cambridgeblue
Well-Known Member
So we could see employees of the Crown office facing criminal charges ?
Incredible - but unsurprising.
Duff and Duffer trial
- Thread starter mdingwall
- Start date
So we could see employees of the Crown office facing criminal charges ?
Incredible - but unsurprising.
Making a deal was never on the cards. The whole fiasco was a papist plot to discredit Rangers and damage the brand irrevocably.
Well placed plotters from the bank, HMRC, the mhedia - and God knows who else - were involved.
Surprise, surprise that the whole grubby affair was dragged out even further by the involvement of administrators and others, eventually involving the Lord Advocate, Francis Mulholland, a man who went on public record to defend the motives of the odious Green Brigade.
Who could believe that such a man would have any "malicious" intent whilst becoming embroiled in a case that did massive damage to the reputation and brand of Rangers, eh?
Der Berliner
Well-Known Member
You just hope that BDO chases them for whatever sum is possible after this and cleans the debts of OldCo as much as possible too.
Luca Stroppi
Well-Known Member
There are people in various places involved in this fiasco who must be feeling extremely uncomfortable at the prospect of a full public inquiry and as the whole chain of events was sparked by HMRC we should be entitled to know who was the driving force and why the dogged determination to plough on regardless seeing how it’s turned out to be a monumental disastrous waste of tax payers money. I hope this doesn’t go away, we need answers and I also hope the pressure will rise and rise forcing a full independent inquiry into the matter from beginning to end.
Alex Venters
Well-Known Member
I very much doubt there will be a public inquiry and there definitely won't be one should independence ever come to pass.
ScottishJournalismIsDead
Well-Known Member
Just thinking about us having an £18million debt prior to administration was nauseating.
cambridgeblue
Well-Known Member
Drewball
Well-Known Member
Ex-Rangers executive Charles Green urged to give evidence in £57m case
James Mulholland
Tuesday March 30 2021, 12.01am, The Times
Football
Prosecutors have admitted they should not have taken legal action against Charles Green
https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?te...-urged-to-give-evidence-in-57m-case-hvk25tjs7
https://www.facebook.com/sharer/sha...-urged-to-give-evidence-in-57m-case-hvk25tjs7
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...-urged-to-give-evidence-in-57m-case-hvk25tjs7
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...-urged-to-give-evidence-in-57m-case-hvk25tjs7
Charles Green, the former Rangers chief executive, was urged to give evidence in a £56.8 million action brought by a financial firm against the club’s former administrators.
Lawyers for David Whitehouse and Paul Clark have asked him to appear at the Court of Session. Andrew Young QC told judge Lord Tyre yesterday that solicitors were awaiting for a reply from Green, who is believed to be in France.
Whitehouse and Clark are being sued by the club’s former liquidator BDO. The pair worked for Duff & Phelps. The company believes the pair failed to cut costs sufficiently after they were drafted in to sort the then ailing club.
Young said: “I don’t have a written statement from him; he has spoken to those who have instructed me and he has given his views on a number of issues. We have asked whether he would sign a witness statement and give evidence.”
Whitehouse and Clark were appointed by the Court of Session as administrators after HMRC took Rangers to court for £18 million of unpaid tax in 2012. The men went on to sell the business and assets of the Oldco to Green’s consortium for £5.5 million before BDO was appointed to liquidate the old company.
The three were among seven indicted over fraud allegations relating to Rangers before the case was dropped in June 2016.
Both men raised a multimillion-pound action against the police and prosecutors last year. Prosecutors admitted the case was “malicious” and conducted “without probable cause”. Both received a large settlement. Prosecutors also admitted Green was wrongfully taken to court.
Deleted the picture of C Green from the article. Too upsetting.
RangersForever
Well-Known Member
There should be fail safe procedures in place to ensure no legal loopholes are provided to the accused. Agree there's likely to be many who are not great at their jobs but this case goes way beyond that.
This was more than just about unpaid tax, the fact our case was supposed to be THE test case and more would follow and that no other Club has been pursued shows this.
This was all about individuals in places of power with an agenda.
All the way down this road people have abused their power, hopefully when it all unravels questions will be asked of who was the driving force at HMRC and why.
