Gary Mac - Tav the right man to captain Gers

Show me where i said any of that, you can't cause i didn't.
I stated McGregor was a winner which Tavernier most certainly is not & he's failed as a Rangers captain.
It's time someone else was given the responsibility, it might even do Tavernier a favour.
If we had a squad filled with leaders, I would be all for passing the armband IF it did an Amoruso to him and pushed him onto another level - and if it did, he wouldnt be here long and thats the plain fact of it. Tavernier gets a really hard time on here and I can understand some of it - when he makes a mistake, hold my hands up and say yeah ok he deserves it - there are games where he is blameless and this forum is still full of bile towards him.
McGregor is a winner simply because he played in a winning team - was he a winner at Hull? Was he a winner Besiktas or Cardiff? Much like a previous post, if Tavernier played under Walter instead of say Broadfoot or Whittaker - would that make him a winner? Just because he was in a winning team.
Take Mcgregors medal haul out of it, he really is just a moaning faced guy lol its not a winning mentality - its a moaning mentality (not a bad thing). Plenty of great players hated losing, and moaned about it, still didnt make them winners - just depends on the team that they are lucky enough to play in.
 
I'm not convinced but that's my own fault for expecting every Rangers captain to be Richard Gough.

If the captaincy was getting changed it would have been done by now as Tav has been captain since SG took over, so will have to trust the management team on this one.
 
If the immediate goal was winning the title when Gerrard came in, then you are right, he has not got it right.

If you take the realistic approach, in that his goal was to close the gap between the sides progressively, then I do not see how you can argue he has failed to do so.

This season is key. The first half of last season showed a very strong step forwards but post Christmas was a shambles. He needs to get a full season out of the side and he needs to pick up trophies. If he does that, he will have done it in a realistic timescale and arguably faster than he had a right to, given the disparity in spending power between the clubs involved.

A blanket 'They have not got it right' absolutely ignores the starting point when he came in. For now. Another season like last and I would probably be verging on wanting to let the management team go, unless we lost both finals on pens and the title on GD.

Get what your saying but getting papped out of Cups by Hearts and Aberdeen isn’t getting it right no matter how it’s dressed up. It’s getting it wrong.
 
Go back eight or nine years.
Would you have preferred Broadfoot over Whittaker or Hutton?
Would you really have preferred Papac over Numan or even Robertson?
The playing style you’re championing, would you agree such a player would be almost redundant for seventy minutes of the game?
The position the advancing full back is vacating, would you agree that, unless there is an opposition player actually in possession, it isn’t an immediate danger?
The position can be covered and protected by others.

Aye, I get what you're saying. In our current 4-3-3 system a Papac or Broadfoot type wouldn't flourish but then I'm not daft on 4-3-3 all the time.

They did their job in the rigid, defensive shape that Walter wanted them to play.

Was Broadfoot a better footballer than Hutton? Not a chance.

But would we have got to the UEFA Cup Final with a rampaging full back like Hutton who wouldn't stick to the shape? Arguably not.

Maybe I'm too old school and not moving with the times but seeing a full back make the basic errors that Tav makes at times infuriates me. Short passes, missed or misplaced headers, trying to overplay it when pressed. Not for me.
 
Would love to think and see Tav be the man to lead us to 55 this season.. but when you take a minute and think about what’s at stake this coming year... how can you say he’s the man to lead us and he has the hunger and desire to win?! Where was that when we needed it after New Year!!
 
NeVeR cApTaIn MaTeRiAl!

Say the Rangers da's who think a captain runs about shouting and bawling constantly.

:rolleyes:
 
People wont realise how good tav is until hes gone sadly. Always getting a hard time.

I keep reading this but personally I think it’s nonsense. That’ll only happen if we replace him with another player who doesn’t possess the mentality to cut it at Rangers. If we actually replace him with a winner who’ll roll up his sleeves and retain his composure when the going gets tough, then he won’t be missed much.
 
