Dalian Atkinson Taser death:

Mickethius

Well-Known Member
Were you there? No you were not.

CPS don't put a murder charge on anything without decent enough evidence to back it up. Let's see what the courts decide.


They will if there is any doubt just to show they are being even handed, no way on gods earth will they achieve a conviction for murder.
 

coplandrearl36

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
From the CPS -

murder is an intention to kill or cause grievous bodily harm (GBH). Foresight is no more than evidence from which the jury may draw the inference of intent, c.f. R v Woollin [1999] 1 Cr App R 8 (HOL). The necessary intention exists if the defendant feels sure that death, or serious bodily harm, is a virtual certainty as a result of the defendant's actions and that the defendant appreciated that this was the case - R v Matthews (Darren John) [2003] EWCA Crim 192.

Not in Scotland
 

Calvinist

Well-Known Member
Sorry that’s incorrect, it may be reduced to Culp Hom but initial charge by Police would be Murder.

youre wrong .

police regularly liase with crown office and pf and can competently charge with culp home . I’ve seen it first hand on numerous occasions
 

MightyGersLand!

Well-Known Member
that’s utter nonsense .

the only guidance is to try to avoid sensitive areas like the face and genitas but they’re not off limits
Utter nonsense? Quantify that please? How exactly is it Utter nonsense?
I may or may not be incorrect, but your hyperbole is the only nonsense on that last post.

I'd have thought ramming 50,000 volts around the area of someones heart would be pretty stupid.
Either way, the info the PF has, was obviously enough to charge the guys.


Researchers looked at eight cases involving men and teen boys who lost consciousness after getting shocked by the TASER X26, a weapon widely used by law enforcement and the military.

In each case, the stun gun was applied to the chest, and the individuals experienced cardiac arrest after their hearts began to beat either too fast or abnormally.
 
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coplandrearl36

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
youre wrong .

police regularly liase with crown office and pf and can competently charge with culp home . I’ve seen it first hand on numerous occasions
Worked in Glasgow for over 10 yrs. It was always a charge of Murder never ever did we charge Culp Hom.
 
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Rangerstid72

Well-Known Member
They aren't supposed to be deployed in the upper torso. But of course, if you know everything else you typed, you know what I meant and decided to act the online Billy Big baws. We'll done you.
Well your wrong again. The intent is one probe hits a major muscle group as does the other probe. Ideally one chest and one thigh for example. I wasnt acting BBB. But wgat you said was wrong.
 

Rangerstid72

Well-Known Member
Worked in Glasgow for over 10 yrs. It was always a charge of Murder never ever did we charge Culp Hom.
Hi mate, wires crossed. My post was meant to read manslaughter and culp. Homocice are virtually identical. I wasnt getting into what the cop should or would be charged with. As yet circumstances arent explained. It does sound unusual as i believe in England the CPS liaise and advise the charge.
 

Mexi

Well-Known Member
Well your wrong again. The intent is one probe hits a major muscle group as does the other probe. Ideally one chest and one thigh for example. I wasnt acting BBB. But wgat you said was wrong.
I can't imagine it would be easy to aim a taser at the chest but avoidng the heart, it's heard enough with a gun. Especially with a moving target
 

Rangerstid72

Well-Known Member
I can't imagine it would be easy to aim a taser at the chest but avoidng the heart, it's heard enough with a gun. Especially with a moving target
Its range isn't huge and there is a laser sighting system. Usually, when the red dot is seen on the chest compliance occurs. But, the main body mass is the target. Ie, the chest. For the amont its been deployed fatalities are very low. No cop in their right mind wants to use it. Investigation up ymthe yahoo. It is classed as a firearm.
 

Dougoi7

Well-Known Member
Not really. Tasers are meant to disable not kill like a gun. The reason tasers are there are so police can act first and ask questions later. Not sure they have time to ask suspect to fill in a health questionnaire.

you have disagreed with me and agreed with me all in the same sentence
 

bigfellathanks

Active Member
I can't imagine it would be easy to aim a taser at the chest but avoidng the heart, it's heard enough with a gun. Especially with a moving target
The probes are relatively small it would pierce the skin but wouldn't be able to hit the heart it would just be the general chest area even if in front of the heart. They are very unlikely to kill people unless they have underlying health conditions ie these cases or fall and suffer a knock to the head, even then in both cases death is unlikely.
 

Blue Goose

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure that it's still in existence however there is a unit at the Crown Office whose sole remit is to look at criminal complaints against the Police. They had to show that they were fit for purpose and used to cite cops with things such as assaults, traffic offences etc. The vast majority of which was a not guilty. A stats thing if you like. The issue was that the pressure these cops were under, for utter shite, was and can be immense. Cops behind bars for minor offences, when Joe Public gets a slap on the wrist, isn't a good thing for them.
You only need look at the cop a fortnight ago in Stirling who killed himself due to a complaint.