D
Deleted member 3807
Guest
Can't agree. I think the Crown were doing everything they could to damage Rangers. They and others wanted the club gone.
Captain_Buns
Well-Known Member
Can't see what Chuckles could possibly have to say to back up the actions of Duff & Duffer NOT selling the stadium and assets. He wouldn't have been on the scene (publicly) at that point would he?
D
Deleted member 3807
Guest
Hilariously the Crown claim to have investigated the malicious prosecutions and admit mistakes were made, but are satisfied nothing criminal went on.
If it's left to Scotland's institutions then this will be acceptable, and everyone can just move along. Even now the only guys pushing for criminal investigations and independent inquiry are the wronged administrators. Scotland's media are too useless, MSP's useless, and we, the Rangers support, are hopeless at putting any pressure on anybody to find out the truth of what happened to our club.
cambridgeblue
Well-Known Member
If BDO win their case would D&P be liable to pay money to pay BDO to pay the government who have already paid D&P...
Yet nobody to blame..
Yet nobody to blame..
D
Deleted member 3807
Guest
I'll be surprised if BDO win this case. The administrators have wiped the floor with everyone in court: the SFA, Ticketus, Police Scotland and the Scottish Crown. If anything I hope more of the conspiracy to destroy Rangers is exposed when D&P defend themselves in court against BDO.
Bknowe
Well-Known Member
I don't think D & P were wrong in selling the Club & Assets as one with Ibrox & Auchenhowie included.
If they had done what BDO were proposing then you have a potential Sale & Leaseback that we fought against Ashleys influences to prevent, or you have a Coventry type situation where you have a Nomadic existence for a bit, eg sharing Hampden with Queens Park\SFA.
They did a lot wrong D & P, but I think this is one thing they got right.
Marty101
Well-Known Member
They would have to meet the test for professional negligence presumably, so they would have to show that in dealing with this:-
1. There was a normal practice,
2. That practice was departed from, and
3. No administrator of ordinary competence acting with ordinary care could have acted in the way they did.
The law accepts that there's room for professional disagreement about the best way to conduct something like this without there necessarily being negligence, basically (different if it's suggested D&P were doing something wrong deliberately, I suppose.)
That said BDO must have produced expert reports supporting their position about what should have been done and presumably they say D&P were out of order (although in turn D&P presumably have reports saying the opposite!)
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I think you missed my point. Many Rangers fans wanted Whyte, Green, Ahmad and others charged for what they did to Rangers. Most didn't care about the administrators - who were nothing to do with Rangers, they represented the creditors in realising the assets of the company. So, when the Crown did charge them most fans were happy. The Crown f*cked it up big time but it didn't have any real effect on Rangers or our future and it certainly wasn't going to destroy us. If the Crown hadn't charged them the fans would have been very unhappy.
Centralbear
Well-Known Member
BDO were Hearts administrators, as I recall they fought to avoid the seperate sale of Tynecastle which due to its location would have raised far more for development than the eventual amount accepted for the CVA.
That aside I would have thought that allowing our players to leave for nothing, as opposed to even distressed rates, may be something they may have a chance of success if it is part of the challenge.
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Bknowe
Well-Known Member
The biggest mistake D & P ever made was giving HMRC a claim of £94.5m when they were voting in the CVA.
They essentially awarded them a win in the BTC which at the time was several months away from a verdict that we would win. Their claim should have been around £15m. They would still have had the opportunity to block the CVA but maybe some pressure could have been put on them to accept, pending player sales in the summer for example. But a claim of nearly £95m meant the CVA was dead in the water and as we've seen in the last few years, that claim has come down drastically.
