place for finishing top of the Eredivisie?

Or like La Liga where clubs outwith Barca and Real have long complained that the entire system is set up to benefit either of those sides?
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Did the KNVB not basically null and void the season? Did they not decide that there would be no winners? They still had to “nominate” a team to represent the country in the CL, and they made what most would perceive as a fair decision, to not award titles.

La Liga, much like the SPFL, a genuine two horse race with the occasional title winner from elsewhere, usually Valencia, atletico or someone else who gets unusually lucky. The Spanish league has been this way for years, and the major difference is that the big two generate far more revenue for their league than we do. Might be unfair to some, but at least it’s competitive, glamorous, sporting and a pretty decent product to watch.

I assume you are happy with the status quo, with how this shitshow of an operation is, well, operating? The SPFL/SFA circus I mean. Your happy with how everything is going? Your happy with how rangers are treated, season in, season out? When our manager gets cited for answering a question that wasn’t out of turn, yet the player doesn’t get punished for a very very bad tackle that could and did endanger a fellow pros career? Your happy with how the governing bodies shaft is consistently, and don’t even have the wherewithal or desire to actually improve the game here with some forward thinking and maybe even some half decent organisation?

What would you do? What would you change? You like to argue or disagree quite often, and maybe offer an alternative answer but not a solution to the problems here, so what’s your solutions? How does this governing body generate the funds to keep this game afloat? How do they generate the funds to improve the game and to look after its members in the event of a crisis? How do they stop smaller clubs from going to the wall?
 
Paulski54 said:
Did the KNVB not basically null and void the season? Did they not decide that there would be no winners? They still had to “nominate” a team to represent the country in the CL, and they made what most would perceive as a fair decision, to not award titles.

La Liga, much like the SPFL, a genuine two horse race with the occasional title winner from elsewhere, usually Valencia, atletico or someone else who gets unusually lucky. The Spanish league has been this way for years, and the major difference is that the big two generate far more revenue for their league than we do. Might be unfair to some, but at least it’s competitive, glamorous, sporting and a pretty decent product to watch.

I assume you are happy with the status quo, with how this shitshow of an operation is, well, operating? The SPFL/SFA circus I mean. Your happy with how everything is going? Your happy with how Rangers are treated, season in, season out? When our manager gets cited for answering a question that wasn’t out of turn, yet the player doesn’t get punished for a very very bad tackle that could and did endanger a fellow pros career? Your happy with how the governing bodies shaft is consistently, and don’t even have the wherewithal or desire to actually improve the game here with some forward thinking and maybe even some half decent organisation?

What would you do? What would you change? You like to argue or disagree quite often, and maybe offer an alternative answer but not a solution to the problems here, so what’s your solutions? How does this governing body generate the funds to keep this game afloat? How do they generate the funds to improve the game and to look after its members in the event of a crisis? How do they stop smaller clubs from going to the wall?
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The Dutch title wasn't awarded but standings and results from 2019/20 remained in place and were used to determine European places etc.

No idea how one league dominated by two teams is in any way more sporting than another dominated by two teas.

Christ knows where you pulled half those assumptions from as they bear no relation to anything I've posted here, on twitter or anywhere else.

What would I do? Lots given free rein. I'd remove both boards from the SFA and SPFL and replace them with five independent directors (including the chair) with no ties to any clubs and supplement it with a single rep from each of the four divisions.

I would regionalise the bottom two tiers of the SPFL into a North/South league and stop nonsense like Elgin travelling to Stranraer on a Tuesday in February.

I would aim to find a way to get Colts into the league pyramid. If that means starting at the very bottom in the EOSFL/WOSFL/SOSFL/HFL so be it. If they then earn promotions up to the SPFL, they would be fully deserving of their place in the SPFL.

I would actively look to create as many affiliations as possible with 'big' clubs outside of Scotland/the UK in a bid to attract loan players, new investment and new attention.

I'd push to expand on the cross-border aspect of the Challenge Cup and look to merge the League Cups in Scotland and England and create a British Leagues Cup which would be regionalised until later in the competition to avoid the likes of East Fife having to go to Exeter City.

I'd strictly enforce something similar to FFP domestically and stop clubs spending way beyond their means.

I'd look to have clubs do more to engage in their local community and work to grow their support and look to get more young fans into grounds (similar to the group at Dumbarton).

I'd set a cap on ticket prices to stop families being priced out of going to football.

I'd massively alter the way TV and prize money is structured in Scotland and look to allow clubs to provide their own streaming service in the UK for games not being broadcast on TV, where possible.

There's plenty more tbh but that's a start.
 
