Could HIbs or Hearts challenge for the title this season. ?

Otis Blue

Well-Known Member
Edinburgh is full of apathetic football fans imo. I’ve thought this for years. They just don’t go to watch their clubs regularly enough. They fill hampden if they get to a final but where are they week and week out. A dichotomy of that is my own place of work. 8 of us regularly meet for work related stuff and it consists of 4 from Glasgow and 4 from Edinburgh and we are all passionate about football , we talk for ages about games when we are together. The 4 from Glasgow are (me) 3 season ticket holders at Ibrox and 1 at Celtic. The 4 from Edinburgh are 2 Hibs and 2 hearts fans. None of the Edinburgh lot have been to a hearts or Hibs game for years, yet they talk in detail about Hibs and hearts tactics, live local enough to the stadiums but never go to watch their teams. I find it bizarre.
 

BWO

Well-Known Member
Edinburgh is full of apathetic football fans imo. I’ve thought this for years. They just don’t go to watch their clubs regularly enough. They fill hampden if they get to a final but where are they week and week out. A dichotomy of that is my own place of work. 8 of us regularly meet for work related stuff and it consists of 4 from Glasgow and 4 from Edinburgh and we are all passionate about football , we talk for ages about games when we are together. The 4 from Glasgow are (me) 3 season ticket holders at Ibrox and 1 at Celtic. The 4 from Edinburgh are 2 Hibs and 2 hearts fans. None of the Edinburgh lot have been to a hearts or Hibs game for years, yet they talk in detail about Hibs and hearts tactics, live local enough to the stadiums but never go to watch their teams. I find it bizarre.

You’ve just described everywhere in Scotland outside of Glasgow, it’s not just Edinburgh.
The reason for it nobody outside of Glasgow has won the league in 36 years.
 

Noddy

Well-Known Member
You’ve just described everywhere in Scotland outside of Glasgow, it’s not just Edinburgh.
The reason for it nobody outside of Glasgow has won the league in 36 years.
Bar Hearts and Hibs in the 50s, Dundee and Killie in the 60s and Aberdeen and Dundee United in the 80s, the Old Firm have won the league since Scottish football began.
 

Otis Blue

Well-Known Member
You’ve just described everywhere in Scotland outside of Glasgow, it’s not just Edinburgh.
The reason for it nobody outside of Glasgow has won the league in 36 years.
Every other team in Scotland wouldn’t fill their end at a hampden final. Hibs and hearts seem to do it on the occasions they make it. So where are they on league match days. They can’t be bothered. It is this reason imo that their clubs are unsuccessful , more fans encourages more investment , sponsorship and in turn better players will be attracted to the club. Rangers fans proved this when we were in our demoted years and look where we are now.
 

monkey magic

Well-Known Member
Oddly enough, the Scottish Daily Mail football section today has a wee article on this very issue. Hibs and Hearts, Pretenders To The Title Throne. ? lol
 

The Union Flag

Well-Known Member
I feel like one of these threads pop up at the start of every season. They don’t have big enough squads and in truth aren’t good enough. Name any of their players who would make our first 11? To be honest though I wouldn’t be against them going the distance and challenging us. Two reasonable sized clubs and fanbases. It’s about time they all stepped up to support their clubs and not just when they reach a final.
 

_DON_

Well-Known Member
I can’t see any team outside the old firm winning the title due to having to play ourselves and them 4 times a season.
 

MeanMachine69

Active Member
No. If one of the other teams could win 5 games on the trot then maybe but there's only us and them who have that mentality going back to Ferguson and McLean's days. It's perfectly acceptable to their fans to win two, lose two, draw one, win, one... all the way through the season. They would need to luck out on a manager who believed they could win what is a pretty uncompetitive league and I can't see that happening when guys like Neilston and Ross areas good as they can get.
 

gazmac81

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
Its early days, yet but a hypothetical to ponder. If any of them actually won the League, they would automatically gain almost £ 30 million CL money. ? Yes, its a boring Monday night. l
Hmmm not win the league but possibly split the old firm if celtic continue to fail.........
 

Mustang mad

Well-Known Member
Simple answer is, no.
They will fall away.
Only way either will stay in touch with Rangers, is if Rangers hit a rough patch and start dropping points
 

HandsomeHead

Well-Known Member
People forget that Kilmarnock were second in the table as late as December in 1998/99.

There have been quite a few diddy teams over the years that look decent at this stage of the season before disappearing back into irrelevance.
I think the last time anyone sustained something approximating a challenge throughout a season was Hearts back in 2005/06 when pipping us into second place, but even then they still finished 17 points behind the Yahoos.

