Dutch Football

Papac

Well-Known Member
#1
Anyone else a fan?

Inspired by the thread on football in Argentina (I'm never learning the difference between Argentine and Argentinian) I thought that we could get one going for the Eredivisise, the Eerste Divisie and hopefully the occasional update about Mols fighting guys in the gym.



It's been one of the closest/strongest starts to a season from the big three in a few years.

Feyenoord are obviously a bit behind the top two but you can't blame them looking at those levels of consistency.

I'm watching the games in Dutch (with a view to picking up the language or at least Crocker-esque nonsense if that's what they're spouting). I'm sure that there's bound to be a few of you on here living in the Netherlands. One of the best things about the Argentina thread is the occasional local update on things like politics, history or historical/important games if someone living locally can take that up.

I think as a club, we've got a bit of a connection to the Dutch game through Advocaat, Numan, Mols, De Boer, Gio and a few others. There may be other connections for some people but for me that's where it started and hasn't yet stopped. Whenever Scotland weren't good enough to qualify for a tournament, Holland were my second team.



As an introduction to Dutch football, I can't rate this book highly enough:

The Netherlands has been one of the world's most distinctive and sophisticated football cultures. From the birth of Total Football in the sixties, through two decades of World Cup near misses to the exiles who remade clubs like AC Milan, Barcelona, Arsenal and Chelsea in their own image, the Dutch have often been dazzlingly original and influential. The elements of their style (exquisite skills, adventurous attacking tactics, a unique blend of individual creativity and teamwork, weird patterns of self-destruction) reflect and embody the country's culture and history. This book lays bare the elegant, fractured soul of the Dutch Masters and the culture that spawned them by exploring and analysing its key ideas, institutions, personalities and history in the context of wider Dutch society.


He's quite clearly biased in favour of Ajax (and Amsterdam) but then most people who saw Cruyff and have ever visited the most interesting city in Europe probably are. And if you're biased in favour of Amsterdam and Cruyff, then this is another couple of good books to get reading:





And if nothing else, if Rangers are playing while you're in Amsterdam and you can multi-task, you can probably watch us in the Satellite Sports Cafe in Leidseplein.

 
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sammysun

Well-Known Member
#6
In 67/68 I was in W. Germany, every weekend we would pile into a wagon and go over the border into Holland, to follow the great Dutch teams, loved to see this type of football, I was in the Army at that time, and though we were not in uniform the locals used to go nuts for us, drinks all round and much more besides, wonderful time, and the football was good to.
 

Papac

Well-Known Member
#7
In 67/68 I was in W. Germany, every weekend we would pile into a wagon and go over the border into Holland, to follow the great Dutch teams, loved to see this type of football, I was in the Army at that time, and though we were not in uniform the locals used to go nuts for us, drinks all round and much more besides, wonderful time, and the football was good to.
Any stand out players, games or memories?

This week in the Eredivisie:



AZ Alkmaar of probably cheated us in 2004 fame vs FC Utrecht of selling us Mols fame on just now. Mols is my favourite ever player and, along with trying to avoid being a glory hunter, that's why I try to support FC Utrecht. I've taken them to win here as well. Ahead of AZ in the league and in relatively good form leading up to the Christmas break. I reckon Gyrano Kerk is on his way to the big three or another side in Europe shortly. Talented young winger wearing #7 here for Utrecht.

It's available live on Betfair and Fox Sports 2 NL for those reading in clogs.
 
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Dave570

Active Member
#8
http://www.football-oranje.com/
Here is a great site where you can copy and paste the translation is already made.
I used to follow Dutch football with a passion but due to me being extremely busy writing and reading about Rangers I can't find the same time. I speak reasonably fluent Dutch so if you want something translated then give me a shout. I don't mean to come with 10 A4's at a time as I am not looking for a second job.:D

Yes!!! the green smilie is away.
 

BlueSteel

Well-Known Member
#9
I know we're supposed to have a soft spot for ajax as Rangers fans but psv have always been my dutch team.

