Cristiano Ronaldo - Record Breaker

Hawftimepie

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
Totally can't be arsed with the age old debate, but he is an utter machine. I don't think there ever has or ever will be a player with such a dedication to making himself better. He is unreal.
 

BlueBritain

Well-Known Member
They are both phenomenons who've been at the top of the pile almost from day 1 of their respective careers. But I don't think many people genuinely believe Ronaldo is a better footballer than Messi in terms of skill, technique or ability. Both players will be remembered for as long as football is a thing.
I think you're close with what you're saying.

However, I'd put it down to Messi having the natural god given ability, whilst Ronaldo has worked ridiculously hard to equal Messi's ability.
 

Bowery Boy

Well-Known Member
I think you're close with what you're saying.

However, I'd put it down to Messi having the natural god given ability, whilst Ronaldo has worked ridiculously hard to equal Messi's ability.
There is no doubt his drive and determination is what has set him apart - he is a freak of nature. The fact he's even kept himself in the discussion with a guy as naturally gifted as Messi proves that. I don't think it's an insult to say Messi is more talented than Ronaldo - I don't think it's even slightly controversial.
 

TheMish

Well-Known Member
The majority of the ones used by footballers.

I would question that personally, there are a lot of skills, techniques and abilities I would say Ronaldo is better at than Messi.

It is part the great beauty of the two of them both being at the top of their game and why it can split opinion so often, they are different, they do have slightly different skillsets, that is what is great about football and how football can work.

I thought Prso was fantastic for Rangers, I also like Morelos, clearly, but as players, they both have different skills, techniques and abilities that doesn't necessarily make one of those players markedly better than the other.
 

Drumchapel-Bear

Well-Known Member
I've got no dog in the fight. There are legitimate cases to be made for both players imo being the GOAT / best of this generation.

Would have loved to have seen Messi come over to the EPL but he's took the easy option to go and play in Ligue 1 whilst Ronaldo has came to the best league in the world again at 37. I doubt I will even watch Messi playing 1 league game this season for PSG.
 

therealmackay

Well-Known Member
Most goals in the history of football.

Champions League all time scorer.

Top scorer in the history of international football.

All from a guy who played the first 3/4 seasons of his career as a winger with minimal end product.

The evolution of his game is genuinely unbelievable and its down to hard work, sacrifice and a drive that no other footballer has ever had.

GOAT.
Not even close to Pele’s record.

Even Trump couldn’t make that one fly.

Not a good start to an argument when the first line falls flat on its face.
 

Barrymoped

Well-Known Member
Not even close to Pele’s record.

Even Trump couldn’t make that one fly.

Not a good start to an argument when the first line falls flat on its face.
You just made a complete arse of that didn’t you? :shh:
Ronaldo’s official goals tally is now well ahead of Pele’s, and that quite literally is a fact from FIFA.

Pele’s claimed goals are highly dubious to say the least
 

dt17

A mate of mine.....
Would depend what specific skill, technique or ability was being spoken about to be fair.

Well I can't imagine many people watch football and think "ooft that header was out of this world...but dribbling past 4 or 5 players before scoring, nah not for me".
 

TheMish

Well-Known Member
Well I can't imagine many people watch football and think "ooft that header was out of this world...but dribbling past 4 or 5 players before scoring, nah not for me".

That's a quite mad statement to me be honest with you, I doubt many actually simply reduce football down like that and likely appreciate both talents to be honest with you bud.

I, and based on the reaction, about 50,000 other people, in the stadium alone, not even considering the numbers not in the stadium, thought the goal scored by Hellander at the weekend was absolutely fantastic, it didn't really matter to many that it was a header rather than dribbling past 4 or 5 players.
 

dh1963

Well-Known Member
Messi and Ronaldo were, and still are, incredible footballers who will be talked about amongst the greatest ever for as long as the game is played.

Who is better is totally about individual opinion.

