GovanFront4
Well-Known Member
Castilla played Real Madrid in the final one year.
Colts Apparently Thrown Out Lowland League
- Thread starter Sasa’s Shin Guards
- Start date
I think they voted for 2 guest clubs assuming only Rangers and celtic wanted involved. Hearts threw a spanner in the works by also applying.
It should have been invite only instead of applications
William Cutting
Well-Known Member
If that report is true, this is a problem of our own making by standing with Hearts.
I can see some of the concerns - they let 2 teams in, now it's 3, what will it be in a few seasons.
Tell Hearts to GTF.
I can see some of the concerns - they let 2 teams in, now it's 3, what will it be in a few seasons.
Tell Hearts to GTF.
Shengus Malengus
Well-Known Member
That fact doesn’t make it immune from criticism.
The Scottish league voted to put us in the bottom tier.
It had the right to do that.
Hating itself to death? Yes.
Desert Loyal
Well-Known Member
Scottish Football:
What? A modern setup that improves home grown players, raising the quality of the SPL, benefiting scottish teams in europe (outwith the OF). The national team would get proper players (none of this third cousin great grandad pish) and revenues would increase throughout the leagues from player sales, sponsorship and visiting fans.
Nope that would be witchcraft. We like this cinch thing, it's like free money!
derek145
Well-Known Member
The jist is that Hibs, Hearts and Motherwell have applied to join the Lowland League, one of them were late applying. The Lowland clubs voted against the applications as it would mean extra games but the Hibs, Hearts and Motherwell have complained saying that it gives the Old Firm clubs an advantage in developing their U20's. It's in the hands of the SFA to decide
remembertheepoch
Well-Known Member
High demand? The lowland league should just raise the price of membership and see how much hearts and Motherwell are willing to pay out of their small budgets. Supply and demand, supply and demand
magnus
Well-Known Member
The lowland league clubs should stand firm. They are assisting us and we have no right to be making demands. Some humility needs shown like we did whilst travelling through the lower leagues on our road to recovery. The wee teams are helping our youth teams and we should be appreciative of that.
Rangers, Celtic and Hearts demand to enter B teams into Lowland League
Plans for Celtic, Rangers and Hearts to field B teams in an expanded Lowland League next season are on the verge of collapse after SPL teams deliver stunning and outstanding ultimatum.www.dailymail.co.uk
A Nikki Menaj
elfideldo
Well-Known Member
Having attended 24 out of Rangers 34 Lowland League fixtures and a couple of games not involving Rangers, added to that I have recently watched the top four West of Scotland league teams I have seen enough to form an opinion.
In my view the Lowland League is poor and below the level of the West and probably the East of Scotland Leagues. If a Lowland League was being formed today I believe only Bonnyrigg, Spartans and East Kilbride would make the cut. Historically the Lowland League teams are "Senior" where as the West/East teams were "Junior". With the ridiculous one club promotion/relegation between the leagues it will take years to filter out the weaker teams.
Darvel, Auchinleck, Pollok and Clydebank would all win the Lowland League in its current format. Darvel have a winner takes all game against Tranent on Saturday for promotion to the Lowland League. I haven't seen Tranent but they do have quite a few players with league experience so it should be an interesting game.
I don't believe the Lowland League was of great benefit to a number of Rangers players. It was a wasted year for Kyle McClelland who is now leaving the club. Having been on loan at Falkirk the previous year to playing Lowland League in his final year at Rangers would have had little benefit. Cole McKinnon also played League One the previous year on loan at East Fife and Charlie McCann came from playing 23 Premier League Two games to the part time Lowland League.
Should Rangers participation go ahead next season and under the same U20 rules I believe Rangers team should be predominately made up of last season's u18's, with the bulk of U20 players going out on loan if they are not part of the first team squad.
Just my opinion of course.
In my view the Lowland League is poor and below the level of the West and probably the East of Scotland Leagues. If a Lowland League was being formed today I believe only Bonnyrigg, Spartans and East Kilbride would make the cut. Historically the Lowland League teams are "Senior" where as the West/East teams were "Junior". With the ridiculous one club promotion/relegation between the leagues it will take years to filter out the weaker teams.
Darvel, Auchinleck, Pollok and Clydebank would all win the Lowland League in its current format. Darvel have a winner takes all game against Tranent on Saturday for promotion to the Lowland League. I haven't seen Tranent but they do have quite a few players with league experience so it should be an interesting game.
