Football fans being fleeced by bookies?

Give me the variable if me and Gary the Gambler want to put an online bet of £500 on a 4/1 shot in the UK?
And they accept Gary's bet because he's a losing gambler with a problem and reject mine because I win?
I've not once said shops shouldn't have worse odds due to costs?
Or different bookies can't price differently.

I simply can't buy into your argument here at all.
Why should a money making enterprise be compelled to accept a risk that they can lawfully reject?


The point about tesco was nothing to do with shops and costs. A (tesco) get a pint of milk from a farmer at (for argument's sake) 10p. B, me, gets the same pint of milk off the same farmer for 50p to sell in my wee shop. Milk is regulated, so why should the farmer be allowed to sell the milk to one person for 80% cheaper than another? The answer is fairly obvious: Because I am not forced to buy my milk from him, the market is open and he is 100% allowed to charge who he wants, what he wants for his milk. He can set his prices to maximise profit and to minimise risk.

Why should gambling be any different? Online I am buying a chance at increasing my money by a set amount off the back of a result of one kind or another. I am in no way forced to do it, it is a free choice and I am fully aware of the odds offered and the amount I can bet. What someone else gets is 100% nothing to do with my transaction at all.
 
Why should a money making enterprise be compelled to accept a risk that they can lawfully reject?


The point about tesco was nothing to do with shops and costs. A (tesco) get a pint of milk from a farmer at (for argument's sake) 10p. B, me, gets the same pint of milk off the same farmer for 50p to sell in my wee shop. Milk is regulated, so why should the farmer be allowed to sell the milk to one person for 80% cheaper than another? The answer is fairly obvious: Because I am not forced to buy my milk from him, the market is open and he is 100% allowed to charge who he wants, what he wants for his milk. He can set his prices to maximise profit and to minimise risk.

Why should gambling be any different? Online I am buying a chance at increasing my money by a set amount off the back of a result of one kind or another. I am in no way forced to do it, it is a free choice and I am fully aware of the odds offered and the amount I can bet. What someone else gets is 100% nothing to do with my transaction at all.
Sorry buddy, through in another edit you missed..
I'm not getting what I signed up for though, am I?
Are those complaining? No.
 
Sorry buddy, through in another edit you missed..
I'm not getting what I signed up for though, am I?
Are those complaining? No.
You did not sign up in advance for specific odds for specific games. You signed up to be able to place bets within the allowed limit and for the advertised odds, nothing more.
 
'
Oh, and when I signed up at the bookies it was on stories of best odds guaranteed, betting limits and so on. So to waste time with KYC only for it to be rendered a useless waste of time after a month or 2 is upsetting.
The same as your poker tournament, that won't have the prize confirmed until the buy in and rebuy period ends? '

If the bookie fails to offer the best odds, guess what...You are in no way forced to deposit more money and use that bookie. If the odds are not the best, that means they are better somewhere else and you are, courtesy of the same free market that the bookie operates under, free to move to the better one.

The amounts in a tournament will not be known but you will 100% know, or have access to, the payout table which tells you how many people get paid, and what percentage of the pot, depending on the number of runners.

 
So when you signed up you were given odds for every future game in every possible market? What odds were you offered for the NY scum game in 2020 please?
I signed up to "the biggest prizes", "win big", "best markets", "Best odds guaranteed"
I spent time on the sign up, I sent in photos of me, photos of I.D, Photos of bank cards. I went back and forward in chat and email. I had my time wasted. I didn't get what I was offered, so I'll continue to bitch about them not letting winners win.

"Win upto a million" etc, with a max win on account of £40?

I think I'll open a bar, just sell alckies Mentholated spirits. as long as it's cheap enough for the drunks and I advertise it as is, I'm sure I'll have no problem. Let the upmarket bar around the corner stick to the whisky and vodka and beer.
 
I signed up to "the biggest prizes", "win big", "best markets", "Best odds guaranteed"
I spent time on the sign up, I sent in photos of me, photos of I.D, Photos of bank cards. I went back and forward in chat and email. I had my time wasted. I didn't get what I was offered, so I'll continue to bitch about them not letting winners win.

"Win upto a million" etc, with a max win on account of £40?

