FARE is anything but

Do people really think a group just makes up songs being sung and UEFA punish clubs on the strength of that?
 
blueballs said:
You know, it's not that I'm disagreeing with things your saying....its just seeming like your taking the high ground and being too dismissive of others points.

You say we need to be big boys, and that's true. It's the supports fault. We are to blame.

But you also sarcastically ask if the suggestion is we keep singing till Celtic gets punished. Of course not. I mean, seriously?

The suggestion is two fold response, which where we differ. It's not the case we need to get our house in order and then go far FARE; if you concede theres something to go for, it's done simultaneously.

Yes, we need to be big boys and big boys can therefore sort out the problem. So the club and fans accept fault and fix it. At the SAME time we publicly call out the unparalleled fixation FARE have with us.

We need to be better, but also wiser to what's going on
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There are two issues;
  1. If we continue to sing songs that break UEFA rules the club will receive further punishment which could eventually lead to expulsion from UEFA competitions.
  2. FARE don't seem to report cel'ic for the sectarian singing, offensive banners etc.
As a Rangers fan you tell me which of the two issues are more pressing?

On their website FARE list all the incidents that they have reported, they are not solely targeting Rangers. They don't seem to be reporting cel'ic which is an issue however it is no where near as pressing an issue for us as the first one.

I apologise for the sarcastic tone, it's just that others seem to be suggesting that until there's parity then we shouldn't be budging, an attitude that will harm Rangers and it's frustrating AF.

I couldn't give a f*ck about the moral high ground, I know it's a stick to beat us and cel'ic fans or anyone else probably aren't really offended but I care passionately about Rangers and don't want us punished for action of some of our fans.
 
Captain Cutlass said:
I agree completely but there's only one way to help quell the appetite to discredit us and that's to clean up our act as best we can.
To just say that no matter what we do we'll still be clobbered so we might just as well carry isn't any kind of solution at all.
I'm not saying you're suggesting "just carrying on as before" but that's the way your argument could be misconstrued.
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You’re absolutely correct. That’s absolutely the only way to go forward. We’ve been told certain things cannot be sung and we absolutely must heed that. Some people might not like it, but they must heed it.

If what I’ve said has been misunderstood then I’ll happily clarify. I don’t advocate carrying on as before, I feel absolutely no attachment to the word 19th Century Terrorist. None whatsoever. It’s not a fight I’m interested in. It must stop now. Finally.

But that won’t stop the attacks on us. Doesn’t mean it’s not the right way to move forward, but it will not stop us being attacked.
 
AriseSirWalter said:
There are two issues;
  1. If we continue to sing songs that break UEFA rules the club will receive further punishment which could eventually lead to expulsion from UEFA competitions.
  2. FARE don't seem to report cel'ic for the sectarian singing, offensive banners etc.
As a Rangers fan you tell me which of the two issues are more pressing?

On their website FARE list all the incidents that they have reported, they are not solely targeting Rangers. They don't seem to be reporting cel'ic which is an issue however it is no where near as pressing an issue for us as the first one.

I apologise for the sarcastic tone, it's just that others seem to be suggesting that until there's parity then we shouldn't be budging, an attitude that will harm Rangers and it's frustrating AF.

I couldn't give a f*ck about the moral high ground, I know it's a stick to beat us and cel'ic fans or anyone else probably aren't really offended but I care passionately about Rangers and don't want us punished for action of some of our fans.
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Fair comments mate
 
Coda said:
You’re missing the point. Something being banned regardless of content should have alarm bells ringing. If we changed TBB to a family friendly version, UEFA would still ban it. Can you not see the issue there and how that opens a can of worms for other songs?
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I agree it's unfair but I guess it's the history of the song that means it would be difficult to tell if people are singing the family friendly version or banned content. But I don't see how WATP or GSTQ would fall foul of that.

It is their rules, we either have to abide by them or say no, we're no entering your competition because we don't agree with the rules.
 