I don't believe the Lowland League was of great benefit to a number of Rangers players. It was a wasted year for Kyle McClelland who is now leaving the club. Having been on loan at Falkirk the previous year to playing Lowland League in his final year at Rangers would have had little benefit. Cole McKinnon also played League One the previous year on loan at East Fife and Charlie McCann came from playing 23 Premier League Two games to the part time Lowland League.
Should Rangers participation go ahead next season and under the same U20 rules I believe Rangers team should be predominately made up of last season's u18's, with the bulk of U20 players going out on loan if they are not part of the first team squad.
Just my opinion of course.
Alex Venters
Well-Known Member
Like almost everything else in Scotland, football is run by idiots and when something is run by idiots it will fail before long.
Big Glasgow two is a good thing. It was put in place very badly. It was football's equivalent of moving from Greenock to Glasgow (a good thing), but getting there via the Old Largs Road then Kilmacolm and Bridge of Weir at rush-hour (mental).
The self-preservation in the SPFL top-flight play-off is bad. Knackered Championship team versus SPFL outfit with a couple of weeks to rest players with knocks, or one yellow card before suspension.
The Highland/Lowland sides playing off, to play off against the very bottom of the League, is worse.
But then consider the total dug-shite that make up the bottom third in the Lowland League, and how difficult it is to get into that.
Promotion to the Lowland League is via a three match round robin play-off between the winners of the East of Scotland Football League, South of Scotland Football League, and West of Scotland Football League, subject to their respective champions meeting league membership criteria.
Lots of teams in the West and East Leagues would be favourites against 75% of the Lowland League, but I think it's fair to say that the top 25% in the West and East would have the proverbial walkover against the bottom half of the Lowland.
I'd fancy the top FIFTEEN in the West of Scotland top flight.
Unsure about the East, but I think the top five would do the job easily enough.
But it's one down, and one up. Not only that, it's a bloody round-robin with the winners of the One-Horse-Towns-Between-Ayr-and-Stranraer League. The winner of that would be lucky to get a draw against a 3rd-tier WOSFL side.
See? A complete shower of shite! Stranraer Reserves, Dandelion & Burdoch FC, and so on.
But given the self-preservation, and the standards that the Junior outfits should be playing at, how long will it be until the Scottish leagues have the right teams in the right leagues? I honestly think that I may not see it in my lifetime, and it's so cut-throat that I think more than a couple of teams could go to the wall in the chase for that elusive place in the big league.
iaatpies
Well-Known Member
You genuinely wouldn't. Attendances at cup games featuring senior clubs and colt teams have generally been woeful. Fans stay away. There's a significant drop in attendances between rounds where a league team is drawn against a colt team.
Robert California
Well-Known Member
No way Clydebank would win the Lowland League
Andy0Combs
Active Member
This latest mess is just another example of the bad governing of The Scottish Football Pyramid. The SFA or an independent third party need to step in and act as a governing body for the whole pyramid.
With the collapse of the junior system and teams moving over to the senior set up the SFA should have stepped in and brought about a change in structure. All the various leagues in the pyramid are "Members" leagues and the members vote on the structure of the relegation at present only one team drops out the lowland league (Tier 5) which is causing a bottle neck for the ambitious Tier 6 West of Scotland, East of Scotland) teams trying to come up through the system. The SFA need to restructure and challenge these member leagues on their relegation and promotion and if they continue to bottleneck then remove that member league from the pyramid. As part of this restructure Colt teams for all top flight clubs interested should be factored in.
I'd also say the West of Scotland Premier should be given a status as Tier 5 alongside the Lowland (which i'd convert to being East region) and Highland leagues which would allow our Colts to play in the West as part of the restructure.
With the collapse of the junior system and teams moving over to the senior set up the SFA should have stepped in and brought about a change in structure. All the various leagues in the pyramid are "Members" leagues and the members vote on the structure of the relegation at present only one team drops out the lowland league (Tier 5) which is causing a bottle neck for the ambitious Tier 6 West of Scotland, East of Scotland) teams trying to come up through the system. The SFA need to restructure and challenge these member leagues on their relegation and promotion and if they continue to bottleneck then remove that member league from the pyramid. As part of this restructure Colt teams for all top flight clubs interested should be factored in.
I'd also say the West of Scotland Premier should be given a status as Tier 5 alongside the Lowland (which i'd convert to being East region) and Highland leagues which would allow our Colts to play in the West as part of the restructure.
