Formation thread

Scotty_boy90

Scotty_boy90

Well-Known Member
Having watched Walter's last few seasons highlights Walter usually played a 442 in domestic games whilst changing to a 451/541 in European football.

However Walter seemed to always play a very narrow form of 442 with Broadfoot and Papac filling full back roles having previously played centre half. Interestingly Walter also played Davis as a right midfield player occasionally playing lafferty or naismith wide too.

I suppose what I am getting at is Walter had players that could play different positions in different formations and as much as we used to laugh and criticise players playing 'out of position' he was very successful. Walters 442 I would suggest was more fluid during games changing as and when required and this would be one thing that Gerrard doesn't seem to do very often.

With Hagi signing I think we might change to a 4231 next season but I would like to think we would have players that could change the system when required. The 4231 could become 433 or 442 diamond shape with hagi up top with morelos.

With the current squad this might be our strongest starting 11 that could be flexible when required?

Mcgregor
Tav goldson helander barisic
Jack davis
Aribo Hagi kent
Morelos

Kamara to replace Davis when required and Arfield could play in hagis position with hagi moving to either flank?

Thoughts bears?
 
buc11 said:
I've never been a fan of one upfront, unless we were underdogs. There's certain games we should absolutely have two strikers, if not the majority of the time.
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Yeah I would tend to agree and I wonder if that's why Gerrard has brought in hagi to play as a second striker at times.
 
We currently don't have the personnel to use 2 wingers and that's what you need for a 4231 to work.

There's Kent and the rest are awful
 
Necro said:
We currently don't have the personnel to use 2 wingers and that's what you need for a 4231 to work.

There's Kent and the rest are awful
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I thought aribo played quite well on the right some games but I take your point that he isn't a natural winger.
 
Effectively in his second spell we often played a 433.

Davis tucked in from the right and Lafferty/Naismith went forward from the left
 
It appears to me that every few years "a new formation" appears and everyone jumps on the bandwagon.
I'm not entirely sure that I would use the term "fluid" when taking about teams under Walter Smith. Especially when you compare those teams to the one under Dick Advocaat
But I concede that most of the players could play in various positions which offered him in game options.
I'm afraid that option is not something that appears to be much of an option at the moment.
My preference is 442 with a holding midfielder, two wider players and an attacking midfielder. But like previous posters have suggested we done have an abundance of wide players. Equally I'm not sure we have enough with enough intelligence that could cover that formation when we don't have the ball, never mind when we do have it
 
I like 4-3-1-2, especially in the domestic league outside playing Celtic. I think we have to bombard these lesser teams and play a lot more directly and at pace.
 
Necro said:
We currently don't have the personnel to use 2 wingers and that's what you need for a 4231 to work.

There's Kent and the rest are awful
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Kent never really set the heather on fire last season either.

we need to find a formation that the players are comfortable with and find one that can able us to grind out victories against the opposition when needed.
We have to stop gifting goals when under no pressure, we need a midfield that controls the pace of a game and contributes by scoring more goals.
We need more than one striker who scores and especially someone who maintains their form for the whole season.
If we play two wide attacking players then both have to provide more assists and goals than what we have got the last 2 seasons.
 
Necro said:
He scored in massive games and his individual data is actually quite good.

He was just scapegoated for post January form.
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Im sorry you could count Kent’s good games with one of Anne Boleyn’s hands last season.
He seriously need to up his form, I don’t think anyone was that good after Xmas but he was pretty bad along with a good few others.
 
I like the thought of having 2 up front for most games.

Given how attacking Tav and Borna are I'd like to see how a 3-5-2 / 5-3-2 world work

McGregor
Goldson Helander Katic
Tav Barasic
Jack Davis
Hagi
Morelos ST


Formatting looked ok on mobile but not after I posted. Tav and Barasic would effectively be attacking full backs.

I know this wouldn't fit the players we have, for example Kent but I feel for most games we could get away with being attack minded.

I think with what we have now then 4231 is most likely with Jack and Davis/ Kamara as the 2, Kent, Hagi and Aribo as the 3 and Morelos up front. Can quickly become 4-3-3 or 4-5-1.
 
Jaws II said:
Im sorry you could count Kent’s good games with one of Anne Boleyn’s hands last season.
He seriously need to up his form, I don’t think anyone was that good after Xmas but he was pretty bad along with a good few others.
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I'll respond to this buy suggesting you invest £5 for a month of RTV so you can go back and actually watch our games mate.
 
With what we have just now I’d go:
McGregor
Tav Goldson Helander Barisic
Jack Aribo
Arfield Hagi Kent
Morelos

We definitely need more though, those CB’s are too slow not to have protection so we need a holding mid, good tackler who keeps it simple. We could then be fluid through a 4-1-4-1 type of system, ideally we need a right sided attacker too.
 
Necro said:
I'll respond to this buy suggesting you invest £5 for a month of RTV so you can go back and actually watch our games mate.
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Oh don’t worry I saw them. He had a poor season last year but he wasn’t the only one.
He wasn’t very good domestically last season apart from the odd few games. He was good at Parkhead and in a couple of the European games but his return for assists and goals for someone playing in a front 3 is nowhere near good enough if we want to win the league.
 
