empty stadiums throughout the SPL

That is an invalid argument that has been made for years. You will not get supporters of Dunfermline who want to go to Kirkcaldy to support Raith Rovers or vice versa. Similarly with any of the other Fife clubs, The classic example was when Third Lanark went out the game. The vast bulk of their support was lost to senior football. It was always mooted that Pollok Juniors picked up some of the old Thirds support but the guys that I knew just stopped going to games.
Exactly.

Even if they did go and watch other clubs the difference in crowds would be negligible due to the fact the crowds are so tiny in the lower leagues anyway.
 
It’s baffling. They could sell thousands of extra tickets that they evidently can’t shift on their own. It’s not as if they are losing much of a sporting advantage, we have comfortably better players as it is. If they sold say 5k extra tickets x 2 at what, £30 a pop, it’s an additional £300k, which would pay for 2 additional players on £3k pw. That has to be to their benefit.

And, the better competitive league, and bigger crowds would lead to better television deals, where the majority of money, and biggest 'leveller', comes from these days. Common sense all round.

Although they would lose the 'ah, they have a bigger budget' excuse. Scottish mentality issue; they'd rather be gallant wee losers.
 
And, the better competitive league, and bigger crowds would lead to better television deals, where the majority of money, and biggest 'leveller', comes from these days. Common sense all round.

Although they would lose the 'ah, they have a bigger budget' excuse. Scottish mentality issue; they'd rather be gallant wee losers.
Scotland must be the most parochial country on earth.
 
When I’ve watched Rangers archive on YouTube the stadiums around Scotland always looked full against us. Maybe back then most fans felt they had a chance against us but now the opposite? All seater stadia might not have helped either.
 
It's an embarassment. The only ground that's full is ours. I seem the Tim's goals on sky sports news there and it said 57k at the game, no danger. There was empty seats all over the place
In fairness there was a Rangers game on. We learned this week they would rather watch Rangers.
 
The league is killing itself. Teams dont play to win they play not to lose. Their is no entertaining football its 11 behind ball from 35 yards out. Its Boring

Agreed, but then they've no money so they cant buy players and they're just making up the numbers. Wont be long till its over.
 
Too many teams. The four or five hundred stragglers that'd get upset if their teams were merged should be consigned to history with the team. Their children and the local schools should be at the forefront of replacing them in the 'new' team's opening games/season. There's probably about 12 teams in and around the Glasgow area alone never mind the 4 or 5 in the Angus area.
 
Agreed, but then they've no money so they cant buy players and they're just making up the numbers. Wont be long till its over.

They would have more money if they sold us tickets for their empty seats. TV would pay more too for fuller stadiums.
 
Is there actually anything stopping the likes of St Johnstone having all their season ticket holders in their main stand? They could use the other 3 stands for us and the orcs which, we at least, would sell out. For the rest of their games they’d probably get away with only opening one of the other stands. They would then be quids in from 3(4?) sell outs and not needing to staff 2 stands the rest of the time.
 
Is there actually anything stopping the likes of St Johnstone having all their season ticket holders in their main stand? They could use the other 3 stands for us and the orcs which, we at least, would sell out. For the rest of their games they’d probably get away with only opening one of the other stands. They would then be quids in from 3(4?) sell outs and not needing to staff 2 stands the rest of the time.
Sensible but for that reason it won’t catch on in Scotland.
 
We could sell out every game we play home or away if allowed, and therefore at least 50% of live tv games. The answer is there if they want to listen.. We can do no more than offer.

With respect, giving unused 'away' tickets to Rangers fans might well help fill SPL stadiums, but it doesn't address the fundamental issue of why fans aren't supporting their local teams. Looking at the virtually empty stands at St. Johnstone yesterday was both depressing and worrying for the future of football in Scotland. When you look at the old footage of matches from the 60s 70s and even into the 80s, the grounds were mostly packed - even during periods when the OF were dominant.

In England, attendance in all of their leagues remains high, what then is the problem in Scotland?
 
Best thing for them would be us and Celtic going to England and switching to summer football.