Fans of sides in T2-T4 are of the belief that this is special treatment for their top-flight masters, and when you consider that nine B Teams are very poor, and the best two aren't seen as legitimate opposition due to the closed-shop stance of their chairmen, I can't say that their feelings are unjustifiable. Not only that, when we reach the final there'll be fans thinking they've been done out of everything from an incredibly rare trip across the border to Solihull Moors to a piece of silverwear itself.
If the B-teams were competing between the Lowland to Championship levels, I feel there would be an air of legitimate-opposition to them.
But we can't have that. Too many two-bob-mob Chairman are saying, "Sod you, we'll cut off our noses and force you to loan out players for league football, then when you do loan them to us we'll want you to pay the bulk of the wage because our average crowd is 37."
Robert California
Well-Known Member
The headline of this is very misleading. For clarity:
Lowland League were told by the SFA that in order to continue with their blessing for B Teams for 22/23, they would need to have an open and transparent process that would allow SPFL team the opportunity. The LL subsequently did this or the SFA would not have permitted.
The LL then received expressions of interest from Rangers, Celtic and Hearts. The SFA said they would allow the LL to expand to 19 teams for on season, but the LL did not want 3 x B teams and an uneven number which would have made one club idle every week.
The LL were then happy to go through a scoring process to select 2 of 3, but Rangers, Celtic and Hearts have opted to stay "as one"
As such, the LL will now vote at their AGM on Monday whether to include all 3 x guest clubs or none. And it is highly likely to be none.
The bottom line is that Hearts have thrown a spanner in the works, and Rangers & Celtic don;t have the appetite to be seen to competing at the expense of Hearts.
As expected, the SFA have shown no leadership in this whole process and left all the risk and headaches to the LL, which acting as background puppetmaster
Lowland League were told by the SFA that in order to continue with their blessing for B Teams for 22/23, they would need to have an open and transparent process that would allow SPFL team the opportunity. The LL subsequently did this or the SFA would not have permitted.
The LL then received expressions of interest from Rangers, Celtic and Hearts. The SFA said they would allow the LL to expand to 19 teams for on season, but the LL did not want 3 x B teams and an uneven number which would have made one club idle every week.
The LL were then happy to go through a scoring process to select 2 of 3, but Rangers, Celtic and Hearts have opted to stay "as one"
As such, the LL will now vote at their AGM on Monday whether to include all 3 x guest clubs or none. And it is highly likely to be none.
The bottom line is that Hearts have thrown a spanner in the works, and Rangers & Celtic don;t have the appetite to be seen to competing at the expense of Hearts.
As expected, the SFA have shown no leadership in this whole process and left all the risk and headaches to the LL, which acting as background puppetmaster
OK. I take your points about the SPFL and SFA.
My first and last sentences still stand though... "F*cking shambles. Scottish football is such a joke!"
Southside_shug
Well-Known Member
To be fair it affects teams who have aspirations to improve through the system
At the start of the season there were several teams who had a change of promotion into the system when all the junior came across
Now even the league winners have to play in play offs
Many of the former junior sides have invested in infrastructure only for the tables to be turned on them
At the start of the season there were several teams who had a change of promotion into the system when all the junior came across
Now even the league winners have to play in play offs
Many of the former junior sides have invested in infrastructure only for the tables to be turned on them
It's never going to happen the SPFL is run by the clubs it would go to a vote and it won't pass because the clubs have no interest in B teams taking part in the league.
The Lowland League is a bit of a closed shop as well to be honest denying clubs from the West, East and South of Scotland leagues automatic promotion instead only 1 of them will be promoted after a 3 way playoff system.
Delboy Trotter
Well-Known Member
In all fairness, I can see why the lowland clubs are pissed off
We rock up and get invited into their league, everyone happy
Hearts then try to piggy back on and we demand they adjust their league to accommodate us? I wouldn’t be happy either and can see why they’re ready to reject our ultimatum.
We rock up and get invited into their league, everyone happy
Hearts then try to piggy back on and we demand they adjust their league to accommodate us? I wouldn’t be happy either and can see why they’re ready to reject our ultimatum.
Desert Loyal
Well-Known Member
Big Glasgow two is a good thing. It was put in place very badly. It was football's equivalent of moving from Greenock to Glasgow (a good thing), but getting there via the Old Largs Road then Kilmacolm and Bridge of Weir at rush-hour (mental).
The self-preservation in the SPFL top-flight play-off is bad. Knackered Championship team versus SPFL outfit with a couple of weeks to rest players with knocks, or one yellow card before suspension.
The Highland/Lowland sides playing off, to play off against the very bottom of the League, is worse.
But then consider the total dug-shite that make up the bottom third in the Lowland League, and how difficult it is to get into that.
