Do we expect too much too quick

I think it's vital to focus on us and not get too fixated on catching Celtic (or Aberdeen for that matter). We need look our team in isolation and say "have we made progess?". If we keep firing every manger who doesn't challenge Celtic for the title at the first time of asking then we'll never get anywhere. I've said it before on this forum but finishing 20 points being Celtic this season will be seen as a failure but in reality it's a 19 point swing on last season and has to be seen as progress. I guess it's up to the individual how much progress is expected.

Personally I think we have improved on last season. However I think people are justified in questioning whether the progress made is significant enough given the backing the manager has received.
 
I'm not sure it's about expecting too much, I think the anger is more to do with the type of games being lost.

People say Pedro hasn't won any big games, but what I think they really mean by that is that he hasn't won any emotional games. The manner of defeat in the Celtic games, losing to Aberdeen at home while the sheep fans celebrate, our first European game in years, and getting put out of a cup we should have made the final of. Losing these types of games would get the fans on the back of any manager, regardless of prior record, and it was always going to be so much harder for someone just coming in. His apparently poor spending has only hindered him further.

If he'd managed to win any one of the games I'd stated above, regardless of where we are in the league or performances against other teams, I think that emotionally the support would be behind him a bit more.
 
jimmybluebeak said:
do we as a support demand too much,we all knew it was going to be a long road back to the very top,I for one think we have improved from Warburtons team,on Sunday we were caught woefully short in the physical battle,it will take time or a good few million quid but we will get there
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We are impatient fans, I will give you that. But things won't improve under this manager.
 
We need to get perspective. We should be beating Motherwell. Expecting to beat a team put together for a fraction of ours is not asking too much.
It wasn't Celtic who beat us.
Fans have every right to be angry and to criticise the players and management
 
I don't particularly expect to be winning the league or competing with Celtic.

I absolutely do expect to beat Motherwell, just like I expect us to be able to beat a pish Thistle side and a pish Hearts side at Ibrox.

I really don't get how people can continue to trot out the "long road back" stuff every time we have a shocker of a result.

I an desperate for Pedro to do well but the fact is we are massively underachieving and continue to have woeful results against diddy teams assembled on a fraction of the budget we paid for our two mexican players.
 
We are buying players, mostof them having never won a trophy , throwing them together and expecting them to go on long unbeaten runs. They are by and large replicating exactly the same inconsistent performances that that they strung together at previous clubs.
 
I expect to beat the likes of Progres in a European competition and Motherwell in a cup semi final.

I expect our players to be fired up for games, switched on - ready...

I also expect our home record to be better than what it’s been.

I also expect Rangers to win at least three games on the bounce.

Is that too much to ask for?
 
Northampton Lodger said:
We are buying players, mostof them having never won a trophy , throwing them together and expecting them to go on long unbeaten runs. They are by and large replicating exactly the same inconsistent performances that that they strung together at previous clubs.
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Can we afford to buy players who have won trophies? I’d imagine they come at a premium.

I do agree that we need players who know how to win and are used to it, but how do we manage to acquire these players.
 
I think fans rightly expect to be a comfortable second. ST prices in the League reflect that objective so performances should be measured against it too. As it stands, we are not where we should be despite a lot of money being spent and fans are upset and rightly so IMO. If you add the underlying fears that money is being wasted following what we have been through then it's obvious why things are reaching boiling point. Not winning 3 games in a row is not good enough during a 10 month period. No amount of patience pleas and long-winded analogies is going to appease a fiercely loyal support. It's a bit like we do our bit, over to you Pedro and your team.
 
I think that after spending £10m then we should be able to be able to beat, Progres, Motherwell and be able to win more than two game in a row.

We are not that far behind bheasts and a good manager would show that, he spent poorly and played long ball football vs Motherwell. Even the St J game was brutal to watch.

He's now thrown the players under the bus. It's over.
 
I expect to beat Motherwell in a league cup semi final, with the chance of a final.

The choice pre match was win and win I seem to recall.
 
No

People are pissed off because we can't beat the likes of Motherwell, Partick, Progress and Hibs

That's not asking too much

It is only a weak defence used to say "aye but Celtic spend millions we canny compete"

Most people know and are over it for now all people want is the best Rangers we can be and this isn't it
 
why should it take us millions to compete, when the likes of Aberdeen / hibs / hearts / st johnstone can do it on a shoestring?

we have completely wasted millions of pounds on duds yet again. we cant win 3 games in a row, and Pedro has failed to win 11 of his 25 games

we have also been utterly embarrassed in the 7 defeats he has lead us too

so, the answer to the OP, from me would be a resounding no


we appointed the wrong man, its as clear as day.
 
No. We are Rangers and expect better. Miller, Niko, Windass, Dalcio, Herrera and Pena should not be here. I have doubts if Cardoso can cope with the physical side. Surely we can do better than Nemane on loan ? We could have bought Moult, Walker and McLean with the money spent on Pena.
Transfers are a gamble but it's noticeable that Jack is our best player and he was probably signed up prior to Pedro's arrival.
 