How can you be racist against someone who looks exactly like you (if you discount the grime on the neck, and the eyes too close together and propensity too copulate with family members).
 
Steve Snedden said:
Genuine questions:

1) What gives them their legitimacy?
2) How do we highlight and combat their obvious bias?
3) Is it possible to crowdsource the neccesary skills and recources to set up an alternative?
4) How do we exhert greater influence in UEFA?

We need to start thinking longer term and widening our sphere of influence.

This can all be done in tandem with stopping singing the F word.
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If they're as biased as they appear to be, the club and politicians will have to deal with it. We'll have to do our bit and not give them anything else to come after us for.
 
I've sent an email to Fare .org asking questions about their selection criteria, I'm not expecting a reply, however I'm sure they receive state funding so if so the next step will be FOI request. The fact that they protect the anonymity of their reporters from everyone...including Uefa is extremely disturbing and obviously potentially open to abuse by discriminatory reporting.
 
Just had a whisper that there are moves to raise questions in the Scottish Parliament to include songs that highlight celtc peado cover-up as being discriminatory on the back of this uefa charge...if so this may explain the real reason behind this charge
 
Fare have to be called out on this. Why is it only one club in glasgow who get cited? Much the same as the compliance officer. When we know the other side of the city sing songs glorifying the murder of British subjects or the death of 66 fans in a disaster
The scum supposedly hate us but choose to live amongst us. The scum are more proactive when they hear a song from The Rangers support which i think most of will agree is well out of date and nothing to do with modern times.
lets get in there early and complain to the same people the scum are complaining to and see what happens. If they are not interested at least we have tried and maybe someone will take notice.
I have been saying it for years the scum shout louder and longer and get noticed because of it.
 
Coda said:
Don’t be so naive.

We could sing nursery rhymes and they’d be scrutinising us to the nth degree.

An organisation run by Celtic supporters shouldn’t be scrutinising anything we do, guilty or not.
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This is the truth of it.
 
AriseSirWalter said:
GSTQ is a national anthem, there is no way UEFA is going to punish us for singing that and WATP isn't against anyone it's a song that's taken from the line 'We are the people who follow the boys in blue' the correct lyrics to Hello Hello (A Goal, A Goal). It's deranged cel'ic fans and internet bampots that claim these songs as offensive not UEFA.

The Club, I'm sure, would defend any charges brought against us for singing those songs or any other non-offensive songs. But there is no defending sectarian singing and pointing to others who also sing sectarian songs is a piss poor defence.

We're big boys, time to put our big boy pants on accept responsibility for the trouble we've brought to our Club's door and make sure that we fix it. Once we've done that we can tackle the issue of FARE.
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I don’t think the club would defend anything. There is zero track record of standing up for the club or support.
 
AriseSirWalter said:
They come because we sing!

The Billy Boys
Super Rangers
Build my gallows - add ons
Andy Halliday hates the pope and IRA
Tiffany - we hate catholics
F*ck even Simply the Best has add-ons.

If FARE are waging war against us it's because we give them so much ammunition.
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People shouldn’t sing these songs. No ifs buts or maybes. If fans sing the songs they give Fare and those that hate the club exactly what they want.

If you genuinely think Fare only come after us ‘because we give them so much ammunition’ though mate you’re naive in the extreme. They’ve been after us simply ‘because’ we exist. Every game since we returned to Europe they’ve been sniffing around. From the first minute of the first leg of the first tie. Any other club had that level of scrutiny?

It’s possible to say both that the fans who gave Fare what they wanted are simpletons who should hang their heads in shame and also that Fare is operating with an agenda. The two things aren’t mutually exclusive.
 
blueballs said:
As a support, were to blame for singing the songs, keeping the add ons and ignoring previous warnings.

As a club, we should question why FARE seek to come to every Rangers European match but not have the same interest for any other team.

