Dutch Football

Rodney Kongolo just came on for Heerenveen.

He's one of the many who left Dutch football in their early career before developing and even playing for a Dutch side. After spending 4 years in the Man City youth system, he's back in Holland.

I remember seeing a Dutch youth side that looked like it was full of the next generation of stars amount to next to nothing.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/international/2315855/Rigters-ushers-in-golden-era.html

Rigters, Babel (relatively), Drenthe and Maduro were the stand outs and none of them had particularly successful careers after looking like future world beaters.
Holland U21: Waterman, Zuiverloon, Vlaar, Donk, Pieters, De Ridder, Maduro, Bakkal, Drenthe, Rigters, Babel. Subs: Vermeer, Krul, Kruiswijk, Jenner, Bruins, Beerens, Schilder, Medunjanin, Jong-a-Pin, Janssen, Van Der Struijk.

At 21, Kongolo still has plenty of time to turn it around and probably made a lot of money in the City youth system. At the same time, looking at the likes of De Ligt, De Jong and a hundred others over the last 20 years would he (and the rest of the squad above pretty much) have been better off spending 4 or 5 years in the Dutch league before moving on to bigger leagues?
 
Need Heerenveen to hang on here.

Loads of gloating Ajax fans on our work WhatsApp, been giving it tight to the loan PSV fan all day :D
 
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No real changes at the top with PSV and Ajax both dropping points.
 
Big talking point was VAR pointing out to the Ref at the Ajax game that the Ajax keeper had bundled a Heerenveen player without getting near the ball. Incredibly the Ref never gave a penalty. The interviewer asked the head of VAR if he thought that Ajax, a big club at home had swayed the Ref's decision. The head of VAR said, "I don't think that but it is clear he got the decision wrong.
 
I’ll watch any football and I’ve watched the Dutch league a few times however it’s not one I pay close attention to. I think I will need to now seeing it’s so close.

Brilliant Orange is a great book too, read it a few years ago.

Been to Amsterdam 4 time and been to the ArenA so will have to take Ajax as my team.
 
I follow the scores, hard to follow as such since BT lost the rights.

Like to see Feyenoord win but not overly fussed.
 
Teddy Casablanca said:
Ron De Boer ( name dropping loyal) arranged tickets for me for the Ajax v Feyenoord in the Amsterdam Arena back in the early 2000s. The atmosphere outside before kick off was noisy to say the least but went up a level when the train bringing the Feyenoord fans appeared. Their was a big crowd surge and fireworks going off it was a bit crazy but highly enjoyable. The match its self was a bit of a let down it ended in a1-1 draw scorers - Van Persie and Ibrahimovic . I can honestly say that almost every Ajax fan that I spoke to that whole weekend would say Rangers when I said I was from Glasgow.
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I was at that game too. In the Feyenoord end though. I lived in Rotterdam from 2000 til 2001 and went to a few games then, which got me into them. When I came back home me and a couple of my mates bought season tickets as they were so cheap, about £130 at the time. We went to the PSV game which they got beat, Mateja Kezman running amok for de Boeren.

At the Ajax game it was something else, the atmosphere was bonkers. It was hard to compare to an OF game as I'm a bit more emotionally involved wen we are playing them. If I remember correctly Kuyt had a chance on the 90th minute to win it for Feyenoord, it'd have went tonto if that had went in.

I've a few Dutch mates who are Feyenoord through and through but have a soft spot for us now. I did see some sellik tops when I was over there and when I asked the people wearing them why it was either to do with the flag of rotterdam or because of Larsson.
 
Fudgie1973 said:
I was at that game too. In the Feyenoord end though. I lived in Rotterdam from 2000 til 2001 and went to a few games then, which got me into them. When I came back home me and a couple of my mates bought season tickets as they were so cheap, about £130 at the time. We went to the PSV game which they got beat, Mateja Kezman running amok for de Boeren.

At the Ajax game it was something else, the atmosphere was bonkers. It was hard to compare to an OF game as I'm a bit more emotionally involved wen we are playing them. If I remember correctly Kuyt had a chance on the 90th minute to win it for Feyenoord, it'd have went tonto if that had went in.

