Everton after Alfredo morelos?

[ClockworkOrange]

To unsettle him and plant seeds of doubt/interest in his mind.

It's not exactly a new tactic either

Bit confused now - is that the same thing the media do with Eduoard? Because I assumed they were just wanting him to go for big bucks.

You're also aware of the work of his agent in all of this, yes? And that I'm sure it's always been his dream to play in a more prestigious league?

 

[CF3 Bear]

We need to receive transfer fees in the first place.

I think as a club and support we should be more focused on why that is, not bickering about some speculative fee.

If we don't, he stays. We are not in a must sell position. We have the power in this situation. The media will try and make out he's unsettled so the fans predictably start turning on him hoping the club get rid quick, the club then lose the upper hand and it invites cut price bids.

We really are our own worst enemy at times as a support.

 

[CF3 Bear]

Bit confused now - is that the same thing the media do with Eduoard? Because I assumed they were just wanting him to go for big bucks.

You're also aware of the work of his agent in all of this, yes? And that I'm sure it's always been his dream to play in a more prestigious league?

Yes I've already commented on him being quite up front about his ambitions of playing in one of the big leagues. He's also said he loves it at rangers.

So the difference between Édouard and dembele getting touted at £50m etc and Morelos getting touted as us being lucky to get £15m is this...

By stating his worth etc it invites bids of a lower value. One of these might take the interest of Morelos, but then the club don't think it is high enough. You have a player and club at loggerheads.

You overvalue Édouard when Celtic would likely jump at £20m for him. Bids come in below £40m which interest the player. He agitates for a move and reluctantly accept £25m.

 

[ClockworkOrange]

If we don't, he stays. We are not in a must sell position. We have the power in this situation. The media will try and make out he's unsettled so the fans predictably start turning on him hoping the club get rid quick, the club then lose the upper hand and it invites cut price bids.

We really are our own worst enemy at times as a support.

You're right in that we're not in a must sell position but the wider point I'm making is that for the second season in a row we're seeing widely speculative posts on Morelos' prospective transfer fee evaluation and for the second season in a row we've still to receive any bids. And I think we need to be quite clear here - no bids, at all. We've not received a cheeky lowball bid from a Brighton, or a Bordeaux, or a Red Bull, never mind a serious, substantial top-flight elite team like an AC Milan (linked last year) or a Barcelona (January) or an Atletico Madrid (April).

Either Morelos isn't as good as we think he is, or literally thousands of experts employed in football to scout and recruit future players aren't very good at their jobs. Which one is it?

 

[CF3 Bear]

You're right in that we're not in a must sell position but the wider point I'm making is that for the second season in a row we're seeing widely speculative posts on Morelos' prospective transfer fee evaluation and for the second season in a row we've still to receive any bids. And I think we need to be quite clear here - no bids, at all. We've not received a cheeky lowball bid from a Brighton, or a Bordeaux, or a Red Bull, never mind a serious, substantial top-flight elite team like an AC Milan (linked last year) or a Barcelona (January) or an Atletico Madrid (April).

Either Morelos isn't as good as we think he is, or literally thousands of experts employed in football to scout and recruit future players aren't very good at their jobs. Which one is it?

I wouldn't say it's clear we haven't had bids. We know the club do all their business minus leaks to the press, no reason to believe outgoing players would be any different.

After his first season there was a confirmed bid of £10m from a Chinese club. He has improved massively since then.

I do get what you're saying about him only being worth what others are willing to pay, but I'll use the analogy of a house for minute to explain why that's not necessarily the case when you're not forced to sell.

A house goes on the market with a home report value of say £200k. Say the market is in a bit of a downturn and the only bid coming in is £150k. You don't just accept that and say "ah well I've only had a £150k bid, that must be the value, I'll sell". You hold out until the market recovers and you get the true (or as close as possible to) market value of the house.

By using various comparison metrics, (not least the values received by the mentally challengeds from some of their players) we know his market value is much higher than £15m

 

[HandsomeHead]

Tierney 25 million. He's worth more than that for sure

The Tierney deal is one you just can’t ignore in terms of how we evaluate our players.

As much as I feel the £30m+ brigade are somewhat deluded, you then remember Tierney and say, “Well, maybe not.”

