Robbie Wilson
Well-Known Member
Patience mate.
Finally we can nail the myth of 'we just one or two' added
- Thread starter Earl of Leven
- Start date
chosen few
Well-Known Member
Loan players ie players not good enough to play for there parent club are not going to get the job done ,, yet they are mainstays of our team
omegaman
Well-Known Member
I think both Davis and Defoe will remain too.
I don’t see the point in keeping Kent though, even on loan, given the number of players we have in that position already and the argument that we actually need better anyway.
If Kent becomes representative of the sort of ‘quality signings’ we’re looking to make this summer, I’ll be worried, and I say that as someone who thinks he’s been a decent player for us this season.
Drumchapel-Bear
Well-Known Member
People were touting Kent as an 8m player on here a few weeks ago. It really is a nut house
Personally I'd keep him. He's 10x the player of Candeias.
Candieas and Kent? Neither will do if 4-3-3 is to work. They offer very little in terms of goals and assists.
I wouldnt completely discount loan signings. They have served us very well in the past (Wattereus, Vignal, Davis Mk1 etc). The downside with loans is that they are only worthwhile if you win something with them. If your loan signings dont win you trophies then they are counterproductive, in the sense that you are (a) paying them wages and (b) hindering the development of your own young players at the same time. So it is a poor long term strategy
The worrying thing is that we also have 18 players on loan to other clubs that are similarly not good enough to play for their parent club (ie Rangers). All of these loan deals conclude on May 31st.
anyone that says only a couple of players we need doesn't watch us playing simple as that
You could add Laudrup and Mols and we'd be 2nd next season. The whole first team needs looked at re pace, strength, intensity etc.
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Coda
Well-Known Member
Absolute bollocks, but then you know that.
omegaman
Well-Known Member
People were touting Kent as an 8m player on here a few weeks ago. It really is a nut house
Personally I'd keep him. He's 10x the player of Candeias.
Thing is, even if we get him on loan again, that’s another wage he’s taking up so it makes it more difficult for Gerrard to justify to the board that he needs even more funds for that area of the squad given the amount of players we have there already.
If I was the board my response would be, “Fine, but you need to sell first.”
Now folk will immediately say we should offload Candeias, but I doubt we will.
We need better, sure, but despite the criticism on here - a lot of which is justified - he’s been one of our most consistent players this season and I’d be surprised if Gerrard was looking to offload him.
So it seems easier to me to just forget about bringing Kent back in any capacity given he’s only on loan anyway and instead look to bring in a player that on paper at least offers us more, one that’s likely to get us around 15 goals a season.
Drumchapel-Bear
Well-Known Member
Not bringing Kent back to keep an inferior player in Candeias makes no sense to me. But it's all about opinions.
Kent has the talent and ability to add goals to his game with good coaching.
Commentator
Well-Known Member
If Morelos(translator and buddy) and Tavernier(minder) go then there is no reason to keep DC.
Valley Bluenose
RTV? Completed it mate!
Despite all the to-ing and fro-ing on this thread I think, in general, most agree that 2-3 additions of 'superior quality' will make a massive difference. That's what the Manager has basically said as well so there isn't too much to argue about.
No getting away from the fact though that several other players in and around the squad will need to be moved on, upgraded, replaced - however you want to describe it -as well. We've loan players leaving - and others returning - and we've the likes of McAuley and, perhaps, Davis not being offered new contracts. In that context, we've already started with Jones, Hastie and Shinnie almost certainly joining. So, there's three new men straight away before we even start thinking about the 'quality' signings. We will be close to 10 new players this Summer again. That's still way down on last year thankfully.
No getting away from the fact though that several other players in and around the squad will need to be moved on, upgraded, replaced - however you want to describe it -as well. We've loan players leaving - and others returning - and we've the likes of McAuley and, perhaps, Davis not being offered new contracts. In that context, we've already started with Jones, Hastie and Shinnie almost certainly joining. So, there's three new men straight away before we even start thinking about the 'quality' signings. We will be close to 10 new players this Summer again. That's still way down on last year thankfully.
Zizou
Well-Known Member
Hate to tell you but we ain’t the biggest team in the uk,get real.
