General Meeting: Club 1872

Methlickblue

Well-Known Member
Is there anyone else people on here wouldn't object to
If members are happy to put forward names for the caretaker Board
I will ask the question
I am not sure Robert, my point is more generic, bring someone to the table who’s credentials are not in question and who is free and independent to speak and report on facts ! I don’t know who would be up for it , but the list of “Rangers” that would command respect is long ! I questioned the way Club1872 was being formatted at the very beginning I was soundly chased on many a thread, my opinion is not important, but the principal surely is .
 

Kampbell

Well-Known Member
Mate I love bomber.. but I'm not sure his skillset is best placed to be a director of an organisation with huge amounts of members money floating around and I mean no disrespect to him with that because I certainly wouldn't be fit to do it either.

Surely people with some professional expertise and business knowledge are what you're looking for rather than a former footballer.
 

Methlickblue

Well-Known Member
Mate I love bomber.. but I'm not sure his skillset is best placed to be a director of an organisation with huge amounts of members money floating around and I mean no disrespect to him with that because I certainly wouldn't be fit to do it either.

Surely people with some professional expertise and business knowledge are what you're looking for rather than a former footballer.
I think the Bomber thing has been grabbed as literal , I think the principal of a trustworthy person with an open door and brain would not be too difficult to find. And not to be rude to Bomber, he stood on the stairs and asked questions , so maybe he has more up top than we give him credit for !
 

LJ50

Well-Known Member
You weren't the first to disagree with me and you won't be the last
The way it should be
This is the thing that drives me nuts on here. I disagree with the wife sometimes, I disagree with my best mates. I disagree with people that work for me and I disagree with the people I work with. Very rarely are my aims at odds with those people’s and never ever do I wish them ill.

For some reason, when it comes to Rangers, many people seem too eager to defend the indefensible because they have aligned themselves to one actor or another. Or they find fault in every action and every word from someone merely because they have taken a side in a perceived divide.

I might see your proposal and disagree with some of the detail of it. And I‘d say so. But I’ll respect your motives and won’t be shy in agreeing with those aspects I do agree with. Likewise, I don’t mind anyone telling me they disagree with me. But do it respectfully and try to convince me that you’re right and I’m wrong. That’s how the world should work.
 

mart22

Well-Known Member
I don't think we are, but it appears it's the only thing you get
What am I not getting then?
Thanks for getting round to confirming you will not be influenced by the DK directors, or Dave King himself, should they ask you to step back from trying to initiate a general meeting. Respect to you because that would not be easy to refuse. Given the gratitude we all feel towards Dave King.
What is bothering me most is the avoidance of straight talking. I'm 85% sure Dave King is running Club 1872, and that his interventions are the cause of the problems you want a general meeting over. However, it's like nobody wants to face up to the possibility, or what that even means to members of Club 1872.
Right now we've got directors to elect. That's a big thing because members have to understand what they are voting for. DK doesn't like Malcolm Murray, and Malcolm Murray has mentioned his commitment to governance, and his desire to ensure it is implemented correctly in Club 1872.
Effectively members have a choice to vote for directors who will comply with the current setup, or Malcolm Murray.
What are your views on this situation? Do you think current directors of Club 1872 are being instructed by Dave King? Do you think Malcolm Murray can get anywhere if he is elected?
And what can this general meeting actually achieve? Can it really be helpful while an election is underway?
Once again, I ask these questions because I don't know the answers, and it'd be helpful to know the opinions of other posters. I still haven't decided if I'll vote either. Maybe DK running Club 1872 isn't actually a bad thing.
 

Robert Marshall

Well-Known Member
I am not sure Robert, my point is more generic, bring someone to the table who’s credentials are not in question and who is free and independent to speak and report on facts ! I don’t know who would be up for it , but the list of “Rangers” that would command respect is long ! I questioned the way Club1872 was being formatted at the very beginning I was soundly chased on many a thread, my opinion is not important, but the principal surely is .
I think it is fair to say I know a lot of these people, first one that comes to mind, if it was for a short time, is Andy Smillie ( again if he would do it )
 

Robert Marshall

Well-Known Member
Mate I love bomber.. but I'm not sure his skillset is best placed to be a director of an organisation with huge amounts of members money floating around and I mean no disrespect to him with that because I certainly wouldn't be fit to do it either.

