Dave Vos new assistant manager

mountloyal

Well-Known Member
Top drawer signing. Wonder if he will be heading up our youth structure rather than working with first team? The way ahead is really to hoover up the top youths in the UK and bring them through.
 

ronadamus_prime

Well-Known Member
I think the attitude within supporters CAN change. There's generally 2 or 3 other teams in Holland that can challenge occasionally, like Feyenoord, PSV, AZ . In Scotland we only have the tims. We shouldn't suffer as much. Also, the rest of their league is better than the rest of ours.

We've got top class facilities that should have been churning out quality by now (and to be fair, Patterson the main one does look class, and of course Billy Gilmour). All we needed was the correct coaches and looks like we're getting it

I'm highly sceptical about the attitude changing. I've seen zero evidence of that being apparent or on the cusp of happening. Just my opinion. Happy to be proven wrong.

You see that's an issue for us. The fact we only have one proper competitor for the title is a major issue. It means our coefficient remains shit. Which limits our finances and means we become overly reliant on European success to remain relevant. It means our fiancnces would take a hit while theirs prospers. That's less of an issue in the Dutch league because Dutch sides regurlalry compete in European group stage football, meaning the coefficient remains healthy. Meaning two CL spaces are available (usually one automatic place and the other a qualifying place).

The Ajax model has been in place for close to 60 years. People should temper the expectations around our ability to emulate them.
 

ChildOfGod

Well-Known Member
I completely agree. I just disagree with the notion that the Ajax model is the correct model to use for us as a club. Plus it's worth noting that the Ajax model is 60 years in the making. It's not something that's been implemented relatively recently. Dutch football has always been associated with youth development. That's not something that could be said for Scottish football.

Fully behind the notion of building during fallow years. However sceptical on whether or not going fully down the road of the Ajax youth model is a good fit for us. That's all.
Yeah I do understand your good point re 60 years and the cultural differences between nations and peoples and clubs but why couldn’t we put a version together across say 10-15 years ?

Let’s assume much of it has been done before then you map that to what we presently have and go from there . Maybe we have 10% of what we need eg . Then it’s just a lot of mimicking and adjusting .

Of course it’s possible and of course Ajax have a world of expertise in this but if we are aspiring why wouldn’t we aspire to that system .

Wrt the fans then it’s quite obvious what you do to change attitudes , you manipulate them by words and actions . Recently we have been through Sectarian matters where we have matured shall we say . It’s just something similar imo
 

scottie59

Well-Known Member
Sounds like an extremely exciting appointment!

Love how the clubs operates so professionally now!
Agree with you there, even to the extent how they club went about getting GVB business done had all the media outlets having to guess stories rather than dealing with facts was good seeing t hem scramble for information, but was hard on us fans not knowing what was happening and tracking planes etc but was funny along the way, but main thing was no leaks from club which was nice to see
 

Texas ranger

Well-Known Member
I'm highly sceptical about the attitude changing. I've seen zero evidence of that being apparent or on the cusp of happening. Just my opinion. Happy to be proven wrong.

You see that's an issue for us. The fact we only have one proper competitor for the title is a major issue. It means our coefficient remains shit. Which limits our finances and means we become overly reliant on European success to remain relevant. It means our fiancnces would take a hit while theirs prospers. That's less of an issue in the Dutch league because Dutch sides regurlalry compete in European group stage football, meaning the coefficient remains healthy. Meaning two CL spaces are available (usually one automatic place and the other a qualifying place).

The Ajax model has been in place for close to 60 years. People should temper the expectations around our ability to emulate them.
I don’t think we’ll be emulating them to anywhere near their success level anytime soon. I do hope we start to make meaningful strides towards changing and improving an area at Rangers that has been for the most part a failure.
 

Craigton

Well-Known Member
I completely agree. I just disagree with the notion that the Ajax model is the correct model to use for us as a club. Plus it's worth noting that the Ajax model is 60 years in the making. It's not something that's been implemented relatively recently. Dutch football has always been associated with youth development. That's not something that could be said for Scottish football.

Fully behind the notion of building during fallow years. However sceptical on whether or not going fully down the road of the Ajax youth model is a good fit for us. That's all.
I agree with you that we cannot use an exact copy of the Ajax model but I don't think we need to copy the Ajax model exactly. I think we will use some, even most parts of it, but also make adaptations to suit the unique, Scottish football situation that we find ourselves in.