But I don't like using stats as the decider. Who has scored more goals, who has more medals, etc. The simplest, and for me the best, way to decide for yourself who is better is by watching them.

We've all been lucky enough to see plenty of both, and if I could only have one of them for my team I'd choose Messi.
I see him as more creative, better passer, better link up play, more skilful, and more entertaining.

But it's almost unfair to call either of them second best as both are better than almost any other player who has played the game. I'm saying almost, as it's disrespectful to previous generations to dismiss them as inferior when they also had players who dominated the game as it was played at the time.

As a generation, this one should just enjoy both of them.
 

therealmackay

Well-Known Member
You just made a complete arse of that didn’t you? :shh:
Ronaldo’s official goals tally is now well ahead of Pele’s, and that quite literally is a fact from FIFA.

Pele’s claimed goals are highly dubious to say the least
Better call Guinness then to tell them Norris Mcwhirter fucked up that particular world record.
 

dt17

A mate of mine.....
That's a quite mad statement to me be honest with you, I doubt many actually simply reduce football down like that and likely appreciate both talents to be honest with you bud.

I, and based on the reaction, about 50,000 other people, in the stadium alone, not even considering the numbers not in the stadium, thought the goal scored by Hellander at the weekend was absolutely fantastic, it didn't really matter to many that it was a header rather than dribbling past 4 or 5 players.

I said it purely based on the previous post about each of them being better than the other at certain things - when (IMO) the things that make someone love football, Messi is clear - passing, dribbling, variety of goals, vision...basically Messi has something magic in him whereas Ronaldo is 'just' a goalscoring machine, ruthless and efficient. But you could watch a game where Ronaldo does nothing the full game then pops up with a goal, whereas with Messi he'll drop into midfield and make things happen.

Personal opinion.
 

TheMish

Well-Known Member
I said it purely based on the previous post about each of them being better than the other at certain things - when (IMO) the things that make someone love football, Messi is clear - passing, dribbling, variety of goals, vision...basically Messi has something magic in him whereas Ronaldo is 'just' a goalscoring machine, ruthless and efficient. But you could watch a game where Ronaldo does nothing the full game then pops up with a goal, whereas with Messi he'll drop into midfield and make things happen.

Personal opinion.

you could replace the name Ronaldo with McCoist there, and also argue McCoist made a hell of a lot of Rangers fans fall in love with Football.

I don't really think fans on the whole are specifically tied to specific skills when they fall in love with football, it can be an absolute bucket load of things that make that happen, seeing the wee white thing go in the net thing means a hell of a lot to a lot of people.
 

Things that go bump

Well-Known Member
The amount of jealousy n seethe

ED6EE084-0551-4820-AA0C-A7D5D048B955.gif.f0a1055157c683efba914d87023f0f3d.gif
 


Ronaldo went pretty far down my estimations after this article.
 

therealmackay

Well-Known Member
*shakes head in disbelief*

You're arguing with FACT.
You said "most goals in football history"

The goalposts have clearly been moved in terms of what FIFA now deem as official and unofficial matches, to the point where it is now almost impossible to put an absolute figure on the number of goals he actually scored. Most people, though, accept that it was well over 1,000 including friendly matches. However, when you consider that FIFA count goals scored in international friendly matches towards their "official" totals, why should their statistics be taken as gospel above anyone else's, such as the Guinness World Records?
 

TheMish

Well-Known Member
You said "most goals in football history"

The goalposts have clearly been moved in terms of what FIFA now deem as official and unofficial matches, to the point where it is now almost impossible to put an absolute figure on the number of goals he actually scored. Most people, though, accept that it was well over 1,000 including friendly matches. However, when you consider that FIFA count goals scored in international friendly matches towards their "official" totals, why should their statistics be taken as gospel above anyone else's, such as the Guinness World Records?

You are arguing a point Pele doesn't even argue anymore :D :D :D
 

dt17

A mate of mine.....
you could replace the name Ronaldo with McCoist there, and also argue McCoist made a hell of a lot of Rangers fans fall in love with Football.