You really have to go back to ‘90/91 when we beat Aberdeen on the final day to prevent them winning the title for the last time anyone other than us or them were seriously challenging for it.

I’d be extremely surprised if either Edinburgh club finished in the top two this season simply because they just don’t have the strength in depth to sustain a proper challenge, but right now it is actually quite refreshing in a weird way.
 

JFK-1

Well-Known Member
Bar Hearts and Hibs in the 50s, Dundee and Killie in the 60s and Aberdeen and Dundee United in the 80s, the Old Firm have won the league since Scottish football began.
The game has changed since then. Bosman had a massive detrimental effect on the rest. You think the likes of Miller and McLeish would have spent an entire career at the sheep post Bosman?
 

academical

Well-Known Member
Bar Hearts and Hibs in the 50s, Dundee and Killie in the 60s and Aberdeen and Dundee United in the 80s, the Old Firm have won the league since Scottish football began.
Aberdeen also won it in the 50s.

Motherwell won it in the 30s.

And if you go way back to the late 19th and the start of the 20th century, Hibs won it, Hearts won it twice, Third Lanark won it, and Dumbarton won it twice.

So the duopoly has been broken from time to time.

From 1905 to 1939, Motherwell’s win in 1932 was the only exception.

The current run, from 1986 to present, is the longest period of duopoly ever.
 

WilkinsBullet

Well-Known Member
My thoughts exactly.

I really do feel that if BT Sport is still a thing when the SPFL rights are up for renewal (there has been talk of BT selling it's sports broadcasting business) then the league should sit down with them and propose an 18 team, 34 match per season league with BT holding exclusive rights.

Current 12 plus:

Killie
Inverness
Partick
Dunfermline
Ayr
Hamilton

Two sides automatically relegated. 16th placed side go into a playoff with 3rd placed Championship side.

34 games per season versus the current 38 also means we could have a proper winter break in January with less chance of fixture pile ups.

IMO there is no question we'd get a good deal, even with only two OF league meetings per season.

BT were happy to show Scottish football even when Sky had the rights to all the OF matches, so clearly that wouldn't be a deal breaker for them. And their coverage is ten times better than Sky's.

Sky have absolute contempt for the Scottish game.
Does anybody seriously prefer to watch two games v Hamilton at the expense of two old firm games?
 
Both will have several injuries over winter spell, play great against us & take points off us potentially but will then lose to ross county a week later. Lack of depth and consistency will see them capitulate. Its a 2 horse race and always will be, lucky for us we will be first.
 

Rt. Hon. Bearman

Well-Known Member
Does anybody seriously prefer to watch two games v Hamilton at the expense of two old firm games?
It’s about marketing the league as a whole.

No one outside of Scotland gives a shit about the Scottish league because it’s seen as a boring two horse race.

Under the current system we could end up playing the same team six times a season (if you include the cups). That’s insane. It’s boring. It’s tinpot.
 

WilkinsBullet

Well-Known Member
It’s about marketing the league as a whole.

No one outside of Scotland gives a shit about the Scottish league because it’s seen as a boring two horse race.

Under the current system we could end up playing the same team six times a season (if you include the cups). That’s insane. It’s boring. It’s tinpot.
Marketing the league by shoving in pointless games like Accies v Ayr? The big bucks will be rolling in for that. What Scottish football needs is investment and it's not coming from games like those. Get our biggest clubs playing each other on TV in our biggest grounds with decent crowds.
 

MearnsUnionist

Well-Known Member
Nah, once the bheggars get the Japanese Messi back they will unfortunately be our only challengers this season. Depth and quality of squad is key to winning this league. We have both but the scum will definitely add to their wafer thin squad in January if they are still within touching distance and the other two wont have enough depth and quality to run the course of this season. Hibs look stronger though.


The depth and quality of Celtic's squad has already been exposed.
They are far weaker than even last season and the points gap between us will constantly grow, as the season progresses.

They will not be able to sustain any sort of challenge this season and while I do think that they'll finish 2nd, they will be closer to 3rd than they will be to the Champions
 

gazmac81

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
It’s about marketing the league as a whole.

No one outside of Scotland gives a shit about the Scottish league because it’s seen as a boring two horse race.

Under the current system we could end up playing the same team six times a season (if you include the cups). That’s insane. It’s boring. It’s tinpot.
Six Old Firms are exciting though....
 

Wamphray_Loyal

Well-Known Member
Injuries ,Suspensions and possible player sales in January will end their hopes of any title,they will push the beggars for 2nd place though .
 

Bangersbc

Well-Known Member
And that is the saddest part of it mate. Imagine being a fan of a team in any sport where you have absolutely no ambition?

