Frank De Boer

MarkD87

MarkD87

Well-Known Member
A lot of speculation have him as one of the favourites to be wearing the blue blazer and brown brogues next season.

It has also created a heated debate on his suitability for the job. I've since been trying to gain an understanding of how good a candidate he is. Here are my findings:

Ajax

Opinion of fans:
I have been looking through Ajax forums from when he was in charge to get an idea of what fans thought of him. I appreciate that this isn't a true representation, but we are all indulged in FF so we clearly do care what some fans think.

- Results
He was obviously praised heavily for winning four league titles. In general, some fans praised him for doing this because there was a belief that he did this without the best squad in the country.
He was also praised for continually doing this even though they were continuously losing their better players, who were sold (Aldeweireld, Vertonghen, Eriksen, etc.)
Fans were obviously thrilled with the first title he won, after taking over from Jol who had the team in 4th place and 5 points behind the leaders in December. The fans were pleased to see Jol leave and even happier that a bleak season ended in winning a title.
However, fans were disappointed with the points totals they were winning the league with (73, 76, 76, 71). They compared it to PSV winning the league with 88 points in De Boer's fifth season, with Ajax only getting 71 points that season.
The fans started to become divided over De Boer in his final season at the club. This was expected due to falling from champions to 2nd and 17 points behind. In that final season they lost out on the title by 1 point to PSV. They also totalled their biggest points total with De Boer in charge, 82 points. Some fans thought he was getting the most out of the players at his disposal and blamed the club for their transfer policy for leaving him with a worse squad season after season. Other fans blamed him for tactical decisions and problems with players, I'll come onto this in 'style of play'.

- Style of Play
This is a very interesting viewpoint because anybody that understands Dutch football will know that the Dutch pride themselves on a 4-3-3 formation and will criticise most tactics out with this formation.
Initially the fans were delighted with the change in style from Jol's team that narrowly lost out to McLaren's Twente the previous season. De Boer favoured a 4-3-3 high pressing, attacking system. They were also impressed with the increasing inclusion of younger players.
However after the first league loss to PSV (De Boer's 5th season) some fans voiced concerns on the style of play. The fans were divided on this. Some saying his style was far too controlled and defensive, not attacking or entertaining enough. They say that the team became more defensive each season. Stats have De Boer's team having the best defensive record in the league for every season he was in charge except for his second season, AZ conceded one less goal this season.
In his six seasons in charge they conceded the following in a 34 game league: 30, 36, 31, 28, 29, 21.
Other fans were saying that he was tactically astute and getting the best from his players, especially due to the loss of defenders. Their centre half pairing changed from Vertonghen/Alderweireld, then Alderweireld/Moisander, then Moisander/Veltman, then Veltman/Riedewald. They argue that because of the loss of top players the team needed to be more structured and less risky in possession to compensate for a loss of so many good defenders. Others argue that money should have been spent wisely to accommodate for these losses, rather than youngsters being thrown in, or young hot prospects being bought for millions of euros.
In conclusion, De Boer started with a style that most fans enjoyed. High pressing, attacking, whilst still good at the back, and in the favoured 4-3-3 formation. As his reign continued he slowly adapted this to less attacking and more positioned when out of possession. The players were more controlled and methodical when in possession and even accustomed to De Boer changing his formations between a 4-3-3, 4-1-2-3 and 4-2-3-1. Some fans obviously were against a formation that was not the 4-3-3, where others argue he was trying to compensate for the teams capabilities and from his mistakes. They seemed to find it refreshing that he could adapt from his mistakes and try and find the solutions but for some this meant not playing the Ajax 4-3-3 attacking formation.
De Boer also received some criticism on the forums for having a hard stance on individuals with a bad attitude. The accusation was that these younger players were moved on for less than their true value because they were no longer wanted at the club.

Reading through the Ajax forums I thoroughly enjoyed how much depth they go into when analysing tactics. They speak about specific player roles, positional sense, space creation. They are very good at debating any changes in tactics and what personnel are or aren't suited to specific roles.