I don't really think fans on the whole are specifically tied to specific skills when they fall in love with football, it can be an absolute bucket load of things that make that happen, seeing the wee white thing go in the net thing means a hell of a lot to a lot of people.

If you prefer watching someone who just scores goals then fair enough.

I'd imagine most people watch football to be blown away and "wowed" by things...like a player going past 5 defenders before scoring (hence why Maradona's goal in 1986 is still discussed).
 

TheMish

Well-Known Member
If you prefer watching someone who just scores goals then fair enough.

I'd imagine most people watch football to be blown away and "wowed" by things...like a player going past 5 defenders before scoring (hence why Maradona's goal in 1986 is still discussed).

I personally don't just see Ronaldo like that, nor has he just been that across his career. I find that statement a red herring, and even if that was all he did, sure, I enjoy the art of people making the most of their skills, technique and abilities, whatever that might be, football is about an absolute range of skills and abilities, McCoist for instance, really lived in the world of just scoring goals, and I adored him for that.

I reckon a lot of fans fair enjoyed the header of Van Persie's header against Spain, I don't think most fans limit themselves to the things they have to be blown away by, nature of the sport, Rangers fans would have been blown away by the performance of Cuellar v Fiorentina, McGregors save vs Prague, Roofes goal v Liege, football is about an absolute bucket load of things that can "wow" fans.
 

therealmackay

Well-Known Member
You are arguing a point Pele doesn't even argue anymore :D :D :D
Simply because he makes a point of congratulating others on overtaking his "official" total, or what others have recently reimagined as official, does not mean that he would not still argue that he still holds the record for most goals ever scored as a professional footballer. I would trust the person that actually scored those goals and the club/country which they scored them for to know better what that number is than anyone else.
 

dt17

A mate of mine.....
I personally don't just see Ronaldo like that, nor has he just been that across his career. I find that statement a red herring, and even if that was all he did, sure, I enjoy the art of people making the most of their skills, technique and abilities, whatever that might be, McCoist for instance, really lived in the world of just scoring goals, and I adored him for that.

I reckon a lot of fans fair enjoyed the header of Van Persie's header against Spain, I don't think most fans limit themselves to the things they have to be blown away by, nature of the sport, Rangers fans would have been blown away by the performance of Cuellar v Fiorentina, McGregors save vs Prague, Roofes goal v Liege, football is about an absolute bucket load of things that can "wow" fans.

Fair enough, but when comparing Messi and Ronaldo...for me, all that Ronaldo has over him is aerial ability (due to height obviously) and his weaker foot being better.

Messi is equally as good as him when it comes to scoring, better dribbler, passer, playmaker etc.

BTW on the discussion of Pele's goals...I'm fairly sure he used to count regional games/friendlies where a lot of the opponents were part time. I'm sure he scored a bucket load against part time lifeguards for example.
 

TheMish

Well-Known Member
Simply because he makes a point of congratulating others on overtaking his "official" total, or what others have recently reimagined as official, does not mean that he would not still argue that he still holds the record for most goals ever scored as a professional footballer. I would trust the person that actually scored those goals and the club/country which they scored them for to know better what that number is than anyone else.

Sorry, you are now arguing with Pele as well, this is....

tumblr-great.gif
 

TheMish

Well-Known Member
Fair enough, but when comparing Messi and Ronaldo...for me, all that Ronaldo has over him is aerial ability (due to height obviously) and his weaker foot being better.

Pace, he is a lot faster than him, naturally, I mean Messi makes the most of his gifts, but he doesn't have the physique on Ronaldo, if they ran up and down a park in a sprint race Ronaldo would comfortably beat him, pretty obvious sort of thing to say for me, that pace then makes him a greater threat on the counter attack and in transition from turnover, modern day wanky phrase alert.

Ronaldo and his height and ability in the air make him an asset when defending corners as well as attacking them, these things do matter during the course of a game of football, they might not be assets some consider, but they are skills needed during the course of games.