Watched a lot of their games in the mid 2000s when they were making the knockouts in Europe.
 

Papac

Well-Known Member
#12
Gooooood thread OP.

Ajax are the team for me in that league, have a look into how they conduct themselves as a club financially and how they play the same 433 formation at all ages. The similarities between their model and the model Rangers are adopting are very similar.
I think they've been doing that since the 70s.

So as it stands, we're probably doing the right thing now but it's taken around 50 years to get there. :)
 

Papac

Well-Known Member
#14
Sounds a good idea OP.

Always liked Ajax growing up.

Anyone know if sky still have the broadcast rights?
I've watched a few games on Eleven Sports this season.

I have mixed feelings on Eleven Sports. It's probably a subscription too far but they're doing a decent job in showing lots of live European games for a fairly competitive/cheap price.
 

Hateleysheid

Well-Known Member
#15
I know we're supposed to have a soft spot for ajax as Rangers fans but psv have always been my dutch team.

Watched a lot of their games in the mid 2000s when they were making the knockouts in Europe.
We all have our crosses to bare, my fondness for Ajax comes from a misspent youth with many visits to the Dam.

Was at the Arena in December 2017 and saw Ajax demolish PSV, literally destroyed them that day. Lasse Schone was immense.
 

Papac

Well-Known Member
#16
AZ Alkmaar of probably cheated us in 2004 fame vs FC Utrecht of selling us Mols fame on just now. Mols is my favourite ever player and, along with trying to avoid being a glory hunter, that's why I try to support FC Utrecht. I've taken them to win here as well. Ahead of AZ in the league and in relatively good form leading up to the Christmas break. I reckon Gyrano Kerk is on his way to the big three or another side in Europe shortly. Talented young winger wearing #7 here for Utrecht.

It's available live on Betfair and Fox Sports 2 NL for those reading in clogs.
And in the spirit of all betting tips on FF, AZ have gone a goal up and Kerk was clattered early on in the game and has hidden since.
 

Hateleysheid

Well-Known Member
#18
I think they've been doing that since the 70s.

So as it stands, we're probably doing the right thing now but it's taken around 50 years to get there. :)
Yup and the Wee General gave us the HTC to move into youth development but we have only recently got our act together in that sense. I remember he said at the time after twisting Murrays arm to build HTC that it would be his legacy for the club.
 

Papac

Well-Known Member
#20
We all have our crosses to bare, my fondness for Ajax comes from a misspent youth with many visits to the Dam.

Was at the Arena in December 2017 and saw Ajax demolish PSV, literally destroyed them that day. Lasse Schone was immense.
In my post above, I'm trying to support FC Utrecht over them but that's who I've been to see, who made me interested in Dutch football and probably my favourite city in the world to visit.

I've been to the Arena 4 or 5 times and loved every minute of the experience. I'm incredibly critical of Scottish society and our acceptance/intolerance of some behaviours. Amsterdam is (to me) the opposite and a place that values the freedom of an individual over the power of the state to control things. Obviously within reason. In my first trip, I remember a guy trying to sell me drugs on the street and I said no I'll go to the cafe. I was confused until he offered me heroin or cocaine.

It's still like taking up an interest in Spanish football and following Real Madrid or Barcelona.

Hang on sky lost the rights apparently so take that back but you can watch through their betting app.
I think you can watch a lot of games through betting sites now. I'm watching/vaguely keeping an eye on the live game just now the Betfair app with the Arsenal-Chelsea game on the TV.
 

Papac

Well-Known Member
#21
Yup and the Wee General gave us the HTC to move into youth development but we have only recently got our act together in that sense. I remember he said at the time after twisting Murrays arm to build HTC that it would be his legacy for the club.
It was a step in the right direction but is it not more of a training facility than a proper youth academy? It's a bit off topic but I think it's a myth that the great Brazilian sides were formed through guys learning and playing football on the beach. They had properly designed and well funded training centres and youth academies well before it took off over here.
 

Papac

Well-Known Member
#22
I’ve a soft spot for Feyenoord due to my Nana who was from Zutphen.
I don't think you can really compare one country to another in terms of its football history.