I've a few Dutch mates who are Feyenoord through and through but have a soft spot for us now. I did see some sellik tops when I was over there and when I asked the people wearing them why it was either to do with the flag of rotterdam or because of Larsson.
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Been going to Rotterdam since we played them in 2002..
Made some friends for life..
A lot of them come over to Rangers games and do European aways..
 
Love Ajax and try to get over often as I can. Unfortunately our business model now is that of a selling club,which means we aren’t ever going to attain our previous successes at champs league level. Still bringing through class youngsters, but their always going to have to be moved on.
 
SSR said:
Been going to Rotterdam since we played them in 2002..
Made some friends for life..
A lot of them come over to Rangers games and do European aways..
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Seen a bunch of Feyenoord fans earlier on in the season at a home game.

You normally will see at least one Ajax fan at Ibrox most games.
 
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I don't have a Dutch team per se, but I always end up watching Ajax in Europe over some of the bigger names in the Champions League/Europa League. I suppose it's to do with the iconic strip and memories of watching them as a kid in the 90s. They had some great games against Bayern this year.
 
Reports that Barcelona have finally struck a deal for de Jong.

As much as i'm not keen on Barca, i'm glad he's going to a proper football club and not Man City or PSG.

Shame he couldn't stay at Ajax for the rest of the season. He will be a future World Player of the Year in my opinion. He has the ability to reach Modric / Iniesta / Xavi levels.
 
FC Twente v Willem 11 on at 17.30 British time for anybody interested. Vuckic has just started training again after a long term injury so won't be playing.
 
SSR said:
Been going to Rotterdam since we played them in 2002..
Made some friends for life..
A lot of them come over to Rangers games and do European aways..
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That's great mate! I am a Feyenoord supporter by the way. And I will be there this weekend. Maybe we can have a beer at Varkenoord? Let me know.

For questions regarding Feyenoord links to Rangers and Celtic, most of the fans are more for the Tims because they wear the colours of Rotterdam. I would say the connection is also quite strong because of the European Cup in 1970, some of them even got some friendship over the years. But all of my mates at Feyenoord are more Rangers. So it's up to everyone to choose, even if some make the wrong choice, and some are wiser. ;)

It's always hard to compare the teams from one country to another, but Feyenoord and Rangers share this strong people's club thing. And I think the fans are a bit crazy the same way. Ajax is a more calm and upper-class club.
 
AmsterdamBear said:
De Jong is a good player but €75million is utterly mental money for a player with 5 caps and not a trophy to his name.
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I don't understand this logic.

It's what he's worth to Barcelona and it's enough to force Ajax to sell him.

If he develops into the player they think he is capable of becoming, at Barcelona - especially - you're not really at risk of being moved on for profit or wanting to leave for a bigger club.

If he stays there for the next 10-15 years, he'll help them win trophies and become part of the club and squad that generates potentially billions of pounds in income.

Admittedly, he's relatively young and unknown (relatively) but how much will they get back from that in shirt sales alone? Millions of youngsters buying the shirt of the new big money signing all over the world.

I'm also trying to imagine the good (or bad) that Rangers could do with £65 million.
 
Blaew said:
My bad: Deal is for the end of the season.
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On the Barcelona site now:

The Dutchman started out in the Willem II academy, but after just one year in Tiburg he caught the eye of Ajax, who signed him to the club in 2015. However, he was loaned back from Amsterdam to his former team to ensure he got enough playing time to fully develop as a player. De Jong then returned to Ajax to lead its reserve team, Jong Ajax, in the Jupiler League.

A year on from then, he started getting his first call-ups for first team duty, and appeared for the final minutes of the Europa League final against Manchester United in 2017. From there, he went on to become a regular starter, and eventually an essential part of the Ajax machine.
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Obviously the two arguments here for someone like Billy Gilmour are:

1. Stay with Rangers and get the game time at the first team level to continuously improve.
2. It's a short career - that kind of money is life changing early on and could set him up for life even if the footballing opportunities (at first team level) are stifled.

I posted a bit above about a generation of Dutch players that seemed to move too big too soon and who then didn't amount to much. Either they weren't that good at the time or the moves and lack of development in their domestic (or at smaller clubs) stifled their careers.
 
Papac said:
I don't understand this logic.

It's what he's worth to Barcelona and it's enough to force Ajax to sell him.