I don't think there is a great difference in their ability to dribble the ball personally, Ronaldo when he first broke through in particular was one of the most innovative players I had seen with a ball at his feet, it gets taken for granted now just how innovative he was at that particular skill more so during his early career, he has adapted. Messi does it different to Ronaldo, not denying that and Messi is incredible in the way he dribbles the ball, clearly, but it has been a hell of an asset for Ronaldo, wouldn't say there is a great deal in it.

The ability of Ronaldo to simply "score goals" transposes it's self in his ability to manipulate a defense, use his strength to outmuscle a player, to actually be in the place to score the goal and sniff that out, these are skills, these are actual things people do on a football park, his leap from a standing start is just absurd for an athlete partaking in any sport. The constant headache it must be playing Ronaldo during a game when he is around the box must be utterly insufferable, he is often on the one mistake the defender makes, that in it's self is a hell of a skill.

These are excellent gifts he has which manipulate games of football to his teams advantage, rather than simply heading it and scoring goals, he quite patently hasn't reached the level he has only being able to do that, that is just disingenuous drivel to me.

There is a hell of a lot of Peacemaker v Bloodspot to the two of them (Messi and Ronaldo), they are both setting out to kill their opponent, they just set out to do it in slightly different ways.

All this being said, they are both fucking great, could answer either or being the best ever depending on my mood at the time personally, would probably say Peacemaker just now.
 

Drumchapel-Bear

Well-Known Member
If you prefer watching someone who just scores goals then fair enough.

I'd imagine most people watch football to be blown away and "wowed" by things...like a player going past 5 defenders before scoring (hence why Maradona's goal in 1986 is still discussed).

I love the way Ronaldo has adapted his game as he has got older though. He was exciting to watch when he was younger, as exciting as anyone really when he was a winger who liked to just take players on at will and could score all types of goals. The fact he has adapted his game as he has become older is just another sign of his genius imo.
 

Drumchapel-Bear

Well-Known Member
Pele counts goals scored in friendlies but a lot of those ''friendlies'' back in the day for Santos were actually games touring Europe playing the best teams in Europe and they were massive events. Just to add a bit of context to Pele's record.
 

dt17

A mate of mine.....
I love the way Ronaldo has adapted his game as he has got older though. He was exciting to watch when he was younger, as exciting as anyone really when he was a winger who liked to just take players on at will and could score all types of goals. The fact he has adapted his game as he has become older is just another sign of his genius imo.

Messi has as well though. He started off as a right winger who would run at defenders, dribble past loads of them before doing something. As he got older and lost a yard of pace, he started to drop deeper and deeper to become a playmaker. The fact he's been able to score so many goals whilst being Barca's main creative player as well is unbelievable.

I don't think there is a great difference in their ability to dribble the ball personally, Ronaldo when he first broke through in particular was one of the most innovative players I had seen with a ball at his feet, it gets taken for granted now just how innovative he was at that particular skill more so during his early career, he has adapted. Messi does it different to Ronaldo, not denying that and Messi is incredible in the way he dribbles the ball, clearly, but it has been a hell of an asset for Ronaldo, wouldn't say there is a great deal in it.

I'm sorry but that's just a million miles from reality. Ronaldo used to do a lot of flashy step overs etc, but he's never been anywhere close to Messi in terms of dribbling.
 

TheMish

Well-Known Member
I love the way Ronaldo has adapted his game as he has got older though. He was exciting to watch when he was younger, as exciting as anyone really when he was a winger who liked to just take players on at will and could score all types of goals. The fact he has adapted his game as he has become older is just another sign of his genius imo.

His debut for Man U against Bolton is still one of the most head wrecking first impressions a player has ever made on me, the other actually being Van Persie against us.

He was game changing in that display against Bolton, game changing as in it slightly changed how some played football, I think it is slightly under rated and appreciated just how different players like Ronaldo and Robben were when they first came on the scene in England, it was like they had come from space.

