Ex-Rangers stars face huge tax bills

peter robertson

Well-Known Member
#1
REPAYMENT Ex-Rangers stars face huge tax bills this year after ‘failing to agree deal with HMRC over controversial EBT scheme’
It is understood former Ibrox aces were due to agree a repayment plan with HMRC by April 5 but some missed the cut-off
By Mark Hendry
15th April 2019, 8:53 am
Updated: 15th April 2019, 8:53 am
A NUMBER of ex-Rangers stars face huge bills this year after failing to agree a deal with the taxman over the controversial EBT scheme.
More than £47million was paid to Gers stars, managers and directors between 2001 and 2010 by Murray Group, owned by ex-chairman Sir David Murray.
PA:pRESS ASSOCIATION
2
Cash was paid in EBT's by The Murray Group led by David Murray
And last summer HMRC won a judgment over the Ibrox club’s use of loans to pay staff in a tax avoidance scheme.
Former Ibrox aces were due to agree a repayment plan with HMRC by April 5 but it is understood some missed the cut-off.
And Daily Record reports that they could owe MILLIONS.
A source connected with the investigation told how the unpaid cash will now be lumped together into a tax bill which is due to end at the end of this tax year.
PA:EMPICS SPORT
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Barry Ferguson was forced to declare bankruptcy following the tax case
They said: “Some former players were quick to agree a deal with the taxman who has been very fair in sorting out repayment plans.
“But others involved in the EBT scheme believe it’s the club who are to blame for this and are reluctant to pay the tax.”
A UK spokesman said: “HMRC is committed to providing affordable payment arrangements and enhanced support more vulnerable customers may need.”
It is not known which former Gers figures face the bills.
https://m.me/thescottishsun
 

Twosignals

Well-Known Member
#6
So we see Rangers mentioned, however throughout the U.K. possibly thousands of players will have brown envelopes dropping through their door from the Tax Man. Also take a look at high profile players declaring themselves Bankrupt, with the Misses laughing all the way to the Bank!, always a gig on the Biased Broadcasting Corporation?
 
#8
Maybe its just me being a little f@cked in the head, but, how can they chase the club AND the players for this?
Given oldco didn't pay, they are now chasing the players. Their argument would be that the players should have recorded the income on their tax returns and are still liable for it.
 

KuwaitBear

Well-Known Member
#9
Given oldco didn't pay, they are now chasing the players. Their argument would be that the players should have recorded the income on their tax returns and are still liable for it.
But surely if they chased the club originally then it can be assumed the club was the party being held responsible?
 
#11
BDO got the bill down from 92m to 64m as they argued the the penaltys were souped up they are still in talks too bring it down further wonder if this is to do with players getting chased for it now whole things a mess and Murray should be ashamed of himself but he will be sitting enjoying life the f€d that he is
 
#13
But surely if they chased the club originally then it can be assumed the club was the party being held responsible?
If your employer doesn't deduct enough tax from you, HMRC could chase them for it, but it's ultimately the individual's responsibility to ensure that they've paid enough tax, by doing a tax return.

HMRC went after Rangers partly because it was easier for them to do so, partly to establish a precedent and partly because they also had the responsibility to collect the tax, but that doesn't take away from the individual having the ultimate responsibility to pay the tax.

HMRC just want the tax and would be happy to get it from either source.
 

Three-in-seven

Well-Known Member
#15
How can they chase the employees cause the employer never paid the tax?
Just the same as they do with the common or garden worker.

If you underpay on income Tax, they will send you the notification requesting that you settle the underpayment, not your employer.

They will generally allow you to pay it over subsequent tax years, obviously depending on the amount you owe.
 

bilkobear

Well-Known Member
#18
Just the same as they do with the common or garden worker.

If you underpay on income Tax, they will send you the notification requesting that you settle the underpayment, not your employer.

They will generally allow you to pay it over subsequent tax years, obviously depending on the amount you owe.
I don't think that this answers the question.
They chased the club for the entirety of the unpaid tax bill putting the total sum on the accounts of the club itself.
This bill stands alive and is shown as a default payment against the Oldco.

To now chase the players for the unpaid monies is surely perverse and verging on criminal.

Say both were able to pay.
Then HMRC would receive double the money for the same bill.
Not even Loan Sharks on the high street get away with such a caper.
 

TN8

Well-Known Member
#21
Really shite situation which is affecting some more than others.

