Find it Strange That we're being linked strongly with players for next season, when no manager

[Mason Boyne]

Ultimately its the Manager's decision who gets signed; that has been well-documented by Rangers and by Mark Allen.

Getting to the point where a decision has to be taken is a 'group effort' based upon the profile of player the Club wants to recruit (@mart22 explains it well above). That provides a short-list which will, inevitably, include any names the Manager throws into the hat. The DoF works on those options and comes back with what is 'do-able'. The Manager makes the call on what his preferences are.

So, in answer to your question, the ultimate decision of who we sign - finances permitting - lies with the Manager. The Manager therefore, rightly, carries the can. As I've said earlier, if it works for some of the top Managers in the game why on earth shouldn't it work at Ibrox?

Thank you.
So we come back to the question why are we attempting pre contracts , knowing that we are changing managers. Or, worryingly, are we changing managers?
With regard to the “style” of football Rangers wants to play , each manager will have their own preference.
According to mart22, will we only appoint managers that will play the Rangers style?

 

[Mason Boyne]

The amount of people who can’t get their heads around the fact that the dof signs the players and then it’s up to the manager/first team coach to mould them into a team.the days of a manager signing and selling players have been made redundant with the appointment of the dof.

I can get my head round it, I happen to believe that it’s the wrong way to do things.
The Klopp method is better. I want Messi Mr DOF, so can you get a deal together to bring him here?

 

[Valley Bluenose]

Thank you.
So we come back to the question why are we attempting pre contracts , knowing that we are changing managers. Or, worryingly, are we changing managers?
With regard to the “style” of football Rangers wants to play , each manager will have their own preference.
According to mart22, will we only appoint managers that will play the Rangers style?

Because, in some instances, you can't afford to 'miss the boat'. We've f*cked up in finding ourselves Managerless, without a question, but life - and planning - at the Club has to go on. We could miss out on Arfield, for example, by delaying.

Of course, you will say, 'what if the next Manager doesn't fancy Arfield'. Well, what if he doesn't fancy Tav, Dorrans, Docherty, McCrorie or Morelos? He just has to get on with it and mould them into the team he wants.

 

[Valley Bluenose]

I can get my head round it, I happen to believe that it’s the wrong way to do things.
The Klopp method is better. I want Messi Mr DOF, so can you get a deal together to bring him here?

And, just like at Ibrox, the DoF will turn around and say 'well, we cant quite afford him right now, but how about any of the guys from this list I have prepared here Mr Klopp. Or do you have any more realistic alternatives I can add to my list, Mr Klopp'?

We are straying into fantasy-land here.

 

[Mason Boyne]

And, just like at Ibrox, the DoF will turn around and say 'well, we cant quite afford him right now, but how about any of the guys from this list I have prepared here Mr Klopp. Or do you have any more realistic alternatives I can add to my list, Mr Klopp'?

We are straying into fantasy-land here.

Ok I used an extreme example to make my point of how I think it should operate, which is different to some on here.
It’s all about opinions as Big Derek would say.

 

[wayoutwest]

I have still to be completely convinced by the DOF role & the money spent on it - particularly where player recruitment is concerned.

It's been reported that the "head coach" will ask for say, a left back & the DOF will present some options for consideration, probably sourced via the scouting system, so basically we are being asked to trust the judgement of the DOF.

Why is that different to trusting the judgement on players of a hands on "manager", who would also be presented with options sourced via the scouting system?

I appreciate the DOF will have a wider remit within the club, but there is no doubt in my mind that we will be restricting ourselves in the manager search as there will be managers out there who will simply refuse to work with/under a DOF.

It's the scouting team's opinions we are relying on, in a broader sense yes we are trusting the judgement of the DOF but only in the sense that he has chosen these particular scouts.

 

[Hoogsy66]

I'd find it strange if the DOF wasn't sourcing and securing players for next season at this stage.

I

I'd find it strange if the DOF wasn't sourcing and securing players for next season at this stage.

l understand the the role of a director of football. But I’d find it hard to believe that a top manager, would risk his reputation coming into a club with most of the players already signed.

