Do you feel more confident in Europe with Gerrard over Smith?

I thought we were by and large murder to watch in Europe under Walter,even against teams who were inferior to us it was usually a slog.SG has obviously taken on board the Liverpool mantra that you impose your own style on the games against all but the Very best teams where a bit of caution may be required
 
Yes and although we haven't came up against the top teams under Gerrard, I can't see him going ultra defensive as a regular tactic.

It became a grind watching Rangers in Europe at times under Walter.
 
Difficult one that.

I do think it’s more enjoyable under Gerrard as Walters teams were never exciting to watch in Europe but one thing the were was well drilled.

Gerrard I think particularly this year with the squad allows us to play different ways in different games in Europe allowing it to be be more exciting in certain games.

Hopefully we get to groups and qualify through them. Exciting times ahead
 
I think it’s a huge credit to Gerrard that given his short time in managing a big club, we can actually debate this point. I love Walter but can’t think there were many qualifiers I ever felt confident going into with him. He had the domestic side down to a fine art though which I guess is our bread and butter. Good post for thought OP.
 
Is it a fair comparison?
A bit like Morelos and European goals, him Vs Albertz for example. Just about level on goals but Albertz was scoring against a much higher calibre of competition
Smith in Europe I'd say was also up against a better class of opposition.
 
legalbeagle said:
Let’s chill out a little. Walter was usually managing us in the CL, and was up against some of the elite clubs in Europe in a lot of those games. Gerrard is doing a fantastic job but we are a long way off these comparisons.
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People are losing it here. I at least wish we’d wait to see how we get on against Legia before discussing such things. Also read a few times in the thread that Gerrard’s European experiences gives him an edge, so does he not have experience of playing league campaigns?

About 20 days ago the talk was that we’d barely progressed from last season. He’s doing a very good job at the minute, let’s settle down and wait until we’re out of August and won something before encouraging comparisons with a manager who was a trophy hoarder in his time here.
 
Gerrard played at the highest level in Europe regular and won it as a player. He knows how to do it in the modern game. Walter is the greatest ever Rangers manager. But I’d still say Stevie G
 
Amstel said:
Gerrard played at the highest level in Europe regular and won it as a player. He knows how to do it in the modern game. Walter is the greatest ever Rangers manager. But I’d still say Stevie G
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Tough one between Walter and Struth. In my opinion if European Football was a thing while Struth was manager he would’ve won us the European Cup. Struth became manager of Rangers when we had only won 5 League Titles and then went on to win us 18 League Titles, 10 Scottish Cups and 2 League Cups. Arguably one of the best managers of all time in British football.
 
To go out and beat a team on the same level or weaker than us I’d take Gerrard.

To prepare us to face a much stronger team I’d have Walter.

I’m fairness Gerrard is still a very small sample size and he hasn’t yet had the opportunity to take us into the CL against the very best
 
This is a great question. To me Walter Smith is neck and neck with Bill Struth as greatest ever manager of our club.

However most seasons his European record is terrible yet despite that if it wasnt for Marseille he could have won the first ever CL. Then a European Final when it was least expected.

I think the answer is yes, I feel more confident going into European games with Gerrard in charge than I did with Walter, with Walter you could get anything, am amazing run with fantastic results as underdogs then getting embarrassed by some nonetities.
 
We lost to some putrid teams under Smith, we underachieved nearly every season except a few. Under Gerrard I would say last year we over achieved and if we make the groups and a fist of it we will have overachieved again.
Add in that even in the group stage last season we tried to win the group playing attractive football.
 
Think you have to wait til we start playing more quality teams. So far it’s be great specially as we are building a new team. After we win the league and qualify for the big one then you can who’s done the best. Unless we go on and win this one , who knows.
 
Walter Smith was a specialist of Scottish Football. One of the greatest living Rangers men.

Apart from 2 seasons though, his record in European Football was awful.

The Gerrard style of play, intensity, having a go, has and will see us pull off some impressive results in Europe.

Walter most of the time set out not to lose in Europe, and when you do that, more often than not you do lose.

As for the answer to the question, if we were playing Barcelona tomorrow I'd want Walter in charge.

But as for going into a tie like Maribor or Legia, teams that are decent but we should not have to fear them, Gerrard all the way.
 
Amstel said:
Gerrard played at the highest level in Europe regular and won it as a player. He knows how to do it in the modern game. Walter is the greatest ever Rangers manager. But I’d still say Stevie G
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Walter is not the greatest ever Rangers manager.
Bill Struth is.

Struth's record is incredible if you factor in the war years which may actually have been when his powers were at their zenith, his ability to refocus his energies for so many seasons with such monumental consistency is unrivalled anywhere in football around the world.