Those demands and expectations, regardless of the perception of being unrealistic are what makes us Rangers. That's why some players will just never make it with us, the pressure is constant and standards immovably high. We won't change as a fan base.
 
CaptainCourageous said:
I expect to beat the likes of Progres in a European competition and Motherwell in a cup semi final.

I expect our players to be fired up for games, switched on - ready...

I also expect our home record to be better than what it’s been.

I also expect Rangers to win at least three games on the bounce.

Is that too much to ask for?
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Maybe you're not asking too much, more you're expectations are not realistic. You know where we are, and you know where we've been the last five years.

Mistakes were made as soon as we were dumped in the bottom league, and mistakes continued to be made as we rose up through the leagues.

We had the opportunity to build a team from scratch over a four year period that could compete in the top league. We never did that.

Don't blame Pedro for the mess we were, and the missed opportunities.
 
High expectations are fine and part of what supporting Rangers is about. What I think is missing is an understanding that brand new teams are notoriously inconsistent, and a bit of context.

I expected to beat Motherwell. When we didn't, I put it down to inconsistency. Others put it down to the manager being a loser and his players being duds.

Ultimately the support is divided between people who can't see any light at the end of the tunnel and people who've seen those chinks of light that suggest we shouldn't give up just yet. Nobody is wrong and nobody is right, it's largely subjective. Some go too far and say we're going backwards or worse than ever, which is clearly untrue. And maybe some are overly optimistic.
 
Proper refereeing by Beaton and McLean would in all likelihood have seen different outcomes in two big games which wouldve helped Bears and Pedro no end.

Its no wonder Pedro got sent to the stand ! Bad officiating, pure and simple.
 
People keep saying this but I've actually been surprised by the patience/apathy/compassion/indifference of some of our fans.

The amount of fans defending Progres (on here anyway) was very surprising.

Now you've got a lot of people saying he needs 2 or 3 transfer windows. Don't remember the same being said for PLG. Likewise, signings are given a year minimum (for Pena, read MOH - lots of excuses/patience). Don't remember the same being afforded to the likes of Bernard and Jeffers (and they had genuine pedigree).

I think it's too easy to say things like the OP. In reality, and probably appropriated through different emotions but all down to one thing - demotion, the patience of fans has actually dramatically increased. IMO anyway.
 
Here’s where he falls down for me:

After coming in early last season and suffering the worst Old Firm defeat in 60 years, he’s backed lavishly by the board in the summer yet succumbs to the most embarrassing reverse in our history game 1.

He needed to hit the ground running yet fell flat on his face.

So the alarm bells are ringing already.

Then we entertain Hibs for our first home start in the league and, diabolical refereeing aside, we lose.

Next up it’s managerless Hearts, also at Ibrox.

We’re hoping to see a big response to the injustice of the previous week, but we don’t get it.

Alarm bells are really ringing for me now.

A couple of wins, we begin to hope, but then come the mighty Thistle at Firhill and we drop more points.

A couple of wins, then Celtic roll around. We’re now almost expecting a weak surrender and that’s exactly what we get.

A couple of wins, then it’s Motherwell, a side we’ve already beaten, for a place in the first cup final of the season, but again, it’s too big an ask.

And it’s been half a year of this now, with circa £8m having been spent in between.

It can’t go on.

He needs to seriously step it up in the games that matter or he’s out.
 
If you look at Caixinha’s managerial career he is actually punching above his weight in terms of win %.

53% with Rangers and prior to joining us it was around 43%.
 
Billiericky said:
Maybe you're not asking too much, more you're expectations are not realistic. You know where we are, and you know where we've been the last five years.

Mistakes were made as soon as we were dumped in the bottom league, and mistakes continued to be made as we rose up through the leagues.

We had the opportunity to build a team from scratch over a four year period that could compete in the top league. We never did that.

Don't blame Pedro for the mess we were, and the missed opportunities.
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spot on mate we are improving although slowly we will get there
no surrender
 
I expect us to beat a team from Luxembourg FFS

I also expect to beat Motherwell in a semi final at Hampden.
 
No, don't agree. We're not getting the best out of anyone at the moment. Board, manager or players. A mass majority of the fans are not expecting to be challenging for the title but we're struggling against most teams we've come up against. We've really struggled against teams we really shouldn't be and that isn't because of a rebuilding process, it's simply because the management and players haven't been good enough. Losing against Celtic is never OK, however, we can understand that they simply have better players having spent a shit load more cash. We've spent more than just about everyone else and regardless of the mess Warburton left Pedro has had long enough to build a decent team to be doing better in Scotland.

We've lost 2 - 0 against amateur team from Luxembourg in the Europa League. We've been beaten by Hibs, drawn against Partick and just been put out of the League Cup by Motherwell. Even in the games we've won we've only been convincing in a couple of them.

We look like a team that almost anyone in the Premiership can take on. In fact, every club will be coming to play Rangers looking for points or at least a point. Not damage limitation and that is simply not good considering what we have spent.

I think the fans who are pissed off have a right to be. This whole excuse of constantly asking for time just isn't going to wash for much longer.
 
It's our expectations that make Rangers the club that it is. If we settle for mediocrity, the board will deliver it and take their foot off the pedal.