Whenever there's a thread on here about Boca Juniors vs River Plate or something like that, you get guys trying to force in a "they're like Rangers and they're more like Celtic" argument.

At the same time, in terms of the Netherlands, it'd be more like a strong side from the capital dominating the game ahead of a team from Glasgow ahead of a side from Aberdeen.

It's something that I've said Scottish football is missing out on. A strong side from the capital challenging the Glaswegian ones would make it far more interesting.
 

SDF

Well-Known Member
#23
Ajax Barcelona Cruyff is one of the best football books I've ever read.

Cruyff is a fascinating interviewee but you can tell the two journos who interview him throughout the book want to throttle him at times with his stubborness and pigheadedness.
 

AmsterdamBear

Well-Known Member
#24
Utrecht my Dutch team, again because of Mols.

Tight start to the league but there’s a lot of pressure on Ajax to deliver the title given the eye watering amount of money they spent in the summer.
 

Salsabear

Well-Known Member
#25
I don't think you can really compare one country to another in terms of its football history.

Whenever there's a thread on here about Boca Juniors vs River Plate or something like that, you get guys trying to force in a "they're like Rangers and they're more like Celtic" argument.

At the same time, in terms of the Netherlands, it'd be more like a strong side from the capital dominating the game ahead of a team from Glasgow ahead of a side from Aberdeen.

It's something that I've said Scottish football is missing out on. A strong side from the capital challenging the Glaswegian ones would make it far more interesting.
Shame Wallace Mercer didn’t get his way.:D
 

Papac

Well-Known Member
#26
Shame Wallace Mercer didn’t get his way.:D
I've argued about it before on here and people are probably right in saying that this is how it is now and it shouldn't be changed. But whenever I see two 20,000 seater stadiums in Edinburgh I think that could be one 40,000 seater. And likewise for Dundee.
 

Papac

Well-Known Member
#27
Utrecht my Dutch team, again because of Mols.

Tight start to the league but there’s a lot of pressure on Ajax to deliver the title given the eye watering amount of money they spent in the summer.
The money they'll get on De Jong and De Ligt will probably cover that twice over.
 

Salsabear

Well-Known Member
#28
I've argued about it before on here and people are probably right in saying that this is how it is now and it shouldn't be changed. But whenever I see two 20,000 seater stadiums in Edinburgh I think that could be one 40,000 seater. And likewise for Dundee.
Flippancy aside, I totally agree.

Might be pushing it a bit but I reckon two stadiums would suffice for the four Lanarkshire teams also.

Granted there’d be wailing and gnashing of teeth for a while but long term it’d probably benefit them all financially.
 

Papac

Well-Known Member
#29
Flippancy aside, I totally agree.

Might be pushing it a bit but I reckon two stadiums would suffice for the four Lanarkshire teams also.

Granted there’d be wailing and gnashing of teeth for a while but long term it’d probably benefit them all financially.
We've got 42 top flight clubs with a population of 5,373,000 according to Google.

1 club for every 128,000 people.

If Holland had a similar ratio, they'd have 133 clubs in the top and second division.
 
#31
Anyone else a fan?

Inspired by the thread on football in Argentina (I'm never learning the difference between Argentine and Argentinian) I thought that we could get one going for the Eredivisise, the Eerste Divisie and hopefully the occasional update about Mols fighting guys in the gym.



It's been one of the closest/strongest starts to a season from the big three in a few years.

Feyenoord are obviously a bit behind the top two but you can't blame them looking at those levels of consistency.

I'm watching the games in Dutch (with a view to picking up the language or at least Crocker-esque nonsense if that's what they're spouting). I'm sure that there's bound to be a few of you on here living in the Netherlands. One of the best things about the Argentina thread is the occasional local update on things like politics, history or historical/important games if someone living locally can take that up.

