Did Barry Ferguson get Paul le Guen the sack?

Christ I forgot all about that terrible Speirs book. I actually bought it I'm ashamed to say.

PLG was also hampered by the fact he really struggled with English.
I picked it up in Waterstones a few times to be fair, then seconds later chucked it back down in disgust

I take it it was shite?
 
I picked it up in Waterstones a few times to be fair, then seconds later chucked it back down in disgust

I take it it was shite?

As far as I can recall it wasn't great. (It was Sept 07 I read it)

Probably didn't help me putting a lot of expectation on to it as I to was quite fascinated by the whole Le Guen saga.
 
Christ I forgot all about that terrible Speirs book. I actually bought it I'm ashamed to say.

PLG was also hampered by the fact he really struggled with English.


It was doing the rounds on PDF files before it was even released. That's how I read it.

One of the final chapters was entitled something like "Did PLG manage the wrong Glasgow club ?" as the author seemed hellbent throughout the book on linking PLG's departure to his religion despite the man himself saying it was never an issue.

Oh Graham. Do fúck off.
 
We used to have this argument every week we didn’t win under Walter until it was clear PLG was hopeless in general other than being able to run for a bit in the Sahara.
 
It was doing the rounds on PDF files before it was even released. That's how I read it.

One of the final chapters was entitled something like "Did PLG manage the wrong Glasgow club ?" as the author seemed hellbent throughout the book on linking PLG's departure to his religion despite the man himself saying it was never an issue.

Oh Graham. Do fúck off.
In considering the PLG conundrum and his attitude to Scottish football, we shouldn't forget his trip to Tynecastle to scout Hearts v Celtic when he was spat on
 
But I don’t think players should ever really undermine the manager

Ever played with the office fat lady's front bottom?

that’s never played football chat you’ve come out with, some mangers are fucking shit - PLG was one, Barry knew what good looks, and looked like
 
Ever played with the office fat lady's front bottom?

that’s never played football chat you’ve come out with, some mangers are fucking shit - PLG was one, Barry knew what good looks, and looked like

I’d have preferred that in English, but still I think I’ve worked out what you were trying to say. Why does someone have to have played football to know that you ought to respect the chain of command?

And I did play football, not that I needed to in order to see it wasn’t working out under PLG. But that doesn’t change the fact Ferguson is a player who’s conduct as a Rangers captain hasn’t really been all that great at times. I doubt I’ll see another Rangers captain stripped of the armband twice in my lifetime.
 
No.

Implying that Le Guen could have done well were it not for grumblings in the dressing room is fantasy stuff.

If he couldn't handle a cohesive dressing room he was in the wrong job (as his employment history has proven).
He couldn't cope with the demands of the job, league or staff.

Also, apparently didn't have the skill set or desire to adapt to the situation.
 
Le guen worked his ticket by telling ferguson he would never play for us again coupled by giving rae the captaincy it gave him an easy out that being said theres no doubt in my mind that prick murray lied to him regarding transfers etc
 
At the time I thought Ferguson behaved very unprofessionally, in hind sight it probably did us a favour but I still don't think running to the media was the right thing to do.
 
I’d have preferred that in English, but still I think I’ve worked out what you were trying to say. Why does someone have to have played football to know that you ought to respect the chain of command?

because respect of “chain of command” is subservient glib nonsense when the person at the top of the chain of command is quite clearly incompetent, that’s a little you’d jump off a bridge if someone told you to, meek and weak.

Ferguson was stripped of the captaincy twice and you doubt you will see that happen again, I doubt you will see many players achieve what he did in his Rangers career again in your life time….

A fair few players who reach the top of their profession have frosty moments in their career and incidents with mangers when they know they are being poorly coached, quality players don’t get where they do by simply following “chain of command”
 
For a so called Rangers legend, I’ve hardly ever seen Ferguson take anything to do with us in the last 10 years.
Must admit was reading these posts thinking the same thing myself... the legend that simply adores the club now working with Rob McLean, Keith fae the rebel and Peter McGuire on the sellik show.

He might have stood up to a very weak Rangers manager that looked nervous and uncomfortable from the start but hes never once backed the club in the media or said anything controversial since.

Le Guen was obviously a Capello type thats been very lucky in football (getting jobs at the right time nice press coverage) but its possible the only thing he was correct about was Ferguson and his attitude.
 
As far as I can recall it wasn't great. (It was Sept 07 I read it)

Probably didn't help me putting a lot of expectation on to it as I to was quite fascinated by the whole Le Guen saga.

I bought it too- was 14 at the time. Most pretentiously written self indulgent drivel I’ve had the misfortune to read.
 
Is McNee still going?