Walter himself has said that formations aren't important. He never overthought anything and id suggest that this simplicity was what made him so successful.

He picked guys who'd run through a brick wall for him and the club. Id suggest he was more "strategy" than "formations."
 
Jaws II said:
Oh don’t worry I saw them. He had a poor season last year but he wasn’t the only one.
He wasn’t very good domestically last season apart from the odd few games. He was good at Parkhead and in a couple of the European games but his return for assists and goals for someone playing in a front 3 is nowhere near good enough if we want to win the league.
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Goals and assist stats are quite possible the most reductive way to assess someones performance, I'm not saying it's invalid but it's discounting chances created, buildup play and a variety of other areas in which someone can perform well.

Kent's numbers are solid across the board for the most part, he plays well more often than not and did last season.

He does need to improve those numbers but it's worth pointing out that this years are an improvement on the season prior and absolutely everybody was ecstatic with the signing in the summer.
 
GingerRanger said:
I like 4-3-1-2, especially in the domestic league outside playing Celtic. I think we have to bombard these lesser teams and play a lot more directly and at pace.
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The thing is, the 4-3-3 formation has destroyed the scum.
It’s also done well against decent level European opposition.
 
Necro said:
Goals and assist stats are quite possible the most reductive way to assess someones performance, I'm not saying it's invalid but it's discounting chances created, buildup play and a variety of other areas in which someone can perform well.

Kent's numbers are solid across the board for the most part, he plays well more often than not and did last season.

He does need to improve those numbers but it's worth pointing out that this years are an improvement on the season prior and absolutely everybody was ecstatic with the signing in the summer.
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Not only were his stats poor, to the naked eye he was poor also.
 
I’m sick of one up front in Scotland.

The mentally challengeds switched it up after the winter break and went with Edouard and Griffiths up top and started demolishing teams. They had been slowing down pre-Christmas but that revitalised them.

We on the other hand stuck with a lone striker system which had been figured out by most teams. We struggled to create anything and even when we won, struggled to score more than a goal or two.

It’s not rocket science. Scottish teams are dross. You don’t need three central midfield players to control the midfield when you’re up against the likes of St Mirren. You need to give them as much to deal with as possible at the back and that means at least two strikers and a lot of attacking support from midfield.
 
KensingtonBlue said:
I’m sick of one up front in Scotland.

The mentally challengeds switched it up after the winter break and went with Edouard and Griffiths up top and started demolishing teams. They had been slowing down pre-Christmas but that revitalised them.

We on the other hand stuck with a lone striker system which had been figured out by most teams. We struggled to create anything and even when we won, struggled to score more than a goal or two.

It’s not rocket science. Scottish teams are dross. You don’t need three central midfield players to control the midfield when you’re up against the likes of St Mirren. You need to give them as much to deal with as possible at the back and that means at least two strikers and a lot of attacking support from midfield.
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Celtic didn't improve after the winter break, they just maintained their level. We didn't.

Them going to a 352 was a consequence of Lennon not knowing how to play against our shape or press.

Sick of people pretending that them playing 2 up front is the sole reason they went ahead, it couldn't be further from the truth
 
Being able to adjust game to game or even midway through a game is the key! None of this we must play this way or we need 4-4-2 brigade, Gerrard needs to be less stubborn
 
tazzabear said:
The thing is, the 4-3-3 formation has destroyed the scum.
It’s also done well against decent level European opposition.
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I agree.

However with the formation I suggest we play with two proper strikers up top. This way if Alfie, for instance, has the ball out wide we will always have someone in the box as that’s their natural instinct.

All too often if Morelos plays the ball, or if indeed he is in the middle and the ball goes by him, we don’t have anyone in close enough to get in and get a shot away.

Of course, over a season we should be using different formations in different games and circumstances. I just think against the leagues poorer teams we should have two right up top and be putting pressure on these defences more.
 
cooprfc said:
Walter himself has said that formations aren't important. He never overthought anything and id suggest that this simplicity was what made him so successful.

He picked guys who'd run through a brick wall for him and the club. Id suggest he was more "strategy" than "formations."
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I agree with this. Players looked utterly lost at times, especially after Christmas.
 
Ares said:
I like the thought of having 2 up front for most games.

Given how attacking Tav and Borna are I'd like to see how a 3-5-2 / 5-3-2 world work

McGregor
Goldson Helander Katic
Tav Barasic
Jack Davis
Hagi
Morelos ST


Formatting looked ok on mobile but not after I posted. Tav and Barasic would effectively be attacking full backs.

I know this wouldn't fit the players we have, for example Kent but I feel for most games we could get away with being attack minded.

I think with what we have now then 4231 is most likely with Jack and Davis/ Kamara as the 2, Kent, Hagi and Aribo as the 3 and Morelos up front. Can quickly become 4-3-3 or 4-5-1.
Click to expand...

Like the look of that 3-5-2. Only change I would make is switch Katic and Helander. Goldson and Helander could sit back and give Katic license to head the moon if he likes. Would suit Helander's left foot
 
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