May find a lot of either sets of fans going to see other teams during that period.
Personally I wouldn’t go and watch other any other team. I’m certainly not help fund teams that wanted us dead and away from those sides I can watch a similar standard at public parks on a Sunday.
Would genuinely rather watch the juniors tbh
 
With respect, giving unused 'away' tickets to Rangers fans might well help fill SPL stadiums, but it doesn't address the fundamental issue of why fans aren't supporting their local teams. Looking at the virtually empty stands at St. Johnstone yesterday was both depressing and worrying for the future of football in Scotland. When you look at the old footage of matches from the 60s 70s and even into the 80s, the grounds were mostly packed - even during periods when the OF were dominant.

In England, attendance in all of their leagues remains high, what then is the problem in Scotland?
How many rsc and csc buses leave from Perth etc? That is the biggest issue, and while it isn’t Rangers or their fault, it isn’t going to stop people blaming both teams.
 
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Too many teams for our population.
Look at the teams in Angus;
Montrose,Forfar,Arbroath and Brechin,all within 20 miles of each other and there’s Dundee and the Dabs close by too.
In the Central region it’s just as bad;
Stirling Albion,Stenhousemuir,Alloa,Falkirk,with Hearts,Hivs and Livingston near by,we can’t sustain this.
 
No one should ever miss out on a game unless it's a total sell out. St Johnstone and clubs should be forced for the sake of the game to fulfil the Rangers and Scum demand. No one wanting a ticket for a match with thousands of empty seats should ever struggle. Don't like having more away fans than home fans? Tough, find a way to sell tickets.
 
A lot of it is down to people from all over Scotland supporting us and the mentally challengeds.

Years ago when St Mirren were in the 1st division, I along with a lot of other Rangers/poets from the local area went to see them. It was great for them as a 'community club' and gave people an option if they couldn't attend Rangers or Celtic. There is absolutely no doubt St Mirren benefited from this for years. I wouldn't give them the steam off my pish now. They ruined it for themselves with the way they act now.
 
Price it appropriately and more folk will attend. £15 a ticket with kids under a certain age going free etc. Not much point in us doing this as we’ll sell out regardless but the rest need to take action. I get why the St Johnstone ends were sparsely populated yesterday, the majority of them probably knew they were in for another defeat paired with poor form so far this season.

Some junior sides have bigger attendances than the likes of Livi/Accies.

I must admit though, I applaud Ross County getting 4000ish punters per game despite their catchment area (by population) being tiny.
 
Can't understand why St Johnstone had so many empty seats today. Crowd was something like 6251. I did a quick check on wikipedia earlier and mcdairmid holds about 4000 more than that. That's a lot of revenue to lose and while they may not have sold every one of those empty seats to bears, it would surely have been a lot closer to capacity than what it actually was. When you add in lost potential for sales of programmes, food, drinks, etc, it adds up to significant losses and missed opportunity for St Johnstone today. If that happens, say, 3 times a season (I'm assuming that they host either us or the tramps twice a season) that's a load of dough that would surely be useful to clubs like these. Would it be that difficult to relocate saints supporters into 1 or 2 areas, so that their club could maximize revenue potential?

Much of the issue today v the 90s when they did relocate their own fans, is the rise of season ticket sales.

The wee clubs have pushed these understandably and people now view their season book as giving rights to sit on that actual seat for the full season.

Relocating fans with no season ticket “rights” was much easier.
 
The SPFL/SFA should be taking control of this and giving guidance and instruction to clubs in order to improve the image and saleability of our game.

Empty stands look shit and create a poor atmosphere thus reducing the price broadcasters are willing to pay.

Ita glaringly obvious what's needed to overhaul the overall image of the game and increase the income of all teams via broadcast deals yet the powers that be seem entirely uninterested in changing it.

I’m quite sincere when I say clubs should fined for not selling acres of empty seats to OF fans.

What St Dung did yesterday is embarrassing. The main stand on view half empty.
 
Overpriced tickets
Over the top stewarding and policing
Terrible football from the majority
Restrictions on alcohol
No pyramid structure
Playing the same teams 4 times a season

It's no wonder a lot of fans don't bother their arse. SPFL/SFA could do so much to get the fans back but they seem to be happy with the empty stadiums as they never do anything to change it.
Just about sums it up.
 