I also don't see us having the same fallow years during a rebuild that Ajax had, as the Dutch league does have other teams who can be very competitive every so often. We just don't have that in Scotland. Its us or them. Any rebuild would not need the same levels of progression in Scotland as it does in Holland to have us compete again.

Edit. Spelling
 

AzorIbrox

Well-Known Member
Coming from hands down one of the best footballing institutions and youth academies in world football is a very exciting appointment for the club.

The players should be relishing training every day with these guys.
 

ronadamus_prime

Well-Known Member
Yeah I do understand your good point re 60 years and the cultural differences between nations and peoples and clubs but why couldn’t we put a version together across say 10-15 years ?

Let’s assume much of it has been done before then you map that to what we presently have and go from there . Maybe we have 10% of what we need eg . Then it’s just a lot of mimicking and adjusting .

Of course it’s possible and of course Ajax have a world of expertise in this but if we are aspiring why wouldn’t we aspire to that system .

Wrt the fans then it’s quite obvious what you do to change attitudes , you manipulate them by words and actions . Recently we have been through Sectarian matters where we have matured shall we say . It’s just something similar imo

I think the issue we have and it's a fairly unique one in European football, is our proximity to England. It's far too easy for us to have our top talents poached from top English clubs. That's purely from a financial sensibility, they can offer financial packages we simply cannot ever match. That's no slight against us, they'd do the same to Ajax if they had geography to do so. So it makes our task a far more tricky one than the one Ajax faces.

I'm not saying the club should completely neglect youth development or not aspire to be better when it comes to producing top level talents ready for the first 11. That's something I'm very pro us doing, I just have my doubts about whether or not it's viable for us to do it in the manner in which Ajax have done it.
 

ChildOfGod

Well-Known Member
I think the issue we have and it's a fairly unique one in European football, is our proximity to England. It's far too easy for us to have our top talents poached from top English clubs. That's purely from a financial sensibility, they can offer financial packages we simply cannot ever match. That's no slight against us, they'd do the same to Ajax if they had geography to do so. So it makes our task a far more tricky one than the one Ajax faces.

I'm not saying the club should completely neglect youth development or not aspire to be better when it comes to producing top level talents ready for the first 11. That's something I'm very pro us doing, I just have my doubts about whether or not it's viable for us to do it in the manner in which Ajax have done it.
Real success comes from small wins mate .

Given our approach of capping salary spending around 50% of our revenue We need a part of the club that delivers quality talent . It’s really that which will foster us into success .

I’m optimistic it can be done and that is based upon what we now have compared to what we did say 6 years ago .

None of these wins happened by accident they are indicators that we have a decent setup and we can definitely get better
 

Hurricane Run

Well-Known Member
Its hard not to get excited by this new management team. I hope the supporters give them time to implement the changes they would like. I know how much this season could mean to the club, but we cant allow that to manifest into malcontention if Gio doesnt hit the ground running.
 

SteVM1872

Well-Known Member
The set up at Ajax means they can go 3/4 years without a trophy, can’t see Rangers fans accepting that to develop some youth players.

Not necessarily saying they won’t draft in some youth guys, just merely highlighting the Ajax model comes at a price.

I really struggle to see lack of trophies as an argument against giving youth a chance these days given that we've won 1 trophy in the last 10 since Gerrard and 1 trophy in the last 10 years. Seems we're pretty well versed in 'lack of success' to me already even without the perceived 'gambling' on youth!

At some point it will dawn on people that the era of us buying a whole 22 to 25 man squad is over and trying to continue with this is just resulting in us spreading the jam on what we can spend ever thinner. If giving youth more opportunity means no more Jack Simpson/Barker/Jones squad fillers earning way too much and unshiftable on long contracts, it's no bad thing.
 

Wilbert

Well-Known Member
Its been said before that they have a better youth system…. They seem to produce or give more players a chance also.

Its not unstaunch to see/say that.

They have more youth scouts an spend more money on it as well.

Hopefully we over take them in the next few years

Remember we had to start ours from scratch not long ago

As someone who is involved in academy football, albeit at a different club, no they dont.

Ive said it before on here, our academy progress doesnt show now but it will over the next 5/10 years and Nathan Patterson is the 1st of many to come through. Our academy teams are ahead at every age group now, especially in the younger age groups. Some of the coaches we have in the younger groups are the best around.

Celtic did have a great setup, but went downhill when they started employing people like Brian Delaney.
 

insanicdrunk

Well-Known Member
I really struggle to see lack of trophies as an argument against giving youth a chance these days given that we've won 1 trophy in the last 10 since Gerrard and 1 trophy in the last 10 years. Seems we're pretty well versed in 'lack of success' to me already even without the perceived 'gambling' on youth!