Zizou
Well-Known Member
I agree with what your saying but I feel he will start either jack or Kamara therefore we might only get 3 new midfielders.
Grei9
Well-Known Member
2/3 match winners is clearly all we lack. We are not losing games by massive margins.
We are more often than not a match winner away From getting games over the line. A winger who scores goals a CM that scores goals and a battering ram to go direct and I think you would see us turn most of our draws into wins.
It’s not sensational enough for a lot of people on here but we aren’t miles away from winning things imo
We are more often than not a match winner away From getting games over the line. A winger who scores goals a CM that scores goals and a battering ram to go direct and I think you would see us turn most of our draws into wins.
It’s not sensational enough for a lot of people on here but we aren’t miles away from winning things imo
omegaman
Well-Known Member
It’s about the bottom line though.
To bring Kent in permanently will cost around £2m minimum, quite possibly more.
He could quite conceivably develop into the player we need over time, but we need someone to be that player come August.
I think it highly unlikely we bring him in and buy a better player on top without offloading other players first, and given the likely candidates - Candeias, Grezda - I’m not sure that’s going to happen.
Drumchapel-Bear
Well-Known Member
Gerrard is very big on players he ''trusts'' etc and has already been on record as saying he will get rid of players who don't do the job for him. I know that's easier said than done but he'll be looking to move players like Barisic and Grezda on (imo). Kent is certainly one of the players he trusts. We'll absolutely be looking to keep him.
Coda
Well-Known Member
The stats I posted in the other thread regarding Kent and Candeias shows they're 9 goals and 3 assists short of the tims wide players. I really like both players, but I don't see Candeias improving on those numbers (although i'd still keep him, as he's an excellent squad player) and Kent will need to up the numbers. I'd still be looking so sign a more complete winger in July who is going to guarantee us 10 goals and 10 assists a season, which give or take, will be Forrest's numbers by the end of the season.
omegaman
Well-Known Member
I really doubt Gerrard will see it that way given he picks him every week.
I’d say it’s more likely he’ll stay as backup and we’ll add one more hopefully better quality player for the wide front three slots.
Unless we're getting exceptional young talents like Harry Wilson or Mason Mount,there's really no point in loans imo-I'm all for them if utilised for that standard of player,but if not let's just not bother-I'd rather we tried to bleed some of the youths tbh instead.
Commentator
Well-Known Member
Let's see, I think he's also picked for ..... let's call it the balance of the team.
I'd suggest if Kent comes back it should be as a loan,I don't think we should be paying the money that Liverpool will likely want for him-there's no value there imo.
As an example I think we could probably get Petterson for a lot less who's already been scoring and assisting on a regular basis for his team,given he's in the last year of his deal and wouldn't be on huge wages.
Valley Bluenose
RTV? Completed it mate!
If he can recover from injury and regain his form then Jamie Murphy is that man. May not be as 'dynamic' as Kent or as hard-working defensively as Candeias but he gets his share of assists and has an excellent eye for goal as he drifts in and across the 18 yard line.
omegaman
Well-Known Member
I’ve said this several times on here but, we’re overloaded with wide players as it is yet we still clearly need better.
Adding Kent, either on loan or permanently, reduces the number of new players we’ll be able to bring in for that department unless we offload others.
He clearly rates Candeias because he picks him every week so personally I think he’ll stay while cutting our losses with Grezda, as tempting as that may seem at this moment in time, is also unlikely, IMO, as he hasn’t really been fit long enough for us to see if there is actually anything better to come from him.
We obviously felt he had something about him to stump up circa 2 million quid for his services, and while some players just don’t work out, binning him so early would be an admission that the judgment used to bring him in might be a bit flawed.
What I’m getting at is, I have a suspicion that we may be disappointed by what we actually get in terms of these quality players we keep hearing about.
omegaman
Well-Known Member
I like Kent. If the price was right I think we could develop him into a player that will bring a very healthy return, but we need someone that’s more or less the finished article come the end of this summer, so if we’re looking to spend upwards of £2m on him, I’d sooner we looked elsewhere, if I’m being brutally honest.
bornabluenose
Well-Known Member
However many we bring in , I would say at least 4 are required , they need to be of a quality that surpasses that of which we already have .
