Expanding Ibrox.

My preferred option would be a third tier on the Jardine Stand. Apart from the Argyle Restaurant everything else housed there currently can be relocated either to the Copland/Broomloan and Edmiston House or even a new building behind the Broomloan.
I also think the screens should stay but should be bigger than they are now and the cladding around them changed to blue.
 
This wouldn’t be anywhere near as much work as the club deck was . Remember the club deck meant work on a listed building, putting the glass staircases in etc .

This would be Work on a relatively modern purpose built stand . Cheaper than what you’d think .

I’m no engineer but you’re being wildly optimistic thinking 12 million would cover it . Not to mention the difficultly of building on top of the govan while maintaining good views .

then there’s the limited ground space at the rear of the govan that might cause issues .We might bebetter looking to revamp the Copland stand . More space , cheaper than the govan and could be used as a template for the broomloan and govan when finances allow
 
I’m no engineer but you’re being wildly optimistic thinking 12 million would cover it . Not to mention the difficultly of building on top of the govan while maintaining good views .

then there’s the limited ground space at the rear of the govan that might cause issues .We might bebetter looking to revamp the Copland stand . More space , cheaper than the govan and could be used as a template for the broomloan and govan when finances allow

The £12m number wasn’t from me - it was another poster.

Scoping is the key here. Has the Govan been prepped from another deck or not? Cost? Options in other stands?

But my central message is the same - can we find a large scale project that self funds? I suspect yes.
 
The 3 stands were all Engineered to take another tier when it was built.
Rangers own the Engineering Drawings for the 3rd tier for all. Murray bought them for the club.
Some of the older boys on here will remember it being published by the club.
Take the roof off put a new tier on and treplace the roof. SJ stand should be first IMO.
This would be unreal to see happen!
 
I’d suggest it needs scoped and options looked at.

One idea would be a joining fee of £1,000 to get access to the Exec Deck - this could raise around £4m if capacity was 4,000.

But “Asset Finance” is quite common in business, where you borrow to fund the purchase of a specific asset. I’m sure a model of that nature could be looked at here.

Even a Ticketus Type venture, where we sign away the season ticket cash from the new tier to a finance house for x number of years in return for an up front payment.

I guess a share issue would be an option, but not sure it would be the preference.

Surely that's what a share issue should normally be for, to raise funds for a capital investment in order to improve the business going forward.

I would certainly prefer it to your other options which to me sound like fancy ways of saying loans.
 
The economic benefits are clear, but King himself said he felt any increase would be in “the low thousands”. I took from that maybe 2, 3000 more at best.

Currently we’re still running at a loss and I’d imagine it’ll need a good few years of stability before we’ve improved our credit sufficiently to secure the money needed to undertake such a venture.

With Brexit set to impact on the economy I don’t see a big job like this being financially viable until the end of the 2020s at the earliest.
Personally as long as we're stuck playing football in the Scottish system I think 55 k is the right amount.
 
Personally as long as we're stuck playing football in the Scottish system I think 55 k is the right amount.

See i just dont get this mindset.

Not specifically aimed at you as know other bears feel this way but does anyone believe the mentally challengeds have a bigger support in Scotland than ourselves?

No if course not so why should we not aim higher than a 55k stadium if feasible?

If they can sell around 55k season tickets then so can we plus some.
 
I don't get the thinking behind this 40 year old dated stands comment, if the structure is still in good health, and we have absolutely no reason to doubt it is then it matters not one jot how old the infrastructure is. Same with being dated, how does that prevent expansion? The cost is the only barrier but the addition income from say 5,000 extra seats over a sustained period would cover that in time. 5,000 x £600 a year plus European games and cup games would give us over £3.5m a season, in 10 years or so it'll be paid off.
I agree with you. Look at Old Trafford that's what they did there they built on the existing infrastructure and stands increased it to 75,000 so another 6,000 7,000 will be nothing .The infrastructure is already there.
 
Personally as long as we're stuck playing football in the Scottish system I think 55 k is the right amount.

I tended to agree until recently but it’s now very hard to get tickets for ordinary matches at Ibrox.

Eventually the game by game fans will stop trying to do so and find other things to do in their leisure time.

Demand outweighs supply and I think more seats would allow us to meet this and continue to develop the fan base through other initiatives.
 
Surely that's what a share issue should normally be for, to raise funds for a capital investment in order to improve the business going forward.

I would certainly prefer it to your other options which to me sound like fancy ways of saying loans.

Yes, it would be a loan but so what?

A loan secured against the future income (for a limited number of seasons) from the area to be developed.

I have no issue with another share issue either as an alternative.

