Explain that?
- Thread starter The Goal Machine
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A Class Above
Well-Known Member
We got 3 goals handed to us tonight through outrageous defending or passing at the back. That doesn’t happen in our league.
Sweet_Home_Alabama
Well-Known Member
The scum do and do so every week. It's not rocket science. Clement simply will not change his approach to SPL games. Next post on this thread is also a clue as to last night's fine win.
I hope I'm wrong but it will be back to the usual scrappy performances against St J and Killie.
Unless we perform with vigour and smash them both I remain in "Clement out" camp.
The league is our bread and butter, Europe is just a pleasant distraction.
Battle Fever's On
Well-Known Member
In Europe we get to physically compete with our opponents equally without being penalised every time we win the ball back after tackles.
If we rough up opponents in the SPFL the way we did last night we get fouls given against.
You can see the difference a mile off.
Killer Bob
Well-Known Member
You can't put it all down to Nice being poor. We are in the top 8 after 5 games.
McQueen
Well-Known Member
Dado_Prso_9
Well-Known Member
It’s all very simple, and McCoist hit every single point in his commentary.
This team enjoy the underdog tag in Europe and benefit from the space found when playing opponents who are more open, ie: they attack us.
That said, Celtic attack us and we shit ourselves.
Last nights result absolutely cannot be taken as anything other than what it was; circumstancial.
Nice had several key players missing and when their captain went off, their average age was 19. We played the Nice B-team, and they were a shambles at the back.
As Ally said, how much of this was down to Nice being really poor and Rangers being really good is up for debate. Nice were absolutely rotten, I’ve never seen a European tie with such a disorganised defence and it looked like most of their team had chucked it.
This result is welcome, I enjoyed the game, but it’s not indicative of any improvement or that Clement is “the man”. What we seen last night was two rotten football teams play one another and ours came out looking better.
Let’s see what normality Sunday brings.
GrandBelial
Well-Known Member
I woke up this morning thinking I dreamt that performance. So I guess that's a good sign. I can only hope that it was a corner turning performance that gives the team the confidence to play how they will need to in the coming months.
artificialintoleranz
Well-Known Member
That is a very good question as well, maybe the more pertinent question.
Work that out, get the mentality right for those games, and i have a feeling the rest although a different challenge would fall into place.
LutherCalvin
Member
Strange that the Bheasts don’t struggle against Scottish teams though.
JerseyLoyalist
Well-Known Member
That was their first home defeat this season.
Cardiffloyal
Well-Known Member
This exactly. All our decent performances come against very weak opposition or teams that try and play football against us. If Clement can't find the formula to beat the spl bus parkers all these great euro nights won't save his job.
thus is exactly it, Clements style of play is fine when teams come at you.
But when faced with a SPL wall of defending players he cant figure it out, or is unwilling to adapt to figure it out.
Flying Dutchman
Active Member
Totally agree with all the posts.
I would also add, a lot of our players don't seem to be able to handle the physicality of the spfhell.
Diomande for instance looks like a 100k player in Scotland and a 10 million player in Europe.
I would also add, a lot of our players don't seem to be able to handle the physicality of the spfhell.
Diomande for instance looks like a 100k player in Scotland and a 10 million player in Europe.
JC85
Well-Known Member
No it isn't. They've got better players and a better manager with the right approach.
Thornliebank_Bear
Well-Known Member
There is probably a number of reasons ofcourse but i think one of the main ones is that in europe our wide men have so much space to attack. It is much easier to find passes either sideways or straight through to the forward(last night one simple ball forward in on goal) in Scotland teams quickly block them off and even if they go past one man there is still at least half a dozen defenders around the box. A lot of our tactics come down to the wingers or wide men, if they dont perform or see plenty of the ball we struggle.
Hurricane Run
Well-Known Member
In my opinion our issue is plain to see. We dont commit enough players into the box when attacking and the focal point of our attack (Dessers) is incapable of keeping possession and letting runners get past him.
It effectively means we are frequently overwhelmed by defenders in attacking positions. If you watch our games back you will frequently see we are 4v8 in numbers when in promising attacking positions - compare that to Europe and the ratio drops to 4v4/5/6. Its a numbers game in essence.
i think it can be remedied with a striker who can hold it up and let more players from deep get up in support and a tweak in tactics.
It effectively means we are frequently overwhelmed by defenders in attacking positions. If you watch our games back you will frequently see we are 4v8 in numbers when in promising attacking positions - compare that to Europe and the ratio drops to 4v4/5/6. Its a numbers game in essence.
i think it can be remedied with a striker who can hold it up and let more players from deep get up in support and a tweak in tactics.