A bigger top flight would totally reinvigorate the football fans of teams outwith Glasgow. Facing the old firm only 4 times a year rather than 8 will naturally create opportunities for a closer top of the league, and let other fans feel that they are in a title race themselves rather than a two horse race.

And yet there is next to no appetite for an 18-20 team league. Such a shame, as it would genuinely go such a long way to saving the game north of the border.
 

Bangersbc

Well-Known Member
Six Old Firms are exciting though....

Will they stay that way forever though? Sky would quite frankly let there be an old firm every week if they could, but I think we all know that the rarity of an occasion adds to the excitement.

A larger top flight would mean a smaller gap between the old firm and the rest (on account of them only being able to drop 12 points a season against the big 2 than the current 24. Any upsets and they are right in there so long as clubs can get a bit of consistency against the lower teams in the league. If teams like Aberdeen, hibs, hearts or Dundee utd are seriously considered to be title challengers, their fans will start turning out in force more regularly, and the TV companies are more likely to prioritise the coverage of those games.
 

QuarterPounder

Active Member
Hearts’ are running on the adrenaline of being back in the top league. Their lack of squad quality means they’ll finish mid-table at best in my opinion. Hibs could challenge for second for a bit longer but I doubt it’ll last past January. Once the tramps go out of Europe they’ll secure second, which they should look at as relative success this season.
 

MearnsUnionist

Well-Known Member
It’s about marketing the league as a whole.

No one outside of Scotland gives a shit about the Scottish league because it’s seen as a boring two horse race.

Under the current system we could end up playing the same team six times a season (if you include the cups). That’s insane. It’s boring. It’s tinpot.


I get your points mate, but look at other nation's leagues.
Do many people really care that much about leagues outside their own?

In the vast majority of them, no more than 2 or 3 teams have a realistic chance of winning the league at the start of the season.

Germany, France, Holland, Portugal, Spain, even the much lauded EPL is no different.

Some leagues, Germany's for example, is way more one sided than Scotland.
 
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Bangersbc

Well-Known Member
Aberdeen also won it in the 50s.

Motherwell won it in the 30s.

And if you go way back to the late 19th and the start of the 20th century, Hibs won it, Hearts won it twice, Third Lanark won it, and Dumbarton won it twice.

So the duopoly has been broken from time to time.

From 1905 to 1939, Motherwell’s win in 1932 was the only exception.

The current run, from 1986 to present, is the longest period of duopoly ever.

But that's not been down to sheer luck. It's compounded due to finances, and the fact that teams are no longer largely community based, but instead are expected to be international brands to attract the best players from a cross the globe. In the professional era, the old firm have built up such a competitive advantage as to the point it is unassailable.

We in 2012 effectively started from scratch again and still returned to the 2 horse race just 7 years later and as league champions 9 years later.

It's not like the 20s where edinburgh teams are just waiting for their next golden generation to come through. Even when they produce talent that may let them complete, they can not afford to keep them.

The fact out top flight has not had room to accommodate Hibs and Hearts, Dundee or Dundee Utd in the last few years is a Major red flag. These teams are large enough that (barring major financial disaster) they should always be comfortably in the top flight. It would be like seeing Arsenal, Chelsea or Liverpool relegated down south. And of course with their relegations, has seen teams who should be asping to be our rivals set back decades. Even Aberdeen should have been relegated in 2000, meaning that in just the last 20 years, EVERY big team outwith the old firm has been relegated. Though mildly entertaining, it's not right if we are honest with ourselves. Hence why I see it as a massive red flag and reason for why an expanded top flight taking us to 18 teams is required asap. Just me?
 

GourockBlue50

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
Can't see it unless we have a major collapse.
Even then the scum would probably beat them to it even if they had to spend a bit of money in the winter break to do so.
 

MearnsUnionist

Well-Known Member
Hearts’ are running on the adrenaline of being back in the top league. Their lack of squad quality means they’ll finish mid-table at best in my opinion. Hibs could challenge for second for a bit longer but I doubt it’ll last past January. Once the tramps go out of Europe they’ll secure second, which they should look at as relative success this season.


Hearts have recruited well and have looked a more impressive side than Hibs, so far this season.
Woodburn and wee Barrie have injected some real creativity and pace to their front line.

Hibs position is flattering them at the moment imo.
Nisbet has been poor this season and is clearly missing Doidge.
Martin Boyle's penalties have seen them scrape draws and wins.

They've not been playing well
 

Noddy

Well-Known Member
Scrapping the 50/50 share of gate money in the 80s didn't help the competition in Scotland. Whilst I agree that St Johnstone bringing 100 fans to Ibrox and walking away with an even split of the attendance money is unfair on Rangers, it definitely had an effect on the competitiveness of the league.
 
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