What’s crazy is per population we are the best supported nation in Europe.
Have heard this banded about but not sure it is accurate and cant find the stats to back it up - I would suggest that a fair percentage of our (and them) come from Ireland and England - so its a kind of misleading stat. What is more interesting is the utilisation figures - that is what percentage of seats are occupied as a factor of those available & apart from us & them then its very low - I only caught a wee bit of sprtscene last night but the Livi game looked like there was zero fans in two of the stands
 
The turnout in the SPFL/SPL has been the same for as long as I can remember (early 90s). Most stadiums are cold, then the weather’s shite, then the footbsll’s shite, locals don’t want to see their team get beat or they’re watching Rangers. Some stadia are too big for the size of the local population - some towns in Scotland that have teams should have one, it’s not worth it evidently. And some places (like Ayrshire, Dundee) don’t need more than one team.

As another example: Paisley is practically Glasgow nowadays, so what’s the point in St Mirren?
 
Compared to other countries in Europe we actually have the most going to football per population.

I blame whoever made half the teams build those shitey 10k all seater stadiums. So we have all these teams with grounds they will; never fill.
 
The turnout in the SPFL/SPL has been the same for as long as I can remember (early 90s). Most stadiums are cold, then the weather’s shite, then the footbsll’s shite, locals don’t want to see their team get beat or they’re watching Rangers. Some stadia are too big for the size of the local population - some towns in Scotland that have teams should have one, it’s not worth it evidently. And some places (like Ayrshire, Dundee) don’t need more than one team.

As another example: Paisley is practically Glasgow nowadays, so what’s the point in St Mirren?

Bad example because they actually fill a higher % their wee purpose built stadium than the other diddy teams. That's what happens when you can build what you need rather than being forced to build one that has more spaces than you have supporters.
 
Folk from across Scotland will want to support us or them. They'll have a passing interest in their local team but that's it.

The debate of club mergers is wank and will/should never happen, IMO.
 
One team has won the league 8 years in the spin and the treble treble with a good chance of a fourth treble - stepping outside being a Rangers fan (and if it was us on that run), how can that be good for the game?

It's absurd - an NFL approach is now required as the gap between the big clubs and the small clubs is getting bigger and bigger. Throughout Europe.

Rangers face a struggle to win the league coz they have a larger turnover, without Rangers, Celtic will win the league for the next 100 years (if the current format is kept).

You can plot who will win the league by who has the biggest turnover (with a large enough gap to second) almost every time.

France had the most expensive team at the last world cup and won it as a canter.
 
Much of the issue today v the 90s when they did relocate their own fans, is the rise of season ticket sales.

The wee clubs have pushed these understandably and people now view their season book as giving rights to sit on that actual seat for the full season.

Relocating fans with no season ticket “rights” was much easier.
Why don’t they do what we done for years with Brooloan ST holders, they can have their own seat, but will be relocated for games v us and them?
 
Don't understand why the Saints don't give us the far side and at least one end. Must cost them a fortune, not to mention the poor image for tv.

Ah well, it's their loss, we usually get the three points anyway.
In the 60' and 70's we were given the majority of the away grounds even against the tims we were given half of the piggery
 
Why don’t they do what we done for years with Brooloan ST holders, they can have their own seat, but will be relocated for games v us and them?

I don’t disagree with you mate, just saying that fans of the wee teams don’t like to lose their seats for the Old Firm games.

I think that the clubs worry that if they imposed this it would impact on season ticket sales. This comes from a chat with a director of a small team.
 
That is an invalid argument that has been made for years. You will not get supporters of Dunfermline who want to go to Kirkcaldy to support Raith Rovers or vice versa. Similarly with any of the other Fife clubs, The classic example was when Third Lanark went out the game. The vast bulk of their support was lost to senior football. It was always mooted that Pollok Juniors picked up some of the old Thirds support but the guys that I knew just stopped going to games.
Valid point mate but its ridiculous that two clubs in Dundee play in two separate stadiums next to each other would make sense to build one stadium and both clubs to play out the one stadium away from Tannadice and Dens .Happens in Italy .
Along the north side of the Forth from Alloa all the way up to Methil we have Alloa ,Dunfermline , Cowdenbeath , Raith Rovers ,East Fife , throw in St Johnston , Forfar, Brechin,Stenhousemuir, Arbroath ,and the two Dundee clubs all with a population catchment of fans smaller than Glasgow. Surely some of these clubs can amalgamate similar to what Inverness done
Total restructure is surely the only way forward .Two leagues of 16 with relegation and a pyramid system .Something has to change Jimbear restructure league , one governing body must be the way forward . At least get a think tank of football minded people to put recommendations to a totally new governing body to get those stands filled
 
Hatred, hatred of Rangers as well as being totally entrenched in mediocrity.