Surely people with some professional expertise and business knowledge are what you're looking for rather than a former footballer.
It was for the short term, a name people would respect
I have been approached by various people who on the face of it are ideal
 

mart22

Well-Known Member
That’s just f***ing childish. I took the time to respond politely and thoughtfully to your posts. And you reply with a childish barb that is as incorrect as it is irrelevant. For someone complaining about “smart arse” replies, you’ve just shown yourself up for a hypocrite.

For the record, I’ve spoken with Robert precisely twice. Once to thank him for a roll and sausage I took from the tray he was standing beside at the Louden and once to disagree with him at an RST AGM.
Well don't appear to be ganging up on me then.
You needn't have even bothered with this reply. I'm only interested in where Club 1872 is going for now. I won't be dragged into an ongoing argument over whether you are Robert's pal.
 

cornholio

Well-Known Member
Very few people realize the importance of Club 1872,... ...I'm not sure what to do. On one hand I think if Dave King wants to "guide" Club 1872 then it's probably the least he deserves....
You're spot on with the significance of C1872, but the current custodians do not have the gravitas or experience to direct a vehicle of this nature, run some operational duties, sure, but administrators at best

On your second point, Not a chance. If DK wants to involve himself in C1872, he buys in/get's voted in like everyone else.

DK is getting a return, that I don't have an issue with, what I would say though is that buying shares from the club is the highest priority
 

Robert Marshall

Well-Known Member
What am I not getting then?
Thanks for getting round to confirming you will not be influenced by the DK directors, or Dave King himself, should they ask you to step back from trying to initiate a general meeting. Respect to you because that would not be easy to refuse. Given the gratitude we all feel towards Dave King.
What is bothering me most is the avoidance of straight talking. I'm 85% sure Dave King is running Club 1872, and that his interventions are the cause of the problems you want a general meeting over. However, it's like nobody wants to face up to the possibility, or what that even means to members of Club 1872.
Right now we've got directors to elect. That's a big thing because members have to understand what they are voting for. DK doesn't like Malcolm Murray, and Malcolm Murray has mentioned his commitment to governance, and his desire to ensure it is implemented correctly in Club 1872.
Effectively members have a choice to vote for directors who will comply with the current setup, or Malcolm Murray.
What are your views on this situation? Do you think current directors of Club 1872 are being instructed by Dave King? Do you think Malcolm Murray can get anywhere if he is elected?
And what can this general meeting actually achieve? Can it really be helpful while an election is underway?
Once again, I ask these questions because I don't know the answers, and it'd be helpful to know the opinions of other posters. I still haven't decided if I'll vote either. Maybe DK running Club 1872 isn't actually a bad thing.
I think the current Directors are be influenced by Dave King via Chris Graham
I have known Malcolm for years and he is a Rangers fan, no I don't think. even if elected he would have any influence
The GM would take place after the election and what I hope it will achieve is more openness and better quality of Directors who would embrace the Governance that is needed
Anyone person running the show as you put it is bad, Dave said it countless times himself while the takeover was in the process
 

LJ50

Well-Known Member
Well don't appear to be ganging up on me then.
You needn't have even bothered with this reply. I'm only interested in where Club 1872 is going for now. I won't be dragged into an ongoing argument over whether you are Robert's pal.
You made a childish, irrelevant and inaccurate assertion rather than discuss substance. No one dragged you into that argument, you started it and are now crying ’victim’.

You’re not worth engaging further with.
 

mart22

Well-Known Member
You're spot on with the significance of C1872, but the current custodians do not have the gravitas or experience to direct a vehicle of this nature, run some operational duties, sure, but administrators at best

On your second point, Not a chance. If DK wants to involve himself in C1872, he buys in/get's voted in like everyone else.

DK is getting a return, that I don't have an issue with, what I would say though is that buying shares from the club is the highest priority
I kind of agree on your point about gravitas and experience. And that's why I think the changes the directors are trying to introduce are being given to them by Dave King. He does work in strange ways, and it's hard not believe he knows what is best. But maybe Club 1872 shouldn't be under one person's influence, even if it is Dave King's influence.
 

