General Meeting: Club 1872

Robert Marshall said:
Really good, don't want o give out specifics just now but the numbers are god enough for them to consider their positions
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Rab do you expect to be able to bring about change. I hope you are successful so more fans can get behind it, myself included. Once you have enough votes what happens next.
 
teddy_bears said:
Rab do you expect to be able to bring about change. I hope you are successful so more fans can get behind it, myself included. Once you have enough votes what happens next.
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I will get change, with the help of the Members, once we have the necessary votes we will call a GM ( They have not had one in over three years )
If a vote of No confidence is passed, they will have to resign
 
See tbh I really don’t get the silence from the organisation. Only having 1700 legacy members firstly is worrying. Their target was 20000. If their not getting memberships then they should be looking at change.
 
When Rev. MaQuarrie‘s letter was published a few weeks ago the number of legacy donors as per their own website was 1,571. This morning that figure stands at 1,512. It’s hard to imagine the number of ordinary subscribers hasn’t gone in the same direction and still total silence from the incumbent directors. Do they not think those who continue to pay each month deserve some kind of response from them? What do they think they are achieving by this stance? They surely can’t believe their continued presence benefits Club 1872 or Rangers.

club1872.co.uk

Home - Club 1872Club 1872

Club 1872 has one clear and common purpose for all those who hold Rangers dear – to maintain and protect Rangers Football Club.
club1872.co.uk club1872.co.uk
 
Robert Marshall said:
I will get change, with the help of the Members, once we have the necessary votes we will call a GM ( They have not had one in over three years )
If a vote of No confidence is passed, they will have to resign
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Thats mental it has been allowed to go so long and nothing has been done. Its clear they are no longer interested In protecting Rangers and only looking out for themselves. Well done for taking this on, I wish you every success.
 
Robert Marshall said:
I will get change, with the help of the Members, once we have the necessary votes we will call a GM ( They have not had one in over three years )
If a vote of No confidence is passed, they will have to resign
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C1872 have not had an AGM for three years?
 
Was never a member Rab, was previously a fan group member prior to 1872 but timing and circumstance meant I couldn't join.
Things have changed for me now and I would be very open to becoming a member of 1872 but never in the current format and with the way it is currently being run.

Probably no use to you but if you are counting potential members then add me to the total, happy to give my details etc via PM if you need more than just a random post on a random thread.
 
Boydscores said:
I would most certainly re join if a more fit for purpose Board was brought in and then a vote for more credible board members took place.
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Same here as a former member.

And...I realise this is a hugely trivial point in the scale of things, but I wish a new name could also be found for our fan group - I have never liked "Club" anything and would prefer to have "Rangers" prominent in the name (if legally possible).
 
blue genes said:
Same here as a former member.

And...I realise this is a hugely trivial point in the scale of things, but I wish a new name could also be found for our fan group - I have never liked "Club" anything and would prefer to have "Rangers" prominent in the name (if legally possible).
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Funny, I didn’t like it when I was on the Working Group and said so but Chris said that his mate who was big in marketing and branding thought it was great and that was the end of the discussion.
 
Christine1872 said:
Actually it’s 5 years
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That tells you a great deal.
It should be part of the articles of association that the organisation holds a general meeting of members on an annual basis or, at most, every two years.
There needs to be a Root and Branch review of policies and procedures as Club 1872
There is clearly a serious lack of corporate governance and the charity-type regulatory body that governs it’s practices clearly has no effective oversight.
 
Coisty09 said:
That tells you a great deal.
It should be part of the articles of association that the organisation holds a general meeting of members on an annual basis or, at most, every two years.
There needs to be a Root and Branch review of policies and procedures as Club 1872
There is clearly a serious lack of corporate governance and the charity-type regulatory body that governs it’s practices clearly has no effective oversight.
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I think @mdingwall posted earlier in the thread that it's in the articles to hold one annually.
 