Even though he was a 24-carat, dyed in the wool Tim, he was such a c**t that even Billy McNeil felt compelled to punch him.
 
because respect of “chain of command” is subservient glib nonsense when the person at the top of the chain of command is quite clearly incompetent, that’s a little you’d jump off a bridge if someone told you to, meek and weak.

Ferguson was stripped of the captaincy twice and you doubt you will see that happen again, I doubt you will see many players achieve what he did in his Rangers career again in your life time….

A fair few players who reach the top of their profession have frosty moments in their career and incidents with mangers when they know they are being poorly coached, quality players don’t get where they do by simply following “chain of command”

I can only guess you’re self employed if you think letting others do their job is subservient and meek. And to be honest I can’t think of many players who reached the top by plotting against their manager or trying to manage the team themselves, nor can I think of many players who’ve had the arm band taken away from them twice, including once by a bonafide Rangers legend.

But Steve Davis is only one title win away from equaling Barry’s haul, and when he does it he’ll have done so without ever getting ideas above his post, without ever embarrassing us or himself, and I doubt he’ll later run off to forge a media career talking shite about us either. Barry is the most gifted player this country has produced in my time, but when it comes to his conduct he’s been a massive let down at times.
 
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Le Guen was obviously a Capello type thats been very lucky in football (getting jobs at the right time nice press coverage) but its possible the only thing he was correct about was Ferguson and his attitude.
I agree with what you say about Barry oddly enough, but RE Capello you really need to step back and just admit you were spectacularly wrong on that one and knew nothing of his career in Italy or Spain, instead forming a strong emotional opinion based on him disappointing you with England.

4 league titles, 3 Copa Italia’s and one Champions league with Milan, 3 consecutive CL finals - at a time when Seria A was the strongest league in the world. Milan’s domestic dominance more or less ended when he vacated that job. But yeah 4 league titles and 3 consecutive CL finals was pure luck and it was shocking that he received nice press coverage for such a paltry achievement.

1 league title and 1 copa Italia with Roma. Only their 3rd league title ever and their first major trophy in about 10 years at that time. Lost the league the following year by a single point. Roma haven’t won the league since. Im guessing the two years where they mixed it with him as coach was again, pure luck.

Joined Real Madrid and won the league title around 96 or 97 and left after one year. Returned to Madrid in 2006 when Real were going through an unusually long barren spell, won the league again and left again. But I’m sure Capello ending that barren spell and winning two titles in 2 seasons there was once again, luck. And he didn’t get “positive press” at Madrid either because they disliked his defensive approach so even that’s well wide of the mark.

Now let’s compare. Paul Le Guen - 3 league titles with Lyon in a league out with the big 4, and more or less nothing again after that. Well yeah, the similarities are striking. There’s a reason you were taking a slagging in that “managers who struck gold once” haha.
 
Ferguson didnt get Le Guen the sack but it probably did set the club back. Le Guen was ill prepared for managing Rangers. He never looked comfortable in the job. Part of that can't have been helped by having Martin Bain calling the shots in the boardroom. He didnt get any of the manager's preferred targets and thats why we ended up with guys like Sebo. Le Guen was the wrong guy for Rangers. He had a great relationship with his DoF at Lyon and did very well with them but there was nothing to suggest that getting Le Guen on his own would continue that success.

But the manager was let down by players who didnt want to change. Some of what Le Guen wanted to do would have improved standards at Ibrox. The players would have been far more professional. A different foreign manager may well have done better (I was quite keen on Christophe Daum at the time). Advocaat had been successful with Rangers so a foreign manager can work at Ibrox. It needs a stronger personality than Paul Le Guen and stronger backing from the board of directors. Le Guen was always going to come off second best in any dispute between manager and player because I don't think that the board were really convinced by him and invested in him. When the monster munch gang decided that they wanted to do things their way then Le Guen had to accept that he had absolutely no authority in the dressing room. At that point it was only a matter of time.
 
Just look at his signings and how many were successes or went on to have good careers
Karl svenson
Libor sionko
Jeremy Clement
Lionel leitzi
Makhtar N'Diayé
Filip sebo
Lee Martin and Phil bardsley (loan)
But he did bring in the main man Sasa Papac
 
Get him the sack ? No. Le Guen walked, wanted to walk for months and basically took six months of his barely disguised contempt for the unprofessionalism of some of the squad and used it to scorch the earth and finally get out. I wanted PLG to succeed, defended him to the hilt but he was never going to last here because he simply didn't want to be here.

Ferguson was told to keep his quiet and the first thing he did was head to his car and phone several pals in the press to get the word out. Within an hour we had the likes of Peter Maguire and Billy Dodds polluting the airwaves with the tales of poor Barry being dumbfounded because he was completely innocent. Whether you sided with PLG or Ferguson, if a player is told to keep quiet on confidential club matters and blabs immediately to the press then you can simply no longer trust that player. For that act alone, Ferguson should've been out on his arse.