 

[Oranje]

It might be that the next manager is known and just hasn't been announced yet during this critical moment in our season?

Or it might well be that the DOF is looking at getting the ball rolling in order to provide the next manager with a balanced squad, considering what we are likely to lose during the summer.

If players know 100% Murty is a goner and there is a new guy waiting to step in then he loses what little power over them he has left.

 

[Ponientebear]

FDB did at Inter. He took on a job with a squad full of players signed by a DoF.

Probably not the best example to use.

 

[Jaws II]

He's not doing it on his own. There is a squad profile based on the style of football Rangers want to play. A few informed opinions will go into maintaining the squad profile, and data collected on performances, injuries and player profiles will go into this as well. Recruitment decisions can then be taken based on the best opinions backed up with data analysis. This strategy helps ensure continuity isn't solely dependent on who manages Rangers at the time.

What is that style of football?

4231, with 2 attacking full backs, 2 wingers and a number 10 who doesn’t help the midfield win the battle in the middle.

If that is our style we are fucked.

The manager shouldn’t be pursuing players on his own and not should the DOF , it should be done together. This is only acceptable if done on behalf of new manager.
However with this inept board we probably haven’t started looking yet.

 

[chateaubleu]

The amount of people who can’t get their heads around the fact that the dof signs the players and then it’s up to the manager/first team coach to mould them into a team.the days of a manager signing and selling players have been made redundant with the appointment of the dof.

It would be complete madness to suggest that the manager has no input into who the DoF signs though.

Unless the DoF is already liasing with our new manager...

 

[Valley Bluenose]

.....

The manager shouldn’t be pursuing players on his own and not should the DOF , it should be done together. ....

We don't have a new Manager yet. Do new risk, for example, missing the opportunity to get Arfield and McArthur on pre-contracts because we are dithering on the appointment of the new manager or do we accept they are good players who, out-of-contract, represent good value?

Not that I think McArthur is likely but that's for another thread.

 

[JD1872]

The reality is we cannot mess around when it comes to getting pre contract deals done. I would be happy for the DOF to go ahead and make Murphy/Cummings permanent while getting in quality where available on pre contracts such as Arfield and MacArthur.

We really do not have much time now with the new manager , can only hope we are well down the round and are just waiting until the end of the season to announce it but who knows

 

[The Enigma]

Some people are just never going to get this DoF business are they?

 

[BrownBrogues]

When players enter in to their last 6 months they can speak too who they like, they will want to sign pre-agreements to have their future tied up. If we did not act now the likes of who we've been linked with will go elsewhere and the Summer option of picking up the best of frees from the EPL gone with it, leaving us with having to find a budget for every signing. I suspect the plan is to secure as much quality and a bit of steel for free to allow the new Manager to use the budget on a couple with a bit of flair that will cost us.

But I suspect Allen knows who is coming in and any moves are being sanctioned in the background.

 

[Blue Tack]

People absolutely jumping the gun here ,the DoF needs time to do his job ,let him get his men in ,a new manager and judge him on that ,in ten weeks time I believe we will have a new manager ,five or six new players and the club will be in a healthy state ,give it time man ,in this country we want everything yesterday ,patience ffs .

 

[Deleted member 3807]

What is that style of football?

4231, with 2 attacking full backs, 2 wingers and a number 10 who doesn’t help the midfield win the battle in the middle.

If that is our style we are fucked.

The manager shouldn’t be pursuing players on his own and not should the DOF , it should be done together. This is only acceptable if done on behalf of new manager.
However with this inept board we probably haven’t started looking yet.

That's the tactics rather than the style. The style of football we play falls into the club led philosophy you hear MA talk about. The style of football would be described with words like competitive, entertaining, winning. The style of football is a result of the club led philosophy. Right now the club led philosophy needs some work!

 

[Teddyjohn]

I have still to be completely convinced by the DOF role & the money spent on it - particularly where player recruitment is concerned.

