Cocaine epidemic on the terraces

Decriminalization works well in Portugal

It does.

The UK is a different country both culturally and politically. Therefore, it's not just as simple as blindly following their lead.

In any case, I don't know what people are calling for, be it decriminalisation or full legalisation.
 
The folk calling for the legalization of drugs are always so radical about it.

From a practical point of view, it’s completely unworkable.
I can't begin to fathom what you took from the post you quoted me on that then compelled you to type about folk being radical about it.
 
I'd say there's a fair degree of radicalism involved in wanting to either bounce heads off walls or set up Auschwitz on the Isle of Skye.

I'm genuinely interested in how you quantify it being unworkable?

If it was me in there with my son and that happened they would of got a boot in the balls or a slapping.

There is that more of a acceptable answer ffs??

You worry more about stuff shite into your body I'll worry about the safety of my son and the effects of seeing fannies fire that muck up there nose at a football match.
 
If it was me in there with my son and that happened they would of got a boot in the balls or a slapping.

There is that more of a acceptable answer ffs??

You worry more about stuff shite into your body I'll worry about the safety of my son and the effects of seeing fannies fire that muck up there nose at a football match.
I agree with you people shouldn't openly consume drugs in front of kids. Much like you shouldn't smoke in the toilets. In both situations it's not the drugs or the cigarettes that are the problem it's the pricks who are being ignorant and inconsiderate of their surroundings.
 
Considering there are a fair amount of conservative attitudes in the UK, such attitudes would require erosion before all drugs are suddenly legalized. Otherwise, there would be major conflict preventing the policy from being effective.

Also, what exactly are the parameters going to be? Is it complete legalization or just decriminalsiation? These issues would need resolved.

Would it lead to demands for more advanced recovery facilities, and what implication would this have on the health service and tax payer?

Could it lead to destigmatisation to the extent that drug use becomes more socially acceptable and users more brazen? What impact would this have on younger people if drug taking was to be even less taboo than it already is - more usage I’d predict.

This is just scratching the surface. It’s a complete midfield riddled with uncertainties.
*Also, what exactly are the parameters going to be? Is it complete legalization or just decriminalsiation? These issues would need resolved.

Yes indeed they would need to be resolved. Decriminalisation would be a good start. I don't think anyone envisages it would be a quick process.

*Would it lead to demands for more advanced recovery facilities, and what implication would this have on the health service and tax payer?

Addiction is an illness and as such of course there should be more advanced treatment centres. Who doesn't want ill people treated? Do you believe people take the decision tomorrow I am going to begin the process of being an addict?
 
If it was me in there with my son and that happened they would of got a boot in the balls or a slapping.

There is that more of a acceptable answer ffs??

You worry more about stuff shite into your body I'll worry about the safety of my son and the effects of seeing fannies fire that muck up there nose at a football match.
As the previous poster has alluded to how many people so far have you booted in the balls or slapped for smoking in the toilet?
 
I agree with you people shouldn't openly consume drugs in front of kids. Much like you shouldn't smoke in the toilets. In both situations it's not the drugs or the cigarettes that are the problem it's the pricks who are being ignorant and inconsiderate of their surroundings.

Well at least we agree on something.

For what it's worth when it comes to this, smokers are an even bigger shower of ignorant c*nts doing that when there is kids around at the footie.
 
As the previous poster has alluded to how many people so far have you booted in the balls or slapped for smoking in the toilet?

I agree.

They are probably an even bigger shower of ignorant b@stards doing that knowing fine well there is loads of kids at games now.
 
I can't begin to fathom what you took from the post you quoted me on that then compelled you to type about folk being radical about it.

The comment wasn't aimed directly at you.

It was towards the people I usually come across calling for legalisation. I didn't make that clear.
 
*Also, what exactly are the parameters going to be? Is it complete legalization or just decriminalsiation? These issues would need resolved.

Yes indeed they would need to be resolved. Decriminalisation would be a good start. I don't think anyone envisages it would be a quick process.

*Would it lead to demands for more advanced recovery facilities, and what implication would this have on the health service and tax payer?

Addiction is an illness and as such of course there should be more advanced treatment centres. Who doesn't want ill people treated? Do you believe people take the decision tomorrow I am going to begin the process of being an addict?

This point was in relation to the idea that decriminalisation could lead to a greater number of drug users.

More drug users > more addicts > health service / tax implications.

Of course it does assume that decriminalisation could lead to more users. Whether that is indeed the case is debatable. I'd say if there becomes a culture of drug taking being 'acceptable' (even more so than it already is) then this is a serious concern. You can point to countries who have decriminalised with positive results to counter this but I stand by the fact the UK is culturally and politically different from these nations. Therefore, these comparisons can't be fully relied upon.
 