This thing smacks of a show piece type trial. Appeasement.

If I was an armed cop with a Taser, I would be handing it in after this announcement.
 

MightyGersLand!

Well-Known Member
Well your wrong again. The intent is one probe hits a major muscle group as does the other probe. Ideally one chest and one thigh for example. I wasnt acting BBB. But wgat you said was wrong.
I'll stick to expert opinion thanks. Rather than the thoughts of a crank on FF.
Hopefully piggy goes down for a few years.
Typical police know it all and can do what I like attitude has seen this thug in a uniform get a bit of karma, hell mend him.
 

MightyGersLand!

Well-Known Member
Seeing as you were there and knew the thought process of the officer have you given a statement?
I'm still waiting my turn behind a queue of jumped up bacon sandwiches.
You know. The ones telling, no demanding people are wrong. Talking bollocks. Typing nonsense. And so forth...
It's ironic. When that kind of know it all. Listen to no one attitude sees you up on a murder charge.

I'll stick to being glad this killer is off the street, for the time being at least. Rather than playing judge, jury, executioner, lawyer and fiscal in a uniform.
 

MightyGersLand!

Well-Known Member
I see what you did there. Intellectual debate is clearly not your forte.
You weren't looking for debate.
I just brought it down to your level.
Anyone who wants to give their opinion as fact, bark at people, and without debate or fact just furiously bash away that everyone else os wrong, talking shite, nonsense, doesn't really deserve seneible debate.
Probably gave you too much of my time already.

But I happen to resent publicly paid people who's wage is a fraction of my tax bill insinuating they are always right and I'm thick.
And while treating me like shit on their shoe, somehow feel I'm due them respect.
 

Subway Bear

Well-Known Member
You weren't looking for debate.
I just brought it down to your level.
Anyone who wants to give their opinion as fact, bark at people, and without debate or fact just furiously bash away that everyone else os wrong, talking shite, nonsense, doesn't really deserve seneible debate.
Probably gave you too much of my time already.

But I happen to resent publicly paid people who's wage is a fraction of my tax bill insinuating they are always right and I'm thick.
And while treating me like shit on their shoe, somehow feel I'm due them respect.

Na, your trying to hard now
 

Blue Goose

Well-Known Member
You weren't looking for debate.
I just brought it down to your level.
Anyone who wants to give their opinion as fact, bark at people, and without debate or fact just furiously bash away that everyone else os wrong, talking shite, nonsense, doesn't really deserve seneible debate.
Probably gave you too much of my time already.

But I happen to resent publicly paid people who's wage is a fraction of my tax bill insinuating they are always right and I'm thick.
And while treating me like shit on their shoe, somehow feel I'm due them respect.

What happened to you that makes you hate the Police that much? A fraction of your tax bill you say? So either your new money , an overpaid individual or business owner. Notwithstanding this you clearly have a distain of authority. You simply must tell us. You're anger requires release.

You talk about barking at people yet you talk about "bacon sandwiches". What age are you? 12? Surely you can concede that everyone,except yourself, has provided a reasonable post on this thread?
 

MightyGersLand!

Well-Known Member
What happened to you that makes you hate the Police that much? A fraction of your tax bill you say? So either your new money , an overpaid individual or business owner. Notwithstanding this you clearly have a distain of authority. You simply must tell us. You're anger requires release.

You talk about barking at people yet you talk about "bacon sandwiches". What age are you? 12? Surely you can concede that everyone,except yourself, has provided a reasonable post on this thread?
I read you like a book from a few lines and now your covering every possible base to try have a dig.
If you think every post bar mine are reasonable your in your own wee world.
Policemen don't constitute authority.
I have no problem with real authority.

You seem to believe everyone, level with or above rock steady constitutes authority. Maybe start there and tell us where that comes from. I might open up then if I see you do so first.
And take your time. To intelligently think out another one of your killer responses.
 

Blue Goose

Well-Known Member
I read you like a book from a few lines and now your covering every possible base to try have a d3ig.
If you think every post bar mine are reasonable your in your own wee world.
Policemen don't constitute authority.
I have no problem with real authority.

You seem to believe everyone, level with or above rock steady constitutes authority. Maybe start there and tell us where that comes from. I might open up then if I see you do so first.
And take your time. To intelligently think out another one of your killer responses.

But the fact is that the Police are seen by nearly everyone as a sign of authority, rightly or wrongly. Worldwide. Of course there are instances when things go wrong and a death of anyone is a tragedy however you and I are not privvy to the facts.