mart22 said:
He stepped down as chairman because it was the consequences of his battle with the takeover panel.
I think DK wholeheartedly believes in fans owning a stake in Rangers, a meaningful stake too, because it is genuinely the best way to protect Rangers from parasites. He is a fan himself, and I don't think anyone could argue that he doesn't love the club.
He's not profiting from his deal with Club 1872 either. They are buying his shares for what he paid for them. That's a big thing because the value of his shares is only going to go up as Rangers strengthen their hold at the top of Scottish football.
However, in his mind, he knows how Club 1872 has to operate while controlling a significant shareholding. I don't believe he thinks its anywhere near where it has to be. So he is shaping it into a suitable vehicle for controlling the fans shareholding.
The only thing is he won't be wasting any time with squabbles and democracy. He is going to do things his way. And if that means having a puppet board, shadow directors and being "flexible" with governance then so be it.
I'm torn over this. Club 1872 probably aren't set up to responsibly control a large shareholding in Rangers. A project to make them fit for purpose needs somebody who knows what they are doing. And who better than him?
On the other hand it's understandable a lot of members are concerned. Democracy is being ditched, and governance bent all over the place. Should Club 1872 really be reconstructed as one man sees fit? Because it's Dave king maybe, but don't expect him to explain anything, or communicate while he goes about business. And that, ironically, leaves us exactly where we are with Club 1872 as we were with Rangers under David Murray.
I've grown to trust Dave King, and I'm inclined to go along with anything he wants. However, there is that nagging feeling about doing it the right way, and Club 1872 is a members organization ffs!
Always like to end posts like this by saying all of this is my opinion. I am not in the know, and I could be wrong.
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With all due respect, there is no debate. People signed up to an organisation with a charter based on the democratic will of the membership, and give money on that basis. I don’t care if it’s Dave King, Walter Smith or King Billy himself, it is a breach of faith at the very least for any one person to usurp that. That isn’t fan ownership in any meaningful way, it’s just another way to relieve fans of their money to do what you personally want. There’s already plenty of ways for fans to give Rangers their money without any say in the running of the club, this should be one way that at least gives fans a seat at the table.
 
As someone who done plenty for C1872 in the past and also had a meeting with members about his poor it was running many years ago this all comes at no surprise to me. Many skeletons in the closet here.

Wish Marshall all the best with this. Hope it is all for the right reasons.

C1872 was the right fan vehicle pity it was only a two seater.
 
UlsterScotGer said:
With all due respect, there is no debate. People signed up to an organisation with a charter based on the democratic will of the membership, and give money on that basis. I don’t care if it’s Dave King, Walter Smith or King Billy himself, it is a breach of faith at the very least for any one person to usurp that. That isn’t fan ownership in any meaningful way, it’s just another way to relieve fans of their money to do what you personally want. There’s already plenty of ways for fans to give Rangers their money without any say in the running of the club, this should be one way that at least gives fans a seat at the table.
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I accept and respect your point of view.
However, I can't help but feel I want to know from the existing board. DK may feel Club 1872 can't be democratic and implement changes it needs to become a major shareholder. Let's face it there always seems to be civil war among Club 1872 directors. Decisions have to be taken by someone.
DK may have very good ideas for Club 1872, and if he has I'd like to hear them. I know things are unsatisfactory in Club 1872 right now, but personally, because it is DK, then I'd like to know more before kicking out his people.
 
Robert Marshall said:
You will never get 200000 to sign up, IMO
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My original idea was to go for a huge membership based on a one off minimal fee giving life membership. It wasnt about raising funds and tying people down to regular subscriptions. The money isnt or shouldnt be the most important feature. It is at present and its destroying club 1872.

200k is more than achievable IF life time memberships were available to buy as gifts for family and friends. I could easily nominate a dozen people none of whom would be interested in signing up and paying subscriptions. I argued for this when club 1872 was being established but I was told it was better to have more committed members even if the numbers were smaller. Look where that has got us.

The point of having 200k members is it gives the organisation real power politically and commercially. Club 1872 has neither of these.

The membership fee would cover the cost of admin only. Once established with 200k members the organisation would be able to raise money through advertising and other commercial activities, and by setting up a system of regular donations from its members.

Every one of our 50k ST holders would be more than capable of purchasing 3 or 4 memberships for family and friends if the original fee was just a few pounds. As an example Id buy memberships for my sisters, their husbands, the in laws, cousins, my daughters, their husbands, my friends etc etc. None of these people will even know of club 1872s existence but they'd be delighted if I paid for a membership for them.
 
mart22 said:
I accept and respect your point of view.
However, I can't help but feel I want to know from the existing board. DK may feel Club 1872 can't be democratic and implement changes it needs to become a major shareholder. Let's face it there always seems to be civil war among Club 1872 directors. Decisions have to be taken by someone.
DK may have very good ideas for Club 1872, and if he has I'd like to hear them. I know things are unsatisfactory in Club 1872 right now, but personally, because it is DK, then I'd like to know more before kicking out his people.
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Going by your previous posts you seem to be a fan of the present Board, this has nothing to do with DK but everything to do with the contempt 1872 Board has shown towards its members
It's 1872 Members that should be forming the way ahead, no one else and certainly not three individuals that have made themselves Judge and Jury.
DK has no input to this unless he is a member and you want to know the Boards view, drop them an email
 
Pollokprod said:
As someone who done plenty for C1872 in the past and also had a meeting with members about his poor it was running many years ago this all comes at no surprise to me. Many skeletons in the closet here.

Wish Marshall all the best with this. Hope it is all for the right reasons.

