Diego Maradona has died

Here's a good example, from tennis, of why it's impossible to compare across eras. No-one would argue Fred Perry isn't one of the all time tennis greats; 10 majors, world number 1, 4 Davis Cups. Here's a highlights clip from the 1934 Wimbledon final. Bear in mind this is actual in-game play, not warm up:

 
Here's a good example, from tennis, of why it's impossible to compare across eras. No-one would argue Fred Perry isn't one of the all time tennis greats; 10 majors, world number 1, 4 Davis Cups. Here's a highlights clip from the 1934 Wimbledon final. Bear in mind this is actual in-game play, not warm up:


Athletes in every track and field event are running quicker, throwing further, jumping longer. Any sportsmen in 100 years time should be better than anyone nowadays. It's the same with football - an average player like Barker would probably be Balon D'or winner if you sent him back in time.
 
Here's a good example, from tennis, of why it's impossible to compare across eras. No-one would argue Fred Perry isn't one of the all time tennis greats; 10 majors, world number 1, 4 Davis Cups. Here's a highlights clip from the 1934 Wimbledon final. Bear in mind this is actual in-game play, not warm up:

He is definitely the GOAT of the classic polo shirt.
 
Messi is just another hyper-competitive elite athlete, engineered by scientists and experts from an early age to dominate football. He's also remarkably dull. Nothing interests or excites me about him at all. He's also probably the better player. Maradona, on the other hand, was enigmatic, interesting and unpredictable.

No one from football post-00s will probably ever be remembered as fondly as anyone before that time.

I'd maybe suggest another sport pal.

Here's a good example, from tennis, of why it's impossible to compare across eras. No-one would argue Fred Perry isn't one of the all time tennis greats; 10 majors, world number 1, 4 Davis Cups. Here's a highlights clip from the 1934 Wimbledon final. Bear in mind this is actual in-game play, not warm up:


Another good point.


1958 World Cup Final - genuinely seen a better standard at junior level.
 
Not entirely sure you've understood the context of the post.

Pele was the greatest of his era.
Maradona the greatest of his.
Messi the greatest of this.

Going back far enough - ie. Pele, or in your example Wimbledon. The standard looks terrible. But in their day they were the top players.

I think Sir Alex mentioned it before that great players would be great players in any era. I think that's probably a fair summation.

Regarding athletics, I'm pretty sure the 100m in 1920 was 10.5 seconds...that would be seen as an extremely slow time for top sprinters of today.
 
Pele was the greatest of his era.
Maradona the greatest of his.
Messi the greatest of this.

Regarding athletics, I'm pretty sure the 100m in 1920 was 10.5 seconds...that would be seen as an extremely slow time for top sprinters of today.

Big Sadiq ran 100m sub 9 seconds on his Rangers debut
 
I don't think anyone would argue that without Maradona, Napoli wouldn't have won Serie A. But as it has been pointed out, there's a weird romanticism for everyone to say he won it by himself. Extremely disrespectful towards him teammates for Napoli and Argentina.

If you want to talk about a team being dragged up a level though...

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Obviously Barca had a golden generation with Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol etc. But Messi was the crown jewel in that an without him I doubt they would've won as much - especially when Ronaldo was doing the business for Real Madrid in the same period.
This really just demonstrates why football before the Messi era was much better as a sport.

It was far more egalitarian, it was much more competitive and it was anchored in local communities with far more meaning to ordinary people who watched it.

The trophies were spread around more and local teams made far more sense culturally to those who watched them and opportunities were far better distributed.

Now the sport is just a global entity gobbling up the dreams of supporters into a money-making machine that spits out outcomes determined by a loaded dice.
Messi despite his greatness is merely the poster boy for this diminishment of a once truly marvellous sport.
 
Pele was the greatest of his era.
Maradona the greatest of his.
Messi the greatest of this.

Going back far enough - ie. Pele, or in your example Wimbledon. The standard looks terrible. But in their day they were the top players.

I think Sir Alex mentioned it before that great players would be great players in any era. I think that's probably a fair summation.

Regarding athletics, I'm pretty sure the 100m in 1920 was 10.5 seconds...that would be seen as an extremely slow time for top sprinters of today.

Can't argue with any of that - that's why I find the conversation so dull!