It's been reported that the "head coach" will ask for say, a left back & the DOF will present some options for consideration, probably sourced via the scouting system, so basically we are being asked to trust the judgement of the DOF.

Why is that different to trusting the judgement on players of a hands on "manager", who would also be presented with options sourced via the scouting system?

I appreciate the DOF will have a wider remit within the club, but there is no doubt in my mind that we will be restricting ourselves in the manager search as there will be managers out there who will simply refuse to work with/under a DOF.

Totally agree with this.....good post.

 

[Jaws II]

We don't have a new Manager yet. Do new risk, for example, missing the opportunity to get Arfield and McArthur on pre-contracts because we are dithering on the appointment of the new manager or do we accept they are good players who, out-of-contract, represent good value?

Not that I think McArthur is likely but that's for another thread.

Whose fucking fault is that?

Who is potentially fucking up another load of new signings by not getting a new manager in place to go over this with the DOF.

They are opening themselves up for another disaster here. I wanted a DOF however signings should be planned with the manager.

 

[Valley Bluenose]

That's the tactics rather than the style. The style of football we play falls into the club led philosophy you hear MA talk about. The style of football would be described with words like competitive, entertaining, winning. The style of football is a result of the club led philosophy. Right now the club led philosophy needs some work!

The only philosophy we need at Ibrox is.....winning.

Everything else is a bonus. I'm sure Mark Allen knows that only too well.

 

[Ciro]

I dunno why people find it such a difficult concept.

Pep, Poch, Klopp and Conte all work under a Dof/Technical Director structure and seem to manage fairly well. Indeed more than half the clubs in the EPL - and most on the continent - work this way.

Any new Manager joining any club is going to inherit players signed by the previous Managers/DoFs. They don't simply immediately discard them, they, in most case, coach them to their methods and integrate them into the setup they want to play. The team then evolves over the Manager's - generally short - tenure.

Of course, they have a say in any players signed AFTER they take up position.

As for the players, they don't give a damn. Average tenure for a Manager in the EPL is around 18 months I think (in recent times the average at Ibrox is probably similar). No player expects to play for the same manager throughout his tenure at a club. They join for the money and/or prestige. Nothing more. Alexis Sanchez desperately wanted to play for Pep but when Mourinho came calling he signed for a Man Utd team totally unsuited to how he plays. Why? Money!

When you are at a super club and targeting elite players your list will be entirely comprised of the best players going and those lists will be similar from elite club to elite club. The margin for error is not as obvious nor as detrimental depending on who you end up with. The superstar managers of the day will also likely determine their no.1, 2 and 3 targets as the ultimate decision makers and not be dictated to by a list from a DOF. They all are of course excellent coaches so will improve players regardless of who is signed.

A club like ours, with limited resources, and a smaller pool of talent to recruit from, cannot afford any errors so the DOF role should come under greater scrutiny at Rangers than say Liverpool.

In theory it’s a good structure but in my own view cannot be deemed like for like in terms of the roles performed at elite level clubs and clubs in Scotland.

 

[Robo72]

That were being linked strongly with players for next season, when next seasons manager hasn’t been named.

Surely we’ve got something in place, and not going down the road of a Director of Football bringing in players and expecting a manager to make a team out of them.

Or worryingly were sticking with Murty !

Surely any new manager worth his salt would rather bring in his own signings ?

I agree but don't about the Murty staying!
Obviously the manager coming in will have to fall in line with the DOF choices, does it make the new manager vulnerable to bad choices??? absolutely!
I know I am outdated but I think a manager needs to pick his players.
unless the wheels are already turning in the background and there is already a collaboration between the new guy and the DOF.

 

[Bearshire]

Hopefully once a proper manager is in then the DoF dials back

 

[Deleted member 3807]

The only philosophy we need at Ibrox is.....winning.

Everything else is a bonus. I'm sure Mark Allen knows that only too well.

I agree in the main. However, entertainment is essential too. In league 2 we didn't lose a single game. Won it without breaking sweat. That didn't stop everyone complaining about the turgid football we were playing, and saying the manager wasn't good enough.