Promotion to the Lowland League is via a three match round robin play-off between the winners of the East of Scotland Football League, South of Scotland Football League, and West of Scotland Football League, subject to their respective champions meeting league membership criteria.
Lots of teams in the West and East Leagues would be favourites against 75% of the Lowland League, but I think it's fair to say that the top 25% in the West and East would have the proverbial walkover against the bottom half of the Lowland.
I'd fancy the top FIFTEEN in the West of Scotland top flight.
Unsure about the East, but I think the top five would do the job easily enough.
But it's one down, and one up. Not only that, it's a bloody round-robin with the winners of the One-Horse-Towns-Between-Ayr-and-Stranraer League. The winner of that would be lucky to get a draw against a 3rd-tier WOSFL side.
See? A complete shower of shite! Stranraer Reserves, Dandelion & Burdoch FC, and so on.
But given the self-preservation, and the standards that the Junior outfits should be playing at, how long will it be until the Scottish leagues have the right teams in the right leagues? I honestly think that I may not see it in my lifetime, and it's so cut-throat that I think more than a couple of teams could go to the wall in the chase for that elusive place in the big league.
Might be simplifying but I always thought extend the SPL to say 18/20 teams, then shuffle the pack upwards through the leagues and put x amount of colt teams in at the bottom as replacements .
A complete rethink and rebuild is required in Scottish football. I'm not sure exactly how la liga works but that should be the blueprint for scottish football.
Uncle Albert
Well-Known Member
Tino_Col
Well-Known Member
Which is what set up their CWC tie against West Ham. Which they won.
The infamous ghost match between West Ham and Real Madrid Castilla
That Real Madrid Castilla were in Europe at all was a minor miracle, but it was made all the more spectacular with two infamous ties against West Ham
thesefootballtimes.co
AbronhillBear
Well-Known Member
Should apply to join the English Northern League.
Was just about to come on and post that.
CaptainBlue
Member
I stand by my point that Scottish football hates itself to death
TCWNS1872
Well-Known Member
I seriously hope that we are not the club which is driving this ‘ultimatum’. The arrogance therein is cringeworthy. Being party to it is shameful if true.
Why not have a reserve league once more? Why not let the non-league clubs battle it out amongst themselves to see who can make it to the senior leagues proper? If money is the issue for the Lowland League, then why not invite the big clubs from the West and East into it initially?
From Rangers point of view, I can see the issue of trying to give youngsters (who aren’t yet good enough to make the reserves) competitive game time, hence applying to be a guest member of the Lowland League in the first place. But we can’t be seen to be dictating terms to these clubs - it’s a nonsense. These clubs have had a healthy setup surviving for years without professional sides ‘B’ teams for decades. Yes, times change, but larger clubs should not be hijacking the running of these competitions.
If they are desperate for competition that involves older journeymen pros, then why not explore a SPFL Reserve League across all four divisions instead of limiting it to a Premier League Reserve League? Surely it shouldn’t be incumbent on non-league setups to accommodate the deficiencies of full-time professional clubs? If they can’t secure competitive enough competition for their playing staff then that’s their problem not sides like University football teams. In fact, I’d go as far to say that it is pretty pathetic.
As a regular attender of what was previously called ‘junior’ football, it is of no surprise to me that within a year or two of inception, this rush to ‘professional elite level’ football, is tainting and potentially ruining the non-league game in this country.
If Rangers are manifest in this dictating of terms, the club should hang its head in shame.
Why not have a reserve league once more? Why not let the non-league clubs battle it out amongst themselves to see who can make it to the senior leagues proper? If money is the issue for the Lowland League, then why not invite the big clubs from the West and East into it initially?
From Rangers point of view, I can see the issue of trying to give youngsters (who aren’t yet good enough to make the reserves) competitive game time, hence applying to be a guest member of the Lowland League in the first place. But we can’t be seen to be dictating terms to these clubs - it’s a nonsense. These clubs have had a healthy setup surviving for years without professional sides ‘B’ teams for decades. Yes, times change, but larger clubs should not be hijacking the running of these competitions.
If they are desperate for competition that involves older journeymen pros, then why not explore a SPFL Reserve League across all four divisions instead of limiting it to a Premier League Reserve League? Surely it shouldn’t be incumbent on non-league setups to accommodate the deficiencies of full-time professional clubs? If they can’t secure competitive enough competition for their playing staff then that’s their problem not sides like University football teams. In fact, I’d go as far to say that it is pretty pathetic.
