Croatia vs England

dcbear said:
Sounds like Bilic had a word with the Croatian squad about English arrogance:

Luka Modric post match interview - “People were talking ... English journalists, pundits from television,” he told ITV. “They underestimated Croatia tonight and that was a huge mistake. All these words from them we take, we were reading and we were saying: ‘OK, today we will see who will be tired.’ They should be more humble and respect their opponents more.
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The whole chat from people who aren't English is to talk England down by saying 'They're shite, they haven't played anyone, they should've beaten everyone they've played already, they're playing Croatia in the semi and they'll never have a better chance at the final, especially as Croatia will be tired. FFS, jammy bastards are going to win it having played nobody.' Go through the last few England threads, that's what their detractors have been saying.

England say 'Right, we should be beating these teams we've played, we've got Croatia in the semi and they'll probably be tired after 2 consecutive games of extra time and penalties. We'll never have a better chance at this. We could win the World Cup.' and its shouted down as complete arrogance.
 
Rt. Hon. Bearman said:
Sturgeon’s Scotland to a tee.

There are two types of people in life - those who celebrate success and those who celebrate failure.

Scotland is full of the latter and that’s why we are where we are.
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Look i am a nationalist i want my own countrymen running there own country period. As a Scotsman i want a few simple things that's all. I do not want to be dictated to by 13 unelected Eurocrats; i do not want to to have another country dictating how my country is run, the SNP to implode and disappear and wish that certain sections of the Scottish population with English leanings would stop belittling the majority of the Scottish population that does not.
 
muttley said:
I think England just froze in the second half. It is inexplicable how they collapsed from the 46th minute onwards when a goal up. The Croats then smelt blood and went for it.
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Poor tactics. Look at France last night- 1-0 up, closed up shop. So disciplined and smart. A really talented Belgium team couldn’t make any inroads at all.
England can’t get over their dumb approach of ‘charge’ under Southgate. No smarts.
 
bluenosebazza said:
The whole chat from people who aren't English is to talk England down by saying 'They're shite, they haven't played anyone, they should've beaten everyone they've played already, they're playing Croatia in the semi and they'll never have a better chance at the final, especially as Croatia will be tired. FFS, jammy bastards are going to win it having played nobody.' Go through the last few England threads, that's what their detractors have been saying.

England say 'Right, we should be beating these teams we've played, we've got Croatia in the semi and they'll probably be tired after 2 consecutive games of extra time and penalties. We'll never have a better chance at this. We could win the World Cup.' and its shouted down as complete arrogance.
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They were arrogant though, they got carried away with beating dross and had already started discussing how their side would combat France. That’s why Keane was having a go at them.

Even on the news there the reporter finished with “but I suspect the thing that will hurt England is that Croatia aren’t a great side”. It just doesn’t come across well, a lot of their media need reigned in.
 
Jacrispy said:
They were arrogant though, they got carried away with beating dross and had already started discussing how their side would combat France. That’s why Keane was having a go at them.

Even on the news there the reporter finished with “but I suspect the thing that will hurt England is that Croatia aren’t a great side”. It just doesn’t come across well, a lot of their media need reigned in.
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The talk has already begun about Euro 2020 and how England are the side to beat especially with the final being at Wembley. It is just never ending and for those of us who would normally be ambivalent towards the England side specifically, makes us much more likely to wish them ill fortune. They are setting themselves up for another massive failure in two years' time.

Especially with two vastly superior European sides being in the World Cup Final.
 
ah fecking gutted for England, reminds me once again of the bad memories and what it felt like when i used to go watch Scotland, galant losers.
 
Graemelins said:
Poor tactics. Look at France last night- 1-0 up, closed up shop. So disciplined and smart. A really talented Belgium team couldn’t make any inroads at all.
England can’t get over their dumb approach of ‘charge’ under Southgate. No smarts.
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To go out of the tourney doing next to nothing in an entire second half when already 1-0 up will be a sore one to take. If England had went hell for leather to get that second goal, but got sucker punched might be understandable, but they did almost zilch that second half. It seems just a wasted opportunity to reach a World Cup Final, tbh.
 