Blaew

Well-Known Member
At last, someone is putting a name forward, John is a life member and would IMO be a great shout, surely no one could have a problem with him
( not even sure if he would do it )
Is he not an employee of the club through his scouting role? In my view that gives a perception of a conflict of interest. I don't think anyone who is an employee or has a direct financial relationship with the club should be on the board of Club1872.
 

Robert Marshall

Well-Known Member
Is he not an employee of the club through his scouting role? In my view that is a conflict of interest. I don't think anyone who is an employee or has a direct financial relationship with the club should be on the board of Club1872.
That;s why I said temporary as he would not be able to accept a Directorship
 

EndOfDays

Well-Known Member
The Malcolm Murray video was shocking (regardless of how it was taken).

For someone holding the prestigious position as chairman of the club to get into that state when at a club function was treating the chairmanship with contempt imo.
 

Blaew

Well-Known Member
That;s why I said temporary as he would not be able to accept a Directorship
I think with what you are trying to do in ensuring Club1872 gets back on a solid foundation governance wise and reset the relationship with the club, anyone directly connected to the club is a no go, even if on a temporary basis.

Any person taking on a role that is trying to do that should be wholly independent, otherwise it risks flipping the perception that it is now the club trying to control Club1872 rather than an ex-Director of the club. The only perception that should exist is that it is Club1872 members alone controlling the destiny of that organisation.
 

Robert Marshall

Well-Known Member
I think with what you are trying to do in ensuring Club1872 gets back on a solid foundation governance wise and reset the relationship with the club, anyone directly connected to the club is a no go, even if on a temporary basis.

Any person taking on a role that is trying to do that should be wholly independent, otherwise it risks flipping the perception that it is now the club trying to control Club1872 rather than an ex-Director of the club.
Ok do you have anyone in mind that would fulfill the criteria
ps It wasn't me that proposed John
 

mart22

Well-Known Member
I think the current Directors are be influenced by Dave King via Chris Graham
I have known Malcolm for years and he is a Rangers fan, no I don't think. even if elected he would have any influence
The GM would take place after the election and what I hope it will achieve is more openness and better quality of Directors who would embrace the Governance that is needed
Anyone person running the show as you put it is bad, Dave said it countless times himself while the takeover was in the process
Do you reckon the election is pretty pointless, because nobody elected can change Club 1872's current direction?
That's worrying if it's the case. Malcolm must believe he can change its direction. If he did get elected and ended up resigning shortly after then it would make this election a bit of a farce.
I hope the GM can deliver openness and ways to attract quality directors. I actually think more guys of Malcolm's experience and ability would be fantastic. But how do you attract guys of that calibre to volunteer. And if Club 1872 becomes a closed shop then they will never be persuaded.
What I really want to see are plans to expand Club 1872, and grow it into a meaningful supporters organization that Rangers supporters really want to be members of.
 

Robert Marshall

Well-Known Member
Do you reckon the election is pretty pointless, because nobody elected can change Club 1872's current direction?
That's worrying if it's the case. Malcolm must believe he can change its direction. If he did get elected and ended up resigning shortly after then it would make this election a bit of a farce.
I hope the GM can deliver openness and ways to attract quality directors. I actually think more guys of Malcolm's experience and ability would be fantastic. But how do you attract guys of that calibre to volunteer. And if Club 1872 becomes a closed shop then they will never be persuaded.
What I really want to see are plans to expand Club 1872, and grow it into a meaningful supporters organization that Rangers supporters really want to be members of.
When I finalise my ideas I am hopeful it could lead to 20000 fans during the first twelve months from a new board being appointed
And I do believe this election is a smother
 

archimedes

Well-Known Member
I am not sure Robert, my point is more generic, bring someone to the table who’s credentials are not in question and who is free and independent to speak and report on facts ! I don’t know who would be up for it , but the list of “Rangers” that would command respect is long ! I questioned the way Club1872 was being formatted at the very beginning I was soundly chased on many a thread, my opinion is not important, but the principal surely is .


Someone like Reverend Stuart McQuarrie.

Problem is, he's already tried.
 

