Ditching the width

Loyaljock

Active Member
#1
If we are failing to play around teams, can we adopt a brute force approach and play through them? Ditch Candies and Kent on wings, use the full backs to deliver from deep. Have two in centre mid with all out front three of Laff, Defoe, Morelos. Could this will be in SGs thinking?

Back three - Worral, Katic, Goldson
Wingbacks - Barasic & Tav
Holding - Kamara or Jack & Davis or Arfield
Front three - Laff, Defoe, Morelos

We need a change of system or a plan b with substance. Our default system works ok when up against diddy teams or teams that don’t park the bus with space I’m behind. Perhaps a totally new approach needed for likes of Aberdeen/Kilmarnock?

Or should I get my coat and head back to playing Champ Man? :)

WATP
 

MearnsUnionist

Well-Known Member
#2
I'm amazed at the amount of posters who want to play 3 central defenders against heavily defensive teams who only play one up.

If we play a back 4 our 2 full backs are well advanced.

With 3-5-2 we have 3 central defenders not contributing to our attacking play.
 

Jjbscotty

Well-Known Member
#3
I'm amazed at the amount of posters who want to play 3 central defenders against heavily defensive teams who only play one up.

If we play a back 4 our 2 full backs are well advanced.

With 3-5-2 we have 3 central defenders not contributing to our attacking play.
Katic can score from set plays and we will have 2 centre forwards on the pitch. The 4-3-3 is not working.
 

jaws73

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
#6
Don't think formation is the problem.

The players' decision making up front isn't all it could be and when a correct decision is to the fore the quality of execution is often found wanting. Sort those two things out and it would make a massive difference. The players need to deliver it on a more consistent basis and they have the ability to do it. However they will only deliver that if they can handle the pressure that comes with the crucial games.

It will be interesting to see what difference the summer recruitment will make but in the meantime we have to hope results improve. It wouldn't surprise me to see us pick up the wins we need in the short term (the current gap at the top meaning the pressure is off off to a degree). However if we do cut the gap to put us right in the frame again that is the time we will likely falter one more.
 

JW1988

Well-Known Member
#7
Boyd and Jones already made it clear that the lack of width against them cost us as it played right into their hands
 
#8
Would like to see a narrow 3 with advanced cm something like this

Shagger
Tav worrall goldson barasic
Kamara jack
Kent
Morelos defoe lafferty(or grezda,arfield,candeais etc)

Think having Defoe and Morelos on the same pitch would make it impossible for other teams to keep on top of them both also Kent supplying them as opposed to arfield would be positive especially with a solid base of jack and kamara Behind him
 

Recoba

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
#9
I understand what you are trying to say op, it sounds easy to just hammer the middle but if you don't have technical, cute players who can open up a defence it will just be more of the same im afraid.

Right now though i feel any change of formation is worth a try as its that dire and dreadful to watch the same movie over and over and over again.
 

Macca

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
#10
We don't really play with width though. Our wingers rarely get in behind defences to receive passes from the centre of midfield and get balls across the box.
 

georgeclooney

Well-Known Member
#11
Lack of width in the final 3rd plays right into the hands of the packed defence , it narrows the pitch and they stand side by side shutting down any spaces.
If you stretch the defence by staying wide and have movement in the box spaces will appear for attacking midfielders to utilise.
I would like Kent to stay wide more as we have enough passes played square and backwards and tend to only go forward on the right with Tavernier and Candeais.
 

Macca

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
#12
Lack of width in the final 3rd plays right into the hands of the packed defence , it narrows the pitch and they stand side by side shutting down any spaces.
If you stretch the defence by staying wide and have movement in the box spaces will appear for attacking midfielders to utilise.
I would like Kent to stay wide more as we have enough passes played square and backwards and tend to only go forward on the right with Tavernier and Candeais.
Agreed mate, not the best comparison to make but 7 out of 10 of Man City's goals come from a ball in behind and a square ball across the box or a cut back
 

Saltire

Active Member
#13
I'm amazed at the amount of posters who want to play 3 central defenders against heavily defensive teams who only play one up.

If we play a back 4 our 2 full backs are well advanced.

With 3-5-2 we have 3 central defenders not contributing to our attacking play.
The answer to this is 4-1-4-1. The holding mid, McCrorie, can drop into a back 3 when required and also contribute in an attacking sense.
 
#14
The right hand side it's not the width it's just the fact we can't cross the ball.

Left hand side we let Kent come inside into our 3 CMS also there 3. So we now have 7 players plus a striker and 4 defenders.

Exactly crowded
 

Commentator

Well-Known Member
#15
Would just reduce the spaces to attack between the defenders.
We need to be much, much quicker at what we do and exploit the spaces before they're closed.
 

omegaman

Well-Known Member
#16
Would just reduce the spaces to attack between the defenders.
We need to be much, much quicker at what we do and exploit the spaces before they're closed.
When we do it well, we do it very well, but we just don’t seem to have the quality to play with that tempo consistently.

In order to do so, we need better players middle to front.

If we can’t afford them - and if Jones is indicative of the level of player we think fits the bill then I have to say I’m worried - we should scrap the 4-3-3 entirely and go with something completely different.
 

Bigbluebear

Well-Known Member
#17
Apart from the back 3 this is what we did when we went two down on tues.

It didnt work, and wont work. Way easier to defend a ball you are facing than it to attack it with your back to goal.

We need to draw these sides out and get their defenders facing their own goal. Leads to us able to get in front of them and also more likely to make a mistake or a poor clearance.

If you get a ref like Clancy or McLean who slow the game down every time the ball is out of play then you have virtually no chance of doing this regularly.

We need to find a way of drawing teams out 10-15 yards to get in behind.

Walter used a couple of tactics. One was McCulloch and Lafferty on the left, long ball to them for Novo or Miller to get onto.

He also deliberately gave up possession and countered. Im related to an ex spl midfielder who played numerous games against us in Walters second spell, he said he got more time on the ball against us than any other team in the league, however barely ever got a result.

We dont have good enough players dominate possession against a well drilled, physical defence and get the win at the moment.
 

Commentator

Well-Known Member
#18
When we do it well, we do it very well, but we just don’t seem to have the quality to play with that tempo consistently.

In order to do so, we need better players middle to front.

If we can’t afford them - and if Jones is indicative of the level of player we think fits the bill then I have to say I’m worried - we should scrap the 4-3-3 entirely and go with something completely different.
I believe Gerrard is trying to transition us to being much slicker but he's hamstrung by a) our players mindset b) their skill c) scottish hoofba' d) corrupt officials and authorities e) our compliant board and f) the mhedia. All combine to produce the current environment he's trying to do it in.
I don't know how it's solved, players like Barisic and Grezda have the skills but not the bottle for what refs condone. He's in a difficult place, does he stick or twist?
 

omegaman

Well-Known Member
#19
I believe Gerrard is trying to transition us to being much slicker but he's hamstrung by a) our players mindset b) their skill c) scottish hoofba' d) corrupt officials and authorities e) our compliant board and f) the mhedia. All combine to produce the current environment he's trying to do it in.
I don't know how it's solved, players like Barisic and Grezda have the skills but not the bottle for what refs condone. He's in a difficult place, does he stick or twist?
Thing is, it was the same with Warburton to some extent, although admittedly without any defensive nous whatsoever, i.e. 4-3-3 can work if you have really top quality players middle to front who have the talent and ability to unlock stubborn defences.

If the board are unable to deliver that, we should look at a different approach.

Thing is, can Gerrard do that, or is he another like Warburton who just can’t see past 4-3-3?

If he can’t adapt, I fear he’s going to continue to struggle.
 
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