If he develops into the player they think he is capable of becoming, at Barcelona - especially - you're not really at risk of being moved on for profit or wanting to leave for a bigger club.

If he stays there for the next 10-15 years, he'll help them win trophies and become part of the club and squad that generates potentially billions of pounds in income.

Admittedly, he's relatively young and unknown (relatively) but how much will they get back from that in shirt sales alone? Millions of youngsters buying the shirt of the new big money signing all over the world.

I'm also trying to imagine the good (or bad) that Rangers could do with £65 million.
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It’s more a sign of the times mate unfortunately and the ability of the Dutch league to still attract big money for their players.

No player, no matter how talented leaves Scotland for half that money even with league titles under the belt.

Clubs like Barcelona can afford that on a gamble these days unfortunately and that’s exactly what it is because the lad has done very little internationally and hasn’t won anything yet.
 
Dave570 said:
FC Twente v Willem 11 on at 17.30 British time for anybody interested. Vuckic has just started training again after a long term injury so won't be playing.
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3-2 for Willem 11. Good second half with all the goals falling in it.
 
PSV currently 2-1 up at home to Groningen.

Feyenoord vs Ajax tomorrow is at 1.30pm so could be a decent game to watch before that.

Live on Eleven Sports 2 tomorrow.
 
drgriffen said:
On this day in 1993 Bergkamp scored this goal for Ajax:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1089077978657685506
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If you haven't read his semi-autobiography then I can't recommend it enough.

World class technique for that goal there.

His goal against Argentina is obviously one of the best of all time.

For me it showed that there's nothing long with a high through ball as long as the thought is there.

As much as it's probably not that memorable, this is one of my favourite goals of all time (about 38 seconds in) for the same kind of reason:


Kjaer to Rommedahl inch perfect cross field pass.
 
Inspired by the slashing in the Millwall vs Everton game and De Klassieker tomorrow, this is a pretty good article on the hooliganism between Ajax and Feyenoord.

The Battle of Beverwijk: Dutch Football's Brutal Hooligan Nadir
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This week marks the anniversary of the Battle of Beverwijk, perhaps the most brutal hooligan incident in Dutch football history.

By the afternoon of 23 March 1997, one Ajax supporter was dead and many more wounded. Their hooligan firm, F-side, were in retreat from one of the bloodiest flare ups Dutch football has ever witnessed. An organised brawl by the side of the A10 motorway had become so vicious, hardened fighters on both sides of the Ajax-Feyenoord divide baulked at the violence. As the dust settled, the face of Dutch football was changed forever.

While the English game had a particularly bad reputation for hooliganism in the 1970s and '80s, the Dutch equivalent followed close behind. It's easy to see that era of football violence through the narrow lens of Britain's contemporary social miasma (industrial upheaval, unemployment, and all the worst excesses of the Thatcher premiership), but bloodshed in the beautiful game was in fact a pan-European problem. Dutch law enforcement knew this better than anyone – though that didn't mean they were in a position to stop it.

By the time the '90s rolled around, hooligan activity was a constant issue for many Dutch clubs. Still, nothing matched the ferocity of De Klassieker – the nation's biggest derby, played between Amsterdam club Ajax and their Rotterdam rivals Feyenoord.

The mutual enmity between the two follows a complex narrative, of which persistent bouts of hooligan bloodletting form just one part. While Amsterdam is seen as the Netherlands' city of culture, Rotterdam is often characterised as a hardy, working-class port town; as such, there's a fundamental clash of identities at the heart of the derby. Likewise, the two clubs are traditionally the most successful in the Eredivisie, alongside PSV Eindhoven. They're also the best attended and supported, all of which lays the foundations for a particularly bitter rivalry.

The violent fringes of this rivalry came to the fore on that day in 1997, in an incident that would soon be known as the Battle of Beverwijk. While Manchester United were cantering toward their 11th Premier League title a few hundred miles away, Ajax and Feyenoord fans were preparing to go to war.

The basic facts of the fracas are these. On the morning of 23 March, with Feyenoord scheduled to play AZ Alkmaar later in the day, F-side and the S.C.F Hooligans (their Feyenoord counterparts) met on a desolate motorway siding near the town of Beverwijk. F-side are estimated to have been 150 men strong, the S.C.F. anything up to double that number. Combatants on both sides came armed with baseball bats, iron bars, tasers, hammers and knives.