Stats:
I thought I'd also give some hard facts of Ajax results throughout his reign. For context De Boer took charge in December 2010.
- League (won, drawn, lost, goals scored, goals conceded, points per game, win percentage, finishing position)
2010-2011
13 2 2 36 13 2.41 76% 1st
2011-2012
23 7 4 93 36 2.24 68% 1st
2012-2013
22 10 2 83 31 2.24 65% 1st
2013-2014
20 11 3 69 28 2.09 59% 1st
2014-2015
21 8 5 69 29 2.09 62% 2nd
2015-2016
25 7 2 81 21 2.41 74% 2nd

- Dutch Cup
2010-2011
Lost in the final (FC Twente 3-2)
2011-2012
Knocked out last 16 (AZ 3-2)
2012-2013
Knocked out semi final (AZ 3-0)
2013-2014
Lost in final (Zwolle 5-1)
2014-2015
Knocked out last 16 (Vitesse 4-0)
2015-2016
Knocked out R3 (Feyenoord 1-0)

- Europe
2010-2011
3rd in Champs Lg Group (W1 D0 L0)
Knocked out last 16 Europa Lg (Spartak Moskow 4-0 agg)
2011-2012
3rd in Champs Lg Group (W2 D2 L2)
Knocked out last 32 Europa Lg (Man U 3-2)
2012-2013
3rd in Champs Lg Group (W1 D1 L4)
Knocked out last 32 Europa Lg (Steaua 4-2 pens)
2013-2014
3rd in Champs Lg Group (W2 D2 L2)
Knocked out last 32 Europa Lg (RB Salzburg 6-1 agg)
2014-2015
3rd in Champs Lg Group (W1 D2 L3)
Knocked out last 16 Europa Lg (Dnipro 2-1 ET)
2015-2016
Knocked out playoff Champs Lg (Rapid Vienna 5-4 agg)
3rd in Europa Lg Group (W1 D4 L1)
 
Internazionale

Opinion of fans:
I couldn't find any translatable forums to get a clear indication of the fans views.
The media I found suggested that fans were unsure whether the blame lay with De Boer or the board.
De Boer was known for taking a hard stance against players who didn't follow his methods. Also, he told the media he would slowly transition the team and it would be his style of football by January. He didn't get this far.
The media were mixed on his tactical approach. He was slated for playing three at the back in his first fixture because they expected a 4-3-3, they also lost that game. Then he was praised for his tactical approach when they beat Juventus. Overall they took slightly negative to his tactical approach and said he needed to adapt better to an Italian way of thinking. De Boer used mostly his 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 formations.
I also found this interesting tweet about an Inter fan endorsing Crystal Palace's appointment of De Boer - https://twitter.com/gobarnaboldi/status/879375066022240256

Stats:
- League (won, drawn, loss, goals scored, goals conceded, points per game, win percentage)
2016-2017
4 2 5 13 14 1.27 36%

- Europe
2016-2017
Europa Lg Group (W1 D0 L2)
 
Crystal Palace

Opinion of fans:
The fans seemed to be in a large agreement to sack him early in the season (after 3 games). There was a section of the fans that wanted him to be given time and saying they needed the likes of Zaha and Cabaye fit before judging him. However, the majority of the fans thought that his tactics didn't suit the personnel. Also, they really hated the three at the back because they didn't have proper wing backs.
The earliest threads are full of optimism expecting him to be there for many years or be snapped up by a bigger club.
After his sacking a few fans spoke up and thought the club was showing a lack of vision. They also thought the team looked better with the four at the back in his last game.
Zaha also came out and said he thought De Boer should have been given more time.
There were a lot of stories that he had lost the dressing room, mainly through losing big characters. They supposedly didn't understand his training methods or their value. And he supposedly undermined them on the training pitch, even getting involved in the sessions.

Stats:
- League (won, drawn, loss, goals scored, goals conceded, points per game, win percentage)
2017-2018
0 0 4 0 7 0.00 0%

- League Cup
2016-2017
Qualified into R3 (Ipswich 2-1)

It would be interesting to hear if anyone else can add to any of these opinions. Do we have any Ajax, Internazionale, or Crystal Palace fans on the forum?

What are your thoughts on Frank De Boer, the manager?
 
I think our style and our club structure suits him,.