I keep reading this but personally I think it’s nonsense. That’ll only happen if we replace him with another player who doesn’t possess the mentality to cut it at Rangers. If we actually replace him with a winner who’ll roll up his sleeves and retain his composure when the going gets tough, then he won’t be missed much.
If you are to replace him with a player of better quality then you are going to have to pay at least 5 million plus. We cant afford that
 
If you are to replace him with a player of better quality then you are going to have to pay at least 5 million plus. We cant afford that

You’re not though. Barisic cost a lot less than that and he’s at least as good as Tav is at his best. You just need to scout well, choose carefully and make sure you’re buying a player who has the right mentality and tools to cope with intense pressure. It’s the biggest flaw within the playing squad itself, not enough players who can hack the pressure and expectation of having to beat the other 10 teams in the league.
 
You’re not though. Barisic cost a lot less than that and he’s at least as good as Tav is at his best. You just need to scout well, choose carefully and make sure you’re buying a player who has the right mentality and tools to cope with intense pressure. It’s the biggest flaw within the playing squad itself, not enough players who can hack the pressure and expectation of having to beat the other 10 teams in the league.
Both are similar if you ask me. Good going forward, can be dodgy at the back. I just think he gets more stick than others
 
Both are similar if you ask me. Good going forward, can be dodgy at the back. I just think he gets more stick than others

He does mate, but it’s because he said been here for years and we’ve been seeing it for so long now. I think he’s had enough chances, and he’s 28 years old so this is him, this is the player he is he’s not going to change now.

Like I said, he’s a really likeable guy and to his credit he certainly doesn’t hide. But he does choke and he does lose all composure, time and again, and being loyal to the the players in the side with similar mentalities (never mind ones that have been at it for 5 seasons), is not going to help us win silverware.

There’s just too many fans who pick a side or take a stance with regards to certain players and won’t deviate from it regardless, it’s tedious reading the excuses (not necessarily from you by the way), all the while there’s barley a poster who can produce a really credible argument for why he should remain as a first pick beyond lazily rhyming off his stats for goals and assists. Even then you’re not getting a credible debate because people will quote you a goal tally that includes a glut of goals scored at championship level, along with an abnormally high percentage of penalties in respect of the SPL tally. But by and large they’ll flat out ignore the fact he folds when the pressure is ramped up and the team underperforms.
 
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Remember his words in the programme in March?


He's not a captain and after last seasons performance he's lucky he is still in the first team.

We need a right back that's as good as Borna was at his best last season. Good in attack but more importantly good defensively as well. Solid all round.

I also remember an interview with Tav in Feb whre his attitude was really defeatist, almost conceding the title. Madness with 2 games against them, a game in hand and a plenty matches still to play.

This 100%.

He has more experience on losing than he does in winning.
 
Only problem I’ve got is chewing that feckin gum when getting interviewed. Think it’s disrespectful.
 
If the immediate goal was winning the title when Gerrard came in, then you are right, he has not got it right.

If you take the realistic approach, in that his goal was to close the gap between the sides progressively, then I do not see how you can argue he has failed to do so.

This season is key. The first half of last season showed a very strong step forwards but post Christmas was a shambles. He needs to get a full season out of the side and he needs to pick up trophies. If he does that, he will have done it in a realistic timescale and arguably faster than he had a right to, given the disparity in spending power between the clubs involved.

A blanket 'They have not got it right' absolutely ignores the starting point when he came in. For now. Another season like last and I would probably be verging on wanting to let the management team go, unless we lost both finals on pens and the title on GD.
I think after two seasons the board would have been looking for at least a couple of trophies and a couple more finals, as well as being closer in the title race. I appreciate this season just past was cancelled unfairly so we may well have closed the gap but the facts are we capitulated after Christmas two years in a row. We completely bottled it and showed no sign of turning it around.

Tavernier has been here for five years and captained us for two. We have won nothing in that time. I've seen no evidence he's a great captain and no evidence he's going to improve this season on the same mistakes he's continually made year after year.
 
I am not sure he is the right man to be captain. But there are not many alternatives staring us in the face.
 