I think I'll open a bar, just sell alckies Mentholated spirits. as long as it's cheap enough for the drunks and I advertise it as is, I'm sure I'll have no problem. Let the upmarket bar around the corner stick to the whisky and vodka and beer.

I don't think you understand how marketing works :D

Firstly, 'best odds guaranteed' does not mean that every single price given will be the best available, it means that an ASA approved definition, over a set period and reflecting a very particular market will allow them to say that, ie, over 12 months, over every EPL game, their odds will be 0.0000000000001% better than anyone else.

Secondly, every business advertises and makes out that they are the best. Sky is a perfect example here in that they offer the 'best' of various mediums and charge their customers varying amounts for the same thing.

Win up to a million? Did you see the flashing lights and not read about how you could win it? Why on Earth would that be the fault of the bookie, so long as something they offer allows someone to win up to a million?

On your last point, if there is a market for your bar, it will do well. If not, it will fold. The government will not decide, the punters will and just like choosing a bookie, they are free to take it or leave it as they decide, nobody is forcing them either in, nor out, of your bistro.
 
I don't think you understand how marketing works :D

Firstly, 'best odds guaranteed' does not mean that every single price given will be the best available, it means that an ASA approved definition, over a set period and reflecting a very particular market will allow them to say that, ie, over 12 months, over every EPL game, their odds will be 0.0000000000001% better than anyone else.

Secondly, every business advertises and makes out that they are the best. Sky is a perfect example here in that they offer the 'best' of various mediums and charge their customers varying amounts for the same thing.

Win up to a million? Did you see the flashing lights and not read about how you could win it? Why on Earth would that be the fault of the bookie, so long as something they offer allows someone to win up to a million?

On your last point, if there is a market for your bar, it will do well. If not, it will fold. The government will not decide, the punters will and just like choosing a bookie, they are free to take it or leave it as they decide, nobody is forcing them either in, nor out, of your bistro.

Best Odds Guaranteed will mean if the sp is bigger than the price he took then he gets the sp price won’t it? Can see why people get pissed off when that is taken away from them but again no laws are being broken.
 
I don't think you understand how marketing works :D

Firstly, 'best odds guaranteed' does not mean that every single price given will be the best available, it means that an ASA approved definition, over a set period and reflecting a very particular market will allow them to say that, ie, over 12 months, over every EPL game, their odds will be 0.0000000000001% better than anyone else.

Secondly, every business advertises and makes out that they are the best. Sky is a perfect example here in that they offer the 'best' of various mediums and charge their customers varying amounts for the same thing.

Win up to a million? Did you see the flashing lights and not read about how you could win it? Why on Earth would that be the fault of the bookie, so long as something they offer allows someone to win up to a million?

On your last point, if there is a market for your bar, it will do well. If not, it will fold. The government will not decide, the punters will and just like choosing a bookie, they are free to take it or leave it as they decide, nobody is forcing them either in, nor out, of your bistro.
Marketing?
Is that the thing that does the opposite of bad publicity?
You don't seem to understand that getting shit service gives me the right to complain and moan?

"Payouts of £1 million on football accumulators" but if you win were are limiting your payout to certain people to 40 quid isn't marketing, it's a lie.

There are bookies with a payout cap of £5k, £50k, so going through the rigmarole of signing up to the biggest bookies with the highest cap shouldn't be a waste of time. Should it?

I think I'll go play boiler room, just market up to 100% returns to folk and %^*& off with their money, it's just a bit of marketing, fair game.
Can't understand why people got pissed at Jordan Belfort. eh?
 
Marketing?
Is that the thing that does the opposite of bad publicity?
You don't seem to understand that getting shit service gives me the right to complain and moan?

"Payouts of £1 million on football accumulators" but if you win were are limiting your payout to certain people to 40 quid isn't marketing, it's a lie.

There are bookies with a payout cap of £5k, £50k, so going through the rigmarole of signing up to the biggest bookies with the highest cap shouldn't be a waste of time. Should it?

I think I'll go play boiler room, just market up to 100% returns to folk and %^*& off with their money, it's just a bit of marketing, fair game.


Where has anyone said you cannot complain? You might have seen me give you a right few good examples of when you should complain, and even go further, leave and go somewhere else.


