General Meeting: Club 1872

mdingwall

Administrator
So you don't believe we should have representation on the board. Mark thinks there is absolutely no need for club1872 as we now have a board made up of Rangers fans, why nominate himself then?

I'd much prefer it if those trying to implement change actually bought into the ethos of club 1872.
I’ve never said that.
 

ibroxbound

Well-Known Member
Ok mate,thanks for providing some details,I haven't read every single post on this thread but having scanned over a fair few,it just seems like a lot of shouting.
Outwith the King share purchase,I had no idea about the other concerns and accusations.
I am interested in keeping up to date with what is going on as this will impact on my decision to continue my monthly donation.
I've not trying to be a smart arse but without being ITK where can you find out what's going on here?

Cmon chap, do you really believe this pish?
It just happens to be true.
 

RfcIbrox

Well-Known Member
No, it won't as the Club will issue more and more shares which !872 will not be able to keep up its % as most will have stopped donating
It looks like 1872 is becoming pointless in the current dynamics and partly because the way business has been conducted, in which case they need to eventually be asking what folk want done with their money and that includes the option of returning it to them. From the evidence on here it either needs totally reconstituted with missions and behaviour aligned or it needs scrapped. There seems to be a place for a large fan group who can collectively invest in projects for the benefit of the club and fans but fan ownership or board representation looks dead in the water for the foreseeable.
 

colin stein 9

Well-Known Member
This is the problem. The 3 directors should resign for the good of the organisation. The longer they are in place the weaker it becomes.

Rev. MacQuarrie’s letter was released on FF on 26th May (and there were clearly many causes for concern prior to that). Since that date the numbers of legacy subscribers as per their own website has fallen from 1,571 to 1,521. It’s hard to imagine their hasn’t been a similar fall in the number of ordinary subscribers.

What has been the response to this by the incumbent directors at Club 1872? Absolutely none! They cannot be unaware of the increasing concerns about their conduct in office but see no need to address these concerns especially with those who are members of the organisation. Meanwhile the numbers of subscribing members will continually fall, less members means less income, their target of 20,000 legacy members appears pie in the sky and their ability to participate in ordinary share issues will be impaired thus any influence they may have had with Rangers will reduce.

What is more important to them? Club 1872, it’s members, Rangers Football Club or just themselves and the position they hold?
 

Sunnyvale_Loyal

Well-Known Member
Does Chris Graham have an axe to grind against the current board after they cut off the gravy train that Dave King allowed him?
Yes. Chris Graham wanted David Graham's job, plus he is no longer receiving the £60k per annum he was paid for his assistance with Club1872. Bear this in mind when you read people asking what Chris Graham has done that is so bad.
 

looway

Well-Known Member
Rev. MacQuarrie’s letter was released on FF on 26th May (and there were clearly many causes for concern prior to that). Since that date the numbers of legacy subscribers as per their own website has fallen from 1,571 to 1,521. It’s hard to imagine their hasn’t been a similar fall in the number of ordinary subscribers.

What has been the response to this by the incumbent directors at Club 1872? Absolutely none! They cannot be unaware of the increasing concerns about their conduct in office but see no need to address these concerns especially with those who are members of the organisation. Meanwhile the numbers of subscribing members will continually fall, less members means less income, their target of 20,000 legacy members appears pie in the sky and their ability to participate in ordinary share issues will be impaired thus any influence they may have had with Rangers will reduce.

What is more important to them? Club 1872, it’s members, Rangers Football Club or just themselves and the position they hold?
50 members lost in a couple of weeks and ongoing. Between £500 and 1k a month in subscriptions.
 

High Society

Well-Known Member
Guys the key issue here is that this 3 person Board is unaccountable, immovable for at least 3 years and always holds a majority unless they split up.
in addition we have Chris unelected and paid a small fortune to advise / influence / lead the Board of C1872.
This needs to change for C1872 to survive never mind achieve the original objectives
 

sherbrook_loyal

Administrator
Staff member
Guys the key issue here is that this 3 person Board is unaccountable, immovable for at least 3 years and always holds a majority unless they split up.
in addition we have Chris unelected and paid a small fortune to advise / influence / lead the Board of C1872.
This needs to change for C1872 to survive never mind achieve the original objectives

This!
 

