England breaking down teams sitting in

dookieno8

dookieno8

Well-Known Member
Absolutely brilliant to watch and I'm hoping there's something we can learn from this, albeit a lot of it is to do with the quality in personnel. I'm also assuming the likes of Man City have already mastered this but to be honest, I don't really watch the EPL.

What I noticed was how the England midfielders and supporting strikers (wingers) loaded the box. It wasn't just that they were in the box but it was how deep they were, the penalty spot or beyond.

They were allowed to do this as they managed to retain the ball or the pressure on the ball around the 18 yard box. This is also something we do, however we either tend to panic and put the ball in the box where our attackers are at the 18 yard box or between the 18 yard box and the penalty area.

I noticed England combat this by going to the byline and coming back out instead of again rushing the ball into the box, this allows an increase in territory and actually more ball play in the box.

England are extremely composed and although it was Montenegro, their side is extremely exciting to watch but I don't think they're actually doing anything 'new'.

By the way, this isn't a criticism or anything like that, merely observations.
 
It really is as simple as having the quality, pace and finishing because they are top players.
 
dookieno8 said:
Absolutely brilliant to watch and I'm hoping there's something we can learn from this, albeit a lot of it is to do with the quality in personnel. I'm also assuming the likes of Man City have already mastered this but to be honest, I don't really watch the EPL.

What I noticed was how the England midfielders and supporting strikers (wingers) loaded the box. It wasn't just that they were in the box but it was how deep they were, the penalty spot or beyond.

They were allowed to do this as they managed to retain the ball or the pressure on the ball around the 18 yard box. This is also something we do, however we either tend to panic and put the ball in the box where our attackers are at the 18 yard box or between the 18 yard box and the penalty area.

I noticed England combat this by going to the byline and coming back out instead of again rushing the ball into the box, this allows an increase in territory and actually more ball play in the box.

England are extremely composed and although it was Montenegro, their side is extremely exciting to watch but I don't think they're actually doing anything 'new'.

By the way, this isn't a criticism or anything like that, merely observations.
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Bringing it back from the byeline is a good option instead of needlessly giving the ball away that's how the Sheep and Kilmarnock have benefitted from us ,they stop the cross coming in all the time its predictable. We also have to stop giving the ball away in our half then been cut right open how many goals have we lost like that this season, these are the tactics to nullify teams that sit in we need better players as well as the tactics for next season which I'm sure will happen.
 
They are also allowed to play.

If they had faced what we have to face most weeks then they would be playing against 10 or 9 men each game.
 
Like you say, its nothing new.

Getting defenders facing their own goal is what the wide men's job should be. Not punting it in aimlessly from level with the 18 yard box.
 
Our delivery from our “wingers” is really poor. Often the lazy early ball and often thrown in aimlessly.

You saw what a guided cut back from the byeline can do with Barkley’s goal last night
 
England are actually a very good technical side and very difficult to play against.
The drawback of switching off and letting the opposition into the game as we saw in the world cup has largely been eradicated.
I didn't rate Southgate as a player but he is certainly doing the correct things as a coach.
 
I agree. Where implementing that style of play will be difficult is at Ibrox with the "gerritintheboax" shouts that start as soon as the ball has left Shagger's gloves.
 
Tom1974 said:
Been like that for about 100 years, well the goalies hands.
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I remember on the old board having a "discussion" with one chap who was adamant Beasley was shite cause he turned back instead of whipping the ball into the box.

The trouble was, he'd broken down the left, and was so rapid, Boyd was more or less on the halfway line (not an exaggeration) and there was nobody in the box to whip it in to so he turned back and kept possession.
 
The mentally challengeds do this as well. Forrest and Sinclair often get to the byeline then either dink it to the back post for someone waiting for a tap in or cut it back for someone to get a shot on goal. Often get a second opportunity as well if the opponent make an arse of clearing it.

All to often we put aimless early balls into the box that are easy to defend against or there is nobody there to put it in the net. Need to be a bit smarter.
 
poets manage it relatively easy too. Think the difference with them is the strength running from midfield on the counter. We are very slow on the ball. When the ball breaks from a corner we immediately look to clear it as far as possible. The poets play the ball out wide and drive as fast as they can. Head down and break up the park. Thats what Barasic, Arfield, Tav and Jack at least should be doing.
 
Southgate said the plan was to delpoy the wingers as wide as possible and get the ball to them as often as possible

Stretches their defensive line, creates more space in the middle of the park for runners etc
 
Sterling for City and England always arriving at the back post when the balls on the other side too, our wingers never seem to do that
 
TinyRick said:
I remember on the old board having a "discussion" with one chap who was adamant Beasley was shite cause he turned back instead of whipping the ball into the box.

The trouble was, he'd broken down the left, and was so rapid, Boyd was more or less on the halfway line (not an exaggeration) and there was nobody in the box to whip it in to so he turned back and kept possession.
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Whenever I have watched Jordan Jones, he does the same with Kilmarnock.

If there are too many players blocking him, he will go back and retain possession. When there is space behind, he attacks at pace.
 
Good thread and again not a critique of us as such just a generalization re styles and play

I think we set the wrong tone and pitch this season when we added Lafferty - for a load of reasons, but that's neither here nor there - but one being, it set the tone that it was acceptable to boot it into the box and take an easy option, and an option that has loads of risk and unpredictable circumstance - and we oft go to that even when he isn't on the park.

The notion of a Plan B or change of plan being a big man to cross into irks me - even crossing in general irks me as such, you are marginalize your chances of success and its also somewhat difficult to coach around it is tough to replicate exact circumstance of crossing and what crossing into a packed box looks like as it is random - you are creating patterns of play you might rarely see in a game

When you watch a Man City, Liverpool for example loads of what they do on the park looks the same because the players have a memory bank, portfolio and history of seeing pictures that they can lean on and trust by default - yes they have better players, but they do clearly lean on base process of play in terms of running patterns and moving defenders around.

Stylistically - we - have crossed the ball far too oft this year - I just don't think you can coach crossing often well as there are so many mitigating circumstances but you can coach passing, running lanes etc as you can set circumstance when you do that and build a far better base place of familiarity.
 
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It certainly helps when you have wide players with the pace, trickery & off the ball movement of the likes of Hudson Odoi, Sterling & Sancho.

You look at how much dynamic the England attack looks now to even the World Cup under a year ago since the young pair of Hudson-Odoi & Sancho have been added. There's a reason why one is rated at £100M & the other is wanted by the likes of Bayern.

Under that England have the likes of Reiss Nelson, Foden, Sessengon, Demari Gray, & Lookman at U21 level, & the likes of Saka, Greenwood & Amaechi younger than them. They are going to have a bright generation of young, attacking talent. Don't think it's any coincidence either that they are nearly all mixed race either.
 
Superrangers said:
Whilst I know where you are coming from OP, I will reserve judgement until I see them doing it against a higher level of opposition.
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That's how it's Rangers related.

I know what you're saying, but you wouldn't expect us to be able to dominate teams in Europe... thus a different game plan would be applied.
 
dookieno8 said:
That's how it's Rangers related.

I know what you're saying, but you wouldn't expect us to be able to dominate teams in Europe... thus a different game plan would be applied.
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Well if we don’t look to learn from sides, we can only go backwards I suppose.
 
daviemc1872 said:
they also have players that are very good at taking defenders on at pace, we need that.
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Also what is required with a pacy run is a quality pass, quality ball control and finish.

That's the failure for most of the games this season.
 
England and their style of play was very impressive, but that Montenegro defence :eek: I think we could score 5 against them.
 
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