This thread is not about shit service from bookies and your point was not about your disappointment at the service levels. The thread is about the bookies fleecing people and your point is about them fleecing you by offering someone else better odds or a higher level.

If you want to call them all shitcunts for poor customer service, I am right on your side.
If you want to try and carry on saying that they are ripping people off when those people have every right to tell the bookie to bolt, are not held hostage and are not being denied a life sustaining service, I will tell you why you are all kinds of wrong! :D
 
I remember 10r btts and win 3 matches was £300 or something then it fizzled out to pathetic odds
 
I remember 10r btts and win 3 matches was £300 or something then it fizzled out to pathetic odds

So for Palace v Liverpool tomorrow what price would you want for both teams to score and a Liverpool win?
 
My mate picked up £1500 for a £100 stake for his season long bet in the 2017 season, picked up more o4 less the same in the 2018 season, and they refused to take his bet this season, shitebags! :rolleyes:
 
To be fair I’ve been rinsing the bookies by matched betting. Made 1200 in my first month then 700 or so a month thereafter

completely risk free and legal. Pay 17 quid a month for a membeship to the below and make it back on a day.

a couple of bookies have restricted how much I can bet though. Referral link below

 
Some funny stories on that trust pilot about KYC checks. Happened to a lad on twitter with VirginBet - lol, being asked to send a photo of himself holding his passport photo page up. Wanted to withdraw £50, he had deposited £100. One thing that needs sorted out by the Gambling Commission is all that KYC, noticed the old school telephone only bookmakers require a passport photo before a deposit can be made which is fair enough and means everyone knows where they stand straight away.
 
To be fair I’ve been rinsing the bookies by matched betting. Made 1200 in my first month then 700 or so a month thereafter

completely risk free and legal. Pay 17 quid a month for a membeship to the below and make it back on a day.

a couple of bookies have restricted how much I can bet though. Referral link below

Would be keen to know more about this. I've already got a few betting accounts would that restrict what you can do?

How long you been doing it for?
 
So - disclaimer here - I actually head up a sports book on the isle of man, so I kinda have a vested interest in this but also a pretty deep knowledge of it.

The examples they give about restricting big winners are true. We identify people who clearly are exploiting edge cases and we might reduce their limits on certain sports or events where we think that they're either too good or potentially have inside information. If we can prove that they're cheating then we typically ban them and report them to the gambling industry regulators.

The same is true of people who spend over a certain amount in a time period, this automatically triggers source of wealth and other money laundering checks (basically proving that the money is yours and that it's not being laundered or has been stolen).

There have been many cases recently where problem gamblers have been encouraged to gamble more, but the regulations are pretty clear and our operation doesn't do this, but that's not to say that it isn't rife in the industry.

The reality of UK betting is that licensing means that every operator pays a hefty amount of tax, so out of that supposed 10 per cent commission that is being taken, a huge amount of that is taken in gambling duty - the UK has one of the highest rates of this.

but -- ultimately - there is a reason that bookies are still in business, they have an edge - typically between 8-16% depending on the market. That's why they're in business still!

Finally - gambling on credit cards. Anyone in here that does this - don't. It's a very bad idea. If you have a problem, reach out to me privately, I'll happily talk to you and give advice. Cheers!
 
So - disclaimer here - I actually head up a sports book on the isle of man, so I kinda have a vested interest in this but also a pretty deep knowledge of it.

The examples they give about restricting big winners are true. We identify people who clearly are exploiting edge cases and we might reduce their limits on certain sports or events where we think that they're either too good or potentially have inside information. If we can prove that they're cheating then we typically ban them and report them to the gambling industry regulators.

The same is true of people who spend over a certain amount in a time period, this automatically triggers source of wealth and other money laundering checks (basically proving that the money is yours and that it's not being laundered or has been stolen).

There have been many cases recently where problem gamblers have been encouraged to gamble more, but the regulations are pretty clear and our operation doesn't do this, but that's not to say that it isn't rife in the industry.