 

[Valley Bluenose]

Whose fucking fault is that?

Who is potentially fucking up another load of new signings by not getting a new manager in place to go over this with the DOF.

They are opening themselves up for another disaster here. I wanted a DOF however signings should be planned with the manager.

I don't disagree it's a clusterf*ck regarding the appointment of a new Manager. The thread is about the DoF making moves in the absence of a Manager though. We are where we are and he has to make the best of it he can. We are not in an ideal situation but we can't just stand still.

Plenty other threads to discuss the Boards dithering over a new Manager.

 

[Jaws II]

That's the tactics rather than the style. The style of football we play falls into the club led philosophy you hear MA talk about. The style of football would be described with words like competitive, entertaining, winning. The style of football is a result of the club led philosophy. Right now the club led philosophy needs some work!

That sounds like a lot of mission statement bollocks.

Our style as you say, should be win at all cost and to be flexible to change your tactics when confronted with change.
Walter was clever enough to do this. His teams were pretty defensive , won the midfield battle to enable his flair players to hit dour and defensive teams.
When his team attacked they did it in numbers and defended in numbers also.
Walter’s team I wouldn’t say had a particular style, he had the management skills to get his team to be flexible enough to change tactics to ensure they won.

 

[TamS-RFC]

The reason you don’t allow a manager full control over signings is you end up with a squad packed full of their dross that you can’t shift once they’re gone

Hmmm I have a feeling this has happened before...

 

[Valley Bluenose]

...

In theory it’s a good structure but in my own view cannot be deemed like for like in terms of the roles performed at elite level clubs and clubs in Scotland.

I hear what you say but I'd have to disagree with you to an extent. 'Margins of error' are just that. Our failed £1m signing is their failed £50m signing, or their £100m signing. The numbers are bigger but the risks remain and the impact of getting it wrong remains. They are awash with money but it's not an endless, bottomless pit - they have to get it right more often than they get it wrong, just as we do.

 

[Valley Bluenose]

I agree in the main. However, entertainment is essential too. In league 2 we didn't lose a single game. Won it without breaking sweat. That didn't stop everyone complaining about the turgid football we were playing, and saying the manager wasn't good enough.

It's a welcome by-product.

I remember those years - and I also remember all the complaints about 'style' during Walter Smith's last spell. Oh how we'd settle for some of Walter's 'style' now! He knew that winning was what mattered above all else.

 

[Deleted member 3807]

That sounds like a lot of mission statement bollocks.

Our style as you say, should be win at all cost and to be flexible to change your tactics when confronted with change.
Walter was clever enough to do this. His teams were pretty defensive , won the midfield battle to enable his flair players to hit dour and defensive teams.
When his team attacked they did it in numbers and defended in numbers also.
Walter’s team I wouldn’t say had a particular style, he had the management skills to get his team to be flexible enough to change tactics to ensure they won.

Yes, when Walter was in charge the philosophy was very much his. He was the manager and was in complete control of the football operations. Fortunately he was very good at management, picking football teams, and winning games.

Mark Allen's club led philosophy is intended to make football operations much more independent of individuals. The aim being continuity even if key people depart. With a club led philosophy we should avoid lurching from being a good side under one manager, to being a bad side under his successor. The style of football shouldn't be anything less than what we are accustomed to ie entertaining, competitive, winning etc. Our managers, and our players are employed because they are a good fit with the club led philosophy.

It's a new, modern approach to football under MA as DoF. It'll be judged by our results, but it should also be given some understanding by the support in my view. The alternative is finding another Walter Smith, and that won't be easy.

 

[devilman]

Murty cannot continue but I guess it just shows that Allan has more of a say over the players coming in. Something that might put a few managers off but who knows at this stage. I guess it could be the case that the board already know who is coming in and these players will have been informed of this under a non-disclosure or similar.

There is absolutely no way we can begin next season with Murty in charge though.