Forza_Napoli said:
Taking sterling off was a mistake despite him being a bit rash at times Croatia were petrified of his pace Ali should of been taken off instead. Again he goes missing in a big game something i think happens because he's came up through the lower league's. Kane was poor again dropping too deep instead of holding play up so there was focul point for the team at times and two shots on target to Croatias seven tells is story. Trippier was excellent i though but against top teams you'll struggle if your playing walker McGuire and stones as back three there will always be a mistake in them
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Their brain-dead media and once every 4 years no nothing fans wanted Sterling off and Forrest Gump Gashford on, The waistcoat obliged and their chances went with it,
 
KensingtonBlue said:
At the end of the day England told us all it was coming home and it didn’t come home.

If they showed an ounce of humility and respect towards the rest of the teams perhaps we’d have some sympathy.

As it was, they lost to a better team, and will probably not get a better chance to reach a World Cup final. What a shame.
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I'm not in France or Croatia at the moment but I'm guessing they're media, sports news channels are equally celebrating their team getting to the final or even the thought of it before they won their games.

This whole English media nonsense that Scottish people come out with is embarrassing. The exact same would be happening in this country if it ever happened to Scotland.
 
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sifter said:
I'm not in France or Croatia at the moment but I'm guessing they're media, sports news channels are equally celebrating their team getting to the final or even the thought of it before they won their games.

This whole English media nonsense that Scottish people come out with is embarrassing. The exact same would be happening in this country if I told ever happened to Scotland.
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Serious question. Actual serious question as I wasn't in the country two years ago.

Was there the same reaction and coverage across the entire BBC, ITV, Sky and other networks when Wales reached a major tournament semi-final two years ago?
 
Roger Smith Loyal said:
I thought Kane was onside for that chance? I haven't seen any replays.

If he was onside then surely VAR would have corrected the decision and if he wasn't onside it would have been a correct call?
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I think he was. I think the flag went up when the ball rebounded out over the line but bounced back onto the pitch
 
Jacrispy said:
They were arrogant though, they got carried away with beating dross and had already started discussing how their side would combat France. That’s why Keane was having a go at them.

Even on the news there the reporter finished with “but I suspect the thing that will hurt England is that Croatia aren’t a great side”. It just doesn’t come across well, a lot of their media need reigned in.
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That second last line is the same thing that's been said 2 dozen times on here since the final whistle.

They're England fans talking about England, I'll forgive them talking themselves up. Mainly because I can switch them off. I've said this in other threads but the Dutch pundits will have been discussing how well they would've done at this tournament, never mind the fact they couldn't get close to qualifying. German pundits would've been discussing how far they could go at the WC after their 95th minute winner against Sweden, ignoring the fact they'd been dog shite for the first game and a half and still had a group game to go. Brazil won't have given Belgium a hope in hell.

People make out that's it's a trait to England fans and pundits. It really isn't.
 
bluenosebazza said:
The whole chat from people who aren't English is to talk England down by saying 'They're shite, they haven't played anyone, they should've beaten everyone they've played already, they're playing Croatia in the semi and they'll never have a better chance at the final, especially as Croatia will be tired. FFS, jammy bastards are going to win it having played nobody.' Go through the last few England threads, that's what their detractors have been saying.

England say 'Right, we should be beating these teams we've played, we've got Croatia in the semi and they'll probably be tired after 2 consecutive games of extra time and penalties. We'll never have a better chance at this. We could win the World Cup.' and its shouted down as complete arrogance.
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Presumably England should have been petrified and talking up a side that got through against Russia and Denmark on penalties......

As clearly the teams you’ve played are the indicator of your quality....
 
sifter said:
I'm not in France or Croatia at the moment but I'm guessing they're media, sports news channels are equally celebrating their team getting to the final or even the thought of it before they won their games.

This whole English media nonsense that Scottish people come out with is embarrassing. The exact same would be happening in this country if I told ever happened to Scotland.
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Their attitude is all wrong. They’ve won it before they’ve won it.
Keep your head down. Play hard. Play smart. Then celebrate.
 
Peter_OHanrahahanrahan said:
The talk has already begun about Euro 2020 and how England are the side to beat especially with the final being at Wembley. It is just never ending and for those of us who would normally be ambivalent towards the England side specifically, makes us much more likely to wish them ill fortune. They are setting themselves up for another massive failure in two years' time.