At the same time though, we have a player who has never managed to complete a season without a big chunk of it being disrupted by indiscipline and a loss of form.

That also can’t be ignored in terms of his worth and will give some potential suitors food for thought.

It’s possible he’ll go for as little as £10-12m therefore, but it’s probably just as likely he could leave for double that.

 

[ClockworkOrange]

I wouldn't say it's clear we haven't had bids. We know the club do all their business minus leaks to the press, no reason to believe outgoing players would be any different.

After his first season there was a confirmed bid of £10m from a Chinese club. He has improved massively since then.

I do get what you're saying about him only being worth what others are willing to pay, but I'll use the analogy of a house for minute to explain why that's not necessarily the case when you're not forced to sell.

A house goes on the market with a home report value of say £200k. Say the market is in a bit of a downturn and the only bid coming in is £150k. You don't just accept that and say "ah well I've only had a £150k bid, that must be the value, I'll sell". You hold out until the market recovers and you get the true (or as close as possible to) market value of the house.

By using various comparison metrics, (not least the values received by the mentally challengeds from some of their players) we know his market value is much higher than £15m

Rangers, Gerrard, King and Morelos' agent have done their best to talk up his potential transfer worth at every turn - in November, our manager told us, somewhat ridiculously, that he wouldn't sell him for fifty million. That we have received and knocked back bids - minus that somewhat dubious one from China - and it didn't reach the papers, seems highly unlikely.

The house analogy is a tidy little example but it's worth repeating again that the lack of any bids for Morelos seriously undermines the excessive transfer fees being bandied about on here for him. I've not offered any transfer evaluations of my own and given how financially immoral the sport is, it's utter folly to even attempt - but the uncomfortable elephant in the room is that other clubs just don't seem interested in all those goals in the Europa or the dozen or so in the league, and I'm afraid that invalidates all those spouting off at others for suggesting he might just not worth as much as we once thought.

 

[Karky Madoolla]

Can any of the geniuses on here tell me what exactly did Edouard do in the second half of the season to make him worth £20 million or so more than Morelos ? Score against the absolute dross that is the Scottish league? Really, is that it ? Our most valuable asset goes down in value during a pandemic but the filth’s goes up, nae bother. mentally challenged scum propaganda at its finest yet again.

 

[CF3 Bear]

Rangers, Gerrard, King and Morelos' agent have done their best to talk up his potential transfer worth at every turn - in November, our manager told us, somewhat ridiculously, that he wouldn't sell him for fifty million. That we have received and knocked back bids - minus that somewhat dubious one from China - and it didn't reach the papers, seems highly unlikely.

The house analogy is a tidy little example but it's worth repeating again that the lack of any bids for Morelos seriously undermines the excessive transfer fees being bandied about on here for him. I've not offered any transfer evaluations of my own and given how financially immoral the sport is, it's utter folly to even attempt - but the uncomfortable elephant in the room is that other clubs just don't seem interested in all those goals in the Europa or the dozen or so in the league, and I'm afraid that invalidates all those spouting off at others for suggesting he might just not worth as much as we once thought.

You may be right but I suspect not and we have been trying to keep it under the radar. Either way I think it would be verging on financial stupidity to sell him for less than £20m.

With the structure we are operating with, we have to maximise the gems we uncover

 

[davmcc]

Morelos is joint top scorer in the Europa League this year. (Top scorer by some bit if you include the qualifiers.)

He's a Columbian international.

He was 2nd top scorer in Scotland in his first season, top scorer in his second season and was sitting third during this incomplete season.

No chance should we be selling ourselves short.

£20m should be the minimum price.

 

[ClockworkOrange]

You may be right but I suspect not and we have been trying to keep it under the radar. Either way I think it would be verging on financial stupidity to sell him for less than £20m.

With the structure we are operating with, we have to maximise the gems we uncover

Again, all academic. The potential transfer fees aren't really what I'm here for. It's to point out that it seems, (though you disagree) that no one in world football seems interested in signing Morelos.

No Rangers player in history has been as rated as highly by the fans and as poorly by other clubs. It's certainly a strange situation that centres on the (albeit expected) overestimation and worth of his goals in Europe, for Colombia and in the league. People can talk about these things in glowing terms but it doesn't seem to interest...well, anyone.