 

[a_weir]

We have a Director of Football for this very job.

 

[Deleted member 3807]

It's a welcome by-product.

I remember those years - and I also remember all the complaints about 'style' during Walter Smith's last spell. Oh how we'd settle for some of Walter's 'style' now! He knew that winning was what mattered above all else.

I'd love someone with Walter's ability now. Some may not have fully appreciated his talents at the time, but with the benefit of hindsight everyone should be able to see just how good he was. All those 1 and 2 nils added up to trophies

 

[Jaws II]

Yes, when Walter was in charge the philosophy was very much his. He was the manager and was in complete control of the football operations. Fortunately he was very good at management, picking football teams, and winning games.

Mark Allen's club led philosophy is intended to make football operations much more independent of individuals. The aim being continuity even if key people depart. With a club led philosophy we should avoid lurching from being a good side under one manager, to being a bad side under his successor. The style of football shouldn't be anything less than what we are accustomed to ie entertaining, competitive, winning etc. Our managers, and our players are employed because they are a good fit with the club led philosophy.

It's a new, modern approach to football under MA as DoF. It'll be judged by our results, but it should also be given some understanding by the support in my view. The alternative is finding another Walter Smith, and that won't be easy.

Sorry I am with valley.

Our style under Walter was winning, he would do it by any means and any tactics. With a counter attacking team to hit on the break, midfielders who could battle and use the ball well, one winger, and a back 4 who could all defend well.
With more open teams he would change this style and use attacking wide players who could score and most of all 2 strikers.

With us the only style that is needed is winning by all costs.

 

[Jdb2005]

The DOF recruits the manager that fits the profile of player he has recruited or wants to recruit. That recruitment doesnt stop with our without a manager hired. A manager when brought in has a say in recruitment with DOF.

 

[90minsofmadness]

Surely any new manager worth his salt would rather bring in his own signings ?

NO

 

[Brian_Fantana]

I think the bigger concern is that we are forcing the arm potentially of the next man with regard to the system we play. Against good teams this 4231 option doesn’t work defensively with the players we have, and we struggle to break down stodgy teams with it.

We actually have a pretty versatile squad. It's the *manager* that is shoehorning them into this daft formation.

The DoF is bringing in players that any genuine manager should be able to get a tune out of. Seasoned pros who understand where we have to be.

 

[cranky]

I would find it strange that the players are willing to sign when they don't have a clue who they will be playing for.

Surely they must be asking the question of who the manager or head coach is going to be before they put pen to paper.

 

[90minsofmadness]

I would find it strange that the players are willing to sign when they don't have a clue who they will be playing for.

Surely they must be asking the question of who the manager or head coach is going to be before they put pen to paper.

Why?

Most players will want to come to a club because it matched thier ambitions. No-one goes to a club to play for individual managers unless they wave already worked with them or they are in the very top tier of managers; Gaurdiola, Mourinho, Klopp but they are at elite clubs anyway.

 

[ItsInTheNet]

To ge honest i dont really find it strange at all.The new manager will be communicating with the DOF concerning who his targets are. It merely underlines what we already know that Murty is for the off.

 

[Laudrup1]

I worry we are getting it wrong again. DOF should be getting players after discussing with manager what we need. He shouldn’t be doing this on his own.

Yup, we managed to appoint a manager before the DoF and made a raving balls of it all.

Now we've got a DoF buying players for a coach who isn't even here and hasn't told him how he wants the team to play.

We might go 3-5-2 under a new coach...are the guys Allen is identifying suitable for whatever the new coach plays.

The rest of the academy follow on from the system that the 1st team use where possible. That is going to come from our coach. Allen doesn't decide how the team plays or he is effectively a traditional "British manager" at some point with coaches under him.

The board really have let us down horrifically in not dealing with the managerial appointment after firing Pedro.

 

[Laudrup1]

Why?

Most players will want to come to a club because it matched thier ambitions. No-one goes to a club to play for individual managers unless they wave already worked with them or they are in the very top tier of managers; Gaurdiola, Mourinho, Klopp but they are at elite clubs anyway.