At some point it will dawn on people that the era of us buying a whole 22 to 25 man squad is over and trying to continue with this is just resulting in us spreading the jam on what we can spend ever thinner. If giving youth more opportunity means no more Jack Simpson/Barker/Jones squad fillers earning way too much and unshiftable on long contracts, it's no bad thing.

The league need to do something more for youth. Getting subs back up to 5 would be a first step. We kept Kelly, hes not fully trusted to feature yet, however, if it has 5 subs, he would have had match day experience and some game time as well.
 

TheEgg

Well-Known Member
As someone who is involved in academy football, albeit at a different club, no they dont.

Ive said it before on here, our academy progress doesnt show now but it will over the next 5/10 years and Nathan Patterson is the 1st of many to come through. Our academy teams are ahead at every age group now, especially in the younger age groups. Some of the coaches we have in the younger groups are the best around.

Celtic did have a great setup, but went downhill when they started employing people like Brian Delaney.

I agree, we wont see the benefits right now as weve not long started in youth development terms, after 2012…. as I said hopefully we should see us overtake them in producing the goods in the next few years
 

el bandido

Well-Known Member
Get a grip he’s what he is a B Team coach if you want to vent your anger like myself take it out on a team gone to Aston Villa.
Hahaha it was tongue in cheek. Next time I’ll put an emoji for you.

I still expect the B team coach to see taking Aribo off was insanity btw. In fact I’d expect Ray Charles to have seen that on Sunday
 

Jelle1880

Well-Known Member
Sounds great. Ajax youth academy is among the best in the world, anyone that spent a decade there can only be of benefit to us.
 

erskine bear

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
As someone who is involved in academy football, albeit at a different club, no they dont.

Ive said it before on here, our academy progress doesnt show now but it will over the next 5/10 years and Nathan Patterson is the 1st of many to come through. Our academy teams are ahead at every age group now, especially in the younger age groups. Some of the coaches we have in the younger groups are the best around.

Celtic did have a great setup, but went downhill when they started employing people like Brian Delaney.
Totally agree, it is very exciting.
 

Gary Mitchell

Well-Known Member
doubt it.. youth at Ajax dont come cheap, as they dont tend to sell their youths, they prefer to develop them then sell them for massive fee's
Excited at the prospect of youths actually getting brought through under the new set up if we perform half as well as the Ajax model has we are laughing.
 

BrooklynBlue

Well-Known Member
Real success comes from small wins mate .

Given our approach of capping salary spending around 50% of our revenue We need a part of the club that delivers quality talent . It’s really that which will foster us into success .

I’m optimistic it can be done and that is based upon what we now have compared to what we did say 6 years ago .

None of these wins happened by accident they are indicators that we have a decent setup and we can definitely get better

That's the key to me (in bold). Instead of giving out 4.5years contracts to the likes of Simpson + Wright, for example, there are players coming through that can be be a part of the first team squad.

Of course, we dream of a Barry Ferguson-type talent. But there's been such financial wastage at Ibrox on squad players, it's actually quite frightening. That needs addressed.
 

bilkobear

Well-Known Member
Yeah I do understand your good point re 60 years and the cultural differences between nations and peoples and clubs but why couldn’t we put a version together across say 10-15 years ?

Let’s assume much of it has been done before then you map that to what we presently have and go from there . Maybe we have 10% of what we need eg . Then it’s just a lot of mimicking and adjusting .

Of course it’s possible and of course Ajax have a world of expertise in this but if we are aspiring why wouldn’t we aspire to that system .

Wrt the fans then it’s quite obvious what you do to change attitudes , you manipulate them by words and actions . Recently we have been through Sectarian matters where we have matured shall we say . It’s just something similar imo
Six players in our CWC winning team in 1972 had come through the then equivalent of our youth structure.
 

TerrySilverLoyal

Well-Known Member
Don’t know why some are concerned about If a manager ever leaves need to replace the back staff like what happened with gerrard.

That’s the way of the world now in football haha.

Any manager worth his salt wants his own people in.

Not wishing him away already but our next manager will have his own team as well.

Encouraged by these appointments though. Great that he’s surrounding himself with those close to him and by all accounts knowledgeable staff

And as an aside Roy makaay has some aura just looking at him. Wouldn’t like to be on the wrong side of him haha
 

usbear

Well-Known Member
Well this has the potential to be something special

Gio and Ross Wilson not letting any grass grow under their feet
 

bornabluenose

Well-Known Member
Don’t know why some are concerned about If a manager ever leaves need to replace the back staff like what happened with gerrard.