 

[AzorIbrox]

You do realise that donkey centre half at Aberdeen McKenna has been quoted at £10m in our media.

As far as I can tell Aberdeen aren't in a better financial position than us, so why on earth would we accept a below market value transfer fee?

Aberdeen can put any figure they want in the paper, doesn't mean they'll get it.

I'm trying to be realistic about our financial situation and what other clubs would think about Alfredo. There's not a hope in hell we get over £20m unless he stays another year, has an immaculate season and fires us to glory.

 

[Hurricane Run]

Again, all academic. The potential transfer fees aren't really what I'm here for. It's to point out that it seems, (though you disagree) that no one in world football seems interested in signing Morelos.

No Rangers player in history has been as rated as highly by the fans and as poorly by other clubs. It's certainly a strange situation that centres on the (albeit expected) overestimation and worth of his goals in Europe, for Colombia and in the league. People can talk about these things in glowing terms but it doesn't seem to interest...well, anyone.

Never heard of anyone bidding for Messi either, so by your logic, no one must be intrested in him.

 

[CF3 Bear]

Again, all academic. The potential transfer fees aren't really what I'm here for. It's to point out that it seems, (though you disagree) that no one in world football seems interested in signing Morelos.

No Rangers player in history has been as rated as highly by the fans and as poorly by other clubs. It's certainly a strange situation that centres on the (albeit expected) overestimation and worth of his goals in Europe, for Colombia and in the league. People can talk about these things in glowing terms but it doesn't seem to interest...well, anyone.

Well let's look at it logically then.

You had Morelos getting a £10m bid from a Chinese team when he was very raw, didn't score as many in the league and hadn't got any European appearances other than 1 against progres (if he even played, I can't remember tbh).

So do you think the same team wouldn't be interested in him with a much better all round game and euro experience/goals under his belt?

 

[Porrohman]

heard quotes of that big dumpling ayer potentially going for over 20 million , mhedia press at their best so to sell our biggest asset Alfredo for anything less than 20 million would be a huge mistake, if there are genuine buyers out there then let them bid but we need to start selling our assets at top dollar for a change so start the bidding or GTF

 

[CF3 Bear]

Aberdeen can put any figure they want in the paper, doesn't mean they'll get it.

I'm trying to be realistic about our financial situation and what other clubs would think about Alfredo. There's not a hope in hell we get over £20m unless he stays another year, has an immaculate season and fires us to glory.

Our financial situation? Extremely healthy with sell outs more or less guaranteed for any games once crowd bans are lifted?

Celtic got £25m for Tierney who was injured at the time and is a LB. Let that sink in and ask if you are applying the same logic in Morelos' case.

 

[ClockworkOrange]

Never heard of anyone bidding for Messi either, so by your logic, no one must be intrested in him.

Come on mate, you know as well as I do that that's a ridiculous comparison. Don't sell yourself short.

 

[ClockworkOrange]

Well let's look at it logically then.

You had Morelos getting a £10m bid from a Chinese team when he was very raw, didn't score as many in the league and hadn't got any European appearances other than 1 against progres (if he even played, I can't remember tbh).

So do you think the same team wouldn't be interested in him with a much better all round game and euro experience/goals under his belt?

Possibly because they, along with everyone else, haven't made a bid...

 

[Hurricane Run]

Come on mate, you know as well as I do that that's a ridiculous comparison. Don't sell yourself short.

It was extreme but the logic is consistent. We were releasing quotes in January basically telling teams not to pick up the phone, unless they were happy to pay ridiculously over the top. Its hardly an enticement for a bid.

Id also suggest that teams dont just fire bids in for players. There are pre negotiations first to see what we would be looking for. If we are asking for £20M then why would anyone put a bid in for less, when they know it wont be accepted anyway?

 

[CF3 Bear]

Possibly because they, along with everyone else, haven't made a bid...

Do rangers bid for everyone they're interested in?

 

[ClockworkOrange]

It was extreme but the logic is consistent. We were releasing quotes in January basically telling teams not to pick up the phone, unless they were happy to pay ridiculously over the top. Its hardly an enticement for a bid.