BonessBear90 said:
Also for what its worth, I dont want any club to go under. For full time clubs it means hundreds of job losses, for part time clubs they usually play a big part in the local community. Times are hard enough without losing things that these clubs bring. (Doesn't mean I dont hate certain clubs mind you!!)
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Yeah, admirable thoughts.
Then I recall the absolute hate fest that existed when we were at our lowest point, without a single friend and everyone and anyone who voiced an opinion - whether they had been actually asked or not - were universal in their gloating and wishing only the worst of outcomes for us.
I (and many another on here) said at the time said : Never Forgive, Never forget.
Obviously only some of us actually meant it.
For that reason I say cheerfully, feck them.
Feck them all
 
The Dude said:
The Dutch title wasn't awarded but standings and results from 2019/20 remained in place and were used to determine European places etc.

No idea how one league dominated by two teams is in any way more sporting than another dominated by two teas.

Christ knows where you pulled half those assumptions from as they bear no relation to anything I've posted here, on twitter or anywhere else.

What would I do? Lots given free rein. I'd remove both boards from the SFA and SPFL and replace them with five independent directors (including the chair) with no ties to any clubs and supplement it with a single rep from each of the four divisions.

I would regionalise the bottom two tiers of the SPFL into a North/South league and stop nonsense like Elgin travelling to Stranraer on a Tuesday in February.

I would aim to find a way to get Colts into the league pyramid. If that means starting at the very bottom in the EOSFL/WOSFL/SOSFL/HFL so be it. If they then earn promotions up to the SPFL, they would be fully deserving of their place in the SPFL.

I would actively look to create as many affiliations as possible with 'big' clubs outside of Scotland/the UK in a bid to attract loan players, new investment and new attention.

I'd push to expand on the cross-border aspect of the Challenge Cup and look to merge the League Cups in Scotland and England and create a British Leagues Cup which would be regionalised until later in the competition to avoid the likes of East Fife having to go to Exeter City.

I'd strictly enforce something similar to FFP domestically and stop clubs spending way beyond their means.

I'd look to have clubs do more to engage in their local community and work to grow their support and look to get more young fans into grounds (similar to the group at Dumbarton).

I'd set a cap on ticket prices to stop families being priced out of going to football.

I'd massively alter the way TV and prize money is structured in Scotland and look to allow clubs to provide their own streaming service in the UK for games not being broadcast on TV, where possible.

There's plenty more tbh but that's a start.
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I’ll give you your due here, that’s a lot of changes, some positive and some negative but it’s changes all the same. The biggest problem is trying to get the morons who run the game to make some, if not all, of these changes to improve the game or at least try to improve it.
Not sure about the colts, Id bring back reserve football if im being honest. Let the kids play against seasoned pros although to be fair, the reserves wouldn’t be anywhere near the way it used to be.
Defo make changes with the governing bodies and who’s on these boards, I’m with you there but it would be difficult to find an individual who wouldn’t have an agenda, but in any case, whoever would be on any of these boards should have zero affiliations anyway.
FFP yes, without a doubt. Clubs try to act like the big boys in the big boys playground until they run out of dough then they need to go straight back into the wee playpen where the came from. These clubs should always be spending within its means and nothing else.

The Spanish league, even though it’s mostly a two horse league, is still one of the most competitive and entertaining leagues in the world, unlike our 2 team circus. Investors would rather invest in glamour, rather than invest in a dogshit product that won’t ever make any real money. That’s mainly down to the fuckwits who actually claim to run the game. They can’t attract decent investors because they have a shit product to promote and sell, and no one wants to touch it. And that then leads onto no money in the pot to help the wee guys out. The same wee clubs who contribute the equivalent of the centre of a doughnut to the game in this country.
 
Amadaeus said:
If we don't exist, then why would they block it?

According to the then EU rules. we can setup in any country. Correct?
You're implying a German company can't setup in France. Any decent EU lawyer would run rings round this at the time.
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You can set up a company anywhere in the EU. You can engage in commercial activity. What you can't do is participate in professional football without membership of a national governing body. 99% of the time that means being a member of your domestic area governing body. In the minority of cross border situations it means being a member of the governing body that the league you want to play in is affiliated with and getting the consent of the governing body of the area in which you are based. Without both? You can carry out commercial activities such as selling merchandise but you can't play professional football.

The sfa could object. That objection would be made to Uefa. The consequences of the objection range from European football bans to punishment for alll English fa clubs/competitions and any player playing with the rogue team being banned from international football. A good lawyer may well challenge it. A very good lawyer may even win. But it would be hugely expensive and take years to resolve.

All these fantasies fans have about being able to just up sticks and move to England are exactly that. They're fantasy. If it ever changes then it'll be because the biggest teams in Europe want to take their ball with them to a European super league and not because Rangers fans are jealous of the money on offer to shite EPL sides.
 
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