Robert Marshall

Well-Known Member
Guys the key issue here is that this 3 person Board is unaccountable, immovable for at least 3 years and always holds a majority unless they split up.
in addition we have Chris unelected and paid a small fortune to advise / influence / lead the Board of C1872.
This needs to change for C1872 to survive never mind achieve the original objectives
VONC is the way
 

Robert Marshall

Well-Known Member
I think having a go at Chris Grahame for supporting in the background is fucking insane.
Every post you put on seems to suggest that you are friendly with Chris and in your opinion a good guy, that's fair enough.
Why did you not know he was working 1872 from the back and do you think that it was correct to hide that fact?
Do you believe he was right to be paid £60K a year to facilitate this control?
 

Barbarossa

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
Let me just say I am eternally thankful for Dave King and all he did for us in 2015 and onwards. That will never be forgotten.

However, some things appear to have happened/happening:

- Dave King does not get on with the current RIFC board, at all

- Chris Graham is/was an unelected power at C1872. He was paid by RIFC or associations, to influence C1872 at King’s? behest. His payment stopped when Park took over.

- Self interest has taken over and the board of C1872 plus Graham, can no longer be trusted with using the fans money in the correct manner. The way it operates and makes decisions, has been hidden and taken away from its members.

- The purchase of Kings shares, by C1872, now appears to have the purpose of King getting his money back but, also retaining a controlling interest in RIFC, aided and abetted by Graham and the C1872. This is not what members signed up for.

A VONC and the removal of the 3 directors plus CG is the only option now.
 

cornholio

Well-Known Member
Perhaps asking the CIC to intervene for a short period may help?

Surely the evidence from past Directors would build a case, as well as the current comms?

They could appoint a neutral (and tbh, a commercial head with no directive other than to build the membership might just be what is needed now) to ensure a good practise baseline is established and a recovery plan put in place
 

Northampton_Loyalist

Well-Known Member
Let me just say I am eternally thankful for Dave King and all he did for us in 2015 and onwards. That will never be forgotten.

However, some things appear to have happened/happening:

- Dave King does not get on with the current RIFC board, at all

- Chris Graham is/was an unelected power at C1872. He was paid by RIFC or associations, to influence C1872 at King’s? behest. His payment stopped when Park took over.

- Self interest has taken over and the board of C1872 plus Graham, can no longer be trusted with using the fans money in the correct manner. The way it operates and makes decisions, has been hidden and taken away from its members.

- The purchase of Kings shares, by C1872, now appears to have the purpose of King getting his money back but, also retaining a controlling interest in RIFC, aided and abetted by Graham and the C1872. This is not what members signed up for.

A VONC and the removal of the 3 directors plus CG is the only option now.
I think people are in danger of creating messes that do not exist. There are more than enough that do.

Stating here that King selling his shares to C1872 appears to be him trying to keep a 'controlling interest' in Rangers is absolutely bonkers on every level.


King has always banged the drum of supporter involvement at the club and it is far more likely that he wanted to see C1872 develop into a genuine vehicle for that happening and so decided to help from behind the scenes, along with others from the club. The thought that C1872 sprung out of antecedent groups overnight and with zero input from the club or at least figures within the club is fanciful. The fact it was announced as coming into existence at Ibrox, has offices there and the quotes from Stewart Robertson and others show that the formation of C1872 was wholly supported by the club. I cannot say for certain that it is the case, but I would be stunned if someone claimed that there were no positive moves from the club to help facilitate the formation of C1872. All quite rightly too, by the way.

It is far more likely that he started off helping and kind of left it to go in it's own direction. It is also far more likely that certain individuals have perverted the governance while maintaining a reasonably steady main direction of travel. It is far more likely that CG has ties with King, who believes that C1872 is the right vehicle for his shares to go to, being a supporter led initiative. The offer from King to sell his shares is a very good offer and it goes a ways towards C1872 fulfilling it's main aims. It is also, unfortunately, not well timed given the fact the club are still issuing shares and that the support can buy direct. The fact King is willing to wait is great and C1872 really, really, need to get themselves sorted and buying as many newly issued shares as they can before looking to enter the private market again.


If King wanted to maintain a 'controlling interest' in the club, having a shadow director and 3 other directors in charge of a supporters group who could all or individually be ousted by legal action, EGM, VONC etc and who have a de-facto natural life expectancy anyway would be just about the worst way to go about it. C1872 do not have a place on the Rangers board, they do not have enough shares currently to veto anything and even if they did reach 25%+1, calling that a 'controlling interest' would be such a misnomer anyway that it would not be worthy of debate.