Id also suggest that teams dont just fire bids in for players. There are pre negotiations first to see what we would be looking for. If we are asking for £20M then why would anyone put a bid in for less, when they know it wont be accepted anyway?

I suppose you believe Gerrard was being honest when he said that he would reject a 50 million pound bid for him as well, then?

 

[AzorIbrox]

Our financial situation? Extremely healthy with sell outs more or less guaranteed for any games once crowd bans are lifted?

Celtic got £25m for Tierney who was injured at the time and is a LB. Let that sink in and ask if you are applying the same logic in Morelos' case.

Our financial situation is okay at best. Still very much getting back to our feet following years of mismanagement and we are heavily reliant on our current board filling in the gaps. I'm sure they'll be desperate to start posting profits on our accounts as soon as possible, which means player sales will have to play a big part.

Celtic have a 10 year head start on us on selling assets and have cash in the bank. Van Dijk, Wanyama, Forster, Armstrong, Dembele. Like it or not Celtic have leverage when negotiating deals now and it's no surprise they were able to get that kind of money for Tierney.

 

[ClockworkOrange]

Do Rangers bid for everyone they're interested in?

Interested in and actually signing are very different things, and I'm not sure how it supports your argument, whatever it is.

 

[Hurricane Run]

I suppose you believe Gerrard was being honest when he said that he would reject a 50 million pound bid for him as well, then?

Youre off at a tangent here. I never said we would knock back any bid. I said we were essentially asking teams not to bid. At that point in time his value to us, was stronger than his true market value

 

[CF3 Bear]

Our financial situation is okay at best. Still very much getting back to our feet following years of mismanagement and we are heavily reliant on our current board filling in the gaps. I'm sure they'll be desperate to start posting profits on our accounts as soon as possible, which means player sales will have to play a big part.

Celtic have a 10 year head start on us on selling assets and have cash in the bank. Van Dijk, Wanyama, Forster, Armstrong, Dembele. Like it or not Celtic have leverage when negotiating deals now and it's no surprise they were able to get that kind of money for Tierney.

Celtic do not have cash in the bank. Where does this nonsense come from? They operate with massive overheads and rely on champions League money or a big player sale to prevent it being a loss making year. In what universe does that mean they have leverage?

 

[ClockworkOrange]

Youre off at a tangent here. I never said we would knock back any bid. I said we were essentially asking teams not to bid. At that point in time his value to us, was stronger than his true market value

Sorry - you must be new to football. A manager telling clubs not to bid for a player should not be treated as a honest and sincere plea not to come in for a player. It's almost entirely the opposite.

 

[BrooklynBlue]

Again, all academic. The potential transfer fees aren't really what I'm here for. It's to point out that it seems, (though you disagree) that no one in world football seems interested in signing Morelos.

No Rangers player in history has been as rated as highly by the fans and as poorly by other clubs. It's certainly a strange situation that centres on the (albeit expected) overestimation and worth of his goals in Europe, for Colombia and in the league. People can talk about these things in glowing terms but it doesn't seem to interest...well, anyone.

That's nonsense. I'd imagine the reality is that we've cut off potential bids by naming a starting figure that clubs have baulked at. In essence, hands off - for now, at least.

Given some of the transfer decisions made elsewhere and fees paid, let's not pretend the football world is full of perfect experts.

 

[Clicker]

Everton must have been linked with more players over the years than any other club in the country.

 

[AzorIbrox]

Celtic do not have cash in the bank. Where does this nonsense come from? They operate with massive overheads and rely on champions League money or a big player sale to prevent it being a loss making year. In what universe does that mean they have leverage?

Celtic have been successfully selling players for the past 10 years, we haven't. Of course that gives them leverage in negotiations.

 

[CF3 Bear]

Interested in and actually signing are very different things, and I'm not sure how it supports your argument, whatever it is.

My point is enquiries can be dismissed prior to formal bids being placed.

Look we seem to be going round in circles.

For years we undersold our assets compared to Celtic, regardless of our financial position. (Jelavic going for less than Gary hooper is a prime example).

We constantly slaughter Martin Bain for being a chancer and incompetent but if we are simply going to say a player must be sold for whatever bid comes in, then surely Martin Bain can't be blamed.

 

[CF3 Bear]

Celtic have been successfully selling players for the past 10 years, we haven't. Of course that gives them leverage in negotiations.