I do think that the nature of modern sports makes them much duller characters. A guy like Maradona will never exist again in football, and I think that's both really sad and an indication of how football is just become another vehicle for late-stage capitalism to run roughshod over a once working class sport. The conditions that led to guys like Maradona becoming the greatest ever simply won't exist again in sport.

I seriously dunno how someone can love Messi or Ronaldo. I think you can love what they do, but not them.
 
Can't argue with any of that - that's why I find the conversation so dull!

I do think that the nature of modern sports makes them much duller characters. A guy like Maradona will never exist again in football, and I think that's both really sad and an indication of how football is just become another vehicle for late-stage capitalism to run roughshod over a once working class sport. The conditions that led to guys like Maradona becoming the greatest ever simply won't exist again in sport.

I seriously dunno how someone can love Messi or Ronaldo. I think you can love what they do, but not them.

I'd agree with most of that tbh. See even pre/post match interviews, they're an utter waste of time. 99% of the time it's just bog standard scripted answers that have been drummed into players by the media teams. Basically nothing answers.

People have always loved the characters in the game...guys like Maradona, Gazza etc.
 
Can't argue with any of that - that's why I find the conversation so dull!

I do think that the nature of modern sports makes them much duller characters. A guy like Maradona will never exist again in football, and I think that's both really sad and an indication of how football is just become another vehicle for late-stage capitalism to run roughshod over a once working class sport. The conditions that led to guys like Maradona becoming the greatest ever simply won't exist again in sport.

I seriously dunno how someone can love Messi or Ronaldo. I think you can love what they do, but not them.
Agree. It is the same in most other sports with F1 being another glaring example. I'm not going to knock Lewis Hamilton's ability and success but the guy is a total bore and a complete roaster.

Compare and contrast his personality with the likes of Senna chatting up a blonde TV presenter live on air and ending up with her as his bird :cool: .

Rugby actually is one sport that seems less affected and they still seem to be the same sort of blokes playing that always did (both Union or League).
 
Pele was the greatest of his era.
Maradona the greatest of his.
Messi the greatest of this.

Going back far enough - ie. Pele, or in your example Wimbledon. The standard looks terrible. But in their day they were the top players.

I think Sir Alex mentioned it before that great players would be great players in any era. I think that's probably a fair summation.

Regarding athletics, I'm pretty sure the 100m in 1920 was 10.5 seconds...that would be seen as an extremely slow time for top sprinters of today.
Agree with your point regarding tennis, but the 10.5, in fact I'm sure it was 10.4 seconds for 100 metres is extremely competitive. Running in canvas shoes with spikes on a cinder track which could be badly effected by rain easily accounts for a few 10ths of a second. I've no issue with current football generally being superior.
 
You could argue that the Champions League money and TV revenues made Barcelona and Resl Madrid the richest clubs in Europe and therefore they can attract the best players and therefore have went on to win the most trophies.
IMO they would have dominated with or without Messi/Ronaldo
We will see how good they are after Covid
 
What's ludicrous is that people expect the best players in the world to play for inferior sides in order to prove themselves :-D
 
In my experience, el Diego is the greatest, no question. He is a unique talent and legend. He brought brilliance every time he played, whether Boca, Napoli or Argentina.
 
In my experience, el Diego is the greatest, no question. He is a unique talent and legend. He brought brilliance every time he played, whether Boca, Napoli or Argentina.
I’d be stunned if you saw him every time he played unless you moved around Argentina and Italy and attended all the games.
 
I'd agree with most of that tbh. See even pre/post match interviews, they're an utter waste of time. 99% of the time it's just bog standard scripted answers that have been drummed into players by the media teams. Basically nothing answers.

People have always loved the characters in the game...guys like Maradona, Gazza etc.
I completely agree with your first paragraph, it drives me nuts to the point I never listen to any interview with a top level player or manager, even ours; just scripted, lawyer-approved soundbites.
 
In my experience, el Diego is the greatest, no question. He is a unique talent and legend. He brought brilliance every time he played, whether Boca, Napoli or Argentina.
More romanticised nonsense; like every other player in the history of the game, including Pele, Messi, Zidane, whoever; he did not bring brilliance every time he played.
 
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