gersandproud
Well-Known Member
Obviously all the corrupt spivs including the likes of D & P who aided & abetted the entire fiasco - are as guilty as sin -
But equally - if not even guilty of worse corruption - are the parts played by HMRC, Lloyd's Bank, The SFA & the SNP run Scottish Government
I know this sounds like a scatter-gun swipe at every institution anyone can think of - but it really isn't
Each of those mentioned have blood on their hands in all of this - & it's made all the worse because they believe they simply need to close ranks & are completely untouchable
I'm not naive enough to think they'll ever be brought to full justice over this -
& I'm no lover of conspiracy theories - but hell mend anyone who thinks these official gangsters are in any way trustworthy
But equally - if not even guilty of worse corruption - are the parts played by HMRC, Lloyd's Bank, The SFA & the SNP run Scottish Government
I know this sounds like a scatter-gun swipe at every institution anyone can think of - but it really isn't
Each of those mentioned have blood on their hands in all of this - & it's made all the worse because they believe they simply need to close ranks & are completely untouchable
I'm not naive enough to think they'll ever be brought to full justice over this -
& I'm no lover of conspiracy theories - but hell mend anyone who thinks these official gangsters are in any way trustworthy
chilebear
Well-Known Member
In hindsight we can say this. But I think Whytes aim was to either sell the club as a whole or sell It and lease the stadium to whoever.
Thank God they didn’t.
We might have lost our stadium!!
There is no way Big Hands is going near any court unless it is in best interests.
This is clearly not an action I would expect him to participate in!!!
ChildOfGoth
Well-Known Member
What is that number now mate ? There are further possible reductions to come aren’t there
Bknowe
Well-Known Member
Off the top of my head its around 50m if I remember correctly. With, as you say a possibility of further reduction. It will be interesting to see what the final figure ends up.
Its really infuriating that those mental figures of over 100m+ were bandied around as fact when what we actually owed would have been about a 1/3 of that.
Barrymoped
Well-Known Member
We were basically shafted regardless.
We all know what happened to us in recent years, but if BDO or any other reputable liquidator took over both Ibrox and Auchenhowie would have been sold.
David Murray is to blame for everything here.
We all know what happened to us in recent years, but if BDO or any other reputable liquidator took over both Ibrox and Auchenhowie would have been sold.
David Murray is to blame for everything here.
ChildOfGoth
Well-Known Member
He totally exposed the club yes and it should never have been under the Murray group as it was never his to make that change .
that he ran into a bad scenario of the 2007/8 meltdown and had made dangerous enemies is another matter .
Rangerista
Well-Known Member
"
"The Custodian" he duplicitously called himself, whose vainglorious self interest almost cost us our club. His roaring silence over the last nine years says everything that we should judge him on.
g/hillger
Well-Known Member
was'nt it the case that by refusing to be tuped(i think that was the term used) to the new company the players were legally obliged to tear up their contracts and leave for nothing?
Barrymoped
Well-Known Member
While this is true, Findlay exposed the lie in court that Murray was “duped” and had no idea what Whyte had planned. He knew exactly what was happening and utterly shafted us.
Valley Bluenose
RTV? Completed it mate!
Had D&P followed the suggested course of action that BDO are suing them for then it could well have been catastrophic for our Club. I think its fair to say the D&P approach - on that particular matter - was beneficial. In other areas much less so.
Nevertheless, I wish BDO every success in suing the arse off of them. More money in the pot for Creditors. I can see no downside to a BDO win here, other than the whole episode being dredged through the media for days on end again (though with pending legal action by the Duffers that's going to happen anyway).
Nevertheless, I wish BDO every success in suing the arse off of them. More money in the pot for Creditors. I can see no downside to a BDO win here, other than the whole episode being dredged through the media for days on end again (though with pending legal action by the Duffers that's going to happen anyway).
Northhiglander
Well-Known Member
Seriously hope he keeps fighting this. Exposes the absolute corruption that is at the heart of this case.
Absolute disgrace this has got this far. Still keep thinking how many others didn’t have the resource he has and had to accept their fate?
Absolute disgrace this has got this far. Still keep thinking how many others didn’t have the resource he has and had to accept their fate?