The irony is that we will probably have to offload our most effective player to fund it.
The irony is that we will probably have to offload our most effective player to fund it.
Fuzzy Dunlop
Well-Known Member
Thank you, saved me typing this. People are going overboard after recent results
legalbeagle
Well-Known Member
It really doesn’t take all that much extra in terms of quality.
People dramatically underestimate what 2 or 3 class acts can do to raise the confidence and performance level of the remainder of a squad / team.
People dramatically underestimate what 2 or 3 class acts can do to raise the confidence and performance level of the remainder of a squad / team.
drgriffen
Well-Known Member
And just to annoy you with another South American.
I was raving about Reynoso* for ages on the Argieball thread when he was at Talleres. Now he is at Boca his value automatically goes up. As you say, the talent is there it is all about getting in early.* I will add I get plenty wrong as well.
PalefaceRedskin
Well-Known Member
And just to annoy you with another South American.
* I will add I get plenty wrong as well.
I’ll take some of that.
Valley Bluenose
RTV? Completed it mate!
And just to annoy you with another South American.
* I will add I get plenty wrong as well.
All very positive - and I enjoy the clips.
However, as we've seen with our Mexicans - and with the likes of Amato and Rozental if we go back further - shopping in that neck of the woods doesn't always work. At least with Morelos we knew he was a player who had made the move to Europe, settled, and started scoring goals. Like all transfers, still a risk - but the available evidence suggested the risk was reduced.I've criticised areas of Murphy's game before but for me one thing about him I can't deny is he poses more of a goal and assists threat-I just hope he can come back from that rotten injury well and get up to speed for next season for us.
I fear Grezda,Jones and Middleton may not be able to be relied upon in the wide left area but would be delighted to be proven wrong-Grezda in particular had a very good reputation back in Croatia according to some of the locals I spoke to there anyway.And Middleton is still young,so maybe time will help him progress.
Jones I just don't see at all though,in any shape or form.
I'm old enough to remember one Gabriel Amato,a very talented striker-who just couldn't adjust to Scottish football-and I'm afraid it might just be too much of a culture shock for most form that part of the world.All very positive - and I enjoy the clips.
omegaman
Well-Known Member
I do agree with that actually.
Part of the issue we have at the moment is that opponents really only need worry about Morelos.
If we add another couple of players of that calibre - a winger and an attacking mid for example - suddenly there's a 200% increase in the amount of players we have on the park capable of winning games with a moment or two of magic.
That's what we lack.
drgriffen
Well-Known Member
All very positive - and I enjoy the clips.
Undoubtedly, there is a risk, as there is with all transfers, but we have to decide if it is a risk worth taking. We struggle to break teams down who play the low block. Where can we get players, at an affordable price, who can do that? I'm just highlighting a Continent where we can - others can suggest players closer to home. I will add, there a number of others who I could have highlighted that I've spoken about previously on the Argieball/Libertadores threads.
I disagree slightly about the examples you cited.
We signed Amato from Mallorca and I wouldn't say he failed. Rozental's failure was all down to his injury. The Mexicans were ridiculous signings and highlight why we should have a DoF.
stonewall Jackson
Well-Known Member
The loss of Murphy has been a severe blow this season. He is the type of player who can unlock the bus parking teams who have denied us points this season.
Drumchapel-Bear
Well-Known Member
Exactly. Look at the impact Van Dyke has had on Liverpool by himself pretty much.
I know we aren't getting a player of that quality but it's all relative.
Valley Bluenose
RTV? Completed it mate!
Undoubtedly, there is a risk, as there is with all transfers, but we have to decide if it is a risk worth taking. We struggle to break teams down who play the low block. Where can we get players, at an affordable price, who can do that? I'm just highlighting a Continent where we can - others can suggest players closer to home. I will add, there a number of others who I could have highlighted that I've spoken about previously on the Argieball/Libertadores threads.
I disagree slightly about the examples you cited.
Can't disagree with too much you say, though whilst Amato was a wonderfully skillful player I think he got something like 13 goals in 45 appearances and we were looking for lots more. Subjective whether that's success of failure I suppose.
These days, when every penny is a prisoner, I'd like to think we'd minimise the 'gambles' - particularly after Caixinha's miserable Mexican record. Seems we've gone for Croatia this time around. Eek!
