General Meeting: Club 1872

mart22 said:
I'm not happy with the way Club 1872 is operating. The mechanisms that make it work may be suitable for other football supporters, but it's clear the Rangers support need a different business model for our fan base.
Maybe DK does have a plan for an effective Club 1872. If he does I'd like the present directors to communicate it, and the members can consider it.
If you've met all requirements to call the GM then congratulations. It's no small undertaking to front up these things, and being successful confirms the membership shares your concerns.
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I have no idea why you want to ask what DK thinks, it's more important what you think
 
Robert Marshall said:
I have no idea why you want to ask what DK thinks, it's more important what you think
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I'm struggling with a reply like this Robert. They leave me asking if you actually read what I post.
I don't think Club 1872 is fit for purpose. If DK does have a vision for a better Club 1872 I'd like to know what it is. I think club 1872 would benefit from strong leadership, someone with the authority of a Chief Exec who can take decisions, and be responsible for delivery of long term goals. If DK's vision is similar then I'd most likely support it. He may understand how Club 1872 needs to be structured for it to be a success, and how to meet expectations of members.
If any of above is going on then I look forward to announcements from the board letting us know their vision and plans for taking Club 1872 forward.
If there is no cohesive planning going on to take Club 1872 forward then your GM will hopefully be successful. But you must admit, even with a new board, Club 1872 remains threatened by the same problems it faces now. Since its inception directors haven't been able to unite, and they end up working against each other in a toxic environment.
If there is a radical plan to reorganize Club 1872 and DK is involved then that might be what is needed to kick start our organization's success. It's definitely something I'd like to know more about.
 
mart22 said:
I'm struggling with a reply like this Robert. They leave me asking if you actually read what I post.
I don't think Club 1872 is fit for purpose. If DK does have a vision for a better Club 1872 I'd like to know what it is. I think club 1872 would benefit from strong leadership, someone with the authority of a Chief Exec who can take decisions, and be responsible for delivery of long term goals. If DK's vision is similar then I'd most likely support it. He may understand how Club 1872 needs to be structured for it to be a success, and how to meet expectations of members.
If any of above is going on then I look forward to announcements from the board letting us know their vision and plans for taking Club 1872 forward.
If there is no cohesive planning going on to take Club 1872 forward then your GM will hopefully be successful. But you must admit, even with a new board, Club 1872 remains threatened by the same problems it faces now. Since its inception directors haven't been able to unite, and they end up working against each other in a toxic environment.
If there is a radical plan to reorganize Club 1872 and DK is involved then that might be what is needed to kick start our organization's success. It's definitely something I'd like to know more about.
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Dave King is the ex-chairman of Rangers FC who is looking to offload his shares. I don't see the relevance of Dave King's opinion of C1872. With respect, what does the future of C1872 have to do with Dave King?
 
Sunnyvale_Loyal said:
Dave King is the ex-chairman of Rangers FC who is looking to offload his shares. I don't see the relevance of Dave King's opinion of C1872. With respect, what does the future of C1872 have to do with Dave King?
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I've always stressed the opinion I have in this thread is just that, my opinion. I'm not trying to convince anybody else of its merit.
 
mart22 said:
I'm struggling with a reply like this Robert. They leave me asking if you actually read what I post.
I don't think Club 1872 is fit for purpose. If DK does have a vision for a better Club 1872 I'd like to know what it is. I think club 1872 would benefit from strong leadership, someone with the authority of a Chief Exec who can take decisions, and be responsible for delivery of long term goals. If DK's vision is similar then I'd most likely support it. He may understand how Club 1872 needs to be structured for it to be a success, and how to meet expectations of members.
If any of above is going on then I look forward to announcements from the board letting us know their vision and plans for taking Club 1872 forward.
If there is no cohesive planning going on to take Club 1872 forward then your GM will hopefully be successful. But you must admit, even with a new board, Club 1872 remains threatened by the same problems it faces now. Since its inception directors haven't been able to unite, and they end up working against each other in a toxic environment.
If there is a radical plan to reorganize Club 1872 and DK is involved then that might be what is needed to kick start our organization's success. It's definitely something I'd like to know more about.
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To be honest, I don’t think that Dave King has any interest in Club 1872 other than using it as a means of getting his money back.
 
grahamdavid said:
I stopped my DD to Club 1872 last year after being a member and subscribing to all three fan organisations over the years.