How?

Explain in any practical sense how that gives them leverage? Are we suggesting those at rangers lack the knowhow to sell players for their true value (or even an inflated value)?

Let's pretend you're right, wouldn't it be wise to not accept a lowball bid like £15m as it would merely continue the trend of not receiving top dollar?

 

[BlueReddington]

I don't believe the media up here have the sort of influence, some believe. I think big clubs will have plenty of stats on many potential targets that will determine whether they bid and how much they will offer. They certainly won't need Keech to highlight his disciplnary issues, or his positive attributes the way I think we are recruiting now (hopefully). He was a £20m player for me who has probably lost a few £m due to the economic climate we are in... The other side to that is any replacement will also have dropped in similar value

 

[Hurricane Run]

Sorry - you must be new to football. A manager telling clubs not to bid for a player should not be treated as a honest and sincere plea not to come in for a player. It's almost entirely the opposite.

You dont think Gerrard wanted to keep Morelos, at a point in time, where he was one of the inform strikers in Europe? When Gerrard was chasing his first league title, and Alfie was the biggest reason we were a game in hand away from going top of the league?

Im 100% sure that at that moment in time, Gerrard would categorically have wanted to keep Alfie, and would have pressured the board to reject any bid

 

[AzorIbrox]

How?

Explain in any practical sense how that gives them leverage? Are we suggesting those at Rangers lack the knowhow to sell players for their true value (or even an inflated value)?

Let's pretend you're right, wouldn't it be wise to not accept a lowball bid like £15m as it would merely continue the trend of not receiving top dollar?

Because teams are now looking at Celtic as a trusted source of talent. They've been winning everything up here and have a portfolio of players who have went onto better things. Clubs will have confidence in buying players from Celtic.

Whereas we are very much still recovering from an insolvency event and the best achievement our players have on their CV is the Europa League runs. Every single one of our players are for sale at a price because the club needs income. We've been very fortunate with our Europa League runs these past 2 years because directors can't keep dipping into their own pockets.

Morelos is the jewel in our crown. On his day he's unplayable but he comes with baggage that absolutely effects his overall value at this exact moment. Teams wouldn't think twice about paying big for Edouard, but there's a lot to consider with Morelos.

 

[supersonic]

Never heard of anyone bidding for Messi either, so by your logic, no one must be intrested in him.

guys got a point tbh, we haven't had a concrete credible bid from a club he would go to - to date. that unfortunately is the bottom line as it stands.

 

[Northampton_Loyalist]

Mass Email to every top flight team in Europe;

'Alfredo Morelos is not for sale, however, if a bid of sufficient value reaches us before 11/07/2020 we will consider it. Any bids received after this date will not even be entertained, as we have a season to prepare for.'

Set the ground rules, try and create a blind auction and keep him happy by showing him that we would have considered a move if it had come in on time!


Whatever happens, we absolutely cannot get right up to the season starting and haver over bids and how to replace him. This needs to be settled one way or another sharpish, not least to allow Gerrard to know what he is doing with his squad.

 

[The Punisher]

Mass Email to every top flight team in Europe;

'Alfredo Morelos is not for sale, however, if a bid of sufficient value reaches us before 11/07/2020 we will consider it. Any bids received after this date will not even be entertained, as we have a season to prepare for.'

Set the ground rules, try and create a blind auction and keep him happy by showing him that we would have considered a move if it had come in on time!


Whatever happens, we absolutely cannot get right up to the season starting and haver over bids and how to replace him. This needs to be settled one way or another sharpish, not least to allow Gerrard to know what he is doing with his squad.

so he’s not for sale, but we’re going to email every club, to tell them that he might be for sale?

 

[The Ranger]

Morelos is worth 20million all day long

 

[Coopers left foot.]

People are dreaming if they think we are getting 30M plus a sell on. If true would be around the 15M maybe slightly higher mark with a sell on.

So biscuit hips goes or 25 mill and we'll struggle to get 15 million for Alfie? Hmmmm

 

[Barrymoped]

To unsettle him and plant seeds of doubt/interest in his mind.

It's not exactly a new tactic either

I think his agent is doing a good enough job of that, he is trying to whore him everywhere.

