Dementia is ‘disease of footballers’ - 7,700 study sample.

grahamdavid

grahamdavid

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Dementia is ‘disease of footballers’​


Last month the former Scotland and Manchester United footballer Denis Law said he was suffering from Alzheimer’s disease and vascular dementia

Last month the former Scotland and Manchester United footballer Denis Law said he was suffering from Alzheimer’s disease and vascular dementia
CLAUDE PARIS/ AP

Cases of dementia and brain injury among footballers must be considered an “industrial disease”, Scottish ministers have been told. Michael Marra, a Labour MSP, will use a member’s debate to call on Holyrood for “real action” on the issue.

Research at Glasgow University looked at 7,700 men who played professional football and found they were 3.5 times more likely to die from neuro-degenerative disease. There was also a fivefold increase in Alzheimer’s disease.

Marra said: “Every month we hear of more high-profile cases of former footballers being diagnosed. Behind those will be dozens more unreported.”

Last month Denis Law, 81, the former Scotland and Manchester United striker, said he was suffering from Alzheimer’s disease and vascular dementia.
 
Johnny Fontane said:
Heading the ball deliberately will be outlawed in the next few years. It'll have a huge impact on the game but the threat of litigation will ensure that the authorities won't allow it within their rules.
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I can't see how they can outlaw heading without destroying football's integrity. They may go down other routes like limiting the amount of headers a player can make in a match, or, I think most likely, introducing protective headwear.
 
Johnny Fontane said:
Heading the ball deliberately will be outlawed in the next few years. It'll have a huge impact on the game but the threat of litigation will ensure that the authorities won't allow it within their rules.
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Can’t make up my mind if banning it could be a good thing (apart from the medical benefit)- every game would be like Futsal. Imagine the silky skills on display at a Livingston v St Mirren game.
Probably could change all the pitches in the league to 3 g too.
 
Thedesolateone said:
Horrible disease, I’d rather take a double tap to the head if I’m ever afflicted by it.
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Indeed, but I'm really not sure if this is not being over emphasised in regard to footballers. Most of the recent high profile sufferers have been late 70's into their 80's where just about every one of us become at risk. Anything however that furthers research into this has to be a plus.
 
mart22 said:
I can't see how they can outlaw heading without destroying football's integrity. They may go down other routes like limiting the amount of headers a player can make in a match, or, I think most likely, introducing protective headwear.
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I know you are only speculating but how the hell would that be policed? And what would the outcome be if a player takes an extra header?
 
mart22 said:
I can't see how they can outlaw heading without destroying football's integrity. They may go down other routes like limiting the amount of headers a player can make in a match, or, I think most likely, introducing protective headwear.
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protective headwear is useless.
 
Surely there's a difference between heading a big waterlogged leather ball and the lightweight balls used today though?

Harsh as it might sound, you'd maybe have to put it down as 'one of them things' and the risk you take if you have a long career in football. I'm sure other occupations come with health implications down the line.
 
Might be an unpopular opinion but I wouldn't mind a trial season with headers banned. It will force players to focus more on their technical ability and the ball won't be in the air 50% of the game.

The PSG - Bayern game last season was a great spectacle with all of the intricate little passes, the dribbling, close control etc. Banning of heading I think would create more games of that level.
 
dt17 said:
Surely there's a difference between heading a big waterlogged leather ball and the lightweight balls used today though?

Harsh as it might sound, you'd maybe have to put it down as 'one of them things' and the risk you take if you have a long career in football. I'm sure other occupations come with health implications down the line.
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The dry ball is heavier now than it was before 1932.

Also for over 60 years now the ball absorbs a tiny amount of water when wet. Less than a gramme.

As another poster thought, the force of today’s footballs is greater because their velocity is greater.

There’s no doubt about it, heading the ball causes brain damage but as you say, dt, it is “one of those things”.

The important aspect of all the research is that it allows people to make an informed decision about heading footballs.

A lot of people engage in dangerous sports which incur fatalities each year. I have done. But I knew the risks.

I guess, that’s the point of the studies.

:)
 
The big difference between now and years ago is the ball is nothing like as heavy so not sure the collected data is even that relevant

They will probably make the ball lighter again rather than remove heading completely
 
Craigie said:
I know you are only speculating but how the hell would that be policed? And what would the outcome be if a player takes an extra header?
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Most likely it would be policed by technology. And again only speculating, but when a player reaches maximum headers he gets subbed. The rules would have major implications for squads, but with medical evidence piling up something will have to be done.
 
Modern balls aren't as bad as the old heavy ones, but it's still a clear risk to spend a career heading the ball. Would soft headgear offer protection?
 
grahamdavid said:
The dry ball is heavier now than it was before 1932.