Scottish football was also very strong in this period when we produced world-class/international class/professional players in quantities enough to maintain a strong competitive league structure whilst exporting hundreds of top players south of the border to bolster and often dominate English football clubs, all of whom shared in the amazing bounty.

Further, Struth operated in a far more level playing field where Rangers were restricted to paying the same wages as clubs like Motherwell, Airdrie, Cyde etc, yet Struth relentlessly put together championship winning team after team after team.
Struth put the word dominate into the English dictionary

During the thirties when Arsenal themselves became the English dominant side of the era, with legendary managers Herbert Chapman and Willie Allison, Struth took their all-conquering team on season after season, and usually made them his bitches.
These games were taken seriously and were the Champions league tussles of their day.
Somehow these uncomfortable facts escape the notice of English journalists most of whom never bother to uncover the brilliance of Struth, perhaps they find it convenient to ignore him as he would otherwise trash their claims about Chapman's status.

Had there been European Cups to play for back in Struth's day, he would surely have filled the Ibrox trophy room with them such was his determination to be the best.
Struth's legacy wasn't trophies, instead, it was an all-powerful football club who at his time of leaving was easily the most successful in the world with a reputation second to none and a massive support that broke all manner of global records.

Walter was a great manger and the most telling compliment I could ever give him, was that Mr Struth would have acclaimed him as a son.
 
They both have a completely different approach to how Rangers should play.

Gerrard is also heavily assisted with his team which includes some of the brightest minds in coaching (Beale & Co).

Whilst Walter took us to a European final and almost the champions league final, he also was at the helm of some embarassing defeats to teams with a fraction of our riches at the time in those qualifiers.
 
songsofglory said:
Not comparing managers legacy at our club in any way shape or form. Walter Smith is a Rangers hero and always will be.

But, in the qualifiers last season and this season, do you place more trust in Gerrard than Smith? Smith got it bang on a lot of the time in Europe, but we had some shockers too. In Gerrard so far in Europe we have always been a threat going forward and able to shut them out when necessary. Do you think Walter would have guided us to the groups last season and the Playoff this year?
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He got us to a European final in a squad that had kirk broadfoot in it
 
Danger Zone said:
People are losing it here. I at least wish we’d wait to see how we get on against Legia before discussing such things. Also read a few times in the thread that Gerrard’s European experiences gives him an edge, so does he not have experience of playing league campaigns?

About 20 days ago the talk was that we’d barely progressed from last season. He’s doing a very good job at the minute, let’s settle down and wait until we’re out of August and won something before encouraging comparisons with a manager who was a trophy hoarder in his time here.
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I was considering this before posting the thread that we should wait and see but I think the question was more about excitement and confidence going in to matches, rather than knowing that we were going to be backs to the wall.
 
academical said:
Too many replies disregarding the OP’s request to focus on the specific thing he asked about.

To this outsider, the answer is an emphatic yes (go back and read what the question was).

Wasn’t the main reason Advocaat replaced Smith because of Walter’s European failings (one season excepted)? And wasn’t it exactly the same in his second spell? You never knew how Rangers would perform in Europe under Smith; under Gerrard it feels like you have the potential to win every game.
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Right now Stevie G, but it's a difficult question to answer, due to managerial years, standard of opposition etc.

Definitely different styles of management, maybe it'sthe change in modern football. It was always viewed to keep a clean sheet at home was the most important thing. It seems like going out and scoring away goals is viewed by managers as being more important now.

The Manchester run in 07/08 would probably have seen our present team score in Bremen & Florence. However, we probably would have conceded against these teams with the present squad.
 
Walter played for a place in the Champions League final. Only losing out to a latterly proven corrupt Marseille.

He also took us to Manchester.

Steven Gerrard has been a wonderful appointment and is steering our club back to our rightful position.
However, Steven is yet to win a trophy and I think he'd cringe at any comparison.
 
JimmyBuffetloyal said:
Walter played for a place in the Champions League final. Only losing out to a latterly proven corrupt Marseille.

He also took us to Manchester.

Steven Gerrard has been a wonderful appointment and is steering our club back to our rightful position.
However, Steven is yet to win a trophy and I think he'd cringe at any comparison.
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I wasn't comparing the managers in the sense that Gerrard was anywhere near the overall standard as Walter Smith. That would be ridiculous. What I would suggest though is that I feel more confident playing in Europe with Gerrard.
 
More confidence in Walter.

Controversial point, but some of the fans were to blame for 09/10 in Europe. A lot of pressure was being put on to not be boring and as a result we were leathered. No way if we were set up properly were we losing 4-1/4-1/2-0 to Sevilla, Unirea (ffs) and Stuttgart.

I think our performance a year later proves that, more open play was in the bin and we draw at Old Trafford. Kaunas is a bit different, I don't think we'd recovered from a 69 game season with that tour of Japan making us play everything at one time.
 
songsofglory said:
Not comparing managers legacy at our club in any way shape or form. Walter Smith is a Rangers hero and always will be.

