Dave King | Douglas Park

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You ask the directors and Robertson why they said different then?

So they deliberately lied to us when they said we were covered to the end of the season and we would then break even that was before a UEFA cup final and selling Patterson plus all Gerrards compo.
When did they say that?
 
Robertson did at the AGM and we’ve been told on numerous occasions sales will be used to strengthen the team .
At last someone answers the question of when it was said. In other words before the deal to get rid of Sports Direct? Circumstances change you know. Also paying instalments on players we have already signed would also count as investing in the squad. Accuse him of deliberately lying is a serious accusation
 
He didn’t - he said we should be breaking even by the end of the next financial year. But let’s not allow the facts prevent some of our fans from calling him a liar
That's why I wanted him to clarify exactly what he was claiming was said, because it was certainly not my recollection.

I am not a fan of much of what the current board have done and think there are some real issues but there is no need at all for some of the lies that get spread.
 
That's why I wanted him to clarify exactly what he was claiming was said, because it was certainly not my recollection.

I am not a fan of much of what the current board have done and think there are some real issues but there is no need at all for some of the lies that get spread.
The board have not got everything right but people need to realise the financial realities
 
You ask the directors and Robertson why they said different then?

So they deliberately lied to us when they said we were covered to the end of the season and we would then break even that was before a UEFA cup final and selling Patterson plus all Gerrards compo.
That’s a completely different point. Here’s my take, for what it’s worth. A director (wrongly) makes a glib statement about re-investing when we make player sales. What he means is: when we make a significant player sale we will buy another player at a fraction of the cost to replace him.

You cannot ‘magic up’ money. It isn’t there. The Gerrard compo, the Patterson money and the money for Aribo will give us a small budget. I don’t like it, you clearly don’t, but that is the reality. We have lost 40 million in 2 years. That needs serviced.
 
We were wound up for 12 million you choose to ignore that fact as your more interested in following the Tims side of events.

I haven’t once asked to spend 10s of millions just what’s been promised reinvest sales in the playing squad.
We weren’t wound up for £12m. See below

RANGERS were today finally liquidated - inside just eight minutes.

The CVA proposal tabled to rescue the stricken football club has been formally rejected by creditors at a quickfire 10am meeting at Ibrox Stadium.

The Glasgow club will now be reformed as a 'newco' inside the next 24 hours and that will be called The Rangers Football Club.
READ: Bookies suspend betting on shock Rangers move for former Arsenal and Manchester United striker Robin Van Persie
Just 30 of the creditors owed money by the troubled Ibrox club attended in person or were represented by lawyers acting on their behalf, with others sending proxy votes

The result of the meeting was, of course, already a fait accompli given that major creditor, Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs, confirmed on Tuesday that it would reject the £8.5million Company Voluntary Agreement package tabled by Charles Green, the man who is attempting to take over the club which has been in administration since February 14, forcing liquidation of the existing plc.

HMRC, currently owed £21million out of a £55m debt pile – with the possibility of being owed up to a further £75m pending the outcome of a First Tier Tribunal appeal into the club's use of Employment Benefit Trusts to pay players – refused to accept a payment that would have seen little more than £1.9m being returned to the taxman.
 
Ah but that is definitely NOT what was said so that’s actually misleading the share holders. Naughty but probably not criminal.
What I remember was that we were not expecting break even for at least another year so there were still ongoing losses to cover. I understand that we still have instalments on Kent to pay and we have given Goldson a new contract.
 
It is but £8m for Patterson and now £6m for Aribo (by the way if £6m is true I’d be hunting Wilson).
Would you? What if Aribo is refusing to extend his contract and this is the best offer we have. Would you keep him for a season and let him leave for no fee?
if you would then you’re just being stupid and slagging Ross Wilson for doing his job
 
What I remember was that we were not expecting break even for at least another year so there were still ongoing losses to cover. I understand that we still have instalments on Kent to pay and we have given Goldson a new contract.
Kent’s instalments would have been factored into the yearly budget. It’s not like that has sprung up as a surprise.