Point is a project, may well be doable, on a self financing basis without impacting on other areas of the clubs operation - transfer funds etc.
 
I tended to agree until recently but it’s now very hard to get tickets for ordinary matches at Ibrox.

Eventually the game by game fans will stop trying to do so and find other things to do in their leisure time.

Demand outweighs supply and I think more seats would allow us to meet this and continue to develop the fan base through other initiatives.
We're at 50/51 the now I think 55k would accommodate those fans.
 
Yes, it would be a loan but so what?

A loan secured against the future income (for a limited number of seasons) from the area to be developed.

I have no issue with another share issue either as an alternative.

Point is a project, may we’ll be doable, on a self financing basis

The club is predicting a requirement for £10m additional funding this season. Where do you think the loan would come from if the directors, and in particular Dave King, are going to cover that shortfall.

It is all very well to suggest borrowing, but you can only do that if someone is willing to lend the money in the first place.

As to your Ticketus suggestion, they take something like a 20% premium on season ticket purchases if I remember correctly. That seems like an awfully expensive way to go.

Bottom line, whilst your idea may be feasible, perhaps even a good one, is it really possible just now.
 
The club is predicting a requirement for £10m additional funding this season. Where do you think the loan would come from if the directors, and in particular Dave King, are going to cover that shortfall.

It is all very well to suggest borrowing, but you can only do that if someone is willing to lend the money in the first place.

As to your Ticketus suggestion, they take something like a 20% premium on season ticket purchases if I remember correctly. That seems like an awfully expensive way to go.

Bottom line, whilst your idea may be feasible, perhaps even a good one, is it really possible just now.

Assuming a practical project can be found, the point is it could be ring fenced from the rest of the business.

Financing it would be a separate job to that of meeting the operational funding gap needed “to keep the lights on” that Mr King and others have been assisting with.

This is an asset finance project with a defined income stream that could be used to pay back the lenders. Quite normal in business.

An upfront joining fee to access the Exec Deck could potentially take quite a bit of the financial sting.

I suspect we under estimate how many people and businesses (not large enough for full corporate seats) would pay a significant premium to be in an Exec area.

I’ve a small business that could stand for a couple of tickets at £1,000 each in this kind of area. I would be able to put the cost through my books.
 
If Choppy’s proposed Exec Deck was to be built on top of the Sandy Jardine Stand you would almost certainly need to remove the roof. The biggest problem holding back filling the corners to the same height as the existing stands is the goal post structural arrangement that holds up the front edge of that roof, the other two big ones being the smaller goal post structures holding up the Copland and Broomloan roofs.

As I see it, you have three choices here.
1. Do you build this Exec Deck and leave the corners as they are. This adding perhaps 4K seats?
2. Do you replace the roof support structures on the three stands with longer structures with the supports (think Club Deck stairs) outside the footprint of the stands and fill the corners full height with no restricted view seats. This would add 8-9K seats. I think this may be achievable whilst retaining the existing roofs which would reduce the construction costs.
3. Do you do 2 but add in a third tier to the Sandy Jardine meaning a new roof structure to that stand but simplifying the replacement roof supports for the two end roofs. Potentially would add anything up to 15k seats, maybe even more.

My preference would probably be 2. That would leave the club able to add a third tier onto the Sandy Jardine if it wished to do so at some later time. I’d also add that if you did option 2 and wanted to expand the Bar72 experience, why not do it in the upper tier of the Sandy Jardine as it is now. Start in the middle section and expand it outwards as required. I’m sure the Argyll suite could be reworked accordingly.

A final thought on a third tier - we often complain about the away support getting prime seats in the corner. Would no-one else have them up there, out of sight, out of mind and hemmed in by Perspex and, as Henning Berg says in his post (#442) above, clever engineering of the angle of the tier?
 
Last edited:
If Choppy’s proposed Exec Deck was to be built on top of the Sandy Jardine Stand you would almost certainly need to remove the roof. The biggest problem holding back filling the corners to the same height as the existing stands is the goal post structural arrangement that holds up the front edge of that roof, the other two big ones being the smaller goal post structures holding up the Copland and Broomloan roofs.

As I see it, you have three choices here.
1. Do you build this Exec Deck and leave the corners as they are. This adding perhaps 4K seats?
2. Do you replace the roof support structures on the three stands with longer structures with the supports (think Club Deck stairs) outside the footprint of the stands and fill the corners full height with no restricted view seats. This would add 8-9K seats. I think this may be achievable whilst retaining the existing roofs which would reduce the construction costs.
3. Do you do 2 but add in a third tier to the Sandy Jardine meaning a new roof structure to that stand but simplifying the replacement roof supports for the two end roofs. Potentially would add anything up to 15k seats, maybe even more.