No, but in 90% of cases they'll know who the manager is so it's not even a question.

Plenty of players go and sign for the club, to live in the city and work with the players they know are there and the manager is part of that consideration...but at least the know who it is.

 

[Mason Boyne]

That's the tactics rather than the style. The style of football we play falls into the club led philosophy you hear MA talk about. The style of football would be described with words like competitive, entertaining, winning. The style of football is a result of the club led philosophy. Right now the club led philosophy needs some work!

Where have you heard MA talk about this?
Club led philosophy? Sounds like University speak to me.
As an Auld yin and listening to my Dad and Grandfather, the Rangers style was always built on solid defences.
In all honesty to me winning is entertaining, and the fact it’s a sport, you expect your team to compete.

 

[Mason Boyne]

NO

A manager worth his salt has told you this?
What an answer.

 

[90minsofmadness]

A manager worth his salt has told you this?
What an answer.

Any manager worth his salt can take players and make them better and have them running through brick walls for them.

 

[Mason Boyne]

Any manager worth his salt can take players and make them better and have them running through brick walls for them.

A duds a dud no matter who manages him.
Everyone has a level of ability that he/she cannot exceed. There are certain players that even Pep or Jose could do nothing with.
But if you were a boss , you wouldn’t rather bring in your own preferred player?

 

[Deleted member 3807]

Where have you heard MA talk about this?
Club led philosophy? Sounds like University speak to me.
As an Auld yin and listening to my Dad and Grandfather, the Rangers style was always built on solid defences.
In all honesty to me winning is entertaining, and the fact it’s a sport, you expect your team to compete.

MA spoke about the club led philosophy during the failed effort to employ a replacement for Pedro.

It just means a football philosophy instilled within the fabric of the club, rather than implemented by, and dependent on an individual. Tactics, team selections, managers, players, coaches, everything connected to the football dept adheres to club philosophy. It's a good idea to implement, and its success will be judged over time.

 

[tintin69]

I think a lot of Scottish football fans struggle to understand this idea of having a Director of Football. Certainly on FF, the idea still seems completely alien to some.

It’s common in more advanced countries football-wise for a DOF or transfer committee to buy a set of players with or without a manager.

Do you honestly want a manager who is asked to work with players he had no say in signing??

If we are to get a manager of any standing this is not what you do. You hold fire and give the transfer budget to his full disposal.
It might be "common in more advanced countries" but I can assure you none of the top managers in the EPL would work under those conditions. Brenda at the piggery would never accept those conditions and neither should the manager of Glasgow Rangers. Could you imagine Walter getting told who was getting signed?????

 

[Ciro]

I hear what you say but I'd have to disagree with you to an extent. 'Margins of error' are just that. Our failed £1m signing is their failed £50m signing, or their £100m signing. The numbers are bigger but the risks remain and the impact of getting it wrong remains. They are awash with money but it's not an endless, bottomless pit - they have to get it right more often than they get it wrong, just as we do.

I don’t disagree they need to get it right but I don’t see the impact of getting an expensive signing wrong for a DOF as being relative in England. It’s apples and oranges to an extent with Scotland. Operating at the elite level always gives a percentage or a degree of return.

The impact of Rangers spending 3M on player and giving him 26per week wages has a far more detrimental effect on our resources if we don’t see a return on the pitch or in resell value. A player like Pena it’s fair to say can be considered a write off. There’s no market for us to recoup our outlay there.

By comparative measure, a side like Liverpool can spend 30M on a player - say Benteke - and it doesn’t work out and they’ll be a Crystal Palace around the corner willing to shell out millions for him. It may be a loss but there’s a market for him and a buyer. The impact to the DOF is mark against his name but the club can carry it and remain successful.

We can’t.

 

[temperance]

The reason you don’t allow a manager full control over signings is you end up with a squad packed full of their dross that you can’t shift once they’re gone

Correct, we are still stuck with Pedro's mess, and some of Warburtons too.