Again, another extreme example of folk falling over themselves to make a defence case

Goldson new deal - it’s not like we’ve upped his wages by an absolute fortune or paid several million for him. His wages would have been accounted for back at the AGM. Granted it may be a couple of grand extra per week but not earth shattering money.

In any case, Itten, Bacuna have since departed. Defoe’s wages too etc
 
Kent’s instalments would have been factored into the yearly budget. It’s not like that has sprung up as a surprise.

Again, another extreme example of folk falling over themselves to make a defence case

Goldson new deal - it’s not like we’ve upped his wages by an absolute fortune or paid several million for him. His wages would have been accounted for back at the AGM. Granted it may be a couple of grand extra per week but not earth shattering money.

In any case, Itten, Bacuna have since departed. Defoe’s wages too etc
So basically your having a go at those that don't share your view about us not having spent in the transfer market so far?

40+ days I guess minimum still to go..

This is your 'extreme example'?
 
So basically your having a go at those that don't share your view about us not having spent in the transfer market so far?

40+ days I guess minimum still to go..

This is your 'extreme example'?
No. I’m pointing out that defending Robertson’s AGM comments by trying to claim Kent’s instalments need covered by our unforeseen additional income is nonsense.
 
No. I’m pointing out that defending Robertson’s AGM comments by trying to claim Kent’s instalments need covered by our unforeseen additional income is nonsense.
In Nov21 if recall correctly it was communicated that we still had a bit to go in terms of the funding gap..

So.. ignore that, because its an uncomfortable truth, & focus on revenue with no context.
 
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No. I’m pointing out that defending Robertson’s AGM comments by trying to claim Kent’s instalments need covered by our unforeseen additional income is nonsense.
I didn’t say that these costs wouldn’t be in the budget or known about What I’m saying is that these costs are investments in the playing squad so what Robertson said was right. Again you conveniently ignore the fact that we were still operating at a loss
 
Bennett stated in an podcast a year ago that player sales will not used to repay directors loans. I thought he went on to state player sales would be reinvested back into the squad but there are no direct quotes in the article from Bennett.

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2021/06/...s-summer-transfer-pledge-over-director-loans/

I don't expect player sales to be fully reinvested back into the squad, the reality is that we can't continue to make losses year after year. We need to start spending more wisely. If aribo is the only loss/sale this summer then great but Wilson needs to identify at least 3-4 first team squad players for me. Davis, McGregor, Arfield are now squad fillers, although McGregor may play a lot more than we suspect if a decent keeper is not recruited, Balogun also gone means we need a CH who may well partner Goldson for most of the season.

Edmiston House rebuild is also a significant outlay that is going to redirect funds away from investing in the squad.
 
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Bennett confirmed in an article a year ago that player sales will not used to repay directors loans but would go to investing back into the squad.

We'll need to see if that's how things pan out.

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2021/06/...s-summer-transfer-pledge-over-director-loans/

The funding shortfalls re edmiston house may mean otherwise with regards to player sales all being reinvested back into the squad.
Bennett doesn’t actually say anywhere in that article that player sales will be invested back into the squad. Only the person writing the story says that
 
Just to be perfectly clear about what you are saying;

Robertson, at the AGM, stood up and said there was no shortfall for the year, all running costs were covered?
No by the end of next season, And that they needed 7 million to break even this season which was already covered that’s before the Patterson sale and Gerrards compo.

We have also been told on numerous occasions that player sales would be reinvested.

If that’s not true and they are required to keep us afloat then fair enough but they shouldn’t be telling fans one thing then doing another.
 
We weren’t wound up for £12m. See below

RANGERS were today finally liquidated - inside just eight minutes.

The CVA proposal tabled to rescue the stricken football club has been formally rejected by creditors at a quickfire 10am meeting at Ibrox Stadium.