My subscriptions total well over £1000. Maybe £2000.

However, I am no longer regarded as a member of Club 1872 as I do not make a monthly donation.

It may be the rules (is it?) but it is not right.

In my view, being a voting member should not be dependant on a monthly subscription but on a yearly fee. Monthly subscriptions being an option.

I support the principle of a fan organisation but transparency should be a founding tenet.

It’s difficult to see how this can be resolved and get things back on track.

:(
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Agree with on this
I've never been comfortable with the fact that as soon as you stop contributing you are essentially no longer a member, regardless of your history

Definitely room for improvement in my opinion
 
Christine1872 said:
To be honest, I don’t think that Dave King has any interest in Club 1872 other than using it as a means of getting his money back.
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I don't agree with you on this. I believe DK genuinely wants Rangers supporters in control of a substantial shareholding because it is in the best interests of our club.
 
IbroxForever said:
I have no idea why people give money to any group to buy shares. It never ends well. Save your money till you can buy shares in your own name.
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Exactly. The shares could be sold today by those who have the authority to sign and act for the club. How often to members get a vote on what is happening. Part of my working life was in the stock market and as said by the poster above very few end well. Just buy in your own name and if enough do that then collectively you have a vote at Rangers agm which will count. I never give my money to others to act for me as I can do that myself.
 
Sunnyvale_Loyal said:
Why doesn't Dave King hold on to his shares, in that case?
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Wants to take some money back after his huge outlay to save the club and put us back where we belong. It’s not out of order or unthinkable, he’s asking for a fraction back that will increase fan shareholding simultaneously. C1872 isn’t fit for purpose but that can be changed. The Club share issue and DK and his offer should be taken up simultaneously if the support are serious about the club and it’s financial health long term.
 
MacaroniPie said:
You must not have much faith in the board then
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You seem to have a real issue with governance, surely you can see Club1872 haven't acted properly. Their role is to act on behalf of the members.

My other point would be why would having a General Meeting be an issue? If members are content nothing will change. If they aren't then Robert Marshall is correct to have concerns.

You are definately trying to simplify a multi faceted issue by your comments about them not doing anything wrong regarding purchasing tickets. I think you are fully aware that isn't the issue and the way your ignoring what is occuring comes across as having an agenda.
 
What an awful mess this is turning into. At times like this I’m glad I didn’t become a member of Club 1872.

I just hope that, for once, we can have a fans group that is for the genuine fans, where there is 100% transparency, no back biting or in fighting, and it’s for the good of the fans and the club.
 
davieboyblue said:
The same Dave King that put his cash up to get us out of the claws of Mike Ashley? That Dave King?

Get a grip.
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He did. And now he wants a fraction back
to safeguard his family’s future.

His family are not Rangers fans. They’ve understood this far but it’s time for him to get some money back. And no one can grudge him that.
 
krs said:
What an awful mess this is turning into. At times like this I’m glad I didn’t become a member of Club 1872.

I just hope that, for once, we can have a fans group that is for the genuine fans, where there is 100% transparency, no back biting or in fighting, and it’s for the good of the fans and the club.
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C1872 isn’t going to change by magic - needs good people to join and change from within.
 
Barbarossa said:
He did. And now he wants a fraction back
to safeguard his family’s future.

His family are not Rangers fans. They’ve understood this far but it’s time for him to get some money back. And no one can grudge him that.
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I don't begrudge him that he definitely is entitled to that money back and have no problem with that I have a problem with blazer chasers who aren't running a members group properly
 
mart22 said:
I don't agree with you on this. I believe DK genuinely wants Rangers supporters in control of a substantial shareholding because it is in the best interests of our club.
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I'll give you your due, you keep bringing DK into this to muddy the waters.
I will say to you, not for the first time, this is about how Club 1872 Board has failed in practically every area of Governance, got absolutely no transparency, and won't even answer most emails
To be clear if further needed, this is not about DK
 
mart22 said:
I don't agree with you on this. I believe DK genuinely wants Rangers supporters in control of a substantial shareholding because it is in the best interests of our club.
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I genuinely don't think DK is looking to offload his shares anytime soon, or he wouldn't have offered them to C1872. I'm a member of C1872 but I think there is not a hope in hell of the membership coming up with the finance to buy his shareholding. It's a fantasy and he knows it, so what's DK's interest in all this?
 
derek28 said:
You seem to have a real issue with governance, surely you can see Club1872 haven't acted properly. Their role is to act on behalf of the members.