TPP

Well-Known Member
Not directly by King, but indirectly at the behest of KIng
Are you saying you didn't know or suspect that?
No I didn’t directly know. I knew Chris was close to King, but don’t have any knowledge of the extent.

we can all be wrong, however I really can’t ever see Chris, or King, ever doing anything that’s not for the betterment of Rangers. King beyond anyone has proved beyond any doubt. Nobody has put the sums into Rangers King has.

perhaps in this case that’s not the point And I can see the concern.

however I’m relatively relaxed about that personally Unless someone can show me why I shouldn’t be
 

mart22

Well-Known Member
When I finalise my ideas I am hopeful it could lead to 20000 fans during the first twelve months from a new board being appointed
And I do believe this election is a smother
That would be genuinely amazing. I wish you the best getting your ideas down.
I don't think I'll vote in this election if it's a waste of time, and I'll look to the GM as a more realistic possibility for members to get it right.
 

LetsGo

Well-Known Member
What I really want to see are plans to expand Club 1872, and grow it into a meaningful supporters organization that Rangers supporters really want to be members of.
Ultimately if C1872 gets to 25%+1 or any level where it has a claim for a representative to be on the company board, ordinary supporters will still view those in the running for that as blazer chasers, there will still be infighting and disagreement over what C1872 policy should be on various issues.

As I've highlighted before, if it gets to 25%+1 to have a veto over any AGM/EGM resolutions that is a precarious position if the company is requesting share issue for external funding because C1872 has to have reserves to be able to avoid share dilution.

IMO it's a pointless exercise which will never result in anything worthwhile, will always be a vehicle for factions involved in a power struggle who will never actually get anywhere, and it will never be able to achieve its objective of "the club falling into the wrong hands".
 

Blaew

Well-Known Member
Ok do you have anyone in mind that would fulfill the criteria
ps It wasn't me that proposed John
Yeah I realised it wasn't you I just wanted to put my opinion forward that I think it's best that someone completely independent is installed to lead the initial rebuild. Otherwise I think it won't get off the ground or it will cause problems down the line.

I'm someone who is not particularly well connected so I'm apprehensive at throwing a name out because I don't know all the ins and outs of who has formal relationships with the club. Unfortunately for Club1872 the types of people that would be great if we were having this conversation 10 years ago are now on the board of the club.
 

Robert Marshall

Well-Known Member
Ultimately if C1872 gets to 25%+1 or any level where it has a claim for a representative to be on the company board, ordinary supporters will still view those in the running for that as blazer chasers, there will still be infighting and disagreement over what C1872 policy should be on various issues.

As I've highlighted before, if it gets to 25%+1 to have a veto over any AGM/EGM resolutions that is a precarious position if the company is requesting share issue for external funding because C1872 has to have reserves to be able to avoid share dilution.

IMO it's a pointless exercise which will never result in anything worthwhile, will always be a vehicle for factions involved in a power struggle who will never actually get anywhere, and it will never be able to achieve its objective of "the club falling into the wrong hands".
I am of the belief that 1872 should have no one on the Rangers Board
 

Prod Wallace

Well-Known Member
The Malcolm Murray video was shocking (regardless of how it was taken).

For someone holding the prestigious position as chairman of the club to get into that state when at a club function was treating the chairmanship with contempt imo.

Not the video precisely, but overall my feeling is MM has held the highest office in the club and despite positives being evidenced by some posters, ultimately he failed, King succeeded.

We don't accept failure on the pitch, so why accept it off it? We aren't resigning Bruno Alves, or Waghorn. They had a go, and leave with best wishes and appreciation for any good they did.

I have zero skin in the game with the OP his pub, or pals or anyone with any profile linked to the club.

But I do need to use my own voice on here to say that what the OP is proposing isn't to me a coup by the back door, nor does he seem outwardly to be pressing himself or his own candidates into potentially vacant roles. There are plenty gaps in his approach, but assuming those gaps are for shady tactics isn't definitely true. But I blame nobody for reaching that conclusion based on historic actions by fans groups.

Is the OP nose out of joint as his pal was treated poorly? Yeah maybe, but sometimes that is what it takes for a cause to be kick started. An issue that you have maybe kept at arms length isn't as essential to ignore when it's at your door or in your ear directly.