If Ferguson had done nothing wrong then why did he admit he was "shítting himself" heading through to Charlotte Square for Murray rip him a new one. He said himself he was convinced Murray would sell him because of his part in the whole mess.
 
Ferguson was told to keep his quiet and the first thing he did was head to his car and phone several pals in the press to get the word out. Within an hour we had the likes of Peter Maguire and Billy Dodds polluting the airwaves with the tales of poor Barry being dumbfounded because he was completely innocent. Whether you sided with PLG or Ferguson, if a player is told to keep quiet on confidential club matters and blabs immediately to the press then you can simply no longer trust that player. For that act alone, Ferguson should've been out on his arse.

If Ferguson had done nothing wrong then why did he admit he was "shítting himself" heading through to Charlotte Square for Murray rip him a new one. He said himself he was convinced Murray would sell him because of his part in the whole mess.

It’s the primary reason I don’t ever really want to see Barry at Rangers in any capacity again; which is a horrible thing to have to say about a once great leader who won an awful lot here. He’s just can’t seem to stay in his lane. Another thing I will say is, Le Guen never really speaks of his time at Rangers, speaks ill of the club or shows us any disrespect in general in spite of the obvious damage that short stint did to his reputation as a manager.

In contrast, Barry spent years whinging about Le Guen and that ill fated 6 month period. It’s all about respect, Barry doesn’t have much, he’s demonstrated this numerous times. Even his “putting out the bibs and cones” remark regarding JJ’s role at the club showed the complete lack of respect he has for other staff, and at times, the club in general.
 
Stiil remembers seeing the Sahrah run pics, and it was like "How class is it, our manager looks after himself." Then it quickly became he was a narcissistic weirdo with garbage backroom staff.

Landreau/Mandanda/Clerc/Elmandner/Govou... he talked a good game but absolutely no chance were players like that signing for us at the time.
 
As a side point, Le Guen’s subsequent career shows he really wasn’t that good and Lyon was pretty much everything falling in place at the right time.
 
Lol if PLG could have any claim to anything it would be that.

I remember there being a big thing about 'landing him as it were. Think most of us seen it as a huge statement of intent.

Can't remember who was all linked at the time though, but I don't think any of those names were in the fray lol.

None of them were in the fray, but Le Guen was led to believe they were and he'd have approximately £18-20 million to spend. (He also wanted to sign Darcheville, who instead arrived the following summer.) Elmander was another player he was looking to bring in.
 
Elmander was the only one there was anything really concrete about iirc.

Govou, Coupet etc mostly wild speculation on here and in the media.
 
Another thing I will say is, Le Guen never really speaks of his time at Rangers, speaks ill of the club or shows us any disrespect in general in spite of the obvious damage that short stint did to his reputation as a manager.
This is an insane take

How ridiculous would PLG look talking about the club after the absolute shit fest he served up

I don't get the mental gymnastics people employ to bend over backwards to absolve PLG of any blame for the rip roaring cnut he made of everything

Of course he doesn't speak badly of the club, he would look like a petty, deluded nutcase to do so

PLG obviously realises that and that it us best to sneak off with his tail between his legs and never speak of it again.

The fact some rangers fan still have PLG on an untouchable pedestal is mind boggling

The buck stops with the manager - unless that man is an incompetent, cowardly Frenchman apparently.
 
This is an insane take

How ridiculous would PLG look talking about the club after the absolute shit fest he served up

I don't get the mental gymnastics people employ to bend over backwards to absolve PLG of any blame for the rip roaring cnut he made of everything

Of course he doesn't speak badly of the club, he would look like a petty, deluded nutcase to do so

PLG obviously realises that and that it us best to sneak off with his tail between his legs and never speak of it again.

The fact some rangers fan still have PLG on an untouchable pedestal is mind boggling

The buck stops with the manager - unless that man is an incompetent, cowardly Frenchman apparently.
Speak for yourself mate. I’m not sure you actually read my post properly because at no point did I absolve Le Guen of any of the blame, he could have seen out his contract and I’m quite sure we’d have never won anything. I was saying that in spite of Le Guen’s failings, Ferguson’s conduct was a bit of a disgrace.

With regards to him having no scope to complain, that seems like a insane take given our then chairman bullshitted him about transfers, add to that he ended up stuck with a core group of players who huffed and puffed about having to adjust their culture a because they clearly weren’t dedicated enough to the cause for that. So taking all that into account I’d say he left with plenty of justification for complaining about his time here. But maybe he’s got too much respect and a bit of dignity.
 
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