Controversial football opinions

Leo_Ger

Well-Known Member
The amount of coaching that youngsters get these days has improved technique beyond all recognition from 80s & 90s but has dramatically reduced invention and individual decision-making and taking of responsibility.

It's not really the amount of coaching that's reduces the latter. It's that the hours dedicated to informal and unorganised football/sport are no longer widely at a level to develop invention and individual decision-making and taking of responsibility.

Kids at pro-youth level generally train 4 hours 30 minutes in a week then play a game at the weekend of circa 90 minutes. That's 6 hours of football across a week and that's about the most someone will get. If it's not supported by individual practice and unorganised football then you won't see a great development in the skills you listed. As no matter what's done in those training sessions, it isn't enough time to develop them. If you had both the training and a higher amount of time dedicated to informal/organised playing then you'd see all areas improve.

In terms of 'taking responsibility', there's an argument that is a wider environmental and societal issue. As kids aren't really given independence and responsibility in the same way as previously, that's why you have kids whose only sport practice is the organised adult-centric version where parents drive them to and pick them up from training.
 
Last edited:

Dcalm

Well-Known Member
Every record broken is utterly meaningless now because of the change of the game and the amount of matches played and it makes players who would get ignored at any other time into undeserving legends.
I have believed that for years. My comparison was the modern day Liverpool V Old Liverpool with Rush, Barnes, Beardsley, etc. Ian Rush in the 80's (1980 to 87) Liverpool team scored 14 goals in Europe with 26 appearances, but to to score those goals they had to win a domestic trophy or finish in a decent position to get EUFA cup football. Teams winning the Champions League when they aren't even their countries champion is a farce and devalues the competition.
 

SamEng

Well-Known Member
I have believed that for years. My comparison was the modern day Liverpool V Old Liverpool with Rush, Barnes, Beardsley, etc. Ian Rush in the 80's (1980 to 87) Liverpool team scored 14 goals in Europe with 26 appearances, but to to score those goals they had to win a domestic trophy or finish in a decent position to get EUFA cup football. Teams winning the Champions League when they aren't even their countries champion is a farce and devalues the competition.
Pants.Its now basically a competition for the elite teams in the elite leagues of Europe.Accept that fact.What would devalue it is in the old european cup smaller teams drawing other smaller teams all the way to the final.Romance of the cup rubbish.
 

ronadamus_prime

Well-Known Member
I have believed that for years. My comparison was the modern day Liverpool V Old Liverpool with Rush, Barnes, Beardsley, etc. Ian Rush in the 80's (1980 to 87) Liverpool team scored 14 goals in Europe with 26 appearances, but to to score those goals they had to win a domestic trophy or finish in a decent position to get EUFA cup football. Teams winning the Champions League when they aren't even their countries champion is a farce and devalues the competition.

Watching Manchester City steamroller Flora Tallinn devalues the competition even more. It also makes the clubs and UEFA very little money.

People don't watch the Champions League to watch the champions of a country square off against one another. They watch it because they want to see likes of Real Madrid vs Ac Milan or Manchester United vs Bayern Munich play each other. Irrespective if these teams are reigning champions of their respective countries or not. You could argue the name is stupid and they should change it but they wont.

I'd argue the biggest damage that UEFA ever did to itself regarding the Champions League was not maintaining that a certain number of games remained free to air on terrestrial television across Europe. That's a big part of why interest has waned among regular punters.
 

Jamiegatami

Well-Known Member
It wasn’t sky sports money that ruined football, it was sky sports never ending stream of modern boring wanky analysts.

When it was Keys and Gray on MNF and Jeff Stelling, Rodney Marsh and George Best on Soccer Saturday it was much more entertaining.
 

SamEng

Well-Known Member
It's not really the amount of coaching that's reduces the latter. It's that the hours dedicated to informal and unorganised football/sport are no longer widely at a level to develop invention and individual decision-making and taking of responsibility.

Kids at pro-youth level generally train 4 hours 30 minutes in a week then play a game at the weekend of circa 90 minutes. That 6 hours of football across a week and that's about the most someone will get. If it's not supported by individual practice and unorganised football then you won't see a great development in the skills you listed. As no matter what's done in those training sessions, it isn't enough time to develop them. If you had both the training and a higher amount of time dedicated to informal/organised playing then you'd see all areas improve.