I think as a club, we've got a bit of a connection to the Dutch game through Advocaat, Numan, Mols, De Boer, Gio and a few others. There may be other connections for some people but for me that's where it started and hasn't yet stopped. Whenever Scotland weren't good enough to qualify for a tournament, Holland were my second team.



As an introduction to Dutch football, I can't rate this book highly enough:





He's quite clearly biased in favour of Ajax (and Amsterdam) but then most people who saw Cruyff and have ever visited the most interesting city in Europe probably are. And if you're biased in favour of Amsterdam and Cruyff, then this is another couple of good books to get reading:





And if nothing else, if Rangers are playing while you're in Amsterdam and you can multi-task, you can probably watch us in the Satellite Sports Cafe in Leidseplein.

Always have a soft spot for Ajax and check their results every week.
Will contribute.
I enjoyed watching it on Sky last year but seems to have disappeared!
 

Papac

Well-Known Member
#32
Fox have the rights in Holland I am not sure who has the British rights.
Always have a soft spot for Ajax and check their results every week.
Will contribute.
I enjoyed watching it on Sky last year but seems to have disappeared!
They're on Eleven Sports now and we've been discussing above that they're quite often available on gambling sites. Not the ideal way to watch a game but better than nothing.
 

johnto

Well-Known Member
#33
They're on Eleven Sports now and we've been discussing above that they're quite often available on gambling sites. Not the ideal way to watch a game but better than nothing.
Aye because we really need a sky sports cricket/volleyball/golf/wrestling/netball channel... load of pish. Sky is dying (hopefully).
 

Papac

Well-Known Member
#34
Aye because we really need a sky sports cricket/volleyball/golf/wrestling/netball channel... load of pish. Sky is dying (hopefully).
I think there's going to be a Netflix or Spotify of sport (if there isn't already) soon.

DAZN in Germany are pretty much attempting it.

People are willing to pay for it but stretching them across multiple providers is pushing it.
 

Papac

Well-Known Member
#35
Ajax Barcelona Cruyff is one of the best football books I've ever read.

Cruyff is a fascinating interviewee but you can tell the two journos who interview him throughout the book want to throttle him at times with his stubborness and pigheadedness.


Big fan of this as well.

I'm not sure if the novelty of different people being involved in a biography would wear off but the format was so much better than the standard: "I did this, then I did that." style of most others.
 

SDF

Well-Known Member
#36


Big fan of this as well.

I'm not sure if the novelty of different people being involved in a biography would wear off but the format was so much better than the standard: "I did this, then I did that." style of most others.
Yeah, that's a great read as well. Especially the chapter on Inter where Bergkamp gives his opinion on his time there and the Italian team mates give theirs.
 
#37
Ron De Boer ( name dropping loyal) arranged tickets for me for the Ajax v Feyenoord in the Amsterdam Arena back in the early 2000s. The atmosphere outside before kick off was noisy to say the least but went up a level when the train bringing the Feyenoord fans appeared. Their was a big crowd surge and fireworks going off it was a bit crazy but highly enjoyable. The match its self was a bit of a let down it ended in a1-1 draw scorers - Van Persie and Ibrahimovic . I can honestly say that almost every Ajax fan that I spoke to that whole weekend would say Rangers when I said I was from Glasgow.
 

Papac

Well-Known Member
#38
Ron De Boer ( name dropping loyal) arranged tickets for me for the Ajax v Feyenoord in the Amsterdam Arena back in the early 2000s. The atmosphere outside before kick off was noisy to say the least but went up a level when the train bringing the Feyenoord fans appeared. Their was a big crowd surge and fireworks going off it was a bit crazy but highly enjoyable. The match its self was a bit of a let down it ended in a1-1 draw scorers - Van Persie and Ibrahimovic . I can honestly say that almost every Ajax fan that I spoke to that whole weekend would say Rangers when I said I was from Glasgow.
I spoke to a Dutch guy over there who called us Glasgow.

When the Champions League was kicking off, they weren't even thought of.

I quite like it. Just Glasgow.