Sell whatever Rangers and the Bheasts want in your ground as long as it doesn't impact the home support.

St Johnstone's whole support could've fitted in behind the goals it was that poor.
 
The suggestion Gerrard made was valid and made complete sense when he discussed this last season.

Try and put as many home fans in the same stand in FRONT of the TV cameras to at least give the allusion that the stadium is quite packed rather than looking at rows of empty seats which is quite embarrassing for the overall imagine of our league.

They won't listen to our gaffer though
 
I hate to say this but the only way it will get better is with a better distribution of income - this in turn will disadvantage us in Europe. Its one or the other unfortunately.
 
I would rather be in England by taking over an existing club and possession of their licence. Failing that, there has to be a massive closure and merger of clubs. eg Kingdom Of Fife FC, County of Stilingshire FC, Lanarkshire FC etc.
 
Unfortunately our league structure is shit. Ideally I would like our league to be 16 teams+

More people will go to see the smaller teams as thry are 't getting humped and there is a bit of variety.

Fairer distribution of cash prizes would also help.
 
made the mistake of watching Sportscene and my god the empty stadiums throughout the league makes me question the value of winning the SPL! what an embarrasment our top league is with half empty shitey grounds and plastic pitches. We need to get out of this backwater ASAP!
I truly wonder if this is linked to the amateurish and corrupt way this league has been run since the timmish influence took over.

I think most people are decent and honest. This day and age, the social media age, I think the very worst of society screams the loudest.

I think that maybe all those fans that were screaming for us to be kicked out of football were the 'noisy wheel' and/or tims posing as fans of other teams (bar the obvious others: sheep shaggers, spoon burners and Dundee United (derogatory term?)).

When you see a league so obviously corrupt, why would you pay your hard earned money to this organization? Especially knowing that it's all been for the benefit of one team and it's almost a predetermined outcome?

There always has been the problem of the big two being miles ahead and everyone else playing for third. I'm sure the abhorrent refereeing hasn't helped either!

I don't know, just a theory from afar. Home based posters could probably either validate or dispel this by real time knowledge of the populace.

I know in the US this happens with elections. People don't vote because they know the system is rigged or corrupt.
 
The suggestion Gerrard made was valid and made complete sense when he discussed this last season.

Try and put as many home fans in the same stand in FRONT of the TV cameras to at least give the allusion that the stadium is quite packed rather than looking at rows of empty seats which is quite embarrassing for the overall imagine of our league.

They won't listen to our gaffer though

Papering over the cracks is all that is.
 
It may be but it's used in another countries and makes matches more attractive to viewers. No matter what match it is, it's always better watching it with the perception of a busy stadium.

I get that as it gives an illusion that the game is thriving and busy stadiums. It doesn't deal with the issue though that the authorities really need to be embarrassed into dealing with.
 
I would have thought that live televised football served up by Sky, BT etc is not helping attendances either.
In the US some leagues black out live coverage in the area that the game is being played so as not to hurt attendance. Think that should probably be looked into.

That said, attendance seems to be dropping in many leagues as HDTV provides amazing coverage and prices of games and incidentals skyrocket.

You can have a few beers and sit in your own home and enjoy the game for a fraction of what you pay to go to the game and pay for tickets, parking and concessions.

University of Kentucky used to draw 24k for every home game with a fan base similarly obsessed as Rangers. Now they are drawing under 20k and the arena has added luxury suites that reduce the arena capacity in hope of making up the income by catering to the wealthy.
 
Its the lower Premiership clubs, championship and leagues 1&2 that would have a problem with us being parachuted in, not to mention UEFA. Like it or not we are not wanted or needed down South or we'd have been there already.

'Not needed' is a very pertinent point. The EPL is currently bulging with money and they don't need our presence to enhance that. That ship has sailed.
 
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