Especially with two vastly superior European sides being in the World Cup Final.
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Do yourself a favour, turn it off. That's what I do and it makes a difference.
 
eyalluvitt said:
Their brain-dead media and once every 4 years no nothing fans wanted Sterling off and Forrest Gump Gashford on, The waistcoat obliged and their chances went with it,
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Exactly sterling was superb the first 50 minutes until England started sitting deep lovren was a sending off waiting to happen
 
BobbyShearer said:
Presumably England should have been petrified and talking up a side that got through against Russia and Denmark on penalties......

As clearly the teams you’ve played are the indicator of your quality....
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It's an indication they're better at penalties than Russia and Denmark. :D Croatia are probably a better team than England but were beatable. Thats the way England, and everyone else, would've looked at the semi final.
 
Peter_OHanrahahanrahan said:
Serious question. Actual serious question as I wasn't in the country two years ago.

Was there the same reaction and coverage across the entire BBC, ITV, Sky and other networks when Wales reached a major tournament semi-final two years ago?
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I honestly can't remember. I imagine the BBC or itv would have been very pro wales in the build up to their games, but as I don't obsess over how the English media cover the England national team it's not something I would remember or care about. People don't want England to win the World Cup because of the media? Absolutely mental view in my opinion. These same people will be glued to the television watching the same presenters covering match of the day or super Sunday in 4 weeks time.
 
tottie beck said:
Whatever happened to "The Quintessential British Club"?

I guess the 'Braveheart' myth holds greater sway...
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Let me see as a true Scotsman what would i would i be more drawn to? Being Quintessential British (English Gentry and Scotland's biggest land owners) or to the Braveheart myth about a man that fought for his country to be be run and owned by his fellow countrymen? Tough one that!
 
sifter said:
I honestly can't remember. I imagine the BBC or itv would have been very pro wales in the build up to their games, but as I don't obsess over how the English media cover the England national team it's not something I would remember or care about. People don't want England to win the World Cup because of the media? Absolutely mental view in my opinion. These same people will be glued to the television watching the same presenters covering match of the day or super Sunday in 4 weeks time.
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If England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, even the Republic, reached a World Cup semi-final the coverage would be the same. Anyone saying different is lying to themself.
 
muttley said:
If England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, even the Republic, reached a World Cup semi-final the coverage would be the same. Anyone saying different is lying to themself.
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Scottish pundits never shut up about 1978 and we never made it out the group.

FFS the BBC went mental for the African teams in 2010. They sent someone out to invent a new celebration for the South Africans and made a documentary about it and the coverage for Ghana in the knockout phase was boak inducing.
 
Foolback said:
Look i am a nationalist i want my own countrymen running there own country period. As a Scotsman i want a few simple things that's all. I do not want to be dictated to by 13 unelected Eurocrats; i do not want to to have another country dictating how my country is run, the SNP to implode and disappear and wish that certain sections of the Scottish population with English leanings would stop belittling the majority of the Scottish population that does not.
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Ah, so it's not just football for you; it's actually political. Fair enough.
 
sifter said:
I honestly can't remember. I imagine the BBC or itv would have been very pro wales in the build up to their games, but as I don't obsess over how the English media cover the England national team it's not something I would remember or care about. People don't want England to win the World Cup because of the media? Absolutely mental view in my opinion. These same people will be glued to the television watching the same presenters covering match of the day or super Sunday in 4 weeks time.
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I'd hazard a guess that in 2016 there wasn't nationwide wall-to-wall coverage from the streets of Wales and DAYS of build up to their semi final. More than willing to be proved wrong though.

In a months' time the presenters won't have to be as blindly patriotic and jingoistic as we have seen so far this summer. They will be covering club football and not broadcasting to three other countries who, for the most part, won't be supporting the same team that they are currently propagandising at every opportunity.
 
Peter_OHanrahahanrahan said:
I'd hazard a guess that in 2016 there wasn't wall-to-wall coverage on the streets of Wales and DAYS of build up to their semi final. More than willing to be proved wrong though.

In a months' time the presenters won't have to be as blindly patriotic and jingoistic as we have seen so far this summer. They will be covering club football and not broadcasting to three other countries who, for the most part, won't be supporting the same team that they are currently propagandising at every opportunity.
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Well how much Welsh programming did you watch at the time?
 
BrooklynBlue said:
Come on, not the population excuse again. The money is in the Scottish game or at least it's certainly comparable to the likes of Iceland, Denmark, Sweden, Croatia, Serbia etc. Jeez, even Rep of Ireland and Northern Ireland made the WC play-offs (and actually qualified for the Euros)...
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Agreed there are many reasons why we keep failing.
 
bluenosebazza said:
That second last line is the same thing that's been said 2 dozen times on here since the final whistle.