The police had known a fight was due to take place. However, the two firms had co-ordinated at the last minute in a fashion that would have been fairly novel at the time – using mobile phones.

A local police chief subsequently told Dutch radio: "We would have needed airborne troops to get between them". Judging by the brutality of the fight, that might not have been enough.

After five minutes of combat, F-side retreated in the face of numerous casualties. One of those, a high-ranking elder statesman of the firm named Carlo Picornie, had been killed by blunt trauma to the head. Most of the cars which had been used to transport fans to the location of the fight had been set on fire. Police arrived, and 28 arrests were made in the hours following. In the meantime, they could only confiscate weapons – and try to deal with the carnage left behind.

The immediate reaction to the battle was, unsurprisingly, one of absolute horror. Feyenoord's chairman, Jorien van den Herik, said it was "a black day for Dutch football". On the day of Picornie's funeral, Feyenoord fans published a memorial message in De Telegraaf expressing regret at his death. While some members of F-side vowed revenge, a temporary catatonia seemed to descend on both sides of the derby divide.

S.C.F. member Leonardo Panton was subsequently sentenced to five years for killing Picornie. This whipped up a whirlwind of internecine strife for the firm, including accusations (and counter-accusations) of police collaboration. The mood was bleak.

The Battle of Beverwijk had consequences which reached far beyond the few hundred fans who took part, however. The police response to the incident has served as the blueprint for their efforts to combat hooliganism ever since. While nothing has ever rivalled the battle for its savagery, the antagonism between the two fanbases has never died away. Now, though, the law takes a hardline approach to De Klassieker – an approach which began with Beverwijk.

During the 1997/98 Eredivisie season, Ajax legends such as Frank De Boer, Patrick Kluivert and Marc Overmars contested De Klassieker against the likes of Ronald Koeman, Henrik Larsson and Giovanni van Bronckhorst in front of an empty away end – travelling fans had been banned from the fixture as a direct result of the clash. This tactic was used again just over a decade later when, in 2009, after another spate of violence, the powers that be agreed to ban fans from away games for a full five years. The ban has since been extended, and lasts to this day.

Similarly, the police started to treat hooligan firms as fully fledged criminal organisations after Beverwijk. That saw F-firm and the S.C.F. actively infiltrated by undercover officers, as well as the establishment of phone taps and informant networks.

The message was clear: from that point onwards, violence in Dutch football would be combated by any means necessary.
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Feyenoord v Ajax on Eleven Sports2 (or whatever other methods!)
Good Derby match before our kick off to watch, see Gio is leaving at the end of the season. Don't think that scenario ever plays out too well this far in advance although I remember Dick leaving for us was a done deal and they won the Dutch cup.
Surely Gio for Barca talk is a nonsense but with De Boer getting burnt at Palace, Germany or Spain must be the likeliest destinations for him
 
Arkanoid said:
Feyenoord v Ajax on Eleven Sports2 (or whatever other methods!)
Good Derby match before our kick off to watch, see Gio is leaving at the end of the season. Don't think that scenario ever plays out too well this far in advance although I remember Dick leaving for us was a done deal and they won the Dutch cup.
Surely Gio for Barca talk is a nonsense but with De Boer getting burnt at Palace, Germany or Spain must be the likeliest destinations for him
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For people interested in watching from all over the world today:

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I’m a fan of Dutch football and have been since I started visiting Amsterdam, which is my favourite place in the world to visit.

Been to about half a dozen Ajax games over the years including league, Champions League & Europa League.
Also been to Tilburg for a Willem II match a few years back as well.
 
Went to this fixture 3 years ago. Atmosphere was still immense even without Ajax fans there.
 
That was a thoroughly enjoyable first half.

This could end up 5 all if the second half is as open.
 
AmsterdamBear said:
5-2 now, no fan of Feyenoord but do enjoy seeing Ajax taken down a peg or two
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I've learned over the course of this thread that I can't really claim to support any of them.

I was enjoying watching Utrecht lately but have patched their game for this one.

Feyenoord have been excellent and it's great for their fans if this is the first time in 7 years.
 
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