 

[ClockworkOrange]

You dont think Gerrard wanted to keep Morelos, at a point in time, where he was one of the inform strikers in Europe? When Gerrard was chasing his first league title, and Alfie was the biggest reason we were a game in hand away from going top of the league?

Im 100% sure that at that moment in time, Gerrard would categorically have wanted to keep Alfie, and would have pressured the board to reject any bid

No one said anything about Gerrard not wanting to keep Morelos in that scenario, but a 50 million quid transfer would represent double the highest fee ever paid for a player in Scotland, the 36th highest transfer in world history and a 4900% increase in the amount that we paid for him. He'd have been offski, mate.

The lack of bids in that situation clearly indicates that clubs aren't willing to pay what we think he's worth - a point picked up on by @BrooklynBlue , which is fair enough. In which case, we're evaluating him too highly. Transfers are prolonged affairs that start with clubs bidding below what they think a player would go for and inching closer to the club's evaluation as time goes on. Morelos hasn't even been subject to a cheeky, lowball bid that the club can deride in public in an attempt to get his price up. It just isn't happening, for some reason.

To bring in @BrooklynBlue again, I'm loathe to disagree with the idea that the football world is full of perfect experts, but a quote from Arsene Wenger has always stuck with him - "everyone thinks they have the prettiest wife at home." Our love of Morelos represents a standard affection and recency bias for probably the first hero that most Rangers fans have had in a while and almost certainly our best player for the past however many years. But in the world of football, no one else thinks that our wife is pretty, as well. I'd say that's pretty noteworthy.

 

[ClockworkOrange]

My point is enquiries can be dismissed prior to formal bids being placed.

Look we seem to be going round in circles.

For years we undersold our assets compared to Celtic, regardless of our financial position. (Jelavic going for less than Gary hooper is a prime example).

We constantly slaughter Martin Bain for being a chancer and incompetent but if we are simply going to say a player must be sold for whatever bid comes in, then surely Martin Bain can't be blamed.

The club, Morelos and his agent are keen for him to go for big bucks and it's unlikely that enquiries and potential bids wouldn't be used in public as a way to broker for higher sums.

Can't disagree with the Bain allusion.

 

[mcbeath1872]

Morelos is worth 20million all day long

Agree with that.

20m and up is what is required to aquire a player of his calibre in my opinion.

The young man is a quality player, and a striker no less. He has great physical and technical quality. Players like Morelos do not come along every day, and they certainly don't come cheap.

 

[doyle55]

Morelos is worth 20million all day long

He's worth much more.

Liverpool sold Solanke for £20m.

A player who scored 1 goal in 21 appearances.

He's yet to score in 35 apps for Bournemouth going by wiki.

That's what £20m buys in epl nowadays.

 

[Gramps1]

How does the transfer window work this season?
Ours is open but England’s doesn’t open till later this month.
How can Everton if they are interested get him now?

 

[CF3 Bear]

I think his agent is doing a good enough job of that, he is trying to whore him everywhere.

That's what agents do. If their client is moving they aren't making money

 

[CF3 Bear]

The club, Morelos and his agent are keen for him to go for big bucks and it's unlikely that enquiries and potential bids wouldn't be used in public as a way to broker for higher sums.

Can't disagree with the Bain allusion.

I think the club are stuck between a bit of a rock and a hard place at the moment where they do want big bucks for him but they also know they have to challenge celtic. That is a lot easier to do with Morelos in the team.

Anyway bud, we'll wait and see. I would be very disappointed losing our best player on the cheap.

 

[BlueCofIbrox]

Has there been any definite, concrete interest?

 

[Chainman]

I don't want him to go as I think he will tear it up for us this season. For EPL teams the starting price is £20m though with add ons

 

[Danger Zone]

if any team gets him for 15 million they will have won a watch.why so many of our own on here keep downing him.is beyond me ...Rangers wont let him go until we get what will be rightly ours .
.if it means he stays until.that offer becomes available then so be it

Imagine the guys on here had to negotiate the deal.

Everton: *we’ll give you £20m*

“Nah lets make it £15m, he’s not worth more than that, never scored against Celtic, can’t carry his side for a full season and the market has to change now because of this coronavirus malarkey so I don’t want you skint EPL sides having to strain yer finances”