Get what your saying but getting papped out of Cups by Hearts and Aberdeen isn’t getting it right no matter how it’s dressed up. It’s getting it wrong.
John Greig, the man voted greatest ever Ranger was captain when celtic won 9 in a row. He was a winner, did it stop celtic? No, they still won 9 in a row. It's the strength of the team that wins you leagues. Screaming Captains might drag you over the line in the odd game but it ain't winning you a league if the team ain't up to it. Recruit better players not changing the captain will make the biggest difference in trying to win the league.
 
John Greig, the man voted greatest ever Ranger was captain when celtic won 9 in a row. He was a winner, did it stop celtic? No, they still won 9 in a row. It's the strength of the team that wins you leagues. Screaming Captains might drag you over the line in the odd game but it ain't winning you a league if the team ain't up to it. Recruit better players not changing the captain will make the biggest difference in trying to win the league.

Honestly no offence fella, but that isn’t relevant in any way. John Grieg was a winner as a player, he was not the same kind of winner as a manager. Playing football and coaching football are two entirely different things, that’s why Diego Maradona is the greatest footballer who ever lived, and a shite manager.
 
I’m utterly bemused by the fact that Gerrard hasn’t been able to give our club a true Captain.

ive said time and again I don’t see Tav ever being a winning Rangers Captain and that is why it would be ideal to see him concentrate on his own game.
 
Honestly no offence fella, but that isn’t relevant in any way. John Grieg was a winner as a player, he was not the same kind of winner as a manager. Playing football and coaching football are two entirely different things, that’s why Diego Maradona is the greatest footballer who ever lived, and a shite manager.
Who said anything about coaching. Greig was playing when Celtic won 9 in a row.
 
Europeans think we are mental for how much of an importance British people place on the captaincy. On the continent the armband goes to either the best player or the longest serving or most popular first team player. Sure, you end up with actual leaders getting the armband from time to time but it's not as highly regarded or revered there. I think Italy is the only country that holds it in a similar esteem to us and even then not every team does.

I like Tav as a player, a big fan of what he brings to the side overall, despite his flaws and shortcomings. I think we've got a lack of leaders everywhere in the side at the moment which makes his job harder. Goldson, Davis and Jack being the only other three who shoulder any kind of responsibility on the pitch. Looking around the rest of the squad we've not got many. Think Hagi is one of the few in squad, who has at least captained a team to a trophy, a few have won things, but I'm unsure if they wore the armband while doing so.
 
Oh well. First chance the management have to show what lessons they’ve learned from last season and they’ve flunked it. He shouldn’t be anywhere near our team, never mind the captaincy.

Looks like we can expect another re-run of the last 2 seasons then.

Nice to see people aren’t overreacting before the season has even started...
 
Nice to see people are prepared to accept a re-run of the last 2 seasons before the season has even started...

Just because I’m not greeting like a wean at Tavernier still being captain doesn’t mean I’m prepared to accept a re-run of the last two seasons, genius.
 
Just because I’m not greeting like a wean at Tavernier still being captain doesn’t mean I’m prepared to accept a re-run of the last two seasons, genius.
Yes it does. You don’t think it’s a terrible decision. You don’t think the management have got it wrong. You don’t think this is a bad sign.

You don’t think...
 
Yes it does. You don’t think it’s a terrible decision. You don’t think the management have got it wrong. You don’t think this is a bad sign.

You don’t think...

Yes, because I’m sure the decision to give a certain player a piece of fabric to wear on his arm is the one and only deciding factor in our whole season. Never mind other players, or transfers, or tactics, or anything like that...

Get a grip, I’m calling this right now, whether Tavernier has the captain’s armband or not will make literally no difference in how we do next season. If we don’t win anything next season, it will be the fault of the team and the manager/coaches not being good enough, not because of Tavernier being captain.
 
Yes, because I’m sure the decision to give a certain player a piece of fabric to wear on his arm is the one and only deciding factor in our whole season. Never mind other players, or transfers, or tactics, or anything like that...
Strawman argument, literally no-one has said that. Stop making things up to support your weak argument.