My other point would be why would having a General Meeting be an issue? If members are content nothing will change. If they aren't then Robert Marshall is correct to have concerns.

You are definately trying to simplify a multi faceted issue by your comments about them not doing anything wrong regarding purchasing tickets. I think you are fully aware that isn't the issue and the way your ignoring what is occuring comes across as having an agenda.
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We should be having a GM once a year
 
jweebear said:
I genuinely don't think DK is looking to offload his shares anytime soon, or he wouldn't have offered them to C1872. I'm a member of C1872 but I think there is not a hope in hell of the membership coming up with the finance to buy his shareholding. It's a fantasy and he knows it, so what's DK's interest in all this?
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I have a theory on that but this is not about DK
 
JorgAlbertz said:
Because Dave King is driven purely by money, puts his wealth and family legacy first and everything else second, and he wants a return on his initial investment, or at least to recoup his outlay.
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What a load of rubbish, Dave King and the 3 Bears saved Rangers, all he wants is his shares to go to Club1872 at the same price as he paid, nothing more, nothing less.
 
jweebear said:
I genuinely don't think DK is looking to offload his shares anytime soon, or he wouldn't have offered them to C1872. I'm a member of C1872 but I think there is not a hope in hell of the membership coming up with the finance to buy his shareholding. It's a fantasy and he knows it, so what's DK's interest in all this?
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I think he genuinely believes the supporters should own a meaningful shareholding in Rangers. It will protect the club in the future. Once Club 1872 owns his shares they can't be sold.
Collective supporter share ownership has been part of DK's vision for Rangers. This will be the greatest legacy anyone has left to the support.
But the problem is the way Club 1872 is operating. If, as seems most likely, DK is pulling strings then a handful of people are shaping Club 1872 at the expense of member input. OK, could be a bad thing, but it may also be the only way to make Club 1872 fit for purpose. Things are being forced to a head, the new board will have to communicate soon, turbulent times, but what's new!
 
davieboyblue said:
The same Dave King that put his cash up to get us out of the claws of Mike Ashley? That Dave King?

Get a grip.
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Where did I say he didn't, or that I wasn't eternally grateful (like the vast majority of us are) for everything he's done for Rangers over the decades?

You'll be aware that he was due a loan repayment plus interest 8% earlier this year, right? So that's a small return on his investment.

I'm not sure what is the problem with the factual comments I made based on many publicly available sources like interviews and podcasts and also conversations I've had with a former colleague who is a close relative of his that nobody else would be privy to?

I think Robert is right though, the focus of the thread needs to get back to C1872 and not DK, apologies for taking it off the track.
 
JorgAlbertz said:
I think Robert is right though, the focus of the thread needs to get back to C1872 and not DK, apologies for taking it off the track.
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Way I see it is if DK is influencing the Club 1872 board it's not in an advisory capacity. If he's involved he's telling them what to do. It might be convenient to separate them into different issues, but in reality they are cause and effect.
 
mart22 said:
Way I see it is if DK is influencing the Club 1872 board it's not in an advisory capacity. If he's involved he's telling them what to do. It might be convenient to separate them into different issues, but in reality they are cause and effect.
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Well let’s get this agm going and we’ll maybe find out.
 
mart22 said:
I accept and respect your point of view.
However, I can't help but feel I want to know from the existing board. DK may feel Club 1872 can't be democratic and implement changes it needs to become a major shareholder. Let's face it there always seems to be civil war among Club 1872 directors. Decisions have to be taken by someone.
DK may have very good ideas for Club 1872, and if he has I'd like to hear them. I know things are unsatisfactory in Club 1872 right now, but personally, because it is DK, then I'd like to know more before kicking out his people.
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So why don't the current board members of Club1872 say or do something? Preferably both!
 
mart22 said:
Now the board elections are over I hope addressing dissatisfaction among the members is a priority to them. If it's not it'll only cause more problems.
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I think if they really cared addressing the concerns of the membership or supporter base, they would have done so already.
 
JorgAlbertz said:
Where did I say he didn't, or that I wasn't eternally grateful (like the vast majority of us are) for everything he's done for Rangers over the decades?

You'll be aware that he was due a loan repayment plus interest 8% earlier this year, right? So that's a small return on his investment.