My preference would probably be 2. That would leave the club able to add a third tier onto the Sandy Jardine if it wished to do so at some later time. I’d also add that if you did option 2 and wanted to expand the Bar72 experience, why not do it in the upper tier of the Sandy Jardine as it is now. Start in the middle section and expand it outwards as required. I’m sure the Argyll suite could be reworked accordingly.

A final thought on a third tier - we often complain about the away support getting prime seats in the corner. Would no-one else have them up there, out of sight, out of mind and hemmed in by Perspex and, as Henning Berg says in his post (#442) above, clever engineering of the angle of the tier?

Some great suggestions.

I would like to think Mr King and co are looking at similar just now.
 
We would have enhanced their set up big time with our vast British fan base.

This was done to death at the time - there simply was no route to England

If I recall correctly UEFA even clarified their rejection of any (new) cross border applications
 
Demand now for every game exceeds our capacity, even in the lower leagues we were selling out, how could Ibrox be made bigger with no impact on the current capacity? To do such a thing they would probably have to reduce to capacity to do the works which would have a impact on season ticket holders . For me it would be to fill in the corners by taken the screens away would probably add a extra 5k seats would that be enough? I am not saying it going to happen anytime soon but I would love to see it.
its not needed , There is spare tickets for every game except against Celtic , just look at the ticket office section on this or go outside Ibrox subway and you get a ticket no bother , we always have a couple hundred short of a full house.
 
its not needed , There is spare tickets for every game except against Celtic , just look at the ticket office section on this or go outside Ibrox subway and you get a ticket no bother , we always have a couple hundred short of a full house.

So the mentally challenged have a bigger support than us in Scotland?

More people want to watch them?

Are able to sell more season tickets than us?
 
So the mentally challenged have a bigger support than us in Scotland?

More people want to watch them?

Are able to sell more season tickets than us?
Celtic have 57k every home game Ha Ha (look at the newspapers crowds, then look at any game and theres plenty of green seats all over the place) if anyone believes that, they will be sending their letter to Santa in the next week
 
Hypothetically I would prefer the corners filled rather than the 3rd tier on the Govan/SJ stand

1- would look more symmetrical and better on the eye
2- would allow ordinary punters in rather than execs I think that’s one aspect we currently have well covered in the main st
 
its not needed , There is spare tickets for every game except against Celtic , just look at the ticket office section on this or go outside Ibrox subway and you get a ticket no bother , we always have a couple hundred short of a full house.

I beg to differ.

If you’re traveling for outside of Glasgow, it’s far from ideal basing your day on the concept you’ll be able to pick up a couple of tickets relatively close together from a guy outside the subway.

There are literally thousands of fans who would not do this and who can’t or find it difficult to get tickets from the very limited public sale number these days.

I actually think the current situation is a barrier to the club in attracting non season ticket holders to games.

In due course many non season ticket holders go onto want season tickets and replace those that drop out for whatever reason - this is healthy along with maintaining a reasonable level of casual support.
 
Hypothetically I would prefer the corners filled rather than the 3rd tier on the Govan/SJ stand

1- would look more symmetrical and better on the eye
2- would allow ordinary punters in rather than execs I think that’s one aspect we currently have well covered in the main st

Might not be a popular view, but I think Bar 72 has shown there is a big demand for premium / exec type tickets.

Increasing their availability significantly has proportional a far bigger impact on the income to the club. In the short / med term that would improve the financial payback of build costs and longer term provide a higher income stream to the club.

I would be making a massive pitch to the small business owners fans to buy at least 2 tickets via their business as part of the business marketing costs.
 
I reckon we could only seriously consider adding an extra tier if season ticket demands were consistently over 60-65,000 applicants. We are doing well at the moment to be mid-40's.
 
I beg to differ.

If you’re traveling for outside of Glasgow, it’s far from ideal basing your day on the concept you’ll be able to pick up a couple of tickets relatively close together from a guy outside the subway.

There are literally thousands of fans who would not do this and who can’t or find it difficult to get tickets from the very limited public sale number these days.

I actually think the current situation is a barrier to the club in attracting non season ticket holders to games.

In due course many non season ticket holders go onto want season tickets and replace those that drop out for whatever reason - this is healthy along with maintaining a reasonable level of casual support.

I never had a season ticket until upto this season and I’ve hardly missed a home game in years with the exception of the old firm games , if you want a ticket for any other game you can get one no problem.
 
The clubs not in a strong enough financial state to do this.

If the project was financed on a stand alone basis and guarantees from future revenue put in place to pay the finance I genuinely don’t see why we are not.

Capital expenditure can be treated quite separately to the funding gap referred to in the recent accounts.
 