Say HMRC get a certain % of the payment eventually from oldco, are they still within their rights to get the rest from the players?
 

Peekaboo

Well-Known Member
#23
It is a different tax charge but based on the same amounts paid to them. Although the EBT case went against Oldco and deemed PAYE should have been applied to the payments it is very difficult for that liability to be transferred to the employee.

Therefore from 6 April 2019 there is a charge on any loans that are still outstanding on that date. You could either settle the original tax liability and unwind the Trust or pay the new loan charge or pay the loan back.

The loan charge has been legislated in such a way as though it can be transferred to the employee.

There has been quite a bit in Parliament about this because of the thousands of individuals including many contractors caught with some MPs giving evidence of constituents suicidal because of tax charges coming to light after years.
 

KuwaitBear

Well-Known Member
#27
If your employer doesn't deduct enough tax from you, HMRC could chase them for it, but it's ultimately the individual's responsibility to ensure that they've paid enough tax, by doing a tax return.

HMRC went after Rangers partly because it was easier for them to do so, partly to establish a precedent and partly because they also had the responsibility to collect the tax, but that doesn't take away from the individual having the ultimate responsibility to pay the tax.

HMRC just want the tax and would be happy to get it from either source.
I get that HMRC just want the money, but to chase a company to the point of extinction they are saying the company is liable, no? That being the case its absurd they can then chase after the employee.

Like I said maybe I'm just a little f@ucked in the head.
 

DotMantooth

Well-Known Member
#28
No real sympathy for the players to be honest, if they had just paid what they were supposed to, instead of having their heads turned by agents and Sir Duped, admin etc in all probability never happens.
 

Tugay83

Well-Known Member
#30
So it was an issue between individual players and HRMC? Cool. I look forward to the apologies to Rangers, hundreds of millions of points being paid back to us and all scores since 2012 wiped from the record.
Was an issue for both the employer and the individual. Employer has a duty to pay employers tax and NI. Individual has a duty to pay the correct amount of tax on their wages.

Players whould have had to declare all sources of income on a tax return, and only a small percentage of their wages would have been taken thru PAYE by the club. The remainder of their taxable income over 100k falls under self assessment, plus any other income they may have from other sources like investments or capital gains.
 

Sancus

Well-Known Member
#33
Say both were able to pay.
Then HMRC would receive double the money for the same bill.
Not even Loan Sharks on the high street get away with such a caper.
That would be double taxation and shouldn’t happen.

Both could be considered for penalties though.
 

Barrymoped

Well-Known Member
#35
It looks like BF is ahead of them all,you take advice and it bites you in the area years later.
BF was smart enough to put all his assets in his wife’s name, so when he declared bankruptcy last year it meant he no longer has to worry about this and still, through his wife, will not be short of a pound or two.
 

Three-in-seven

Well-Known Member
#37
I don't think that this answers the question.
They chased the club for the entirety of the unpaid tax bill putting the total sum on the accounts of the club itself.
This bill stands alive and is shown as a default payment against the Oldco.

To now chase the players for the unpaid monies is surely perverse and verging on criminal.

Say both were able to pay.
Then HMRC would receive double the money for the same bill.
Not even Loan Sharks on the high street get away with such a caper.
I think it answers the question BB, but it does not answer all the questions.

Why chase the club in the first place?

Why not just go after the employees?

On the occasions that I underpaid Tax through no fault of my own, HMRC at no time pursued my employers.

I was liable, as the unpaid tax was in my name.

EBT's may be the difference in this case?
 

jicrw

Active Member
#38
Maybe its just me being a little f@cked in the head, but, how can they chase the club AND the players for this?
This happened to me many years ago in the Offshore Oil Industry. I received a Tax Bill, for Tax a previous employer had deducted, but never paid. The Employee, is "Liable", I was reliably informed in a loud voice, by my friendly HMRC, representative!
 

KuwaitBear

Well-Known Member
#40
This happened to me many years ago in the Offshore Oil Industry. I received a Tax Bill, for Tax a previous employer had deducted, but never paid. The Employee, is "Liable", I was reliably informed in a loud voice, by my friendly HMRC, representative!
So I guess my question is, that being the case why don't we all do and pay our own tax. People are ultimately relying on our employer paying their tax for them and any employer can just say screw it, the liability is on the employee.