Changing captain would be simple and it would be an illustration that the management realise that things have to change from the last 2 seasons and that the culture of failure in the dressing room will no longer be tolerated. They have failed to do that, indeed they have done the exact opposite and given him a glowing endorsement instead. If you can’t see that this does not auger well for the season ahead then I pity you for your naivety.
 
Strawman argument, literally no-one has said that. Stop making things up to support your weak argument.

Changing captain would be simple and it would be an illustration that the management realise that things have to change from the last 2 seasons and that the culture of failure in the dressing room will no longer be tolerated. They have failed to do that, indeed they have done the exact opposite and given him a glowing endorsement instead. If you can’t see that this does not auger well for the season ahead then I pity you for your naivety.

It’s not a weak argument, it’s legitimate when you see the level of focused anger in this thread about him being captain as if it is even mildly important, such as morons crying about a “re-run of the previous two seasons”, which is melodramatic bollocks. I also like the fact you accuse me of “making things up” while deliberately ignoring the second half of my post, which expands on what I meant.

To conclude, stop whining like a bitch, the season isn’t ruined/decided on a decision like this.
 
Strawman argument, literally no-one has said that. Stop making things up to support your weak argument.

Changing captain would be simple and it would be an illustration that the management realise that things have to change from the last 2 seasons and that the culture of failure in the dressing room will no longer be tolerated. They have failed to do that, indeed they have done the exact opposite and given him a glowing endorsement instead. If you can’t see that this does not auger well for the season ahead then I pity you for your naivety.

What if that backfires and we end up with a squad of unhappy players or a split dressing room before a ball is kicked? It's still the same squad of players and none of them have shown much in the way of leadership qualities in the last two seasons. It doesn't lay down any kind of marker to the squad because the current squad lost out on all of the honours on offer, just as much as the club captain did in the last 2 seasons.

The squad has failed us twice in two seasons. Changing the captain doesn't fix that. Instead we just all aim our vitriol at Ryan Jack or Connor Goldson or Allan McGregor or Steven Davis. Or whoever else Follow Follow arbitrarily decides is a better fit for captain than Tav is on any given month.
 
Tell you what, I genuinely cannot wait for the season to begin, so that I don’t have to constantly read through mind-numbing threads like this one.

I’m counting down the seconds, frankly.
 
Tell you what, I genuinely cannot wait for the season to begin, so that I don’t have to constantly read through mind-numbing threads like this one.

I’m counting down the seconds, frankly.

If we keep the same players that repeatedly let us down and only add a defensive mid and a winger and a striker as a few posters have said will happen then be prepared for the worse on FF.

The deja vu will be uncanny and there will be a repeat of the last 2 seasons.
The difference is the manager will probably lose his job.
Most of us are desperate for SG to be a success, I know I fucking am, however he has to show he is learning from his mistakes and knows how to change things.
First chance he had to do this him and McAllister have done the opposite, hence the disappointment with so many posters.
 
GARY McALLISTER insists James Tavernier is the right captain for Rangers.

Tav came under fire at times last season, with some fans calling for the defender to be stripped of the armband.
But McAllister insists he, and gaffer Steven Gerrard, have total faith in the full-back and he will be vital to any success in this campaign.

Rangers won just two of their last six domestic games before lockdown — ending their league and Scottish Cup dream.
McAllister says they can’t afford to do the same this season with Celtic out to win ten in a row.

He said: “We trust the captain.
“He’s set some very high standards in terms of goal scoring and assists.

“You look at his numbers and what he provides for us and he’s a key player.


“A lot of our attacking structure — you don’t need to be a rocket scientist to see where our game is built. He plays a massive part in that and I like that he takes on that responsibility.

“We do ask him to go and go and over the piece, I think he’s a good captain.

“Everyone has to embrace what is a massive challenge to stop a team from winning ten leagues in a row but we’re up for the battle.

“Making a good start is imperative and we’ve got to come out the traps and start the season well and then maintain it.
“There’s been a lot of good — last season in particular there was some excellent stuff — but lockdown gave all of us a chance to reflect on the four or five results that caused the gap and we want to put that right and make it super competitive.”