As a regular attender of what was previously called ‘junior’ football, it is of no surprise to me that within a year or two of inception, this rush to ‘professional elite level’ football, is tainting and potentially ruining the non-league game in this country.
If Rangers are manifest in this dictating of terms, the club should hang its head in shame.
Chris the Bandito
Well-Known Member
They should just promote another club from the tier below. As mentioned in SM's post above the LL is acting like a flow valve in terms of turning the Scottish football pyramid into a meritocracy
Kowloon72
Well-Known Member
Most Scottish teams don't have a reserve/U-21 side. They can't afford it.
There was some talk of Livingston (and I think St Mirren) being barred from taking up a Euro spot last season as they didn't have one the requisite under age sides required to gain a license.
Kowloon72
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't be against an extension for the novelty (and think it might help with a Euro push), but the clubs most firmly against it would be us and that lot, followed in turn by the likes of Hearts, Hibs and Aberdeen. Significantly reduced revenue for all of us.
Interestingly, Portugal often have the exact opposite conversation. They discuss making the league smaller to increase the number of games between the top 3.
BoyciesDa
Well-Known Member
Moe Johnson
Well-Known Member
Why is that a joke? We should do exactly that
tazzabear
Well-Known Member
By the same token, we can’t be blackmailed or railroaded here.
We are also helping them a fair bit as well.
Bigger attendances, maybe more sponsorship, might even get a tv deal!
barrheadbear
Well-Known Member
The big plus of LL is that our B team, made up of players 18 and younger are playing against men, players physically superior, therefore forcing our young lads to grow up quickly.
Robert California
Well-Known Member
The SFA won't let the LL go to 20 teams. Ian Maxwell suggested this but it was not supported Mike Mulraney or any of the Professional Game Board.
Also, the Lowland League offers more access for promotion than both Highland League or the SPFL League 2.
Robert California
Well-Known Member
The tables haven;t been turned FFS, they knew the set-up before they agreed to join the Pyramid and it hasn't changed, this if their first full season as part of the process and it's not even finished yet.
deBoersHeader
Well-Known Member
They really need to create a LL2.
Chris the Bandito
Well-Known Member
Why do the SFA even get a say?
They say they don't want to run leagues but they want to tell the people who do what to do.
Top 18?
Nice in theory, but let's consider the standards of the top six in the Championship who'd take us to 18, and the next two who'd be looking for promotion.
We already have enough issues with the lack of competition giving the yahoos an easy time of it, and with Aberdeen/Hibs/Dundee Utd having lengthy records of atrocities against the smellies followed by super-human efforts against us? I don't see how increasing the number of sides could be anything other than a dilution of the levels of competition.
Thinking of the records of the eight against all Celtic sides since Lou Macari was sent back to the bookies.
Other than the occasional Killie/Caley result, there's not much from the rest that's worthy of note.
Raith 1-1 Scum, at Starks Park, under the Paedophile Protector?
Dougie Imrie's league-cup penalty-winner for Morton at the piggery, in extra-time
Can't think of anything else.
Why does the standard matter? Because in the middle of a 5-1 Euro-humping at the hands of some mob from No-Way with a number in their name, they were on a very lengthy unbeaten run. That unbeaten run was as much down to the dismal opposition as Gio's surprising ignorance regards what we face and must do domestically.
If the competition is anywhere near average, a side that beats Dortmund, Braga & Leipzig in Europe is able to claw back 10+ points dropped against a mob that's taken a doing from Europe's least likely Norwegians since Jann Teigen and his band at the '78 Eurovision!
But it's a lot more difficult to claw those six points back if the vermin are coming home to face a Dundee side where there's been undeniable piggery-pokery going on, or those cowardly shitebags from the North-East, or Hibs under that week's manager...
WilkinsBullet
Well-Known Member
Should be a national conference league. Top 8 Lowlanders, top 8 Highlanders then four guest clubs. Probably us, them and the two Edinburgh clubs. Direct promotion to league 2. Aberdeen B Dundee clubs etc can make up the Highland League numbers. Also means in a sense less of a gap for established clubs to fall. For example much less of an abyss for Berwicks and Cowdenbeaths to fall in to.
elfideldo
Well-Known Member
Rangers LL lineups in the main were made up of U20 and U19 players. Of U18 players only Leon King, Charlie Lindsay and Robbie Ure had starts in double figures over the 34 games.
Stockport bear
Well-Known Member
This true about Hibs and Motherwell? Hadn't seen this anywhere
derek145
Well-Known Member
My mate plays with Darvel and that's what they've been told.