This point was in relation to the idea that decriminalisation could lead to a greater number of drug users.

More drug users > more addicts > health service / tax implications.

Of course it does assume that decriminalisation could lead to more users. Whether that is indeed the case is debatable. You can point to countries who have decriminalised with positive results to counter this but I stand by the fact the UK is culturally and politically different from these nations. Therefore, these comparisons can't be fully relied upon.
You're stating that studies conducted live in Western European societies cannot be trusted.

We're talking about something that has been tried in very few places. In the places it has the results have been positive.

I don't see the logic in discounting verified studies based on the fact that it's in a different country to where we are now.

What studies or evidence are you using to form your opinions?

I sense that there is a reluctance to accept any evidence which contradict your current viewpoint.
 
You're stating that studies conducted live in Western European societies cannot be trusted.

We're talking about something that has been tried in very few places. In the places it has the results have been positive.

I don't see the logic in discounting verified studies based on the fact that it's in a different country to where we are now.

What studies or evidence are you using to form your opinions?

I sense that there is a reluctance to accept any evidence which contradict your current viewpoint.

Portugal is a different country culturally and politically from the UK.

Just because they are in Western Europe doesn’t mean they are directly comparable.

Don’t you think legislators and policy advisors would take this into account?

I’m not using any studies or evidence to form my opinions. I’m using caution / reason / common sense and a knowledge of how policy works.

The truth is that from our current laws and attitudes on drugs, legalization is a massive change. You can’t just demand change like that without serious and dogmatic debate on the topic through academia and government - that hasn’t happened on this issue.

I’m open minded. But, mere references to a few other jurisdictions isn’t sufficient to support such a radical change for our country.
 
It does.

The UK is a different country both culturally and politically. Therefore, it's not just as simple as blindly following their lead.

In any case, I don't know what people are calling for, be it decriminalisation or full legalisation.

I would legalise and the government would make the big bucks.


Also less harm,less deaths and less strain on the nhs
 
Portugal is a different country culturally and politically from the UK.

Just because they are in Western Europe doesn’t mean they are directly comparable.

Don’t you think legislators and policy advisors would take this into account?

I’m not using any studies or evidence to form my opinions. I’m using caution / reason / common sense and a knowledge of how policy works.

The truth is that from our current laws and attitudes on drugs, legalization is a massive change. You can’t just demand change like that without serious and dogmatic debate on the topic through academia and government - that hasn’t happened on this issue.

I’m open minded. But, mere references to a few other jurisdictions isn’t sufficient to support such a radical change for our country.
What I've highlighted above is the biggest roadblock to the discussions and debate you rightly point out are needed.

I'm not digging you out specifically but people have such strong opinions on this subject which have been formed without any shred of evidence. Most of these people, on here at least are then discrediting or outright ignoring evidence based on their own uneducated opinion.

Im glad you're open minded. Not everyone has to agree with or want to take drugs to realise that there are issues with the current set up.
 
What I've highlighted above is the biggest roadblock to the discussions and debate you rightly point out are needed.

I'm not digging you out specifically but people have such strong opinions on this subject which have been formed without any shred of evidence. Most of these people, on here at least are then discrediting or outright ignoring this evidence based on their own uneducated opinion.

Im glad you're open minded. Not everyone has to agree with or want to take drugs to realise that there are issues with the current set up.

Why do you need to cite studies specifically on this issue to have an informed opinion though?

What we’re talking about comes under policy reform and comparative policy. What if you’re well informed on those issues? If so, I think that leaves you in a position to say something.

I agree there’s issues with the current system. Also, perhaps my view is eschewed by the fact that I’m fairly cautious by nature and don’t use drugs or agree with them. Maybe your view is equally eschewed by the fact your more open to risk and don’t have an issue with drugs - I don’t know. Point is we’re all coming to this with an inherent bias of some sort.
 
I'm not one making a c*nt of myself stuffing shite up my nose to make me socially acceptable and a plastic hardman while lining the pockets of criminals.

But hey ho knock yourself out with that one. Maybe one day you'll get your priorities in life sorted.
What chance do I have if you cant read. I've stated numerous times that it's out of order. As is assault people. I'm also fairly certain its yourself acting the plastic hard man on the internet
 
Remember alcohol was illegal and stigmatised in the States in the last 100 years. How things have changed.

This is oft-referenced but I'm not entirely sure the comparison holds. Alcohol was legal and widespread before being removed from public consumption primarily through a religious campaign.

The US had a history of conflict with alcohol with the temperance movement originating in the late 18th century, as well as tax disagreements on the likes of whiskey.
 
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Why do you need to cite studies specifically on this issue to have an informed opinion though?