They're England fans talking about England, I'll forgive them talking themselves up. Mainly because I can switch them off. I've said this in other threads but the Dutch pundits will have been discussing how well they would've done at this tournament, never mind the fact they couldn't get close to qualifying. German pundits would've been discussing how far they could go at the WC after their 95th minute winner against Sweden, ignoring the fact they'd been dog shite for the first game and a half and still had a group game to go. Brazil won't have given Belgium a hope in hell.

People make out that's it's a trait to England fans and pundits. It really isn't.
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Yeah but you go in live television and say it like that you sound disrespectful and you sound like a bad loser, I imagine Bilic will be pissing himself laughing away from the cameras tonight.

And people just make assumptions of what foreign media are like, there’s a reason they giggle when England go out, it’s bcause they are a special case when it comes to overconfidence and general delusions of grandeur. It’s just a fact, you’ll struggle to find another country who have had so little success internationally who go about their Business the way their media do. And by the way Croatia really aren’t a great side, sadly neither or England, and that was the mistake these guys made after scraping past a mediocre Colombia side missing their best player, and a rudderless Swedish side who’s top marksman plys his trade in the United Arab Emirates and who hadn’t scored in 11 games.

The relentless cheerleading and defence of England on here is 90% political anyway. “The yessers will hate them winning so we’ll get on England’s side” etc etc. I actually like Southgate and knowing some of the Nazi party members will be wanking themselves into oblivion tonight is quite sad, but I won’t let these pricks dictate who I back in sport.
 
Peter_OHanrahahanrahan said:
Serious question. Actual serious question as I wasn't in the country two years ago.

Was there the same reaction and coverage across the entire BBC, ITV, Sky and other networks when Wales reached a major tournament semi-final two years ago?
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No they didn’t, of course they didn’t. They just don’t have that arrogant streak, my cousins are Welsh and even with them doing so well and having one of the worlds top players on their side you’d never hear em get carried away.
 
Foolback said:
Let me see as a true Scotsman what would i would i be more drawn to? Being Quintessential British (English Gentry and Scotland's biggest land owners) or to the Braveheart myth about a man that fought for his country to be be run and owned by his fellow countrymen? Tough one that!
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Not really.

You are an SNP throbber.

It’s 1939 and you are backing hitler because you hate the English.

Lol
 
Foolback said:
Look i am a nationalist i want my own countrymen running there own country period. As a Scotsman i want a few simple things that's all. I do not want to be dictated to by 13 unelected Eurocrats; i do not want to to have another country dictating how my country is run, the SNP to implode and disappear and wish that certain sections of the Scottish population with English leanings would stop belittling the majority of the Scottish population that does not.
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Is that you Sean?
 
Jacrispy said:
Yeah but you go in live television and say it like that you sound disrespectful and you sound like a bad loser, I imagine Bilic will be pissing himself laughing away from the cameras tonight.

And people just make assumptions of what foreign media are like, there’s a reason they giggle when England go out, it’s bcause they are a special case when it comes to overconfidence and general delusions of grandeur. It’s just a fact, you’ll struggle to find another country who have had so little success internationally who go about their Business the way their media do. And by the way Croatia really aren’t a great side, sadly neither or England, and that was the mistake these guys made after scraping past a mediocre Colombia side missing their best player, and a rudderless Swedish side who’s top marksman plys his trade in the United Arab Emirates and who hadn’t scored in 11 games.

The relentless cheerleading and defence of England on here is 90% political anyway. “The yessers will hate them winning so we’ll get on England’s side” etc etc. I actually like Southgate and knowing some of the Nazi party members will be wanking themselves into oblivion tonight is quite sad, but I won’t let these pricks dictate who I back in sport.
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I've been in the Netherlands, who have had less success than England, in the build up to more than 1 WC and I can tell you it isn't a uniquely English thing to get carried away without reason.

England had a good chance to make the final, there's no reason why they shouldn't have been saying that.

And to repeat, I don't rate Southgate, think they have a pretty average squad and really don't like the way England play football under Southgate. Sounds a bit daft when I say it now because they made the semi final, and I'm defending the English right to be excited about that, but the English media excuse just comes across as laboured to people who don't care either way about England. Just turn the telly off and don't listen to them. I despise cockends like Owen, Savage, Lawrenson, Sutton, Hartson, Keown, Murphy, Dixon, Wright, Shearer, Lineker, McManaman (basically 99% of the current pundits were stuck with) so I tend not to listen to them.