Also for over 60 years now the ball absorbs a tiny amount of water when wet. Less than a gramme.

As another poster thought, the force of today’s footballs is greater because their velocity is greater.

There’s no doubt about it, heading the ball causes brain damage but as you say, dt, it is “one of those things”.

The important aspect of all the research is that it allows people to make an informed decision about heading footballs.

A lot of people engage in dangerous sports which incur fatalities each year. I have done. But I knew the risks.

I guess, that’s the point of the studies.

:)
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I hope thats the point of the research but i do worry that the powers thst be see this and implement massive changes to the game i.e limit/ ban heading.
 
mart22 said:
Most likely it would be policed by technology. And again only speculating, but when a player reaches maximum headers he gets subbed. The rules would have major implications for squads, but with medical evidence piling up something will have to be done.
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I get that but boxing still happens and mma is massive now. I dont need research to tell me if i partook in either of those sports that i have a chance of brain damage yet folk still do knowing those risks.
 
Topps said:
I get that but boxing still happens and mma is massive now. I dont need research to tell me if i partook in either of those sports that i have a chance of brain damage yet folk still do knowing those risks.
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I agree with you.
However, I think football is the kind of sport that won't allow players to take risks with dementia. The governing bodies will do their research, pay a lot of money to specialists to come up with solutions, and they will implement the one they decide offers the best protection.
 
There’s no way heading will be banned. Look at the NFL that seems to be the worst sport you can play yet it survived the shock of the CTE scandal.

I would like to know the difference between the balls of yesteryear and today’s in terms of impact? Can remember years ago watching a study of MMA gloves, boxing gloves and a fist and the boxing glove was the worst because of the circumference of the impact on the brain.

Every jobs carriers risks, like spray painters with isocyanates etc.
 
This latest study backs up others before it which show an ex pro footballer has a far higher risk of dementia. Higher risk of all brain disease as well like MND.

I can’t see how it can be outlawed though without fundamentally changing the sport.

There’s things they can do to lessen the risk though, like reducing it in kids when their heads aren’t fully developed, possibly limiting it in training, plus extra protection for head collisions over and above what we already have.
 
mart22 said:
I can't see how they can outlaw heading without destroying football's integrity. They may go down other routes like limiting the amount of headers a player can make in a match, or, I think most likely, introducing protective headwear.
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Protective headgear does not protect from brain damage as the damage is caused by the accelerating force which results from heading a football (any kind of ball).

The connective tissue which supports the brain tears due to this acceleration force also rupturing blood vessels. The brain, which has the consistency of a blancmange, gets damaged.

This damages the brain to a greater or lesser extent. But every blow to the head results in this damage.

Often death occurs before this damage becomes apparent but if someone who has headed a ball or been a boxer or had other types of repeated blows to the head lives long enough, it shows itself in the form of some type of dementia.

The University of Glasgow study has 7,700 participants and offers conclusive proof.

But, it’s up to the individual. All long as everyone knows the risks of heading a ball or blows to the head it’s just “one of those things”.

:)
 
As hard as it is to imagine the game without headers, if there's a causal link between them and dementia steps have to be taken.

I've seen first hand how horrible it is and if there's any way of mitigating it we should. You can argue about players taking informed risk and knowing what they're getting into, but when you're 16-18 and potentially about to become a star, life in retirement must seem a million years away. I don't think they really understand what's at stake, and I certainly wouldn't want my 16 year old self deciding what's best for me now never mind in another 30 years.

Don't know if banning is the answer, but certainly even looking at headgear has to be a start.
 
grahamdavid said:
Protective headgear does not protect from brain damage as the damage is caused by the accelerating force which results from heading a football (any kind of ball).

The connective tissue which supports the brain tears due to this acceleration force also rupturing blood vessels. The brain, which has the consistency of a blancmange, gets damaged.

This damages the brain to a greater or lesser extent. But every blow to the head results in this damage.

Often death occurs before this damage becomes apparent but if someone who has headed a ball or been a boxer or had other types of repeated blows to the head lives long enough, it shows itself in the form of some type of dementia.

The University of Glasgow study has 7,700 participants and offers conclusive proof.

But, it’s up to the individual. All long as everyone knows the risks of heading a ball or blows to the head it’s just “one of those things”.

:)
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Well that might apply to current headwear used in other sports. Football currently has no headwear. I think scientists and doctors will collaborate with headwear experts to come up with effective solutions to the problem.
The risk of dementia is not one of those things if medical evidence conclusively proves dementia is caused by playing football. Football authorities will absolutely have to do something about introducing safety measures if it's true.
 
Can't read the full article. Has there been a confirmed direct link between heading the ball and development of dementia? Are there not other factors? Vascular dementia is narrowing of blood vessels, possibly caused by mini strokes. Does heading a ball cause mini strokes over time?
 