It's really important people don't start seeing names pop up and see that as gospel or Roberts men. As there is no evidence that is the case, other than the poster asking an open question as to who people would see fit to steer in any interim period.

You, reader, poster, have as much right as the OP to state a name, or to abstain or criticise any suggestion.

But to offer nothing and then cry and say aw it's all other guys men getting mentioned so it must be a new clique forming isn't really Struthian values (sorry, just had to get that in somewhere).

It is also of course still all absolutely hypothetical. So anyone worried it is destabilising the club needs to settle down. Its just noise currently.

Time will tell if it is justified noise or not.

Again, I am no OP fanboy. I am vegetarian and a barely drink . His pints and free rolls are fucking useless to me. I have no link to that Reverend chap either and zero time for men of the cloth shite.

Despite that I can still see merit in what is being proposed.
 

RfcIbrox

Well-Known Member
You're spot on with the significance of C1872, but the current custodians do not have the gravitas or experience to direct a vehicle of this nature, run some operational duties, sure, but administrators at best

On your second point, Not a chance. If DK wants to involve himself in C1872, he buys in/get's voted in like everyone else.

DK is getting a return, that I don't have an issue with, what I would say though is that buying shares from the club is the highest priority
I think it is largely an administrative function mate but at a very high calibre level. The Director's job in 1872 is to get money, understand what folk want the money spent on, stay at arms length from interference from the football club Board and not to interfere with areas of expertise that football board have. It’s not like running a commercial enterprise. It’s stakeholder management and negotiation. I reckon a board with very capable top grade public servant chairing it, governance understanding, PR/comms, finance/legal and several Rangers ‘faces’ from the fan base and supporters clubs would be ideal.
 

Gerrard the Great

Active Member
At last, someone is putting a name forward, John is a life member and would IMO be a great shout, surely no one could have a problem with him
( not even sure if he would do it )
I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t want to do it but if asked as a duty to the club and it’s fans he might just be the honest broker we need.
C1872 is either a force for the good of the club or it’s just shares and a soapbox for blazers. We need someone on the board that talks straight and everybody can trust
 

Robert Marshall

Well-Known Member
Not the video precisely, but overall my feeling is MM has held the highest office in the club and despite positives being evidenced by some posters, ultimately he failed, King succeeded.

We don't accept failure on the pitch, so why accept it off it? We aren't resigning Bruno Alves, or Waghorn. They had a go, and leave with best wishes and appreciation for any good they did.

I have zero skin in the game with the OP his pub, or pals or anyone with any profile linked to the club.

But I do need to use my own voice on here to say that what the OP is proposing isn't to me a coup by the back door, nor does he seem outwardly to be pressing himself or his own candidates into potentially vacant roles. There are plenty gaps in his approach, but assuming those gaps are for shady tactics isn't definitely true. But I blame nobody for reaching that conclusion based on historic actions by fans groups.

Is the OP nose out of joint as his pal was treated poorly? Yeah maybe, but sometimes that is what it takes for a cause to be kick started. An issue that you have maybe kept at arms length isn't as essential to ignore when it's at your door or in your ear directly.

It's really important people don't start seeing names pop up and see that as gospel or Roberts men. As there is no evidence that is the case, other than the poster asking an open question as to who people would see fit to steer in any interim period.

You, reader, poster, have as much right as the OP to state a name, or to abstain or criticise any suggestion.

But to offer nothing and then cry and say aw it's all other guys men getting mentioned so it must be a new clique forming isn't really Struthian values (sorry, just had to get that in somewhere).

It is also of course still all absolutely hypothetical. So anyone worried it is destabilising the club needs to settle down. Its just noise currently.

Time will tell if it is justified noise or not.

Again, I am no OP fanboy. I am vegetarian and a barely drink . His pints and free rolls are fucking useless to me. I have no link to that Reverend chap either and zero time for men of the cloth shite.

Despite that I can still see merit in what is being proposed.
My nose isn't out of joint, but to see a man like Stuart making these comments made me realise something had to be done and I'm not the type of person to moan about it and do nothing
My pub is not in the game
 

Crouchy

Well-Known Member
Can Johnston do it whilst also being a non-exec of RIFC?