C1872 was the right fan vehicle pity it was only a two seater.
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The only reason I have is that this needs to be sorted, I cannot and will not
watch all the years of hard work done by individuals of the RST and RF be destroyed by three people who willfully ignore the rule and constitution of Club 1872 for their own agenda
 
LOL 133 said:
My original idea was to go for a huge membership based on a one off minimal fee giving life membership. It wasnt about raising funds and tying people down to regular subscriptions. The money isnt or shouldnt be the most important feature. It is at present and its destroying club 1872.

200k is more than achievable IF life time memberships were available to buy as gifts for family and friends. I could easily nominate a dozen people none of whom would be interested in signing up and paying subscriptions. I argued for this when club 1872 was being established but I was told it was better to have more committed members even if the numbers were smaller. Look where that has got us.

The point of having 200k members is it gives the organisation real power politically and commercially. Club 1872 has neither of these.

The membership fee would cover the cost of admin only. Once established with 200k members the organisation would be able to raise money through advertising and other commercial activities, and by setting up a system of regular donations from its members.

Every one of our 50k ST holders would be more than capable of purchasing 3 or 4 memberships for family and friends if the original fee was just a few pounds. As an example Id buy memberships for my sisters, their husbands, the in laws, cousins, my daughters, their husbands, my friends etc etc. None of these people will even know of club 1872s existence but they'd be delighted if I paid for a membership for them.
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I don't dislike your idea over the power such numbers would bring, but I feel like you're projecting your own specific set of circumstances to too wide a group of people for this to be accurate.

My extended family also (in the main) support Rangers to some degree, some are C1872 members already and some are not, not one of them would appreciate me signing up on their behalf. I also have a relatively small family compared to you.

For arguments sake, say 50% of ST holders are like me and 50% are like you. That means we now need your 50% to find eight people each to sign up. The numbers don't work for me.
 
Robert Marshall said:
Going by your previous posts you seem to be a fan of the present Board, this has nothing to do with DK but everything to do with the contempt 1872 Board has shown towards its members
It's 1872 Members that should be forming the way ahead, no one else and certainly not three individuals that have made themselves Judge and Jury.
DK has no input to this unless he is a member and you want to know the Boards view, drop them an email
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We've already had this argument Robert. The present Club 1872 board are influenced by DK. If they have a plan for Club 1872 I'd like to hear about it. However, if they don't then they'll have to take their chances with members.
 
Robert Marshall said:
The only reason I have is that this needs to be sorted, I cannot and will not
watch all the years of hard work done by individuals of the RST and RF be destroyed by three people who willfully ignore the rule and constitution of Club 1872 for their own agenda
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Robert, how do I get my details to you agreeing with your proposal.
 
mart22 said:
We've already had this argument Robert. The present Club 1872 board are influenced by DK. If they have a plan for Club 1872 I'd like to hear about it. However, if they don't then they'll have to take their chances with members.
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You say influenced when it; obviously being controlled through a ' shadow Director'
I'll say once again, DK should have no say in Club 1872 unless he is a member
It really is quite simple if you are happy with the governance of Club1872 and the behaviour of the three Directors, you can vote in their favour at the upcoming GM
 
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ID10 said:
The result of the Club 1872 Election is as follows:

James Irvine - 45.4%
George Hoggan - 40.5%
Malcolm Murray - 14.1%

As a result, James Irvine and George Hoggan have been elected to the Club 1872 boards.
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No numbers of votes provided.
 
I stopped my DD to Club 1872 last year after being a member and subscribing to all three fan organisations over the years.

My subscriptions total well over £1000. Maybe £2000.

However, I am no longer regarded as a member of Club 1872 as I do not make a monthly donation.

It may be the rules (is it?) but it is not right.

In my view, being a voting member should not be dependant on a monthly subscription but on a yearly fee. Monthly subscriptions being an option.

I support the principle of a fan organisation but transparency should be a founding tenet.

It’s difficult to see how this can be resolved and get things back on track.

:(
 
Robert Marshall said:
You say influenced when it; obviously being controlled through a ' shadow Director'
I'll say once again, DK should have no say in Club 1872 unless he is a member
It really is quite simple if you are happy with the governance of Club1872 and the behaviour of the three Directors, you can vote in their favour at the upcoming GM
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I'm not happy with the way Club 1872 is operating. The mechanisms that make it work may be suitable for other football supporters, but it's clear the Rangers support need a different business model for our fan base.
Maybe DK does have a plan for an effective Club 1872. If he does I'd like the present directors to communicate it, and the members can consider it.
If you've met all requirements to call the GM then congratulations. It's no small undertaking to front up these things, and being successful confirms the membership shares your concerns.
 
Christine1872 said:
I think it’s 250.
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250 at most.

"... (a) 5% of the Contributors or (b) 250 of the Contributors (whichever is the lower)..."

Obviously a slight difficulty is no-one except the Directors actually knowing how many members there are; the threshold may be lower, if there are now fewer than 5,000 contributing members.
 
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