Fothyman
Well-Known Member
We need to start spl games at 100mph and go all out for an early goal. Do this before the opposition have managed to settle into their defensive structure and grab an early goal or two then it completely destroys their game plan.
Dundee utd and Motherwell were both terrible and we fully deserved our wins. Utd barely got into our half let alone our box but scored from the one chance they had in the first half.
We struggle against teams going straight for it at the start too ,- Celtic and Aberdeen both did this to us. We aren't used to teams doing this and our defence often crumbles under this pressure.
Dundee utd and Motherwell were both terrible and we fully deserved our wins. Utd barely got into our half let alone our box but scored from the one chance they had in the first half.
We struggle against teams going straight for it at the start too ,- Celtic and Aberdeen both did this to us. We aren't used to teams doing this and our defence often crumbles under this pressure.
SubGenius
Well-Known Member
To me the key to breaking down low block domestic opponents is playing quick one-twos and triangles in and around the box.
You saw it last weekend where Danilo and Cerny linked up for the equaliser and then again for the one that was ruled out for offside. They did similarly against Motherwell in the cup semi.
Getting to the byeline and cutting the ball back is also something we don’t seem to do enough. I’d like to see Cerny use his right foot more because he’s actually pretty decent on it. Bajrami on the opposite side doesn’t have the pace or strength to do likewise however.
If Clement doesn’t find a way to start beating these sides more regularly and more comfortably he’s still likely to find himself out of a job.
You'd be lying if you said there wasn't criticism of Walter's football at times though.
Can I ask what this is based on? Saying they wouldn't get a result against Aberdeen?
Last night was a great result whether they had some players missing or not. But there is absolutely nothing that would point to Aberdeen beating them.
In the last week on here I've read people downplaying every result we've had in Europe this season. From this, to Malmo being a top 6 SPFL team to Olympiakos just "no being that good". It's bizarre.
Because it’s not the manager it’s the millions a year the club is wasting on players who aren’t good enough or don’t contribute through injury amongst other wider issues at the club that are nothing to do with the manager that will hopefully now be addressed with the senior positions now being filled.
Shift some of these guys out, free up wages to have nice things that other teams have like a left winger and depth in the wide positions in general allowing us to maybe play our multi million pound signings in position and not filling in elsewhere then we might have a better time breaking down teams that are just trying to get a point.
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I might be with you on Clement is the. Man but for his substitutions based I feel purely on sports science. I have no doubt had Sterling and Cerny stayed in the park it would have been 6 or more. It's crazy to have any negativity on such a great win but let's face it Nice we're there for the taking and we should have reached then up. Once Tav came in (not a bash on him) we went back to trying to use him constantly on attack. In regards the main point, it's clear these players are suited to more freedom of movement and open play. The SPFL simoon doesn't suit many. We almost need a coach for euros and a coach fir the league
attack-hands
Well-Known Member
Tale as old as time, Playing in Europe is glamorous and teams are more open and give us more time on the ball and the oppertunity to do patient build up
Playing in Scotland the opposition, no matter their quality raise their game, and play frustrating football. no matter the gulf in quality it takes a mentality of rolling up the sleeves and getting dug in, then letting our quality give us the edge. But for years our players have never seemed keen to do the first bit and graft in less glamorous scottish ties, it comes from the Captain down im afraid.
Playing in Scotland the opposition, no matter their quality raise their game, and play frustrating football. no matter the gulf in quality it takes a mentality of rolling up the sleeves and getting dug in, then letting our quality give us the edge. But for years our players have never seemed keen to do the first bit and graft in less glamorous scottish ties, it comes from the Captain down im afraid.
Angus Young
Well-Known Member
In many ways we are strange, strange team.
The only way I cam rationalise it is by comparing it to Le Guen.
The only way I cam rationalise it is by comparing it to Le Guen.
BSPECIAL
Well-Known Member
Wonder what we'll get on Sunday. Back to the usual crap probably. Hope not. It's been murder polis watching our domestic games.
ThreestripeS
Well-Known Member
Clement isn't suited to our league I'm more confident playing spurs than I am St johnstone at the weekend.
Belgium would suit him perfectly
Belgium would suit him perfectly
Der_Metzgermeister
Well-Known Member
Echoing what many have already said:
- Domestic teams raise their game against us.
- Most league teams have 10 behind the ball for 90 minutes.
- Pressure on the players isn't the same as a league game.