It's his to take or say no thanks in my view.
The transfer budget will be the sticking point.
 
imager said:
The main problem with giving the job to FDB is time, we need instant results, he is a project manager who likes to build and develop a team, we can’t afford that luxury.
Click to expand...

We might not get his style of play implemented right away, but as we keep saying with the players and resources at our disposal there's no reason why a tactically aware manager shouldn't be beating the teams in this league most weeks, even while he is still trying to implement new styles and formations longer term. He won't stand there on the touchline for 80 minutes til someone gets injured before making a change when it isn't working.

He won the league at the first attempt at Ajax having taken over in December. He'll know in no uncertain terms that he needs to get results right away.
 
Good review and thanks for that.

From the looks of it, DeBoer can handle a situation were he won't be able to throw money about, even though I assume the Ajax reserves and youngsters are a pretty good pool to snatch talented players from. I would assume that he will introduce the odd Dutch player into the side - not dissimilar to any foreign coach we had. He's bags of experience as a player and a manager, and is out of a job. Probably has loads of contacts (agents and former players) around Europe. And sure has an understanding of what is expected at Ibrox.

How everything pans out should he come is anyone's guess though. If anything, ST sales will hit a new height should we get him ...
 
De Boer certainly has the stature and the wow factor that might just get the players attention.

His style of play to me is very similar to Brendas and thats worked quite well for him....

Recruitment would be huge for him harder to find players that we can afford that are good enough to play 'dutch' football in the Scottish league (hammer throwers).

A Walter type can find players much easier they just look for British guys with less talent that will give 200% and man up to the Hammer throwers.

Im torn on it to be honest no idea how it would work out.
 
Well written OP but I won't be drawn into the romance of an ex player and big name manager, I think he will be nothing short of an expensive disaster if we appointed him, unfortunately.

As much as I'd love for it to work, I cannot see it happening.

Huge decision and I'm very glad I have no involvement in making it.
 
Excellent post MD87.

Considering where our Club is, de Boer would be a spectacular appointment.

If he had been a roaring success throughout his career, he'd now be lined up for Barca, Bayern, Arsenal etc - not Glasgow.
 
I really rate the man. I have previously been opposed to his appointment, not just due to his potential salary, but what market he could shop in. he is unlikely to secure any real Dutch talent away from their Dutch Clubs as they A. Do not have to sell or B. Players earn more. Derk Boerrigter was one De Boer let go from Ajax to Celtic. He was an expensive disaster, would this be the kind of fringe player he be looking at? I have no idea what his eye for a player outside of Ajax academy is.

His tactics to work needs intelligent players. So if it is to work IMO we would need to keep

John, Tav, candeias, Murphy for width, Dorrans, Docherty, McCorie, Jack and upgrade the rest.
 
imager said:
The main problem with giving the job to FDB is time, we need instant results, he is a project manager who likes to build and develop a team, we can’t afford that luxury.
Click to expand...

In his BT interview a few weeks backs de Boer said it would take "six months" to implement his style of play at a new club.

Is that really much different time wise than if we appointed another manager ?

I think with the January signings (in the main) it's clear Allen wants us to play an attacking passing game. That's half the battle if de Boer comes. He's not coming into a defensive minded squad.

I think the likes of Tav, DJ, Doc, McCrorie, Jack, Dorrans, Goss(if he stays), Murphy would thrive under him.
 
I don't believe there's a queue of potential managers lining up for the job.
I have a feeling FDB would take the job,if offered.

He would have the gravitas to control the dressing room. There are no "big names" to speak of. His record at Ajax is excellent and while the spells at Inter and Palace were not,he hardly had time to get his feet under the table at either club.

It's a qualified yes from me.
 
BrownBrogues said:
I really rate the man. I have previously been opposed to his appointment, not just due to his potential salary, but what market he could shop in. he is unlikely to secure any real Dutch talent away from their Dutch Clubs as they A. Do not have to sell or B. Players earn more. Derk Boerrigter was one De Boer let go from Ajax to Celtic. He was an expensive disaster, would this be the kind of fringe player he be looking at? I have no idea what his eye for a player outside of Ajax academy is.