It's why the likes of Aberdeen will never win the league, because their fans aren't demanding it.
 
crmpicco said:
We are impatient fans, I will give you that. But things won't improve under this manager.
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i totally disagree wwe are impatient fans... if so we would have seen massive protests against murray, mcleish at times and moreso under ally... pretty much any protest there was the numbers were in the vast minority.
 
Why do we constantly see these threads making excuses? It was the same last season with Warburton

We are RANGERS.

I’ll say that again we are RANGERS. We dont just expect, we demand better.

Its shit or get aff the pot for this board.
 
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i cant see it getting much better to be honest we dont have a leader and cant see us winning many big games.
 
foreverblue56 said:
I think a lot of our support forget where we have been
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I think most of us remember where we have been.
But six years down the line just how much have we spent on players who should never have kicked a ball for us?
All the way back to McCoist who should have built a team with youngsters with a few experienced players around them.
We have wasted so much over the years.
 
I think we definitely expect too much but that’s part of who we are. I don’t think the demands should change but perhaps a little more realism would be wise.

What I definitely think is, although tour budget is strongly second in the country, we don’t have that in-built absolute right to win 90% of game any more which I attribute to not just ability but significantly mentality too.

We always talk about a gap with the poets. Maybe we should also talk about the gap between Rangers and the rest. Rangers fans would (quietly) accept, on the very short term, a small gap between us and them. But what we need to realise is that there isn’t that historical gap between us and the rest - we are currently one of the best of the rest but they all see us as totally beatable on their day. That’s a product of us having to truly rebuild.

We’ve all watched enough football to know that money doesn’t instantly transfer to a league position. If it was we could predict the league table before the season starts.
 
I don’t expect miracles but I do expect us to beat unknow part timers in Europe and to at least compete with fecking Motherwell in a cup semi.
 
No purely because of the standard of this league. Some of these teams are horrific and I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect us to not be dropping points to those teams and for us to be a comfortable 2nd given the outlay.
 
I think the new players will only truely settle into it, once 2 rounds of fixtures had been played.
Then they will have 10+ home games and played every away venue.
I know we expect them to turn up and play at their best straight away, but that doesn't happen and in time I think the core of this squad has what it takes to get 2nd and chase the poets.
Then again, I'm an optimist and I am hoping for a draw for the sheep tomorrow and a win for US, and then it will be game on!!
 
jimmybluebeak said:
do we as a support demand too much,we all knew it was going to be a long road back to the very top,I for one think we have improved from Warburtons team,on Sunday we were caught woefully short in the physical battle,it will take time or a good few million quid but we will get there
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Yes we probably do. however every fan of every club should demand better, brechin fans should demand promotion, real fans should demand 5 in row.
to some extent we have improved on last year, but we should be doing more and better,
Its easy to blame the refs for some of what has went on, under Smith or Wallace the team would have shown character to deal with the situation and given a better performance
you don't always have to spend millions to get decent players
 
jimmybluebeak said:
do we as a support demand too much,we all knew it was going to be a long road back to the very top,I for one think we have improved from Warburtons team,on Sunday we were caught woefully short in the physical battle,it will take time or a good few million quid but we will get there
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I actually think we are far worse than Warburtons team. Warburtons team put Celtic out of cup competition playing a decent style of football. This team has suffered our biggest defeat to Celtic and don't appear to be anywhere near challenging them and that's after a good few million has been invested in playing staff.
 
Yes we do.

We want to win everything and we want to do it tomorrow. That, however, is both the biggest strength of our club and our biggest weakness.

People need to understand that we have to make steady progress and bad results are going to happen, regardless of who the manager is.

The pain will all be worth it though when we do eventually win 55.
 
I don't expect us to be challenging Celtic for the title, but given we have by far the 2nd highest budget in the league, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect us to beat Motherwell in a semi final, a Motherwell side ironically enough who have a new manager and a host of new players.

I also expect us to be able to win 3 games on the spin and to be able to beat newly promoted sides, manager less sides, teams like Partick Thistle, I expect us to win games comfortably and not struggle in the vast majority of games we play. I would also hope that some time soon there will come a time that we might actually lay a glove on Celtic and not roll over and be humiliated.

We will not achieve any of these things in the long run if Pedro remains our manager, it's as simple as that, where we are just now is as good as it will get under him.
 
Kylegib said:
I actually think we are far worse than Warburtons team. Warburtons team put Celtic out of cup competition playing a decent style of football. This team has suffered our biggest defeat to Celtic and don't appear to be anywhere near challenging them and that's after a good few million has been invested in playing staff.
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It's utter nonsense like this that I really struggle with.

We are a better team than anything Warburton put together and anyone who can't see that really shouldn't be listened to about football.
 
Kylegib said:
I actually think we are far worse than Warburtons team. Warburtons team put Celtic out of cup competition playing a decent style of football. This team has suffered our biggest defeat to Celtic and don't appear to be anywhere near challenging them and that's after a good few million has been invested in playing staff.
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Remember under Warburton getting humped 4-1 off Ian Cathro’s Hearts? You think we’re worse than that???
 
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