He’s the man I would want.

For me, I suspect the vehicle will die off. I see an appetite from the board to have direct capital invested. I suspect many will use future funds in this manner and step back from C1872.
 

Robert Marshall

Well-Known Member
Can Johnston do it whilst also being a non-exec of RIFC?

He’s the man I would want.

For me, I suspect the vehicle will die off. I see an appetite from the board to have direct capital invested. I suspect many will use future funds in this manner and step back from C1872.
I agree, if I was the Club that's the way I would go.
If the Board of 1872 dosn't resign, I think its membership will collapse
You can't fight City Hall ( and win )
 

Crouchy

Well-Known Member
I agree, if I was the Club that's the way I would go.
If the Board of 1872 dosn't resign, I think its membership will collapse
You can't fight City Hall ( and win )

Problem being, it is a stranded shareholding just now, also.

No way of breaking it up.

It won’t grow, but it will be a prominent shareholder forever more, imo.
 

Gerrard the Great

Active Member
We are all appreciative to Mr King for saving our club and if he wants to maintain influence while getting his money back that needn’t be a completely bad thing the lack of transparency in C1872 though is sinister and while it’s board remains opaque bears should avoid
 

Robert Marshall

Well-Known Member
Problem being, it is a stranded shareholding just now, also.

No way of breaking it up.

It won’t grow, but it will be a prominent shareholder forever more, imo.
No, it won't as the Club will issue more and more shares which !872 will not be able to keep up its % as most will have stopped donating
 

Crouchy

Well-Known Member
No, it won't as the Club will issue more and more shares which !872 will not be able to keep up its % as most will have stopped donating

Agreed - meant over the foreseeable.

Take a while to dilute them and some will stick around and continue to invest given the £500 minimums for the alternative.
 

I.M.A.Bear

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
Where can one read the Club 1872 Articles?

I'm a member and until recently have paid no attention to what's going on, just assumed it was a vehicle for good doing good.
 

Captain_Buns

Well-Known Member
Does Chris Graham have an axe to grind against the current board after they cut off the gravy train that Dave King allowed him?
 

interbear

Well-Known Member
We are all appreciative to Mr King for saving our club and if he wants to maintain influence while getting his money back that needn’t be a completely bad thing the lack of transparency in C1872 though is sinister and while it’s board remains opaque bears should avoid

Agree re massive appreciation for Dave King and the work he did to get our club back. I also understand that he wants to recoup his investment and no longer be actively involved in running the football club itself. However, if (and it’s only if as we don’t know) he wants to maintain influence via Club1872 he should be standing for election to the board himself or making it clear who his proxy is to provide that influence. Transparency, as you say, is all important here as Rangers fans who are members are pumping money into Club1872 on a monthly basis and deserve to know what the f*** is going on.
 

Stanley

Well-Known Member
I was a menber of RST and now a life member of Club1872. Like most of us on FF who are members we simply want Club1872 to be well run and in accordance with the direction its members support.

The Club 1872 website provides a vision, its goals, and how our money is used. 47.5 per cent is aimed at increasing its shares in Rangers to the extent that we as fans will never be placed in a position ever again to allow spivs to try to destroy our Rangers. A further 47.5 per cent is for projects, as determined and voted upon by the membership. The remaining 5 per cent is for administration.

All well and good. However, behind the scenes the situation appears clouded and some actions by the current admin appear to have gone against the spirit of the vision and goals. In that respect, greater transparency is required. This needs to be sorted out before we go forward. I support the need for an egm.
The egm needs to also have a clear set of objectives, which can then be reinforced with a number of more detailed policies to enable greater control by its members on a day to day basis. This would bring greater transparency to the proceedings. But that in itself will not be enough. There needs to be more open dialogue between the elected representatives and its membership. For this to occur, each elected person should be accountable through a monthly newsletter on Club 1872 setting out how the goals are being ’implemented’ and what specifically has been achieved. To some, this may appear ’tiresome’, but the more openness to the organisation the better. What is clear is that we need to strengthen fan ownership and realise our goals.
 
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