His tactics to work needs intelligent players. So if it is to work IMO we would need to keep

John, Tav, candeias, Murphy for width, Dorrans, McCorie, Jack and upgrade the rest.
Click to expand...


there's bound to be cracking players not at the top 2 or 3 clubs in Holland. We can compete wage wise with them
 
I think the key thing here is that even if you look at him as a project coach, with a long term vision - that doesn't mean mediocrity until that vision is realised.

A lot of people seem to look at that in black and white and there's lots of shades in between, so it's not as simplistic as that.

Series A and the Premier League are not entirely similar to the SPFL either. It's not as if there's a wealth of quality teams you're up against in order to reach your vision that could accelerate perceived negativity.

There's one team to beat, a good manager with even the current squad - leaves Aberdeen, Hibs and all the rest in our dust.

Anyone that doesn't want FDB needs their head checked to be honest.

He would INSTANTLY improve us before he even recruited one player.
 
SDF said:
In his BT interview a few weeks backs de Boer said it would take "six months" to implement his style of play at a new club.

Is that really much different time wise than if we appointed another manager ?

I think with the January signings (in the main) it's clear Allen wants us to play an attacking passing game. That's half the battle if de Boer comes. He's not coming into a defensive minded squad.

I think the likes of Tav, DJ, Doc, McCrorie, Jack, Dorrans, Goss(if he stays), Murphy would thrive under him.
Click to expand...

I've not seen the interview is it kicking about online?

De Boer would be a HUGE name lets not kid ourselves here.
 
davyloyal said:
So in a nutshell, the fans are happy when the team is winning, but less so when they’re not. Who’d have thought that? WAit until you get here Frank - we storm the barricades when we draw.
Click to expand...

And players get judged on whether they perform in big games or not.

And when they do that it's whether they perform at Ibrox or not.

And if they do that it's whether they can do it vs Celtic.

And if they can do that it's whether they are only a big game player when they can be arsed or they do it every single game. :D
 
CupidStunt said:
I think the key thing here is that even if you look at him as a project coach, with a long term vision - that doesn't mean mediocrity until that vision is realised.

A lot of people seem to look at that in black and white and there's lots of shades in between, so it's not as simplistic as that.

Series A and the Premier League are not entirely similar to the SPFL either. It's not as if there's a wealth of quality teams you're up against in order to reach your vision that could accelerate perceived negativity.

There's one team to beat, a good manager with even the current squad - leaves Aberdeen, Hibs and all the rest in our dust.

Anyone that doesn't want FDB needs their head checked to be honest.

He would INSTANTLY improve us before he even recruited one player.
Click to expand...


I'd say he's got 2 seasons to stop them. Aim for stopping 9 in a row.
 
Great reading OP and some good research there.

I will put my hands up and say that ii just don't know if FDB is the right or wrong man for the job. I can honestly see it going either really well or really badly.

I think it is encouraging to read that he would alter his tactics and didn't seem to be too stubborn in his style of play. I don't think that 4 games with CP can be used as a stick to beat him with on this, he seems to have changed style after 3 games, which isn't exactly religiously sticking to one style over a season a la Warburton. The defensive stats were also encouraging at Ajax.

If he does get the job then i just hope he is a success of course!
 
imager said:
The main problem with giving the job to FDB is time, we need instant results, he is a project manager who likes to build and develop a team, we can’t afford that luxury.
Click to expand...
Not a lot of people on here seem to understand this.
Driven by a glorified name.
Another Paul Le Guen.
A definite NO from me.
 
Great post.

2 years ago I think we would have been pretty much unanimously ecstatic if FdB was in the frame to be our next manager.

I'd argue his Ajax experience is more relevant to us than what has done in the interim... ie we are to the SPFL what Ajax are to the Eredivisie, so he knows the pressure and expectation of being the (struggling) big fish in a small pond. And he succesfully turned that around. Albeit maybe Ajax had better background support and financial resources in comparison to their competitors (Feyenoord/PSV) than we currently have - I don't know the details of that.

With regards adapting to Scottish football - he knows the league already from his short spell with us, and presumably he would have advice from his brother and other contacts (Advocaat) as to what is required to be a success here.