Div1872
Well-Known Member
Hope Frank Mulholland faces a criminal charge when the ex D&P’s lawyers liaise with police
Issue is the police alongside Crown Office were acting in concert so have police Scotland involved imo is a clear conflict of interest as there may be evidence of a plot against D&P’s directors
The malicious prosecution admission is unheard of hence why it’s going to ultimately cost the UK taxpayer up to £100m in compensation plus other legal costs
If I was Whitehouse and Clark I would request the hearing in England but realise this is difficult due to legal systems but no way will it be properly dealt with given the recent track record of Wolffe. The CO and PS
Very murky indeed and I honestly hope the guilty are jailed for the devious and sleekit actions if it can be proven
Issue is the police alongside Crown Office were acting in concert so have police Scotland involved imo is a clear conflict of interest as there may be evidence of a plot against D&P’s directors
The malicious prosecution admission is unheard of hence why it’s going to ultimately cost the UK taxpayer up to £100m in compensation plus other legal costs
If I was Whitehouse and Clark I would request the hearing in England but realise this is difficult due to legal systems but no way will it be properly dealt with given the recent track record of Wolffe. The CO and PS
Very murky indeed and I honestly hope the guilty are jailed for the devious and sleekit actions if it can be proven
Correct. That’s what the 20m was for.
Don Vito
Well-Known Member
The chances of a successful investigation are slim I would say.
I had been in correspondence with my local MSP in regard to the “effigies at Parkhead“ case where the evidence was lost.
The MSP raised the question and I received a response in two parts.
In 2019, the Lord Advocate W. James Wolffe QC stated that the case is closed and cannot be re-raised.
In addition, he stated that the circumstances surrounding the loss of these productions would be investigated by Police Scotland.
Further communication regarding the resolution of this subsequent investigation have proved fruitless and my local MSP is no longer responding to my efforts to elicit a response.
Mr Yousaf merely pushed the blame for the loss of the articles of evidence onto the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service.
Whilst the above is not as fiscally expensive as the malicious prosecution case to the public purse, the modus operandi is similar in the response to public concerns regarding the impartiality of the judiciary, government and the police service.
douzpwa
Well-Known Member
It is highly unlikely they would not have escalated this case if they thought there was no chance of winning so what went wrong and who is responsible?
D
Deleted member 3807
Guest
Who is your MSP mate? And with all the scumbaggery going on at the Crown office who can rule out your MSP was warned off.
The justice minister, the Crown, Police Scotland, are any of them trustworthy? Scotland is in the toilet.
D
Deleted member 3807
Guest
I remember writing to Fiona Hyslop, who was MSP at the time, and asked what help the government could give Rangers. The Natzis had obviously put together a template for responses to questions on Rangers. It waffled through why the government were going to do f*ck all, and absolutely zero public money would be made available to Rangers (even though I said in my letter I knew public money wasn't an option). Well Fiona, you separatist fool, what do you have to say about making public money available now? It's going to cost Scottish tax payers over 100m to compensate everyone wronged by the Crown and Police. The Scottish Govt could have bailed Rangers out for less than that way back in the beginning.
There has been a conspiracy involving the Scottish Govt, HMRC, the Scottish Crown, and Police Scotland to shut Rangers down. I hope criminal investigations find everybody involved and they are thrown in prison.
bilkobear
Well-Known Member
Surely someone should have faced such charges when they lost the evidence in the 'Jimmy Savile Dome' effigy case?
The inadequate and spineless response to the case from the Crown was suspicious, to say the least.
There appears to be a lot of corruption in Scottish institutions nowadays.
D
Deleted member 3807
Guest
I'm even suspicious of BDO's motives for bringing the case against D&P. I wonder who took this decision for BDO? Are they as rabid as others involved, or were they leaned on to go down this route?
Barrymoped
Well-Known Member
No, by all accounts BDO are a professional outfit. They would have saved us in 2012, but at the expense of Ibrox and Auchenhowie being sold.
We were screwed either way thanks to Murray’s recklessness. But as a former bond holder I’m now quite happy they are going down this route.
Valley Bluenose
RTV? Completed it mate!
Really? BDO are bringing the case - they've hired a no win/no fee legal team same as they did when they went after CollyerBristow - so they can get more money for the Creditors pot. That's what their 'job' is.
As I've said earlier, had D&P gone down the route BDO have suggested they should have then it could have been disastrous for the Club. That matters not a jot now, but if they can win this case and get more cash for Creditors then more power to their elbow. That's a good thing. No? BDO, in my opinion (as one of the Creditors like many other on here) have done a pretty good job of making the best of the mess they inherited that they can.
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