 
#39
I lived in the Netherlands during the early 80s and mainly watched my local amateur team Hengelo. Now and again I would take the short journey into Enschede to watch FC Twente. (Name dropping) I had a blether with Arthur Numan last year about his time spent at Twente.
Always liked mixing with the Dutch fans.
 

Blaew

Active Member
#40
I have a big soft spot for Ajax. Began as a youngster watching their 90s team destroy so many bigger clubs in Europe on TV.

Unfortunately haven’t been to an Ajax game but have been to the ArenA to watch the Netherlands.
 
#42
Good thread OP.

That Ajax team who won the CL in the nineties are the best team I think I’ve seen, totally awesome. Even better than Red Star or Marseille.

I have a soft spot for PSV though, lived in Eindhoven once upon a time.
 

Papac

Well-Known Member
#43
Good thread OP.

That Ajax team who won the CL in the nineties are the best team I think I’ve seen, totally awesome. Even better than Red Star or Marseille.

I have a soft spot for PSV though, lived in Eindhoven once upon a time.
I remember (just about) supporting them against Milan in 2004/2005.

Beasley, Van Bommel, Park Ji-Sung and Cocu. Some team if you forget about Vennegoor of Hesselink.

I've just Googled it and it was the season that they also sold Kezman and Robben to Chelsea. I know that it's a strange thing but I've always admired the way the Dutch sides seem to find players, develop them and then sell them on to the biggest clubs and toughest leagues in the world as much as anything else.

We had successful ones like Boumsong, Jelavic, Arteta (sort of), Van Bronckhorst, Ferguson, Cuellar and Hutton. Even then, they only really go to England and not the rest of Europe. The only one that I can think of who made a better career for themselves abroad after leaving is Gattuso. I think we could have made more money on the 2012 squad if it hadn't have been for Whyte - though that's a pretty unique set of circumstances that'll hopefully never be replicated. Imagine that being a regular thing though with players as talented as them coming in every other year and leaving for a profit.
 

Dave570

Active Member
#44
I spoke to a Dutch guy over there who called us Glasgow.

When the Champions League was kicking off, they weren't even thought of.

I quite like it. Just Glasgow.

I once sent a complaint in to the NOS( Dutch BBC) about the commentator calling us just Glasgow. I got no reply but I like to believe it helped as they did start saying Rangers shortly after that. Many ordinary people still say Glasgow are playing Celtic.
 

Papac

Well-Known Member
#45
I once sent a complaint in to the NOS( Dutch BBC) about the commentator calling us just Glasgow. I got no reply but I like to believe it helped as they did start saying Rangers shortly after that. Many ordinary people still say Glasgow are playing Celtic.
I get that Rangers is our name and it's important but as above, I like it.

If you say United you know who you're talking about. The sad thing (or just new thing) about that though is if you say Manchester you probably have to pick one or the other.

If you said Munich you wouldn't be thinking about 1860. If you say Madrid, despite their recent efforts, it's still Real.

I'd like people to think of Glasgow and Rangers in the same way.
 

Dave570

Active Member
#46
For me it will always be the famous Glasgow Rangers. I will admit I wish the Glasgow was official but I hate being called just Glasgow. It is all about opinions though.
 

SSR

Well-Known Member
#48
Ron De Boer ( name dropping loyal) arranged tickets for me for the Ajax v Feyenoord in the Amsterdam Arena back in the early 2000s. The atmosphere outside before kick off was noisy to say the least but went up a level when the train bringing the Feyenoord fans appeared. Their was a big crowd surge and fireworks going off it was a bit crazy but highly enjoyable. The match its self was a bit of a let down it ended in a1-1 draw scorers - Van Persie and Ibrahimovic . I can honestly say that almost every Ajax fan that I spoke to that whole weekend would say Rangers when I said I was from Glasgow.
Going over next week for.. Feyenoord v Ajax away fans still banned.. was always lively when the Ajax train arrived at De Kuip ..
 

The_Degan

Well-Known Member
#49
PSV drop two points injury time equaliser to make it 2v2 v emmen . They were two nil up with 10 to go . Also had two goals disallowed when one up .
 
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