I think the board should at least be speaking to him to see if it would be a go-er.
 
Good read op, thanks for posting.

I would certainly have him in the mix if we could afford to do the deal. Yes his recent spells at Inter and Palace were poor, but I think in fairness there were mitigating factors in both - change in the hierarchy at Inter and Palace being far too trigger happy.

You only need to look at the fact that an EPL stalwart in Roy Hodgson has struggled to turn Palace around with much more time and they are still in relegation trouble, he’s had almost 30 more games plus a good few signings than de Boer got.
 
imager said:
The main problem with giving the job to FDB is time, we need instant results, he is a project manager who likes to build and develop a team, we can’t afford that luxury.
Click to expand...
This could be what hinders us, looking for immediate success rather than building it slowly, if 10iar wasn't hanging over us i think we would be more willing to be patient if we knew it was going in the right direction, they still need to win another 3 to do this so we have time.
 
Really hope we get FdB wanted him since Warburton left and hopefully this summer will be the time!
 
Ter said:
I think more concerning is how short his spells at Inter and Palace have been with reports of dressing room unrest at both. We can't afford another expensive mistake.
Click to expand...

We wouldnt be able to get him if he succeeded in England and Italy though. If we want a big name we need to accept its going to be someone rebuilding their reputation. We cant get top managers to come to the SPFL or even afford them if they would.

FF seems to highlight reasons not to go for a manager when those reasons are the only thing allowing us to even try and get them in the 1st place.
 
Very good OP. Allows people to form a proper opinion rather than "he was sacked early at inter and Palace."
 
TN8 said:
We might not get his style of play implemented right away, but as we keep saying with the players and resources at our disposal there's no reason why a tactically aware manager shouldn't be beating the teams in this league most weeks, even while he is still trying to implement new styles and formations longer term. He won't stand there on the touchline for 80 minutes til someone gets injured before making a change when it isn't working.

He won the league at the first attempt at Ajax having taken over in December. He'll know in no uncertain terms that he needs to get results right away.
Click to expand...
You mean like Paul Le Guen.
You are driven by the name.
He actually would be more stubborn than PLG.
Would never work short term in the Scottish game.
 
I’d be worried about rumours of losing dressing rooms and being part of a split in thEuro 96 camp.
 
Would love FDB to be our next manager

Alot of folk saying he needs time to settle, get players used to his tactics, 6 moths etc

With the squad we have and any signings we bring in over the summer, a manager of his level shouldn't need months of training to start winning games, it might take 6 months to get everyone playing the way he wants but it doesnt mean 6 months of not winning games.

FDB comes in and we will see an improvement straight away.
 
Thanks for posting op. Some amount of research you've put in to that.

If he is a genuine candidate, I'm really torn on him. The 'project' side to him is a concern for me, as is the worry of him trying to get his players to play a style that they're just not good enough to produce (what the general feeling was at Crystal Palace). From the information above though it seems he can be quite flexible in his formations and certainly wouldn't be another Warburton.
 
Big Bawz Baloo said:
You mean like Paul Le Guen.
You are driven by the name.
He actually would be more stubborn than PLG.
Would never work short term in the Scottish game.
Click to expand...

Unlike Le Guen, he now has 2 big blots on his CV and knows his next job is crucial. If he makes a mess of his next one his career could be over.

So no, I don't believe he'd be as stubborn as Le Guen if things aren't going his way. He knows he has to get things right.
 
Ter said:
I think more concerning is how short his spells at Inter and Palace have been with reports of dressing room unrest at both. We can't afford another expensive mistake.
Click to expand...

I understand where you are coming from here but our dressing room wont be full of self-entitled tits who think they are billy big-baws (for the most part!)

I would like to think that 99% of our players would have the respect for FDB he deserves and be willing to listen to his ideas, tactics and plans.
 
Three at the back would suit Tav and John/Wallace if he tried that system here. It appears strange he tried a different system after Ajax.

I assume teams line up defensively against Ajax as they do against us. He repeatedly won the league. Sounds great.

Our previous Dutch manager was a success.

Lets get him in.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Latest posts

Back
Top