As much as the first points true and we shouldn't kid ourselves nor deny the fact, it's just as true this organisation has an agenda against Rangers which is easily pursued under the guise of being arbiter on suitable songs. Do we need to allow them into Ibrox (cant think why we do) and if not suggest they don't come back till parity of visits is shared across the European competitions
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We do need to allow them in but agree with the rest of your post although I would just say it is a section of the support that sing this self-harming nonsense- a very small section at that.
 
DoubleWhopper said:
The BBC article clearly states reported for "Racism - which includes sectarian singing".

In all the debate on the message board today, I'm perplexed that nobody is questioning the use of that word Racism.

We simply can't have that tag labelled against us without it being clarified.
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Under uefa rules racism and sectarianism fall under the same thing. We didnt get done for both separately
 
Jelle1880 said:
Under uefa rules racism and sectarianism fall under the same thing. We didnt get done for both separately
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As a Rangers fan I find the charge itself sectarian and the body who provided the evidence themselves discriminatory, I've gone back to UEFA and also FARE with proof of my reasons why which if ignored may well be grounds for religious discrimination. It is time for us Rangers fans to shout against religious bigotry for ludicrous discrimination like this.
 
We need to go behind enemy lines now. We need to record the tramps and start submitting their behaviour. FARE won't as Pia Power's missus is a ST holder at the Stydome. In fact, we need to clarify if HE goes there also.
 
If FARE sent a eh.. "Representative " to a C****c game. They would 100% hear sectarian singing/comments
 
I think anyone can become a member of FARE and report abuse, amongst the many other things you can do as a member.

I'd hazard a guess that there's a few celtic fans signed up as members and reporting us.

That said, we are actually singing sectarian songs which we've been told are banned and unacceptable for years. You break the rules, you get punished, nothing new.
 
ao2 said:
I'm not defending the songs nor those who sing them. It's bloody stupid, reckless even, and it's cost us big this time. But the club should be asking questions about the "impartiality" of FARE and the well-known mentally challenged sympathies of that organisation. It's like a bunch of Liverpool fans preying on Manchester United or Barcelona on Real Madrid. None of those clubs would let it go without pointing it out yet Rangers take it every time. They do us up like a kipper and it's high time the club was questioning FARE and why they only seem to exist to do Rangers and no one else.
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We aren’t in the position to start finger pointing. That’s a poor response. We need to grow up and change as a support. Once our conduct is a good example of a modern football club then we can be the ones asking questions.
 
AriseSirWalter said:
There are two issues;
  1. If we continue to sing songs that break UEFA rules the club will receive further punishment which could eventually lead to expulsion from UEFA competitions.
  2. FARE don't seem to report cel'ic for the sectarian singing, offensive banners etc.
As a Rangers fan you tell me which of the two issues are more pressing?

On their website FARE list all the incidents that they have reported, they are not solely targeting Rangers. They don't seem to be reporting cel'ic which is an issue however it is no where near as pressing an issue for us as the first one.

I apologise for the sarcastic tone, it's just that others seem to be suggesting that until there's parity then we shouldn't be budging, an attitude that will harm Rangers and it's frustrating AF.

I couldn't give a f*ck about the moral high ground, I know it's a stick to beat us and cel'ic fans or anyone else probably aren't really offended but I care passionately about Rangers and don't want us punished for action of some of our fans.
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This may answer your question:

https://www.scotsman.com/news-2-15012/sectarian-row-chief-married-to-celtic-fan-1-1587410
 
PalefaceRedskin said:
People shouldn’t sing these songs. No ifs buts or maybes. If fans sing the songs they give Fare and those that hate the club exactly what they want.

If you genuinely think Fare only come after us ‘because we give them so much ammunition’ though mate you’re naive in the extreme. They’ve been after us simply ‘because’ we exist. Every game since we returned to Europe they’ve been sniffing around. From the first minute of the first leg of the first tie. Any other club had that level of scrutiny?

It’s possible to say both that the fans who gave Fare what they wanted are simpletons who should hang their heads in shame and also that Fare is operating with an agenda. The two things aren’t mutually exclusive.
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I agree with that but the point I’m making is that regardless of the fact we seem to be under greater scrutiny we must comply with UEFA rules, whether or not we agree with them.