But, in the qualifiers last season and this season, do you place more trust in Gerrard than Smith? Smith got it bang on a lot of the time in Europe, but we had some shockers too. In Gerrard so far in Europe we have always been a threat going forward and able to shut them out when necessary. Do you think Walter would have guided us to the groups last season and the Playoff this year?
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Walter has us competing in the champions league and took us to a European final, was also one game away from the inaugural champions league final.

Even asking this question is ridiculous.
 
songsofglory said:
I was considering this before posting the thread that we should wait and see but I think the question was more about excitement and confidence going in to matches, rather than knowing that we were going to be backs to the wall.
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I know mate I was referring more to the replies, I don’t think many really read your OP properly.
 
Calvinist said:
Walters performance in Europe is a mixed bag .

2 fantastic runs intermingled with rubbish . Gerrard has done very well with a team that by and large has underperformed for years .
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I think this team are far more attacking whereas under Walter our away performances were usually backs to the wall.
 
nithsdaleloyalist said:
Our last league winning wage bill was around 28m, last year we were 24m not a huge difference.
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Remove the dumplings from warburton/ pedro expeirence.
Still the figures you quote are 15% less - nearly 10 years later.
Look at the prices at the moment for players to then, its trebled.
In life they also say your costs double every ten years.
 
Square and compass said:
Remove the dumplings from warburton/ pedro expeirence.
Still the figures you quote are 15% less - nearly 10 years later.
Look at the prices at the moment for players to then, its trebled.
In life they also say your costs double every ten years.
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Walter was getting a turn out of absolute dross like Wylde and Broadfoot, it’s just modern myth by some that his second spell was full of world beaters on big money.
 
nithsdaleloyalist said:
Walter was getting a turn out of absolute dross like Wylde and Broadfoot, it’s just modern myth by some that his second spell was full of world beaters on big money.
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Yes, hendami wasnt expensive and weir for example.
Diferent times although not that long ago.
Walter did make mistakes like any manager does but more right than wrong was done which is the main thing.
 
songsofglory said:
I wasn't comparing the managers in the sense that Gerrard was anywhere near the overall standard as Walter Smith. That would be ridiculous. What I would suggest though is that I feel more confident playing in Europe with Gerrard.
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Used to hide behind the couch when playing away in europe.
It wasnt good a lot of the time.
But we were there and thats the main thing.
 
Square and compass said:
Yes, hendami wasnt expensive and weir for example.
Diferent times although not that long ago.
Walter did make mistakes like any manager does but more right than wrong was done which is the main thing.
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Waltzers greatest strength as our manager was he could pick out a poor player like the two I mentioned or plenty of others, Christian Daily for example and get them winning.

I will always believe that Walter would have won the league with us last season.
 
Essentially this question is do you feel more confident in the Europa League qualifiers - all 4 of them - than the champions league.

Ludicrous comparison and insulting to Smith. How confident I am in Europe depends on the quality of opposition relative to us.
 
wd1872 said:
Walter Smith was a specialist of Scottish Football. One of the greatest living Rangers men.

Apart from 2 seasons though, his record in European Football was awful.

The Gerrard style of play, intensity, having a go, has and will see us pull off some impressive results in Europe.

Walter most of the time set out not to lose in Europe, and when you do that, more often than not you do lose.

As for the answer to the question, if we were playing Barcelona tomorrow I'd want Walter in charge.

But as for going into a tie like Maribor or Legia, teams that are decent but we should not have to fear them, Gerrard all the way.
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Walter inherited everything from Souness and plenty dough.
SG has inherited pedros shit, a club with not a lot of money compared to then, 2012 problems hanging around still with ashley etc.
The pressure to stop 9 in a row with an established celtic team with plenty of money.
Its no easy task for Steven who likely set foot in Scotland a handful of times before getting the job.
Winning the league will pale everything we have done in my 52 years on this earth.
 
The game in Europe is played differently to how it is at home. Smith especially first time round wouldn't have had much experience of European football in terms of playing in it or working with managers who had plyed their trade their. Gerrard has played for years on the European stage and worked under guys like Houllier and Benitez who from reading his book left a big impression on him.

I feel under Gerrard in Europe especially the guys look so controlled on the ball and controlling the game they all know their jobs and realise how important possession is
 
nithsdaleloyalist said:
Walter has us competing in the champions league and took us to a European final, was also one game away from the inaugural champions league final.

Even asking this question is ridiculous.
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He also had some horrendous results though. He should obviously be admired as a great manager over all, but there was no doubt you went in to Euro games knowing that we were not going to go for it.
 