In terms of 'taking responsibility', there's an argument that is a wider environmental and societal issue. As kids aren't really given independence and responsibility in the same way as previously, that's why you have kids whose only sport practice is the organised adult-centric version where parents drive them to and pick them up from training.
Your avatar still looks like an eyelash on my phone.Arrrrrrgģggghhhhhh.
 

Ambiorix

Well-Known Member
There's no point having a co-commentator. They seldom add anything insightful, and encourage too much inconsequential chit-chat.
 

Mount_Bear

Well-Known Member
Football 'back in the day' was garbage.

Watch footage of the 1958 World Cup Final on YouTube and you'll laugh at the standard. The players are literally walking about and look worse than Sunday league players.

Even in the 70s when the Cruyff turn was 'invented'. It's the most simple skill in football that 3 year olds can do.
Correct. The defending in that game is so bad, sooo bad. Worse than the current women's game for sure.
 

Dcalm

Well-Known Member
People don't watch the Champions League to watch the champions of a country square off against one another. They watch it because they want to see likes of Real Madrid vs Ac Milan or Manchester United vs Bayern Munich play each other.


If people were only interested in the big names playing each other then why was there a big kick up when they all wanted to piss off and do their own thing.
 

fergie1959

Well-Known Member
Following on from the controversial rangers opinions, what are your controversial general football opinions.

I have 2 main ones

1. Zidanes champions league final goal was brilliant but not deserving of the gushing 20 years on. Bales one in the champions league final a few years back was far better.

2. Carlos Alberto goal in 1970 was average at best. It was done at walking pace and there was absolutely zero press from opposition player. Decent goal but nowhere near as good as made out.
Mingeball is good.
 

Sonsofwilliam1989

Well-Known Member
Football 'back in the day' was garbage.

Watch footage of the 1958 World Cup Final on YouTube and you'll laugh at the standard. The players are literally walking about and look worse than Sunday league players.

Even in the 70s when the Cruyff turn was 'invented'. It's the most simple skill in football that 3 year olds can do.
Show me a 3 year old doing the Cruyff turn properly.
 

LOL 133

Well-Known Member
The best thing about VAR is it shows how utterly stupid offside is. Who cares where someone's toe is in comparison to someone else's toe? Scrap it now.
 

GovanFront4

Well-Known Member
Messi/Ronaldo have massively covered up that the overall top level quality of players has decreased.

90’s or a 00’s world 11 absolutely batter one from 2010-19.

Not sure about that. Some absolutely incredible players outside Messi and Ronaldo. Real Madrids Champions League winning sides were unreal.
 

Bumplittledipper

Well-Known Member
The Europa League is more exciting than the Champions League.

The vast majority of time spent watching football is actually quite boring but we all continue for the infrequent moments that get you on your feet.

The amount of coaching that youngsters get these days has improved technique beyond all recognition from 80s & 90s but has dramatically reduced invention and individual decision-making and taking of responsibility.

My papa was was ahead of his time when he told me in the 1990s that football had been ruined by money. I didn’t see it then but I wholeheartedly agree with him now.
Along the same lines, The Championship in England is more exciting than the EPL.
 

GovanFront4

Well-Known Member
Having watched it back as an adult, Euro 96 was a shit tournament that also laid the foundations for modern football.
I watched it last year when the Euros were postponed. Terrible tournament and if it wasn't for it being held in England, them getting to the semis, the culture around Britpop and Cool Britannia then it wouldn't be spoken about the way it is. Same with Italia 90.

Controversial opinion from me is that UEFA's decision to host the Euros across Europe as a one off was a good idea in theory, but the way it was managed then with Covid etc put it on it's arse. Still a fantastic tournament on the park though.
 

GovanFront4

Well-Known Member
It is but the quality is massively overstated.
100%. I love it in the run in as it's usually quite close at the promotion and relegation places but a lot of games are a tough watch. Very poor quality and just a lot of effort and hard work.
 

ronadamus_prime

Well-Known Member
If people were only interested in the big names playing each other then why was there a big kick up when they all wanted to piss off and do their own thing.

For a multitude of different reasons. The main one being it was a crass power grab that would have altered the power dynamics of football as we know it. There was just too many unknowns surrounding it, so people rejected it almost instantly. It also messed with countless vested interests and financial deals, hence the media jumped on it instantly.

People in general are fairly content with the way the Champions League works at the moment. The issue is, the money involved in the top 5 Leagues is utterly obscene. That's where the disparity is.

Reverting back to the old style European Cup doesn't solve the disparity issue within modern football.
 