I know when I worked PAYE in the U.K. I never sat and thought I better put some money by just in case Balfour decide to screw me for my tax money.
 
#42
To be honest I’ve no sympathy here. It’s not like a normal employee, it’s big money contracts. Do not like someone says ‘should I put money aside in case my employer doesn’t pay tax’?) They would have been advised by people raking in cash (rangers supporters hard earned cash), so if they have to pay out they should sue these leach advisers snd bankrupt them.

Same applies to all football players obviously, and if they go after rangers they better go after them all. But why should they get paid massive amounts and not pay tax like the rest of us? Pisses be off that these guys (England mostly) getting paid hundreds of thousands a week-half should go in tax but it won’t be cos of EBT arrangements, image rights etc.

Anyway, just a rant...all that pr1ck Murray’s fault, while he’s still got two pennies they should be after him, and Goodwin for that matter, and Ashley for that matter etc etc. One rule for supper rich one for everyone else..
 

Greebo

Well-Known Member
#43
I think people need to remember that this actually relates to disguised remuneration. The Supreme Court ruled that such remuneration if it relates to employment is taxable. That includes loans, money being paid to relatives etc.

So when the players took the loans the money became due to tax. It was due from the player who received the loan.

Things changed significantly with the Supreme Court ruling, which cannot be appealed.
 

tazzabear

Well-Known Member
#45
To be honest I’ve no sympathy here. It’s not like a normal employee, it’s big money contracts. Do not like someone says ‘should I put money aside in case my employer doesn’t pay tax’?) They would have been advised by people raking in cash (rangers supporters hard earned cash), so if they have to pay out they should sue these leach advisers snd bankrupt them.

Same applies to all football players obviously, and if they go after rangers they better go after them all. But why should they get paid massive amounts and not pay tax like the rest of us? Pisses be off that these guys (England mostly) getting paid hundreds of thousands a week-half should go in tax but it won’t be cos of EBT arrangements, image rights etc.

Anyway, just a rant...all that pr1ck Murray’s fault, while he’s still got two pennies they should be after him, and Goodwin for that matter, and Ashley for that matter etc etc. One rule for supper rich one for everyone else..
Good point.
If their advisors, who would’ve taken advice themselves no doubt, told them all was well with EBT’s, they're the ones at fault.
I’m sure no player decided, individually and on his own accord, to take Murray’s advice on remuneration.
If they did, fool them but, they didn’t.
 

Peekaboo

Well-Known Member
#46
I think it answers the question BB, but it does not answer all the questions.

Why chase the club in the first place?

Why not just go after the employees?

On the occasions that I underpaid Tax through no fault of my own, HMRC at no time pursued my employers.

I was liable, as the unpaid tax was in my name.

EBT's may be the difference in this case?
See my post above - new legislation which can now target loans which remain unpaid post 6 April 2019.
 

Tugay83

Well-Known Member
#47
So I guess my question is, that being the case why don't we all do and pay our own tax. People are ultimately relying on our employer paying their tax for them and any employer can just say screw it, the liability is on the employee.

I know when I worked PAYE in the U.K. I never sat and thought I better put some money by just in case Balfour decide to screw me for my tax money.
The tax situation for footballers earning tens of thousands a week is different from ordinary working people earning tens of thousands a year.

They don't pay standard PAYE deducted at source. The onus is.on them to declare their income on a tax return and pay it in two lump sums in July and January. The club as employer still has a responsibility to pay employers PAYE and NI contributions.

I used to deal with PAYE for a living and the amount of ignorance on this thread is staggering. Folk spouting off utter nonsense about something they clearly know literally nothing about
 

Marty101

Well-Known Member
#48
I don't think that this answers the question.
They chased the club for the entirety of the unpaid tax bill putting the total sum on the accounts of the club itself.
This bill stands alive and is shown as a default payment against the Oldco.

To now chase the players for the unpaid monies is surely perverse and verging on criminal.

Say both were able to pay.
Then HMRC would receive double the money for the same bill.
Not even Loan Sharks on the high street get away with such a caper.

Without knowing the exact details of the legislation involved, it’s posssible (and fairly common) for 2 or more separate parties to be jointly and severally liable for the same debt.

That doesn’t mean the creditor gets paid twice, just that the total amount due to the creditor can be split in whatever way is most beneficial to the creditor between the debtors.

(There is then a right of relief between the debtors, but that’s a matter for them, not the creditor.)
 
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