I never had a season ticket until upto this season and I’ve hardly missed a home game in years with the exception of the old firm games , if you want a ticket for any other game you can get one no problem.

Many people want / need to get multiple tickets close together if attending with kids for example.

Doing that isn’t easy this year - far from it.

Also we now have a genuine season ticket waiting list - all be it of an unquantified number, but genuine none the less.

The idea that demand for tickets isn’t something that can be stimulated is not true in any event.
 
Celtic have 57k every home game Ha Ha (look at the newspapers crowds, then look at any game and theres plenty of green seats all over the place) if anyone believes that, they will be sending their letter to Santa in the next week

They have sold 55kish season tickets - it doesnt matter whether they attend every game or not.

If we had a 60k capacity we would sell a similar/greater amount.

Its not rocket science ffs.
 
Demand now for every game exceeds our capacity, even in the lower leagues we were selling out, how could Ibrox be made bigger with no impact on the current capacity? To do such a thing they would probably have to reduce to capacity to do the works which would have a impact on season ticket holders . For me it would be to fill in the corners by taken the screens away would probably add a extra 5k seats would that be enough? I am not saying it going to happen anytime soon but I would love to see it.
Not needed since half the crowd leave early
 
Far more pressing issues than this. Plus, I'd much rather a stadium that is usually full, with a rush of people trying to get tickets etc, than expand and have some wide open spaces.
 
You said we do not need to increase our capacity.

My point is if celtic can sell 55k in season tickets and we have a bigger support.

Why would we not need to increase our capacity?
We don’t need to though , there is tickets available and spare seats at most games except old firm games , why is that so hard to understand ?
 
They have sold 55kish season tickets - it doesnt matter whether they attend every game or not.

If we had a 60k capacity we would sell a similar/greater amount.

Its not rocket science ffs.
I don't believe for one minute they've sold 55k season tickets. Given that there are many low key games at the Piggery where the attendance doesn't breach 30k we are asked to believe it is normal for 25k plus to not attend.?? I'm fully behind any sensible, cost effective expansion of Ibrox btw.
 
if we were to go down the road of a stand alone self financing type scenario for funding stadium upgrades,then this may be the best time to do it,with interest rates being at a low level this would be beneficial to ourselves,of course we may find getting the finance agreed may be a little troublesome due to our credit ratings and recent dealings,but nothing i think that could not be overcome in raising this money,the club would need to be convinced that it would pay its way within an agreed timescale
 
We don’t need to though , there is tickets available and spare seats at most games except old firm games , why is that so hard to understand ?

Because if we had say a 60k capacity, it would allow us to sell 55k season tickets instead of 45k.

For bigger games against the mentally challenged, sheep and big euro games we would sell out.

Conservatively taking into account ticket revenue + food programmes merch etc we could be looking at an extra £5 million per year.

Why would we not look at the feasibility of doing this to try to narrow the gap on our turnover and the mentally challengeds.

Why is that so hard to understand?
 
The 3 stands were all Engineered to take another tier when it was built.
Rangers own the Engineering Drawings for the 3rd tier for all. Murray bought them for the club.
Some of the older boys on here will remember it being published by the club.
Take the roof off put a new tier on and replace the roof. SJ stand should be first IMO.
Whilst this is technically possible it will not happen for financial reasons. Love to see it though in my lifetime.
 
I personally think any talk of expanding the stadium or introducing safe standing should be put on the back burner until we start to consistently break even and get the fat rat away from the retail deal.

The board have done an amazing job getting the stadium back into a decent looking shape and have poured money into us.
 
dopf4fB.png
 
I personally think any talk of expanding the stadium or introducing safe standing should be put on the back burner until we start to consistently break even and get the fat rat away from the retail deal.

The board have done an amazing job getting the stadium back into a decent looking shape and have poured money into us.

But an expanded stadium, done on a self financing basis (if deemed possible after scoping work) would be a massive contributor to us breaking even through extra revenue generation, not a barrier to it.
 
A bit pie in the sky I know but I've always thought the best way to get round the roof support problems would be to put 3 tiers in the corners similar to old Trafford. The extra steel could surely support the roofs.
 
The first two pics are unofficial images of a proposed 3rd tier on the govan . The last pic is the official one from the prospectus when deciding upon the filling in of the corners .





The third pic is how I’d like to see the corners filled, although the third tier in the top two pics looks good.

One thing that really must be considered if expanding in any way, shape or form is expanding the Albion car park. The board should be trying it’s utmost to secure the land up to the Esso filling station and also get permission to expand over the top of the railway sidings towards Helen Street. I believe this is a prerequisite for any expansion.
 
Back
Top