What we’re talking about comes under policy reform and comparative policy. What if you’re well informed on those issues? If so, I think that leaves you in a position to say something.

I agree there’s issues with the current system. Also, perhaps my view is eschewed by the fact that I’m fairly cautious by nature and don’t use drugs or agree with them. Maybe your view is equally eschewed by the fact your more open to risk and don’t have an issue with drugs - I don’t know. Point is we’re all coming to this with an inherent bias of some sort.
Policy reform is the process of change. You need to understand the subject matter to effectively change the policy for the better.

Attitudes towards drugs depend largely on socialisation and education. Education is Currently at minimal levels publically so I understand why people are skeptical. And the only time most people hear about drugs is because there have been tragic incidents which by and large are caused by tainted batches.

I'm cautious that I sound like I'm advocating drugs for all, im really not. I'm just pragmatic enough to know people will continue taking drugs so we might as well construct an society where it can be done as safely as possible with the least amount of fallout.
 
This is oft-referenced but I'm not entirely sure the comparison holds. Alcohol was legal and widespread before being removed from public consumption primarily a religious campaign.

The US had a history of conflict with alcohol with temperance movement originating in the late 18th century, as well as tax disagreements on the likes of whiskey.

Is that Irish Whisky bud?? :p
 
This is oft-referenced but I'm not entirely sure the comparison holds. Alcohol was legal and widespread before being removed from public consumption primarily a religious campaign.

The US had a history of conflict with alcohol with temperance movement originating in the late 18th century, as well as tax disagreements on the likes of whiskey.
Much like pre-prohibition America, a lot of people today view drugs as widely acceptable whereas a lot of people clearly don't.

Drugs were around, accepted and used far before the very concept of modern society was even considered. It depends how far in or how far out you wish to view it from.
 
Policy reform is the process of change. You need to understand the subject matter to effectively change the policy for the better.

Attitudes towards drugs depend largely on socialisation and education. Education is Currently at minimal levels publically so I understand why people are skeptical. And the only time most people hear about drugs is because there have been tragic incidents which by and large are caused by tainted batches.

I'm cautious that I sound like I'm advocating drugs for all, im really not. I'm just pragmatic enough to know people will continue taking drugs so we might as well construct an society where it can be done as safely as possible with the least amount of fallout.

All valid points to be fair.

Decriminalisation I can see where all of you guys are coming from. But I still stand by the comments I made earlier on the matter.

There was a discussion about this in the lounge a while back where posters were arguing for the NHS to produce all illegal drugs - including party drugs - and freely supply them. To me that’s completely unworkable but I get the argument here is more for mere decriminalisation.
 
All valid points to be fair.

Decriminalisation I can see where all of you guys are coming from. But I still stand by the comments I made earlier on the matter.

There was a discussion about this in the lounge a while back where posters were arguing for the NHS to produce all illegal drugs - including party drugs - and freely supply them. To me that’s completely unworkable but I get the argument here is more for mere decriminalisation.
That's fair enough mate.

Decriminilastion would see drug testing kits in clubs etc so people could use them more responsibly and be aware of what they are taking without the risk of being arrested, fined and given a criminal record.

Edit: And that would present a significant achievement and negate the need, at least from a safety perspective, for the set up you mention above.
 
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I personally hate drugs and have my own reasons for doing so (with the exception of cannabis)

But there is a strong case for legalisation, in Switzerland when they made heroin on prescription petty street crime fell by like 80% and street prostitution went to nearly zero, after it was available for fck all.

Also a point to note that hardly any of the heroin addicts stayed on the programme, even though it was free the majority managed to quit.

For drugs such as smack I'd agree to legalise it instantly, not to keen on coke and MDMA being available to buy, due to kids being nuggets.

If people think they can sniff gear every weekend and stay fit the rest of thier life they are wrong and very fcking wrong.

You would leaglise Heroin, but not Coke or MDMA?
 
Booze would be class A if it was discovered today.

And it doesn’t follow that therefore it’s no different from Cocaine.

Have a drink with your dinner 5 nights of the week or have enough Cocaine 5 nights of the week to get the equivalent effect.

I’d bet in most cases the drinker will end up in a better place than the cocaine user.
 
How did the drug dealers manager to slide the whole 'now it's proper stuff' past everyone ?

"We've been giving you absolute shit for years but now its no bad" haha
 
And it doesn’t follow that therefore it’s no different from Cocaine.

Have a drink with your dinner 5 nights of the week or have enough Cocaine 5 nights of the week to get the equivalent effect.

I’d bet in most cases the drinker will end up in a better place than the cocaine user.

A good point but i don't think the difference is that major.