I hear 'I want England to lose because of the English media' a hundred times more than I hear the English media saying anything.
 
Jacrispy said:
Can you not separate football and politics?

I like England as a country, I hate the SNP, I voted No, I also didn’t want England’s football team to win.
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He was replying to someone who was specifically talking about political beliefs, who in turn was replying to someone else who had brought it up.

I didn't want England to win either, I'm very apathetic towards their football team despite the fact it winds Tims up when they win.
 
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Taking aside the fact that this England team did well to reach the semis, there will be a big part of them that looks back on this as a massive missed opportunity. They will never get a run like that to a world cup final again.
 
I did not care if England won the world cup or not. but they have just been beaten in the world cup semi final. something Scotland have never been anywhere near in any scots lifetime. but its all right Scotland have never been near because England got beat. I agree the pundits and media had England lifting the world cup before it even stared. but was it not the same in Scotland in 1978 with Ally MacLeod we won it before it stared. there is nothing wrong with people wanting a rival in football to get beat. but its been a long time since Scotland were any big teams rival. because not beaning in a major tournament since 1998 how can the top teams see you as a rival. maybe more fans should ask the SFA why at is instead of worrying how England do. but hey everything in the garden is rosy just because England got beat and will not win the world cup.
 
Although it's difficult to knock a team who got to the semi's I'm going to try...

They beat Tunisia (only just), then a terrible Panama. Lost to Belgium, scraped past Colombia on pens (who were without their best player). They were good against Sweden to be fair, but they are a very average team. Then lost to the half decent team they came up against. There's really not a whole lot there to get massively excited about
 
White Cafu said:
Although it's difficult to knock a team who got to the semi's I'm going to try...

They beat Tunisia (only just), then a terrible Panama. Lost to Belgium, scraped past Colombia on pens (who were without their best player). They were good against Sweden to be fair, but they are a very average team. Then lost to the half decent team they came up against. There's really not a whole lot there to get massively excited about
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There is when you look at the England team which looks their poorest of the last 20 years and their manager who only got the job because he was a boring safe hand after Del Boy Allardyce gave them the arsehole.
 
They need Dele Alli to kick on. 2016-17 season he looked set to be top class, but last season wasnt great and he had a pretty poor world cup. Without him, they're short of real class in midfield.
 
dcbear said:
They need Dele Alli to kick on. 2016-17 season he looked set to be top class, but last season wasnt great and he had a pretty poor world cup. Without him, they're short of real class in midfield.
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He was poor. For all the talk of Sterlings missed chances and poor crossing, he at least worried defenders. Alli was taking the ball, moving it on 2 yards then giving it to someone else who was marked.
 
Peter_OHanrahahanrahan said:
This, one million percent.

Separating football rivalry at international level - boo, hiss.
Separating football rivalry at club level - perfectly acceptable. (which is how it should be)
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I get that argument but at the same time it's not a like for like rivalry from the point of view of Rangers fans (probably is from the point of view of Timmy and Scottish nationalists). As Rangers fans at club level we have disgusting local rivals that hate the country they live in, support terrorists, and were desperate to see Rangers go out of existence. England fans on the other hand, have a lot more in common with Rangers fans.

Depends also I suppose on how patriotic you are. I'm not particularly patriotic for Scotland or Britain as I don't see what the big deal is about what country you happened to be born in. Yet would certainly rather stick with the status quo of being in the union. And I can't stand the cheap and nasty caricature of the tartan army and despise Scottish nationalism (or indeed any nationalism).

So all in I don't get passionate towards Scotland the football team even though I want to see them win. Also don't mind England winning, would definitely have preferred them over France in a final.

But I get that a lot of Rangers supporting Scots still have the old rivalry with England so of course they are going to want England to lose and there will be lots of banter and wind ups after they do.

Where I do think it becomes completely sad and pathetic is when you obsess over England much more so than you support Scotland. That is exactly like the timmys and other assorted Rangers-haters in Scotland who care more about Rangers losing than their own team's winning. However you are entitled to also go for the obsession route towards England in a free country, just as I am entitled to think you're a grade A walloper if you do.
 
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