So can you elaborate on what is real authority? I'm genuinely intrigued.
 

Thommo2006

Well-Known Member
I'm still waiting my turn behind a queue of jumped up bacon sandwiches.
You know. The ones telling, no demanding people are wrong. Talking bollocks. Typing nonsense. And so forth...
It's ironic. When that kind of know it all. Listen to no one attitude sees you up on a murder charge.

I'll stick to being glad this killer is off the street, for the time being at least. Rather than playing judge, jury, executioner, lawyer and fiscal in a uniform.

What's up you get lifted for something but it's not your fault all the cops are bent and they all are after you?
 

Commentator

Well-Known Member
You weren't looking for debate.
I just brought it down to your level.
Anyone who wants to give their opinion as fact, bark at people, and without debate or fact just furiously bash away that everyone else os wrong, talking shite, nonsense, doesn't really deserve seneible debate.
Probably gave you too much of my time already.

But I happen to resent publicly paid people who's wage is a fraction of my tax bill insinuating they are always right and I'm thick.
And while treating me like shit on their shoe, somehow feel I'm due them respect.
WTF is wrong with you?
 

Spin City

Well-Known Member
You weren't looking for debate.
I just brought it down to your level.
Anyone who wants to give their opinion as fact, bark at people, and without debate or fact just furiously bash away that everyone else os wrong, talking shite, nonsense, doesn't really deserve seneible debate.
Probably gave you too much of my time already.

But I happen to resent publicly paid people who's wage is a fraction of my tax bill insinuating they are always right and I'm thick.
And while treating me like shit on their shoe, somehow feel I'm due them respect.
A fraction of your tax bill..?

You wouldn't by chance be wealthy enough to possess a car big and expensive enough to think you own the road and then get upset when Cops pull you up for speeding, would you..?
 

Dougoi7

Well-Known Member
Much like people who hate cops.

Don't be a criminal or a chav and you'll be perfectly fine..

if it makes me a wanker because i dont like police,then thats fine by me,
what are you,by the way,if you do like police?

try telling that to one of the many framed or fitted up by our boys in blue
 

Spin City

Well-Known Member
if it makes me a wanker because i dont like police,then thats fine by me,
what are you,by the way,if you do like police?

try telling that to one of the many framed or fitted up by our boys in blue
I neither like nor dislike the Police, but they have a hard and very often thankless job and 99.9% of them are decent and conscientious. Like every profession they have their share of cunts and arseholes, but then again you find cunts and arseholes in every walk of life and they're far more numerous on the streets than they are in the Police Force.

Not everyone who is Guilty is Guilty but then again not everyone who claims they are innocent is innocent either.
 

Rangerstid72

Well-Known Member
I'll stick to expert opinion thanks. Rather than the thoughts of a crank on FF.
Hopefully piggy goes down for a few years.
Typical police know it all and can do what I like attitude has seen this thug in a uniform get a bit of karma, hell mend him.
And I'm a crank! You got it wrong and gone off the reservation.
Has it occurred to you that perhaps I do know what I'm talking about, and what I posted is fact and not an opinion? You have the officer tried and convicted before you know the facts. Piggy? Think you need to grow up.
 

MightyGersLand!

Well-Known Member
And I'm a crank! You got it wrong and gone off the reservation.
Has it occurred to you that perhaps I do know what I'm talking about, and what I posted is fact and not an opinion? You have the officer tried and convicted before you know the facts. Piggy? Think you need to grow up.
He killed someone, that's a fact.
I've not once stated it was definitely murder, so no I don't have him anything.
I do hope he's punished for his actions.

I've quoted a link to a study on taser deaths, maybe you could share your credentials? What makes you an authority on their use, benefits and risks?
No one sharing facts and telling people they are categorically wrong has yet told us which area of taser study, medicine or science they actually work in which I find odd.
 

Blue Goose

Well-Known Member
The sad thing here is that
He killed someone, that's a fact.
I've not once stated it was definitely murder, so no I don't have him anything.
I do hope he's punished for his actions.

I've quoted a link to a study on taser deaths, maybe you could share your credentials? What makes you an authority on their use, benefits and risks?
No one sharing facts and telling people they are categorically wrong has yet told us which area of taser study, medicine or science they actually work in which I find odd.

Yet again you are wrong. It's not Fact. A person has died as a result of his possible actions. Albeit he's been charged it's for a JURY to determine his guilt. Not you nor I. You do know how the criminal justice system works don't you? You're having a mare on this thread.
 