I wonder how this compares to other sports. Rugby and boxing will likely have even worse figures but do other high tempo non contact sports like athletics suffer similar problems as if so that would mean there is more to it than just head knocks.

But you have to think that treating heading like handball might be considered in the future
 
Banning heading isn't the answer.

It will completely change the way football has to be played, and while there are still contact and violent sports, shouldn't even be on the table.

How many boxers or MMA fighters are fucked in later years because of being punched and kicked in the head?

They won't take it out of those sports though, as it is an integral part of it.

Same goes for football imo, ban it for kids.
 
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Plenty older women get it, who have never played football in their lives.

Wish these people would leave us all alone. Dont want to take the risk, don't play football then. In fact, there are many sports that will need to be looked at.
 
mart22 said:
Well that might apply to current headwear used in other sports. Football currently has no headwear. I think scientists and doctors will collaborate with headwear experts to come up with effective solutions to the problem.
The risk of dementia is not one of those things if medical evidence conclusively proves dementia is caused by playing football. Football authorities will absolutely have to do something about introducing safety measures if it's true.
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I'm not wanting to argue with you or anyone else but the physics of the matter are unambiguous.

Headgear will not dissipate accelerative force of the head in any meaningful way.

It is the same force you feel when a car in which you are a passenger accelerates.

Also, the medical evidence is conclusive.
 
Barrymoped said:
Compared to the national average.
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Now you're at it, too.
The national average of what? Everyone in the UK? All men? All athletes?
The reluctance to be open about the facts does this study no good unless the aim is to generate tabloid headlines. Just disclose the facts, give us solid ground to determine the message it sends.
 
Simply a Bear said:
Can't read the full article. Has there been a confirmed direct link between heading the ball and development of dementia? Are there not other factors? Vascular dementia is narrowing of blood vessels, possibly caused by mini strokes. Does heading a ball cause mini strokes over time?
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Yes.
Yes.
Fact.
Yes.
 
Obviously hard to know without reading the studies, but are certain types of headers more damaging? E.g a centre back heading back a goal kick must be worse than headers from crosses etc. I wonder whether limiting certain types of headers might be considered.
 
mart22 said:
You know this because ...
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Because I've read studies and books.

Head guards give people a false sense of security, you are still going in to head a ball that is still going to cause your brain to get rattled inside your skull. A ball that is generally coming straight at you when you go to attack it, its coming out of the sky at a fair speed and you are meeting it head on!

Anyone that thinks you aren't doing damage doing that is complete and utterly delusional.
 
Commentator said:
Now you're at it, too.
The national average of what? Everyone in the UK? All men? All athletes?
The reluctance to be open about the facts does this study no good unless the aim is to generate tabloid headlines. Just disclose the facts, give us solid ground to determine the message it sends.
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I’m not “at” anything.

It’s several times higher for someone who has played football professionally compared with the risk of developing dementia is for the general public.

But within that there’s also some wiggle room, ie goalkeepers are less likely to develop it than centre half’s or centre forwards as they obviously spend less time heading the ball. As is the length of their career, someone who plays until they are 40 has a higher risk than another who plays in the same position but retires at 30.

But the basic premise is the same, the longer time you spend hammering things off your head leaves you at a higher risk than someone who doesn’t. It seems pretty obvious but proper studies such as these are still required to give greater detail.
 
lovenkrands72 said:
Obviously hard to know without reading the studies, but are certain types of headers more damaging? E.g a centre back heading back a goal kick must be worse than headers from crosses etc. I wonder whether limiting certain types of headers might be considered.
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No because you are still heading the ball and disturbing the brain in the process.

Whether its a cross at high speed or numerous small headers, the accumulation will add up over time.
 
Moz98 said:
Might be an unpopular opinion but I wouldn't mind a trial season with headers banned. It will force players to focus more on their technical ability and the ball won't be in the air 50% of the game.

The PSG - Bayern game last season was a great spectacle with all of the intricate little passes, the dribbling, close control etc. Banning of heading I think would create more games of that level.
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On the other hand the PSG-Bayern Champions League final was decided by a header.
 
Heading the ball shouldn’t be banned IMO.

At grassroots fine, in training even limit it, but in a proper competitive match - nah.
 
Simply a Bear said:
Can't read the full article. Has there been a confirmed direct link between heading the ball and development of dementia? Are there not other factors? Vascular dementia is narrowing of blood vessels, possibly caused by mini strokes. Does heading a ball cause mini strokes over time?
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All footballers should consider donating the brain's post death for it be examined, including their spinal cord.

But yes its all connected between dementia, Alzheimer's, ALS and its also been coupled with CTE.
 
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