That’s the way of the world now in football haha.

Any manager worth his salt wants his own people in.

Not wishing him away already but our next manager will have his own team as well.

Encouraged by these appointments though. Great that he’s surrounding himself with those close to him and by all accounts knowledgeable staff

And as an aside Roy makaay has some aura just looking at him. Wouldn’t like to be on the wrong side of him haha
Think most of the concern was, the speed in which we had to do it.

Given that, we have done pretty well.
 

brain

Well-Known Member
That’s an exciting appointment, given most of FF were desperate for Neil McCann :)

38, with 10 years experience, is a good age too. Lots of energy and hunger to succeed and not someone who is chasing a payday.
 

rupertdabear

Well-Known Member
WOW ! that is a big appointment .really liking how this is all panning out .
a few rockets under the players asses now and we'll be flying .
 

Klos the Boss

Well-Known Member
Absolutely buzzing about this…. A real coup for us.

I mentioned on here a few times that my lad is in the Ajax academy here and so I often get chance to see their u16s and 18s train too and the amount of talent is unreal (no surprises there), the training sessions I watch are of an incredible standard.

Had a few chats with him as well, always spotted my Rangers gear whenever I had it on and knew a lot about the league etc and mentioned how he wanted to go to Old firm one day after hearing so much about it. Absolutely lives and breathes football.

This guy is regarded as one of the best coaches in the entire Dutch system … what a signing.
Sounds good mate
 

billybatts

Well-Known Member
WOW ! that is a big appointment .really liking how this is all panning out .
a few rockets under the players asses now and we'll be flying .
Hope you haven't Jinxed it for tonight . Ajax were big on scouting talent from Africa, didn't Kanu start at Ajax? Finidi George ?
 

Sunnyvale_Loyal

Well-Known Member
Totally agree, also, that was with about 4months worth of planning.

In respect of this appointment, outside looking in, it looks brilliant.

We don’t know how it will all pan out but Ross Wilson deserves considerable credit
The other week people were saying he's shite and useless, and all of his signings are trash.
 

Whats up doc

Well-Known Member
Yeah I do understand your good point re 60 years and the cultural differences between nations and peoples and clubs but why couldn’t we put a version together across say 10-15 years ?

Let’s assume much of it has been done before then you map that to what we presently have and go from there . Maybe we have 10% of what we need eg . Then it’s just a lot of mimicking and adjusting .

Of course it’s possible and of course Ajax have a world of expertise in this but if we are aspiring why wouldn’t we aspire to that system .

Wrt the fans then it’s quite obvious what you do to change attitudes , you manipulate them by words and actions . Recently we have been through Sectarian matters where we have matured shall we say . It’s just something similar imo
Unbelievable youth prospects want to join ajax from all over the world because they will get an opportunity if they are good enough. We can’t attract that kind of player IMO.
 

renfrewger

Member
Dave Vos and Zeb Jacobs - clear emphasis on our youth players for the future, great signs for the ambitions and long term plans of the club. With these 2 in place you can probably foresee easier paths into the 1st team for youth players, if the system works how it should then we may be able to attract extremely talented young players into the academy, with a view to getting 1st team football, especially european football. Chuffed to bits about this
 

Giovanni Van Henry

Well-Known Member
By the looks of things Gio is bringing in one of the highest rated youth coaches in football . Can see his role as being the man who transitions the best of your players into the senior squad . He’ll have a look at who’s ready to make the step up and work in the areas of their game that will bring them to that level . If I was the likes of McCann and Alegria I’d fancy my changes for featuring quite a bit after Christmas. It’s massive for us if we can get a player a year through the academy it’s the way the dutch teams operate and with gio being a huge part of dutch football I think we can expect to see more given a chance and this guy we’ve just got could really take out club to the next level
 

Bristol_bnose3

Well-Known Member
Aye but he's no Barry Ferguson :shh:

"V for Vos"

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sheddensbear

Well-Known Member
I remember Jan Derks as our Academy chief. When Auchenhowie was opened, the general opinion was that we'd have a conveyor belt of talent. Jerks said the most important things to get a successful youth policy were
Identifying the correct players, ie scouting
Improve the players, ie coaching
Facilities

Nothing has changed in 20 odd years. I assume this newly with concentrate on the youths breaking into the 1st team (Kelly, Patterson, Mayo) and concentrating in their specialised coaching.
 
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