With respect mate,Amato played in a very good team which created many chances for him,yet he had a goal to game ratio of less than one in three-and he didn't create a lot either iirc-and I never missed a home game back then.Undoubtedly, there is a risk, as there is with all transfers, but we have to decide if it is a risk worth taking. We struggle to break teams down who play the low block. Where can we get players, at an affordable price, who can do that? I'm just highlighting a Continent where we can - others can suggest players closer to home. I will add, there a number of others who I could have highlighted that I've spoken about previously on the Argieball/Libertadores threads.
I disagree slightly about the examples you cited.
Rozenthal was a fraudster-he spent more time drinking budweiser and playing pool than he did trying to get fit,as I and mates seen him on many an occasion in town having a rare old time while being paid a fortune.
drgriffen
Well-Known Member
I never said Amato was a glowing success, but I don't think he failed.
His goalscoring record isn't brilliant, but I never saw him as an out and out goalscorer. When he was sold we got most of our money back so I don't see the overall deal being a failure.Rozental had a serious knee injury and his return was hampered (for want of a better word) by the operation not being a success. As for the drinking: it shouldn't have happened but I could list a number of players who shouldn't have been out drinking as much as they did.
We'll agree to disagree,but Amato struggled to adjust mate while surrounded with a successful team around him-the pace of the game was too much for him if you ask most bears who attended a lot of games at that time(late nineties iirc).I never said Amato was a glowing success, but I don't think he failed.
Rozental had a serious knee injury and his return was hampered (for want of a better word) by the operation not being a success. As for the drinking: it shouldn't have happened but I could list a number of players who shouldn't have been out drinking as much as they did.
Rozenthal I don't buy the excuses one bit,he was a guy with talent that was too busy drinking and feeding his overweight face to give a shite.
Ter
Well-Known Member
I think we're only really missing a couple of things to be good enough to challenge for the league.
1. Player(s) that can score goals from outside the box regularly
2. Player(s) with a bit more quality in the final third
3. Threats from set pieces
If we have players who can score from outside the box then teams can put as many players behind the ball as they like. Eventually we'll make the breakthrough.
Similarly if we have a bit more quality in the final third to make that killer pass or beat a couple of players then it creates space for others to get chances.
And we're not good enough from set pieces. We get a lot of corners and free kicks that rarely threaten. Katic scored a couple of important goals from corners earlier in the season for example and we've missed that sort of threat.
Not too concerned with the defence overall but silly mistakes need to be cut out at times.
If we can address those issues then a lot of those draws will be turned into wins and some severe pumpings will be dished out as well. Getting ahead against some teams sets the tone for the rest of the game and makes our players job much easier. The longer it goes on without the breakthrough then the more we struggle. Especially at home.
Hopefully we'll see an improvement next season.
1. Player(s) that can score goals from outside the box regularly
2. Player(s) with a bit more quality in the final third
3. Threats from set pieces
If we have players who can score from outside the box then teams can put as many players behind the ball as they like. Eventually we'll make the breakthrough.
Similarly if we have a bit more quality in the final third to make that killer pass or beat a couple of players then it creates space for others to get chances.
And we're not good enough from set pieces. We get a lot of corners and free kicks that rarely threaten. Katic scored a couple of important goals from corners earlier in the season for example and we've missed that sort of threat.
Not too concerned with the defence overall but silly mistakes need to be cut out at times.
If we can address those issues then a lot of those draws will be turned into wins and some severe pumpings will be dished out as well. Getting ahead against some teams sets the tone for the rest of the game and makes our players job much easier. The longer it goes on without the breakthrough then the more we struggle. Especially at home.
Hopefully we'll see an improvement next season.
omegaman
Well-Known Member
I'm the first to sneer at any Gerrard-Souness comparison, but the difference between a side that had struggled to finish 5th the previous season and one that lifted the title just twelve months later was but four players: Butcher, Woods, Roberts and Souness himself.
On a relative scale, adding greater quality, even in small numbers, can make a huge difference - you've just got to get the right quality.
On a relative scale, adding greater quality, even in small numbers, can make a huge difference - you've just got to get the right quality.