TheMish

Well-Known Member
Jesus fucking Christ.
Seems you have missed the theme of the thread TBH.

I much preferred football with wingers, two central midfielders asked to do more i.e a pair like Viera and Petit or Viera and Silva a Keane and Scholes, with players asked to do more both ways

Arsenal at their best under Wenger, Man U at their best under Ferguson, Rangers at their best under Smith, it is a way of playing football I much preferred to that which was predominantly introduced by Mourinho.

Don't @me I just don't find the 3 in midfield thing with one often sitting as fun
 

ICA_86

Well-Known Member
Outside of the Old Firm, the MLS is comfortably a higher standard than Scottish football.

I’m not even sure that’s controversial any more though.
 

GovanFront4

Well-Known Member
Seems you have missed the theme of the thread TBH.

I much preferred football with wingers, two central midfielders asked to do more i.e a pair like Viera and Petit or Viera and Silva a Keane and Scholes, with players asked to do more both ways

Arsenal at their best under Wenger, Man U at their best under Ferguson, Rangers at their best under Smith, it is a way of playing football I much preferred to that which was predominantly introduced by Mourinho.

Don't @me I just don't find the 3 in midfield thing with one often sitting as fun

I've not missed the theme of this thread, but there's controversial then there is not appreciating football.

Honestly mate don't get that you don't enjoy players like Kante, Makalele or anyone in that mould.
 

TheMish

Well-Known Member
I've not missed the theme of this thread, but there's controversial then there is not appreciating football.

Honestly mate don't get that you don't enjoy players like Kante, Makalele or anyone in that mould.

Don't really enjoy them as players nah, find it a bit of a so so job, just doing what players like Viera, Gerrard and Keane could do TBH, but they could also create a chance, play a killer pass and score a goal as well
 

BigBadShep

Active Member
Match of the day is pointless now. You can watch the highlights anywhere and don’t have to listen to their shite pundits.

Belgium should never have given the job to Roberto martinez and have never looked like winning anything
 

Kubala

Well-Known Member
The French league cannot be classed as a "big5" league
And that goes before PSG becoming an oil-club.
They have a lot of diddy clubs and a few big clubs who challenge for top 4
I can't remember the exact figures but I'm sure Scotland has either won more or the same amount of European club trophies as France and both are behind Belgium.
 

Kubala

Well-Known Member
Seems you have missed the theme of the thread TBH.

I much preferred football with wingers, two central midfielders asked to do more i.e a pair like Viera and Petit or Viera and Silva a Keane and Scholes, with players asked to do more both ways

Arsenal at their best under Wenger, Man U at their best under Ferguson, Rangers at their best under Smith, it is a way of playing football I much preferred to that which was predominantly introduced by Mourinho.

Don't @me I just don't find the 3 in midfield thing with one often sitting as fun
Dunga and Deschamps were doing the water carrying thing in the 90s to great success were they not? I think what you're demonstrating is favoring the British approach when continental and worldwide tactics were evolving and moving on.
 

Kubala

Well-Known Member
If the Edinburgh teams got into the Europa Conference League, they'd get to the knockout round.

Scottish football is nowhere near as bad as it's made out to be.
I mean this is controversial alongside the one about Scottish football being better than you think when they get regularly beaten early on every year.
 

TheMish

Well-Known Member
Dunga and Deschamps were doing the water carrying thing in the 90s to great success were they not? I think what you're demonstrating is favoring the British approach when continental and worldwide tactics were evolving and moving on.

Man U won the CL playing as they did, Liverpool won a CL and made a CL final playing with 4 in midfield and Arsenal made a Final playing the same way TBF, pretty heavy British influence in 4 finals over 10 years so wouldn't say they were moving that far on/behind

And sure tactics have evolved and moved on, I'm just not of the view that it has really been to me enjoyment, which was kind of the point of the thread TBF
 

Imfeelingit

Well-Known Member
I mean this is controversial alongside the one about Scottish football being better than you think when they get regularly beaten early on every year.
if they were good enough to get out of the group they would be good enough to qualify for it in the first place !
 

Kubala

Well-Known Member
Seems mine isn't that controversial going by some comments in here but Scottish football is far more entertaining on and off the field than Champions League and English Premier League.

I say more entertaining rather than better but I would rather watch an entertaining game with two shite teams than a boring match with two good teams.
Have you seen A View from the Terrace where diddy team fans make the same argument about the lower leagues? That's all this is.
 