I'm not sure what is the problem with the factual comments I made based on many publicly available sources like interviews and podcasts and also conversations I've had with a former colleague who is a close relative of his that nobody else would be privy to?

I think Robert is right though, the focus of the thread needs to get back to C1872 and not DK, apologies for taking it off the track.
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Even the recent elections of two directors this last week, is now up in the air with the pending AGM and call for a vote of no confidence, in the current board of C1872. The only way forward then is a board with no outside interference, other than by voting members working within the agreed articles and rules of the club. Even then with hopefully a new aggressive members drive, I don't see any realistic chance of C1872 buying DK's in the foreseeable future.
 
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mart22 said:
I don't agree with you on this. I believe DK genuinely wants Rangers supporters in control of a substantial shareholding because it is in the best interests of our club.
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He wants both.

He wants his money back, of that there is no doubt. He’s a greedy businessman, they’re all the same.

But I am also of no doubt that he wants Rangers fans to buy his stake.
 
Sunnyvale_Loyal said:
Why doesn't Dave King hold on to his shares, in that case?
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Purely hypothetical, but perhaps his family has indicated they have no interest in maintaining his shareholding, and looking to the future, selling to club1872 is one way DK can ensure his holdings remain in the hands of Rangers fans rather be sold on the open market, where someone like A$hley can access them.
 
mart22 said:
Now the board elections are over I hope addressing dissatisfaction among the members is a priority to them. If it's not it'll only cause more problems.
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I hope so too. But as a, now ex, member I’ve been hoping for that for some time. A severe lack of governance, unacceptable in an organisation acting as trustees for nearly £5m worth of shares paid for by fans, is a real concern. Let me just repeat that, £5m!
 
mart22 said:
Now the board elections are over I hope addressing dissatisfaction among the members is a priority to them. If it's not it'll only cause more problems.
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Why would they change their habits since they were voted in, why don't you do it as you seem to be their fanboy
Quite simple by law they should have had an AGM every year, they have not one for years
I wait with bated breath for them to try and justify this, maybe you can do it for them>
Are you a member, will you sign up and demand a GM?
 
HillsBill said:
I hope so too. But as a, now ex, member I’ve been hoping for that for some time. A severe lack of governance, unacceptable in an organisation acting as trustees for nearly £5m worth of shares paid for by fans, is a real concern. Let me just repeat that, £5m!
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It is actually quite frightening the way they have promoted themselves to be in control of this amount of assets
 

Robert Marshall said:
I now have in the region of 200 Members in less than 12 days who are wanting a GM.
So if any of the Board are reading this, announce a GM and pretend you were always going to do it
Don't risk the embarrassment of being forced to call it
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You can bet your boots they have all read it.
 
mart22 said:
I think he genuinely believes the supporters should own a meaningful shareholding in Rangers. It will protect the club in the future. Once Club 1872 owns his shares they can't be sold.
Collective supporter share ownership has been part of DK's vision for Rangers. This will be the greatest legacy anyone has left to the support.
But the problem is the way Club 1872 is operating. If, as seems most likely, DK is pulling strings then a handful of people are shaping Club 1872 at the expense of member input. OK, could be a bad thing, but it may also be the only way to make Club 1872 fit for purpose. Things are being forced to a head, the new board will have to communicate soon, turbulent times, but what's new!
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The logical way to fix 1872 is to put a Temporary new board in place and rewrite the constitution to reflect its original intentions to further the cause of the Rangers Community
While the old board resign.
The temporary board should consist of Professionals who have never been a board member of any previous fans groups and let them reshape 1872




I might have this wrong but was DK not in the past as saying he didn't believe in fans group having an influence? Still has no bearing on the present 1872
 
Robert Marshall said:
The logical way to fix 1872 is to put a Temporary new board in place and rewrite the constitution to reflect its original intentions to further the cause of the Rangers Community
While the old board resign.
The temporary board should consist of Professionals who have never been a board member of any previous fans groups and let them reshape 1872




I might have this wrong but was DK not in the past as saying he didn't believe in fans group having an influence? Still has no bearing on the present 1872
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I don't know what DK has said in the past about supporter involvement.
However, his commitment to Club 1872's legacy campaign, and his flexibility on payment terms do strongly suggest he believes fans owning a significant piece of the club is vital.
 
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