Unicorn said:
Essentially this question is do you feel more confident in the Europa League qualifiers - all 4 of them - than the champions league.

Ludicrous comparison and insulting to Smith. How confident I am in Europe depends on the quality of opposition relative to us.
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That's not the question but ok.

I think the question is pretty valid. We struggled in a lot of qualifiers against teams poorer than we have played the last couple of years. Even in group stages we got the odd win but more often than not it was a backs to the wall job, which was fine at times but sometimes I think Gerrards approach would have seen us do better.


As I keep saying, this isn't any sort of slander at Walter whatsoever.
 
Unicorn said:
Essentially this question is do you feel more confident in the Europa League qualifiers - all 4 of them - than the champions league.

Ludicrous comparison and insulting to Smith. How confident I am in Europe depends on the quality of opposition relative to us.
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Kaunus knocked us out of CL qualifiers 2 months after Manchester and of the 16 European games in Smiths remaining 2 seasons our only win was 1-0 at home to Bursaspor. In amongst that was the 4-1 stuffing at Ibrox by Unirea.

We also had a better team to begin with back then and Smith was always allowed to spend money. We spent about £20m after Kaunus put is out.
 
Not going to even try make this argument.

Walter had us in the UEFA Cup Final and was close enough to the Champions League, it’s not a question who I’d rather have.
 
bluenosebazza said:
Kaunus knocked us out of CL qualifiers 2 months after Manchester and of the 16 European games in Smiths remaining 2 seasons our only win was 1-0 at home to Bursaspor. In amongst that was the 4-1 stuffing at Ibrox by Unirea.

We also had a better team to begin with back then and Smith was always allowed to spend money. We spent about £20m after Kaunus put is out.
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What’s your point exactly? We also reached the last 32 of the Europea league and were unlucky not to go further. I can pick and choose games too like drawing at old Trafford or against a good Valencia team.
 
songsofglory said:
That's not the question but ok.

I think the question is pretty valid. We struggled in a lot of qualifiers against teams poorer than we have played the last couple of years. Even in group stages we got the odd win but more often than not it was a backs to the wall job, which was fine at times but sometimes I think Gerrards approach would have seen us do better.


As I keep saying, this isn't any sort of slander at Walter whatsoever.
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Gerrard has been here for a year and has only managed us in the Europa League. It’s a stupid comparison.
 
Unicorn said:
Gerrard has been here for a year and has only managed us in the Europa League. It’s a stupid comparison.
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It's more about tactics than anything else. Again FCM we would have sat back and hit on the counter, where as Gerrard believed they were there to be got at and we just went for it and cruised through. Against teams like that, and poorer teams, we would regularly play a very defensive tactic.
 
I'm almost certain Walter would have got us there, although i always thought we played as if we were the underdogs, defend first and play on the counter, with Gerrard were going for it, both ways were / are good for me
 
songsofglory said:
It's more about tactics than anything else. Again FCM we would have sat back and hit on the counter, where as Gerrard believed they were there to be got at and we just went for it and cruised through. Against teams like that, and poorer teams, we would regularly play a very defensive tactic.
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Pure supposition. I love Gerrard but he’s not been here long enough to be compared to Walter in any way.
 
Unicorn said:
What’s your point exactly? We also reached the last 32 of the Europea league and were unlucky not to go further. I can pick and choose games too like drawing at old Trafford or against a good Valencia team.
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First of all, cool your jets.

Secondly, my point was youre suggesting that comparing the last season to Smiths time was insulting because we were playing a better level of opposition so it was to show that we had some horrendous results against that opposition and we also had a better team ourselves.

The game at Old Trafford we had a stonewall penalty turned down so shouldve won and that Valencia team werent very good over both games and how we didnt win the home game is a mystery.

Nobody is dismissing Smiths achievements but you also cant say theres nothing to criticise.
 
bluenosebazza said:
First of all, cool your jets.

Secondly, my point was youre suggesting that comparing the last season to Smiths time was insulting because we were playing a better level of opposition so it was to show that we had some horrendous results against that opposition and we also had a better team ourselves.

The game at Old Trafford we had a stonewall penalty turned down so shouldve won and that Valencia team werent very good over both games and how we didnt win the home game is a mystery.

Nobody is dismissing Smiths achievements but you also cant say theres nothing to criticise.
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I didn’t say there’s nothing to criticise. The sample sizes are completely different. Gerrard’s consists of one season in the early stages of the Europa League and that’s it. Incomparable. There will be similar games under Smith but there will also be results - good and bad - against a level of opposition that, at the moment, Gerrard’s team can only dream of.

If Gerrard stays for a similar amount of time as Smith did then it will most probably include horrendous results in Europe - it would be naive to think it wouldn’t.

People are dismissing Walters achievements, by the way. They always do in these threads. Read the next post after this one.
 
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