Dado_Prso_9
Well-Known Member
We can because last night they were. Did that defence look like a top 8 side? They were riddled with injuries.
Bigbluebear
Well-Known Member
Do you know how average age works?
They started 2 19 year old and average age was 24.2. Ours was 25.4
Replacing a 26 year old with 19 year old does not then make the average age 19.
Why the desperation to downplay a tremendous result?
They had 3 19 year old on the park at that point
Dado_Prso_9
Well-Known Member
You take a freak result as a sign of sudden improvement. I’ll stay rooted in reality thanks.
We are dung. So were they. We were just the better looking of the two.
Edit: yes I know how average age works, I just took Rory’s line from commentary as gospel. Regardless, last night was two rotten football teams playing one another and one made the other look superb.
Get Clement out.
Rt. Hon. Bearman
Well-Known Member
If we had beaten Celtic and Aberdeen, then we'd currently be in 2nd place and just 2 points behind the filth - even if we had still dropped points to Hearts, Kilmarnock and Dundee United.
Fine margins.
Spart7
Well-Known Member
We clearly aren't 'rotten' though, otherwise we simply would not be top 8 after 5 games with the draw we had and unbeaten in 7 European away games having scored 7 goals in the 3 most recent away games. We are also the 3rd top scorers in the competition, 1 goal from first.
Domestically we have been rotten to date, particularly away from home, and
absolutely no-one in their right mind could argue otherwise but you are equating the domestic and European games as being the same and we are simply beating cannon fodder because we are slightly less rotten. That's as big a nonsense take on it as someone defending our domestic form imo. 3 wins, a draw and a defeat from 5 European games against 2 French teams, the current and soon to be new Swedish champions and Romanians who currently have the same record and points total as us from their 5 games tells an entirely different story to the one you are.
It's not a freak result in Europe though.
AlbertaBlue
Well-Known Member
At the same time these same Scottish teams would get pumped in Europe. It's almost surreal.
Without wanting to blame the ref for us dropping points on Saturday, we were rotten, especially first half.
I would ask any of our fans though, if they are gluttons for punishment, to watch the game from after we scored and had momentum. Dundee United had a ridiculous amount of players go down for lengthy spells aided and abetted by the ref, it ended our momentum instantly. A player gets hit in the ankle, holds his head and the game gets stopped. It's not right and we see it week in and week out in Scotland.
so these european teams are so much better than our SPL rivals who we cant beat , let alone beat 4-0?
Yes, they are obviously a lot better. Is that a serious question?
Styles make fights as the old saying goes.
We look far better in Europe than domestically, mainly down to styles we face.
Killer Bob
Well-Known Member
I'm not saying Nice were good. I'm saying our recent record in Europe shows we can consistenly compete and get points in most games.
SubGenius
Well-Known Member
I’d strongly fancy that same Nice team to horse Aberdeen, and there’s no chance Celtic are sticking four away goals past anyone in Europe given their track record.
Other Scottish sides are almost universally hopeless on the continent where teams from the Faeroes and the league of Wales are more their level.
Weirdly, I’d imagine Nice would have little trouble beating St. Johnstone on Sunday.
I do wonder if we’ve begun to doubt ourselves against the jobber SPFL sides, i.e. we’re going into these matches already lacking the belief that we’ll win.
Ultimately that’s on the manager I’m afraid, but it should be any easy fix - just stop giving them as much respect and attack them without mercy.
We have far better players. It shouldn’t be anything like the slog it’s been.
Think the better spaces we have in European games helps us do better there. Also against Nice, Igmane was s a big difference in how he played compared to Dessers. Held the ball up welll at times, won a few headers and scored a couple. But team just seems to responde better in Europe. Domestically I think our style just isn’t urgent or determined enough.
For all the Nice result was magic and we had some really good spells, there was still head in hands moments, both defensively and offensively. So still plenty of issues there.
The sad thing is I don’t know what to expect tomorrow. Will the Nice result be the catalyst for a storming performance and a resurgent Rangers or will we see the turgid, slow boring, wondering if we will score performance we’ve seen to much of this season already.
For all the Nice result was magic and we had some really good spells, there was still head in hands moments, both defensively and offensively. So still plenty of issues there.
The sad thing is I don’t know what to expect tomorrow. Will the Nice result be the catalyst for a storming performance and a resurgent Rangers or will we see the turgid, slow boring, wondering if we will score performance we’ve seen to much of this season already.
High park Loyal
Active Member
Going by that thinking, old firm games will be a doddle