One man who will be vital to Rangers’ success will be Ryan Kent.
The winger arrived in a £7million deal from Liverpool last summer following a stunning loan spell.

But despite some key performances and goals, the 23-year-old never seemed to win over some of his critics.

McAllister said: “Ryan’s one of our big players and criticism is part of being a big player at a big club.

“When results go the other way you tend to look at the star player within the group and he’s one of our blue-chip players.

“But I’ve known Ryan for a while and even though there were times I felt the criticism was a bit unfair I didn’t see a player hiding.

“He’s a young man and he’s come back looking sharp so a wee run of form or goals and he’ll be fine.
“We’re now seeing a player, who has loads of potential and can still improve, but who has become a man. And as he becomes mature, you will see more mature performances.”
Despite restoring Rangers’ reputation in Europe, Gerrard has failed to win a trophy in his first two seasons in charge.

McAllister knows how desperate his former Liverpool team-mate is to bring success to Ibrox but they will be judged on how many trophies they win.

He added: “That hunger and desire to win — he’s got it even more so now.

“He’s worked his entire life and career at those levels.
“We’ve got to win. You can break it all down but the easiest way to say things is ‘we’ve got to try to win’.

“We will only be judged on winning.”
Tav is a good man. He is not a good or inspiring captain.
 
Tav is a good man. He is not a good or inspiring captain.
Your right MrS and there lies the problem. A captain has to be a leader who commands respect from his fellow team mates and who will inspire and lift his team and lead by example. Sadly Tav is not that person, to me Gerrard has to go and get a leader who fits this bill. The truth is he needs a team of leaders who will fight for one and another, the whole spine of your team should be built around leaders, who will never back down and never know defeat. Our Rangers teams of the past have had this and I feel we lack this at the moment, there is no doubt that Tav can do a job for the team, but he must be relieved from the captaincy. A Rangers Captain should never be saying they can't handle the pressure, that goes with the territory, we are Rangers for Christ Sake, there is pressure 24/7 at our club and that is the way it should be. We are not a tin pot club that might win a trophy every ten years or so, we go for every trophy every season, not to compete but to win, finishing second means nothing to our proud Club.
 
It’s not a weak argument, it’s legitimate when you see the level of focused anger in this thread about him being captain as if it is even mildly important, such as morons crying about a “re-run of the previous two seasons”, which is melodramatic bollocks. I also like the fact you accuse me of “making things up” while deliberately ignoring the second half of my post, which expands on what I meant.

To conclude, stop whining like a bitch, the season isn’t ruined/decided on a decision like this.
The second part of your post was merely stating the bleeding obvious, which you seem to be taking great joy in proving you understand. No-one said the captaincy would be the only difference between winning and losing the league next season, but it will make a difference, maybe even a critical difference in just one match would be enough.. My point was (read it out loud if it helps you) that McAllister arbitrarily making a statement backing the captain unequivocally isn't a good sign that the management team understand what went wrong for the last 2 seasons, given that Tavernier at best splits opinion as to his merits. It is plain to anyone who watched us in either season under Gerrard that we lack leadership on the pitch at crucial times. It is the captain's job to provide this and Tavernier has failed to do that.

As for "stopping whining like a bitch", I'll continue to post as I see fit. If such arguments are too cerebral for you to understand, please feel free to ignore and continue to play to your playmates in the uber-staunch, ultra loyal gallery.
 
What if that backfires and we end up with a squad of unhappy players or a split dressing room before a ball is kicked? It's still the same squad of players and none of them have shown much in the way of leadership qualities in the last two seasons. It doesn't lay down any kind of marker to the squad because the current squad lost out on all of the honours on offer, just as much as the club captain did in the last 2 seasons.

The squad has failed us twice in two seasons. Changing the captain doesn't fix that. Instead we just all aim our vitriol at Ryan Jack or Connor Goldson or Allan McGregor or Steven Davis. Or whoever else Follow Follow arbitrarily decides is a better fit for captain than Tav is on any given month.
Again, no-one is saying that changing the captain would fix everything. But it would be a start
 
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