The reality of UK betting is that licensing means that every operator pays a hefty amount of tax, so out of that supposed 10 per cent commission that is being taken, a huge amount of that is taken in gambling duty - the UK has one of the highest rates of this.

but -- ultimately - there is a reason that bookies are still in business, they have an edge - typically between 8-16% depending on the market. That's why they're in business still!

Finally - gambling on credit cards. Anyone in here that does this - don't. It's a very bad idea. If you have a problem, reach out to me privately, I'll happily talk to you and give advice. Cheers!

Get the impression you are more on the legal/compliance side than trading really.
 
No actually. I run the whole thing, developing, ops. the lot.

Addition - the guy that wrote the mail article is an absolute rocket. Of course a bookie is going to have an edge, how else will they make money! sheesh!

I haven't even read it to be honest, heard it all before 9/10 times.

Like I have kept saying through this, closing accounts isn't really an issue to me - a bookie can close whoever they want in my opinion without reason if they want (being closed is seen as a trophy to many!). It's all the follow on issues, not being paid, asking for documents etc.. vip abuse or whatever. Online casinos, virtual crap. You'll know it all yourself and seem a genuine lad from your comments.
 
I haven't even read it to be honest, heard it all before 9/10 times.

Like I have kept saying through this, closing accounts isn't really an issue to me - a bookie can close whoever they want in my opinion without reason if they want (being closed is seen as a trophy to many!). It's all the follow on issues, not being paid, asking for documents etc.. vip abuse or whatever. Online casinos, virtual crap. You'll know it all yourself and seem a genuine lad from your comments.

Totally. There are bookies in less regulated markets (ie Curacao and places like that), that will use every trick in the book not to pay out punters. In general if you win 10K or more, you should expect to have to produce new KYC such as passport / proof of address because typically the regulators will ask for that for what they term as "big wins". This isn't always very well explained to our end users.

The flip side is that we sometimes get customers who have managed somehow to gamble away 50% of their salary in a month, and then complain because they didn't win. These people are usually flagged as problem gamblers, and we will refer them to charities like Gamcare to try and help them.

Interestingly, my old man was a bookie and a mad gambler to boot. I'm not a mad gambler at all, though I did take bet365 to the cleaners recently by betting on Lukaku and 3-0 against Scotland. Most likely I'm not allowed to bet against Scotland again, haha!
 
I put on a couple of quid every weekend, maybe a fiver. Its just recreation for me and I enjoy it. The odd win buys a carry out and a takeaway. Hurrah
 
I put on a couple of quid every weekend, maybe a fiver. Its just recreation for me and I enjoy it. The odd win buys a carry out and a takeaway. Hurrah

thats the way I see it too. Should be a bit of fun, and the satisfaction of skelping the bookie has been around for ages.

reminds me of winston In still game “Stevie.....”
 
I’m about £400 up in the last year from just putting £5/10 on the Skybet Enhanced Treble.

Another £65 last night from Spurs, Juve and Leeds at 11/2 - can’t see the big problem.
 
The key to beating the bookies is always to know more about what you're betting on than they do.

If you can do that, you'll win against them long-term.

And those specially created bets are a pile of absolute shite.

This.. last season betting on Scottish lower league games was decent as they didn’t have a clue and the odds were all over the place. There were games where you could place a bet, and then cash out before kick off for profit because the odds changed so much. Lot of bookies have tightened it up this season tho and don’t let you place bets until the day of the game.
 
This.. last season betting on Scottish lower league games was decent as they didn’t have a clue and the odds were all over the place. There were games where you could place a bet, and then cash out before kick off for profit because the odds changed so much. Lot of bookies have tightened it up this season tho and don’t let you place bets until the day of the game.

the issue is that most low ranking games like the Scottish second division the bookies don’t care about generally, and their traders are lazy....
 
Anyone who has done proper odds compiling will know how hard pricing up so many leagues is, not really a case of being lazy it’s just simply like what people say - other people know more. Ludicrous to release lower league Scottish on the same day you release Premier League for example.

All these odds providers offer so much now it’s impossible to be accurate non stop. The games totally changed this century. Many traders couldn’t price up and run prices for an in play premier league match manually without betfair up or 365 to copy now.
 
Of the 3 points in the header the first 2 are a given, imo, but as for the 3rd point I'm now going to be asking my bookie for a free holiday :)
 
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