Everything, absolutely every single little concern in the whole thing boils down to a very, very simple concept though;

If King IS trying to keep some sneaky, nefarious control of the club by leveraging supporter cash, it is the duty of the C1872 board to prevent that.

If CG is pulling strings behind them, either for himself or for King, it is the duty of the board of C1872 to prevent that.

If C1872 is being run in directions that suit any individuals rather than the wider support, it is the duty of the board of C1872 to prevent that.

If the support as a whole are being leveraged by people moving C1872 in certain directions, it is the duty of the board of C1872 to prevent that.

If there are NO external influences at play and things are just being badly administered, it is, you guessed it, the duty of the board of C1872 to prevent that.



Ultimately, every single issue, problem, gripe, grievance or complaint currently either stems from 3 individuals or they are at fault for allowing it. There is absolutely no escaping that basic fact.
 

mully10

Well-Known Member
Perhaps asking the CIC to intervene for a short period may help?

Surely the evidence from past Directors would build a case, as well as the current comms?

They could appoint a neutral (and tbh, a commercial head with no directive other than to build the membership might just be what is needed now) to ensure a good practise baseline is established and a recovery plan put in place
CIC will not get involved unless it is absolute criminality taking place and even then they may not even step up. They favour a light touch approach approach and aren't interested in being involved in what they will perceive as a squabble.
 

Amato Amore

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
Robert, he was on TV defending Rangers which seemed nearly every night at one point against Spiers lies Tom English at al. You watched it as much as I did. His chin was out he got abuse threats and all sorts.

His previous job if I heard right as an independent FA. He has a base financial background and by %^*& did he ha due the mhedia well.

they waited for him until he was announced as a director then went for him on tweets relating to Charlie hebdo. The club and traynor let him go under a bus.

don’t play daft Robert it’s beneath you.
Totally agree that CG was at the forefront of defending us and I appreciated it then as I do now.

trying to avoid bringing personalities into this as it’s not helpful.

bottom line for me as a life member and subscriber is the current governance. It needs to be sorted if we want c1872 to play the role it can.

they should not have agreed to buy DKs shared without consulting members

anyone who makes decisions should be voted in to do so by members

I was also really disappointed that the organisation was silent over George square. Astonishing that the vehicle we back to provide us with a voice said he haw
 

Radgey

Well-Known Member
Is it too late to add your name and C1872 number to this?

I haven't got the time to read all 10 pages but I'm not happy with the way things are currently being run within the organisation.

Thanks.
 

LJ50

Well-Known Member
I don’t think so, I’m also glad he got a salary for his role. I’d have had him head of PR from the off.
I can say I appreciated Chris putting his head above the parapet in 2012-2013. I did think he was often given more credit than his media performances merited (that clip with Spiers, for example looked brilliant…with the YouTube clip edit showing the Tweet. At the time, Chris just said “you did say cheating”. It wasn’t the headshot it was made out to be after the fact). But I didn’t have any animosity towards him. I didn’t know him except from on the Cropod, TV and his username on here.

But I have no idea why anyone would think he would be head of PR for RFC. Really smart PR people don’t leave the Twitter trail Chris did. If, and I emphasise if, the allegations that he has been doing C1872’s PR are true…then that’s even more evidence against his being capable. His PR skills appear to be that he’s a little more articulate than the average fan. I‘d put myself in that camp too but I’d let me nowhere near running the PR for the business I sit on the Board of, let alone a business like Rangers that, whilst a fraction of the size, is much more high profile.

His qualifications for being involved with the Rangers board seems to be a relationship with Dave King. That’s it’s. He doesn’t appear to have experience managing large businesses or any other skills that would make him a leading candidate for really any role. And he can’t claim to represent the fans as he’s never stood for election by the members of C1872.
 

Prod Wallace

Well-Known Member
King consistently has said being Chairman was an honour, but also a duty that he took on when he didn't necessarily have appetite for it. He led with distinction and stepped away in manner that did not appear to be any way acrimonious.