Rangerstid72

Well-Known Member
He killed someone, that's a fact.
I've not once stated it was definitely murder, so no I don't have him anything.
I do hope he's punished for his actions.

I've quoted a link to a study on taser deaths, maybe you could share your credentials? What makes you an authority on their use, benefits and risks?
No one sharing facts and telling people they are categorically wrong has yet told us which area of taser study, medicine or science they actually work in which I find odd.
After reading the replies you have received I almost feel sorry for you. But then calling fellow Rangers fans you believe are police officers childish names I think you are pathetic. You've had replies and opinions from posters who have a working knowledge of Tasers, yet you still contradict and make misinformed statenents, ie, taser to the heart. No-one is disputing that someone died, and that is terrible. We dont even know if taser caused it or even contributed. That is why i wont condemn the officers. I won't be replying to any more of your posts as they are getting a bit paranoid.
 

MightyGersLand!

Well-Known Member
The sad thing here is that


Yet again you are wrong. It's not Fact. A person has died as a result of his possible actions. Albeit he's been charged it's for a JURY to determine his guilt. Not you nor I. You do know how the criminal justice system works don't you? You're having a mare on this thread.
Sorry but your confused on this.
He killed the guy. A jury will decide of it was deliberate or not and to what extent. Yet your questioning me?
 

MightyGersLand!

Well-Known Member
After reading the replies you have received I almost feel sorry for you. But then calling fellow Rangers fans you believe are police officers childish names I think you are pathetic. You've had replies and opinions from posters who have a working knowledge of Tasers, yet you still contradict and make misinformed statenents, ie, taser to the heart. No-one is disputing that someone died, and that is terrible. We dont even know if taser caused it or even contributed. That is why i wont condemn the officers. I won't be replying to any more of your posts as they are getting a bit paranoid.
So I've to believe any of the anonymous names on a forum who've taken the huff when questioned? Over my own experience, respected medical and scientific opinion, when not one of you will quantify why you are of authority to tell people they are "cstegorically wrong", "talking nonsense", "bullshit", and then have the audacity to shout for sensible debate. Right you are.
 

Rangerstid72

Well-Known Member
So I've to believe any of the anonymous names on a forum who've taken the huff when questioned? Over my own experience, respected medical and scientific opinion, when not one of you will quantify why you are of authority to tell people they are "cstegorically wrong", "talking nonsense", "bullshit", and then have the audacity to shout for sensible debate. Right you are.
"Taser to the heart, everyone knows you dont do that" sic: That was the post that qualified you as talkibg nonsense, well the first one.
So I've to believe any of the anonymous names on a forum who've taken the huff when questioned? Over my own experience, respected medical and scientific opinion, when not one of you will quantify why you are of authority to tell people they are "cstegorically wrong", "talking nonsense", "bullshit", and then have the audacity to shout for sensible debate. Right you are.
No one has taken the huff. You called people childish names. That excludes you from a sensible discussion. You have been wrong accept it and move on.
 

MightyGersLand!

Well-Known Member
"Taser to the heart, everyone knows you dont do that" sic: That was the post that qualified you as talkibg nonsense, well the first one.

No one has taken the huff. You called people childish names. That excludes you from a sensible discussion. You have been wrong accept it and move on.

.
Researchers looked at eight cases involving men and teen boys who lost consciousness after getting shocked by the TASER X26, a weapon widely used by law enforcement and the military.

In each case, the stun gun was applied to the chest, and the individuals experienced cardiac arrest after their hearts began to beat either too fast or abnormally.

Seven of the eight males died, while one survived with impaired memory.
You've still not said why you know better?
What qualifies you as knowing more than me?
This'll be more than a handful of times I've asked several poster and none will say.
Tells its own story.
 

Rangerstid72

Well-Known Member


You've still not said why you know better?
What qualifies you as knowing more than me?
This'll be more than a handful of times I've asked several poster and none will say.
Tells its own story.
That was interesting. The articles compiler, Linda Thrasybule, a journalist covering wellness and celebrity health, next article "What your poop says about you" lets me know how good her qualifications regarding the medical implications regarding Taser deployment. I've heard enough.
PS They show a stun gun. Not a taser.
 

Spin City

Well-Known Member


You've still not said why you know better?
What qualifies you as knowing more than me?
This'll be more than a handful of times I've asked several poster and none will say.
Tells its own story.
Why haven't you answered my questions..?

And these as well:

That study concerns 8 people but out of how many Taser deployments..?

There are other Police techniques that are used hundreds of times a day but which have caused death on rare occasions, why single out Taser deployment.

Also, that article is very badly written. I don't know if it misquoted the research but 50000 volts is never discharged into a person's body. I think the most is 1200 volts.
 
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