The Glasgow club will now be reformed as a 'newco' inside the next 24 hours and that will be called The Rangers Football Club.
READ: Bookies suspend betting on shock Rangers move for former Arsenal and Manchester United striker Robin Van Persie
Just 30 of the creditors owed money by the troubled Ibrox club attended in person or were represented by lawyers acting on their behalf, with others sending proxy votes

The result of the meeting was, of course, already a fait accompli given that major creditor, Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs, confirmed on Tuesday that it would reject the £8.5million Company Voluntary Agreement package tabled by Charles Green, the man who is attempting to take over the club which has been in administration since February 14, forcing liquidation of the existing plc.

HMRC, currently owed £21million out of a £55m debt pile – with the possibility of being owed up to a further £75m pending the outcome of a First Tier Tribunal appeal into the club's use of Employment Benefit Trusts to pay players – refused to accept a payment that would have seen little more than £1.9m being returned to the taxman.
Where did you get this pearl of wisdom the Record?
 
At last someone answers the question of when it was said. In other words before the deal to get rid of Sports Direct? Circumstances change you know. Also paying instalments on players we have already signed would also count as investing in the squad. Accuse him of deliberately lying is a serious accusation
We have spent 500k on players in close to 3 years so I highly doubt we are still paying anyone up and even if so it’s not like it’s a surprise is it ?
 
We have spent 500k on players in close to 3 years so I highly doubt we are still paying anyone up and even if so it’s not like it’s a surprise is it ?
I am fairly sure we have still to pay for Kent. It not being a surprise does not mean we have the money in the bank to do it. We are loss making - it remains to be seen what this year’s accounts will show.
 
He then goes on a PR stunt to get fans to put money into Club1872, so they could give him the money rather than buy shares directly from the Club.
This is what sticks in my craw, particularly as the vocal agitators on here like to carp on about the board only being after the blue pound.
 
But he didn’t say ALL money from sales will go to new players. If we’re lucky, and depending on the climate, it might me 1/3.
500k in close to 3 years despite bringing in 15 million at least in sales and compo.

1/3 wouldn’t be the worst.
 
Of course, you would, a guy ( who deserves enormous respect for what he did to start with ) who walked out and left the rest of the Directors to pick up a £27m Debt, according to ITK on here, then demanded his £5m back when we needed it.
He then goes on a PR stunt to get fans to put money into Club1872, so they could give him the money rather than buy shares directly from the Club.
He then tries to justify it in the press by having a go about certain fans having short memories and praising Club1872 for helping regime change.
It must be Dave that has a problem with his memory as Club1872 weren't formed until a couple of years after regime change
Can we stop all this rewriting history, Dave King is in our past and we have a Board who will make errors of judgment but no one can deny they have the very best interests, hopes and dreams for Rangers
I think where the frustration comes from is that we haven't really invested in the first team when we were in a position of strength. We lost a full management team who won us arguably our most important title ever because the board didn't or couldn't back them.
 
But he didn’t say ALL money from sales will go to new players. If we’re lucky, and depending on the climate, it might me 1/3.
I am pretty sure Wilson and/or Robertson did on RTV. Anyway £8m for Patterson plus £6/£10 for Aribo should see us able to spend significantly? That appears to not be the case.
 
Since he took over as Chairman all spending has basically stopped hence my original point.
Your words were "Park will not spend a penny he doesn't need to".

You've posted at length about the board being held to their words, yet don't expect to be held to yours.

King stepped down March 2020. That summer, we signed Roofe, Hagi, Itten, Defoe, Bassey, Zungu, and McLaughlin for a total of around 10m.

The winter window saw Simpson and Wright come in.

Last summer we had Bacuna, Lundstram, Sakala and Ofoborh.

Winter saw us sign Zukowski, Diallo, Ramsey and Sands.

This window we've confirmed Souttar and are about to sign Colak, and there's about another 7 weeks to go before the window shuts.