I think though he may have kept his powder dry regarding the sale of his shares to C1872, and guesswork is that perhaps hasn't sat well with the board, and worse ram counter to their own share plans. The trade off though for King leaving seems to be though when you are out you are out. No half measures and apart from shares DK no longer has a hand at the tiller.

DK has then said, fine I will postpone my offer and let the club do what it's doing. But King has a plan and he strikes me as someone that if he wants something be gets it done eventually.

DK has stood up publicly and said he wanted to give up the chairmanship.

I find it at best poor judgement, and at worst mentally challenged level behaviour for anyone to be insinuating DK has stepped aside, only to lead a charge to get power via the backdoor.

He had all the power he could ever want, and he only ever used it for the clubs benefit. He voluntarily let go of that power.

It makes no sense that he still wants power, why would he want the hassle?

King wants fans to have his shares. He also more than likely wants his money, as when you are out you are out.
 

mully10

Well-Known Member
I can say I appreciated Chris putting his head above the parapet in 2012-2013. I did think he was often given more credit than his media performances merited (that clip with Spiers, for example looked brilliant…with the YouTube clip edit showing the Tweet. At the time, Chris just said “you did say cheating”. It wasn’t the headshot it was made out to be after the fact). But I didn’t have any animosity towards him. I didn’t know him except from on the Cropod, TV and his username on here.

But I have no idea why anyone would think he would be head of PR for RFC. Really smart PR people don’t leave the Twitter trail Chris did. If, and I emphasise if, the allegations that he has been doing C1872’s PR are true…then that’s even more evidence against his being capable. His PR skills appear to be that he’s a little more articulate than the average fan. I‘d put myself in that camp too but I’d let me nowhere near running the PR for the business I sit on the Board of, let alone a business like Rangers that, whilst a fraction of the size, is much more high profile.

His qualifications for being involved with the Rangers board seems to be a relationship with Dave King. That’s it’s. He doesn’t appear to have experience managing large businesses or any other skills that would make him a leading candidate for really any role. And he can’t claim to represent the fans as he’s never stood for election by the members of C1872.
I can assure you from my time on the club 1872 board he was very much involved in the issuing of statements, cannot speak for recently but would be very surprised if he is still not doing it with Laura as the front, she is very deferential to him.
 

Robert Marshall

Well-Known Member
Wasn’t he a Liverpool fan growing up ?

This might be total nonsense but wasn’t he also barred or asked to leave The Louden one night after an “incident” ? @Robert Marshall ??
Just seen this, I know of no incident about Chris being asked to leave.
I have only spoken to him a couple of times and never had a cross word with him.
I have nothing personal against Chris or any of the other three, I just want 1872 run properly with Transparency and the Members treated like Members
 

High Society

Well-Known Member
Robert, he was on TV defending Rangers which seemed nearly every night at one point against Spiers lies Tom English at al. You watched it as much as I did. His chin was out he got abuse threats and all sorts.

His previous job if I heard right as an independent FA. He has a base financial background and by %^*& did he ha due the mhedia well.

they waited for him until he was announced as a director then went for him on tweets relating to Charlie hebdo. The club and traynor let him go under a bus.

don’t play daft Robert it’s beneath you.
Firstly he still is an FA and it’s not his “previous job” He was never full time for C1872 despite being paid an amazing salary for part time work.
The Charlie Hebdo tweets were not isolated and at the time there was a high level terrorist threat. the club didn’t threw Chris under a bus because they had no choice. He should have warned the Club about his tweets.
 

High Society

Well-Known Member
The club bottled at the first challenge in the new set up. It took some time until we grew a set again.
Again you’re talking from ignorance. Chris resigned and there was a serious threat to safety. The club had a duty of care to address and Chris had made a serious error of judgment
The Club didn’t desert or abandon Chris. If this was the case then why does Chris never say so?
He fought hard along with many others and deserves credit for that.
 

Porto Loyal

Well-Known Member
regards George square. Club1872 has never ever had any balls. The day the RST was swallowed up was the day any pretence of that died.

That I agree with.

I have nothing against CG or him being involved with C1872 IF that is open and transparent. But his apparent secret employment by the club as an adviser/administrator and (presumably unminuted) attendance at board meetings does concern me.

Most will remember the unhappiness with James Blair being both RFC Secretary and a Board member of C1872, yet here we have a situation where the club (or at least DK) maintained a salaried presence at the heart of C1872. The fact that this was accepted severely dents my confidence in the current governance.