There had clearly been gifted wingers like them both before, but the skills, stepovers, they were generation defining players the way they played.
 

TheMish

Well-Known Member
I'm sorry but that's just a million miles from reality. Ronaldo used to do a lot of flashy step overs etc, but he's never been anywhere close to Messi in terms of dribbling.

He did, instead he adapted to just become ruthless and efficient in just about every aspect of his game, including his ability to dribble, he stopped with the stepovers, but there is an element of it not being needed, it's not a condition of a talented dribble that a player MUST do a stepover.
 

Drumchapel-Bear

Well-Known Member
His debut for Man U against Bolton is still one of the most head wrecking first impressions a player has ever made on me, the other actually being Van Persie against us.

He was game changing in that display against Bolton, game changing as in it slightly changed how some played football, I think it is slightly under rated and appreciated just how different players like Ronaldo and Robben were when they first came on the scene in England, it was like they had come from space.

There had clearly been gifted wingers like them both before, but the skills, stepovers, they were generation defining players the way they played.

Best debut from a winger I've seen since Wlad Weiss at Easter Road mate.... :cool:
 

Drumchapel-Bear

Well-Known Member
Messi has as well though. He started off as a right winger who would run at defenders, dribble past loads of them before doing something. As he got older and lost a yard of pace, he started to drop deeper and deeper to become a playmaker. The fact he's been able to score so many goals whilst being Barca's main creative player as well is unbelievable.



I'm sorry but that's just a million miles from reality. Ronaldo used to do a lot of flashy step overs etc, but he's never been anywhere close to Messi in terms of dribbling.

I don't think Messi's game has changed dramatically. He has been a False 9 since Pep took over and built the whole Barca team around him he was only really a winger for a short period of his early career. Ronaldo only really started to become an out and out number 9 when he got to Real Madrid.
 

dt17

A mate of mine.....
Saying Ronaldo is as good as Messi at dribbling is honestly as absurd as saying Messi is as good as Ronaldo in the air. They are lightyears apart.
 

TheMish

Well-Known Member
Saying Ronaldo is as good as Messi at dribbling is honestly as absurd as saying Messi is as good as Ronaldo in the air. They are lightyears apart.

Nah, I am just appreciating they are both outstanding at it bud, I can happily tell you the narrative to go with my posts, cheers though.

Messi is underappreciated by some in the air though, for sure.
 

Gazza 8

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
You said "most goals in football history"

The goalposts have clearly been moved in terms of what FIFA now deem as official and unofficial matches, to the point where it is now almost impossible to put an absolute figure on the number of goals he actually scored. Most people, though, accept that it was well over 1,000 including friendly matches. However, when you consider that FIFA count goals scored in international friendly matches towards their "official" totals, why should their statistics be taken as gospel above anyone else's, such as the Guinness World Records?
The goalposts haven't been moved.

Pele talks a pile of pish and counts the goals he scored against his grand kids in the garden.

Ronaldo is the greatest goalscorer of all time.
 

dt17

A mate of mine.....
Another Champions League game winning goal today, brilliant header, just another day at the office.

Cracking header. Just knew when it went to 2-2 he'd pop up with a winner. The good news is it prolongs Ole's stay of execution for another few weeks.

Ronaldo diving and greeting for a penalty in the first half when he tried to shoot and it went out for a throw in was a personal highlight right enough.
 

OnTheWay

Well-Known Member
Thought he was having another poor performance but doesn't matter a %^*& when he pops up with that. Ole will be kicking himself he never started him against Everton.
 

dt17

A mate of mine.....
Thought he was having another poor performance but doesn't matter a %^*& when he pops up with that. Ole will be kicking himself he never started him against Everton.

Having watched him a fair bit over the last few seasons that's often the case now. He doesn't really do much in terms of getting involved with build up play etc. Relies on service into the box and when it comes he'll bury it and grab the headlines. Relentless at times.
 
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