Stepupandplay

Well-Known Member
I have believed that for years. My comparison was the modern day Liverpool V Old Liverpool with Rush, Barnes, Beardsley, etc. Ian Rush in the 80's (1980 to 87) Liverpool team scored 14 goals in Europe with 26 appearances, but to to score those goals they had to win a domestic trophy or finish in a decent position to get EUFA cup football. Teams winning the Champions League when they aren't even their countries champion is a farce and devalues the competition.
A big club winning the champions league by beating several other big clubs from big leagues instead of champions of clubs from smaller leagues isn't what devalues the competition.
 

Treble Kings

Well-Known Member
The
That'll be why one dominated the Premier League and Europe while the other signed for Blackburn and potentially never got past a group stage?
To be fair Ferguson was made Blackburn skipper and got some Man of The Match awards. In truth he was a fine player.
 

Commander Bjorklund

Well-Known Member
Not sure about that. Some absolutely incredible players outside Messi and Ronaldo. Real Madrid's Champions League winning sides were unreal.


very small sample size as it's super subjective.

But 90's - Real and Juve both won a champions league, and competed in a final against each other - midfield of Deschamps/Davids/Zidane up against Seedorf/Redondo/Karembeu

00's - AC Milan won it the most that decade - but even taking their starting midfield from the final they lost that decade it was Pirlo/Seedorf/Gattuso/Kaka

You're right that there is still some incredible players outside of Messi/Ronaldo -but Madrids 2017 winning midfield - Kroos/Casemiro/Modric

Teams the beat midfields - Atletico - Tiago/Raul Garci/Gabi/Koke
Juventus - Khedira/Pjanic/Dybala
Liverpool - Milner/Henderson/Wijnaldum

Now I've not going to say there's bad players, but in my opinion, there is a noticeable drop off in quality of overall player.
 

OzzyGersman

Well-Known Member
Match of the day is pointless now. You can watch the highlights anywhere and don’t have to listen to their shite pundits.

Belgium should never have given the job to Roberto martinez and have never looked like winning anything
I recently started watching MOTD on a Saturday night without having any knowledge of the scores during the day. It makes it so much better. Also good to switch off from football on the Saturday (provided Rangers are not playing) and spend more time with the family. Less time on the phone.

I recommend it so long as you're not a gambler I guess and keeping an eye out for your acca.
 

Sheamaker

Well-Known Member
Have you seen A View from the Terrace where diddy team fans make the same argument about the lower leagues? That's all this is.
Been to a few lower league games and I would agree with them. Some are very entertaining. Used to go to Highland League games also, same thing a 4-3 in any league is more entertaining that a 0-0 for instance.

Stockport beating Bolton in the FA Cup, anyone that watched it have said was one of the better games they have seen.
 

FortWilliamLoyal

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
Football generally bores the tits of me and I would much rather watch anything else than two teams I have no interest in.
 

Treble Kings

Well-Known Member
Is this controversial? If there had been a British League since almost Day 1 would we have won a bucket load of European trophies by virtue of playing in a much more competitive league?
 

Kubala

Well-Known Member
Is this controversial? If there had been a British League since almost Day 1 would we have won a bucket load of European trophies by virtue of playing in a much more competitive league?
There's nothing to suggest we wouldn't be another Newcastle.
 

GovanFront4

Well-Known Member
very small sample size as it's super subjective.

But 90's - Real and Juve both won a champions league, and competed in a final against each other - midfield of Deschamps/Davids/Zidane up against Seedorf/Redondo/Karembeu

00's - AC Milan won it the most that decade - but even taking their starting midfield from the final they lost that decade it was Pirlo/Seedorf/Gattuso/Kaka

You're right that there is still some incredible players outside of Messi/Ronaldo -but Madrids 2017 winning midfield - Kroos/Casemiro/Modric

Teams the beat midfields - Atletico - Tiago/Raul Garci/Gabi/Koke
Juventus - Khedira/Pjanic/Dybala
Liverpool - Milner/Henderson/Wijnaldum

Now I've not going to say there's bad players, but in my opinion, there is a noticeable drop off in quality of overall player.
In 2011 that Barcelona v Man United final had Iniesta, Xavi and Busquets in the middle of the park. Arguably the best midfield of all time. Some relatively average players won the CL in the 00's too. That Liverpool side in 07 gets nowhere near a final these days.

I think the Real Madrid v Juventus final is probably the best starting 22 in a match in the modern era btw.
 
Top