We cannot be sidetracked by the fact FARE is anything but. That’s for another day. They aren’t making it up, sectarian songs are sung and we as a support must take responsibility for that.
 
punksnotdead said:
I agree with you regarding the songs, we need to cut it out. But the other mob sing songs about terrorists, phuck the Queen, and wave offensive banners. Why are they not waging war on them?
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Ifor one don't care what their supporters sing we should be rising above such crap as plumbing the depths of the green brigade. If we get our house in order then we can expose them for what they are.
 
Coda said:
Don’t be so naive.

We could sing nursery rhymes and they’d be scrutinising us to the nth degree.

An organisation run by Celtic supporters shouldn’t be scrutinising anything we do, guilty or not.
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Penny Arcade,Hokey Cokey and our famous 'Bouncy Bouncy" have all been targetted at one time or another.
Nothing is safe from the rancid bastards.
 
AriseSirWalter said:
I agree with that but the point I’m making is that regardless of the fact we seem to be under greater scrutiny we must comply with UEFA rules, whether or not we agree with them.

We cannot be sidetracked by the fact FARE is anything but. That’s for another day. They aren’t making it up, sectarian songs are sung and we as a support must take responsibility for that.
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I follow what you’re saying and I think we’re probably close in our positions. The simpletons giving haters what they want need to take responsibility for their own actions or the club will suffer even more.

That said, the fact that Fare could go to a couple of hundred different grounds and catch chanting which comes within the UEFA definition but choose not to do so is something that needs to be questioned by the club just as a matter of fairness. The clear disparity in treatment is also part of the problem in reaching some of the idiots causing us this grief. They won’t stop if they see others being given a free pass.

The club was spot on yesterday with the statement. It was clear and focussed on condemning the songs which was right. To have raised other issues would have diluted the message. In my opinion though, they now also have to show the support that they are addressing with UEFA and Fare why other clubs with fans breaching the regulations aren’t being pursued. Specifically, they also need to obtain confirmation that ‘orange whatever’ will be treated the same way as the ‘19th Century Terrorist whatever’ and that ‘hun’ breaches the regs.
 
jackstar said:
Ifor one don't care what their supporters sing we should be rising above such crap as plumbing the depths of the green brigade. If we get our house in order then we can expose them for what they are.
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I really don't care what their fans sing either but when one club is being vilified and another has cart blanch to do as they want then that's got to be a problem that needs sorting don't you think. I'm all for sorting out our song book but parity is a must.
 
Plain and simple it was our own fault, no dispute, but there can be no question that Fare are targeting Rangers on purpose, someone within the organisation has a hatred for our club and is trying to harm us at every European game and the truth is no matter what songs we stop singing they will find another way to attack and report us.
A few years ago we as a support stopped singing TBB, what happened? they attacked us for singing the hokey cokey, we got attacked for singing the so called famine song so we changed the words, my point is that we will always be under scrutiny from Fare until such time as the Board open their mouths and demand answers about Fare and their bias against us.
 
Steve Snedden said:
Genuine questions:

1) What gives them their legitimacy?
2) How do we highlight and combat their obvious bias?
3) Is it possible to crowdsource the neccesary skills and recources to set up an alternative?
4) How do we exhert greater influence in UEFA?

We need to start thinking longer term and widening our sphere of influence.

This can all be done in tandem with stopping singing the F word.
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1) Affiliation to UEFA.
2) We as a support can see it, Stevie Wonder could see it (maybe they'll report me for thay comment too). It's up to the club to take this battle on, they're the only ones with any real clout.
3) Possibly but it would be a huge ask and organisation would likely end up too fractured.
4) No idea, that's the million dollar question. Sadly as huge a club as we are, Scottish football is so far down the pecking order now it would be akin to a partizan or red star Belgrade demanding more influence.
 
The bottom line is ,the Rangers board should be asking questions of Fare to UEFA. There is evidence that fare have an agenda and it should be used.
 
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