I guess it would be fairer for me to say that on a big session there is not much difference if binging on booze than there is binging on coke. As i said earlier i think there would be a lot more trouble at the football if half the young team just bevied and didn't take coke. Coke sobers you up a lot.
 
Ah feck it I might take a wee bit of smack to the next game and have a wee smoke of it in the toilet at half time. After all I’m only enjoying myself. Difference is I would be called a junkie bastard. Lol. I’m only joking by the way for anyone ready report me.
 
It's about time the NHS started charging repeat offenders turning up at A&E on drink and drug related incidents.

Sick of my taxes going to treating these fools who have self inflicted time after time.
 
My son told me a while ago how naive I was regards the numbers in society who are on the marching powder. So I have been more vigilant and now realize how prevalent it is in society.
Alcohol and an odd cigarette along with the booze are my drugs of choice. I do know they are bad for me/everyone but I'm at an age where I think why deprive myself of 2 of life's great pleasures;)?

In answer to the op its very common at the fitbaw and in society in general. The problem for me is not the drugs of choice but who takes them. As a good and wise old friend once said,
"People shouldn't drink or take drugs on an empty heed" ;)
 
Going on the official statistics, police seizures are on the rise , we are also seeing record number of deaths by drug users , whilst also police / legal spending on enforcement / prevention is at record levels. We also have an overflowing prison population

We can’t iive in a 1940s mindset bubble when it comes to drugs & drug users.

Just repeating & carrying on with the same old policies is getting us nowhere , whilst making organised crime gangs very wealthy and seeing public heath costs rise caring for those put at risk due to the unregulated quality & quantity control of the drugs users are going to take.

I fully understand some people are scared / anxious about the subject of legalisation, particularly those with children worried about what it might mean further down the line or for those who have encountered the effects of criminality associated with drug addicts or had family members die from their drug addictions, however the realities of the modern world are here and we all need to adapt and introduce a new approach as drugs aren’t going away.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/17511788.seizures-of-class-a-drugs-soar-in-scotland/
 
This point was in relation to the idea that decriminalisation could lead to a greater number of drug users.

More drug users > more addicts > health service / tax implications.

Of course it does assume that decriminalisation could lead to more users. Whether that is indeed the case is debatable. I'd say if there becomes a culture of drug taking being 'acceptable' (even more so than it already is) then this is a serious concern. You can point to countries who have decriminalised with positive results to counter this but I stand by the fact the UK is culturally and politically different from these nations. Therefore, these comparisons can't be fully relied upon.
Alcohol is allowed as it provides employment and tax revenues. If it wasn't so woven into the fabric of society should it be banned? I know a well known and wealthy defence lawyer who thanks booze for making his career. If drugs were legal I'm sure plenty more people would be on them.
 
Franco's is dog friendly apparently :p

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Alcohol is allowed as it provides employment and tax revenues. If it wasn't so woven into the fabric of society should it be banned? I know a well known and wealthy defence lawyer who thanks booze for making his career. If drugs were legal I'm sure plenty more people would be on them.


So you'd just go "%^*& it i'm giving this heroin a go"?

Unlikely i suspect
 
Banning alcohol wouldn’t bother me mate. I like a beer or a glass of wine but if it was banned I’d be fine with it. I’d ban cigarettes and cease medical support for those that continue to smoke and get cancer as a result as it’s self inflicted. We all have different views on how to improve society.
Would you also ban medical support for those with diseases related to alcohol abuse? Or are they okay cos you like a wee glass of wine?

You can always tell who the crackpots are when it comes to discussions about drug use.
 
Would you also ban medical support for those with diseases related to alcohol abuse? Or are they okay cos you like a wee glass of wine?

You can always tell who the crackpots are when it comes to discussions about drug use.

I'm supposed to respond to this? You need to up your game - 'pot kettle black' springs to mind - again.
 
Never, drank, smoked or done drugs in my life, as it was a career choice for me.

Certainly doesn't stop me enjoying myself.

I certainly don't take a self righteous view on things though and in my circle of friends, all drink, some smoke, some do gear and some do all 3.

Some seem ok with it, some get into an absolute mess though with the gear sometimes and are full of the fears and regrets next day,



Each to their own but definitely not for me.

Certainly don't feel as if I'm missing out on anything.
 
Never, drank, smoked or done drugs in my life, as it was a career choice for me.

Certainly doesn't stop me enjoying myself.

I certainly don't take a self righteous view on things though and in my circle of friends, all drink, some smoke, some do gear and some do all 3.

Some seem ok with it, some get into an absolute mess though with the gear sometimes and are full of the fears and regrets next day,
You're not. They're missing out on being for and healthy every day.


Each to their own but definitely not for me.

Certainly don't feel as if I'm missing out on anything.
 
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