I have no problem with C1872 buying DK’s shares. It should get as many shares as it can from anywhere. But they have a responsibility to their members to be open, transparent and honest and that’s not what has been happening
 

Brian Laudrup

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
This thread has turned into the usual petty arguments between fans

i wholeheartedly support what Robert is trying to do and ive contacted him with my c1872 number etc but the thread should be binned
 

si72

Well-Known Member
The defiant defence of Club 1872 from some is nauseating.They can do no wrong.This situation has been brought upon them by their own doing.They have completely disrespected everybody who has given them their hard earned money.Thankfully am not a contributor to this sham and never will be.
 

Robert Marshall

Well-Known Member
TPP
I get your point, but anyone who knows me knows how much I appreciated Dave's involvement with the Rangers
I had been dealing with Dave from the beginning, the connection being Richard Gough, when he left, I sent him an email to thank him for everything he had done for the Club ( and my family )
But I wouldn't be saying these things without being 100% sure they are fair and accurate
One of my things is that I am a very loyal person, but my first loyalty will always be to Rangers and The Rangers support, no matter who gets in the way
 

Baloo72

Well-Known Member
That’s fine what did I find wrong in the first place please let me know so I don’t do it again as I am up with technologies data as I am of the old brigade
Best not to post private information on the thread mate

To speak to someone privately, just select their name and then Start Conversation, its then just between you and them
 

MightyGersLand!

Well-Known Member
Not the video precisely, but overall my feeling is MM has held the highest office in the club and despite positives being evidenced by some posters, ultimately he failed, King succeeded.

We don't accept failure on the pitch, so why accept it off it? We aren't resigning Bruno Alves, or Waghorn. They had a go, and leave with best wishes and appreciation for any good they did.

I have zero skin in the game with the OP his pub, or pals or anyone with any profile linked to the club.

But I do need to use my own voice on here to say that what the OP is proposing isn't to me a coup by the back door, nor does he seem outwardly to be pressing himself or his own candidates into potentially vacant roles. There are plenty gaps in his approach, but assuming those gaps are for shady tactics isn't definitely true. But I blame nobody for reaching that conclusion based on historic actions by fans groups.

Is the OP nose out of joint as his pal was treated poorly? Yeah maybe, but sometimes that is what it takes for a cause to be kick started. An issue that you have maybe kept at arms length isn't as essential to ignore when it's at your door or in your ear directly.

It's really important people don't start seeing names pop up and see that as gospel or Roberts men. As there is no evidence that is the case, other than the poster asking an open question as to who people would see fit to steer in any interim period.

You, reader, poster, have as much right as the OP to state a name, or to abstain or criticise any suggestion.

But to offer nothing and then cry and say aw it's all other guys men getting mentioned so it must be a new clique forming isn't really Struthian values (sorry, just had to get that in somewhere).

It is also of course still all absolutely hypothetical. So anyone worried it is destabilising the club needs to settle down. Its just noise currently.

Time will tell if it is justified noise or not.

Again, I am no OP fanboy. I am vegetarian and a barely drink . His pints and free rolls are fucking useless to me. I have no link to that Reverend chap either and zero time for men of the cloth shite.

Despite that I can still see merit in what is being proposed.
King failed to protect his investment or the club during David Murray's time at the club.
He failed again to stop us falling into the hands of parasites.

So I don't really get your analogy.
Plus. Thats 2 failures and ultimately one of our greatest off field successes afterwards, for the club.

MM is trying to use his experience to help a fan group.
Not to get back in the door of Ibrox in a position of power.
 

okbear

Well-Known Member
I would encourage every member of C1872 to supply their details and allow this EGM to take place.

By providing your details to Robert, it doesn’t mean you agree with his, or anyone else’s opinions on what has allegedly been happening but it will allow a full open and transparent meeting to take place and the opportunity to determine if;

a) the current board members are following the rules and constitution or if they have over stepped their position.
b) if they are fit to continue in the position they hold and
c) if any undue influence is being put on them from person(s) outside of the elected board members.
There maybe other points that people want raised out with the above.

Once this has all been sorted, only then can C1872 continue to be what it set out to be.

I am still subscribing to C1872 until I know the outcome of this.

I have had no dealings with Robert Marshall except an occasional visit to his pub pre match.
 
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