Where is your evidence that 'all spending has basically stopped', because to anyone who actually looks at the evidence, spending has continued.
 
I am pretty sure Wilson and/or Robertson did on RTV. Anyway £8m for Patterson plus £6/£10 for Aribo should see us able to spend significantly? That appears to not be the case.
Here’s the issue. Define significant. Define spend (for example on renewing contracts or new players). The board would be better not saying anything. Situations change. They might mean well and say something then they’re accused of conning fans when they weren’t. There’s also the counter narrative that people won’t evidence (on both sides of the debate). For example, we expected 3 million from Australia - that’s not happening now.
 
Your words were "Park will not spend a penny he doesn't need to".

You've posted at length about the board being held to their words, yet don't expect to be held to yours.

King stepped down March 2020. That summer, we signed Roofe, Hagi, Itten, Defoe, Bassey, Zungu, and McLaughlin for a total of around 10m.

The winter window saw Simpson and Wright come in.

Last summer we had Bacuna, Lundstram, Sakala and Ofoborh.

Winter saw us sign Zukowski, Diallo, Ramsey and Sands.

This window we've confirmed Souttar and are about to sign Colak, and there's about another 7 weeks to go before the window shuts.

Where is your evidence that 'all spending has basically stopped', because to anyone who actually looks at the evidence, spending has continued.

Roofe , Hagi an Itten were our last proper spends 2 years ago we have since brought in in excess of let’s say 16 million in fees,

We are paying less than 2 million for Colak and potentially bringing in 10 million for Aribo.

I will be shocked if we spend anything like 10 million this season unless we sell another big hitter.

Yes we are paying wages but our lack
Of investment in the team lost us the Champions league last season and automatic qualification this season.

I believe Park being the chairman has a lot to do with us spending very little that was my initial point.
 
So Goldson re-signed for free?
I don’t know what we did with Goldson maybe we let his contract run out so we could give him a sweetener to sign to save breaking our wage structure it’s possible, What we didn’t do was give him the 16 million at least we have brought in in sales.

If you read back my posts my complaint is we aren’t buying players not that we aren’t paying them.
 
Roofe , Hagi an Itten were our last proper spends 2 years ago we have since brought in in excess of let’s say 16 million in fees,

We are paying less than 2 million for Colak and potentially bringing in 10 million for Aribo.

I will be shocked if we spend anything like 10 million this season unless we sell another big hitter.

Yes we are paying wages but our lack
Of investment in the team lost us the Champions league last season and automatic qualification this season.

I believe Park being the chairman has a lot to do with us spending very little that was my initial point.
Spending very little? We are spending more than our income
 
No by the end of next season, And that they needed 7 million to break even this season which was already covered that’s before the Patterson sale and Gerrards compo.

We have also been told on numerous occasions that player sales would be reinvested.

If that’s not true and they are required to keep us afloat then fair enough but they shouldn’t be telling fans one thing then doing another.
The ‘break even’ figure would have been based on our fixed costs. On top of that, we have variable costs. Costs that change based on output. Our European run is an example where we would have incurred massive increases in salary, heat, light, security and pitch maintenance. Also, you can’t spend ‘break even’. Say we make a 10 million pound profit. What about next year and the need to pay off the loans we needed this year? What you’re advocating is writing off 40 million worth of losses because we’ll make a profit this year. This is the norm now. You keep talking as of there’s a decision been made to spend nothing. There’s no decision to be made here - our investors cannot finance is going forward. They’ve said that numerous times. If they really wanted, they couldn’t even get there hands in the money. No bank would be crazy enough to give them it.
 
I don’t know what we did with Goldson maybe we let his contract run out so we could give him a sweetener to sign to save breaking our wage structure it’s possible, What we didn’t do was give him the 16 million at least we have brought in in sales.

If you read back my posts my complaint is we aren’t buying players not that we aren’t paying them.
No your complaint is that we aren’t investing in the squad but there are two ways to invest - transfer fees for new players and wages for existing players
 
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