German Football Fan Culture That Scotland Needs

Korova Milk Bar

Well-Known Member
I decided to look more into the benefits of being a football fan in Germany, some of my favourites that I wish we could possibly adopt are listed below.

Alcohol permitted in stadiums

In Germany you're able to freely purchase alcohol at a reasonable price within the stadium and a cup of beer equates to around £4 with Borussia Dortmund having the lowest price at £3.70. Since alcohol within football stadiums in Scotland has been banned since the 1980 Scottish Cup Final riot it would make sense to bring it back. It would mean fans are more likely to stay around after the game and clubs would receive increased revenue from catering sales.

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Free public transport with a match ticket

If you have a match ticket for a Bundesliga game you are permitted to use public transport such as the bus or train to both home and some away matches across Germany. This is however limited to regional trains only which collaborate with the clubs although it's still something. This is why in Germany it's not uncommon for the likes of Hamburg fans to travel on a Monday night to an away game with over 8,000 fans.

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Finally, the fans...

German supporters groups are known to be some of the best in the world whether that be Dortmund's Yellow Wall or Schalke's "Nordkurve" they are known for their tifos (displays) and constant backing of their team. "Ultras" groups in Scotland aren't all that new with Aberdeen being the first to launch the "Red Ultras" in 1999 and Celtic and Rangers fans followed suit. The first "proper" Ultras group is arguably the Union Bears although I'm aware the Blue Order existed before the conception of the Union Bears.

The Blue Order seemed to focus more on a "British" style of support whereas now the Union Bears take inspiration in a lot of their chants from Hamburg in which they have had a strong friendship with the club's lead Ultras "Castaways".

Below are some examples of how well tifos are carried out in Germany and in the past couple of years the Union Bears have continually improved the quality of all the displays within the stadium.

(CLICK ON THE TITLE OF THE VIDEO AND NOT THE PLAY BUTTON FOR IT TO WORK)


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This thread was just to highlight how underrated football in Germany is and the whole culture surrounding it. There's a lot that we could learn from the Germans to improve our matchdays.
 
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Anyone watch the Union Berlin documentary on BT? Unbelievable. Their stadium is called the "Do it yourself" stadium. When they were skint a few years back they just called on all the fans with building/engineering skills and also unskilled labour and over a couple of years they literally did do it themselves. I think they had a project manager and 6 fully employed construction staff and the rest was the fans giving up their time and muscle. Cracking stadium too.
The whole of German football culture is brilliant.
 
We really some Germans to come and run the football here.

There youth systems, the league administrators etc are lightyears ahead of what we have here.
 
On the subject of alcohol, our unhealthy obsession with drinking as much as we can in as short a period as we can will put the kybosh on that. If folk could be content with a couple of beers during a game then it would be fine. Unfortunately we dont have that healthy relationship with alcohol yet.

As for transport? 8000 fans arent travelling from Hamburg to Stuttgart because of the free transport. The free city transport is restricted to local city trains, buses or trams only. I still need to pay my train from Mannheim to Frankfurt, Stuttgart or Karlsruhe, even if the journey from the HBF to the ground is free. The provision of free local transport to/from the match is also probably a contributing factor to fans drinking at games - in the UK we're still seeing a lot of fans driving to games and that's a barrier to enjoying a beer at the match.

Policing is far more visible at German football games than it is in Scotland. There's a huge presence in German towns and cities on match day. Very visible. Often with riot gear. Karlsruhe v Hannover had a big police presence in the city and escorted transport for away fans to the ground. There wasnt any trouble, but the police presence was significant. Frankfurt v Schalke? I saw more police at that game, in groups of 8 or 10 that usually included a dog handler and a couple of armed officers, than I have at any old firm game.

I love German football and my experiences at the games I've gone to but I think the expectations that people have of the German football experience have to be realistic. Ownership and fan representation for example - would fans in Scotland be quite so eager to see clubs with significant fan ownership and fan representation on club boards?
 
We really some Germans to come and run the football here.

There youth systems, the league administrators etc are lightyears ahead of what we have here.
It seems anytime Scottish football brings in some foreign influence, they're soon overrun by the dinosaurs who have run the game forever. The Dutch guy a few years ago who was going to improve "grass roots" football was soon run out of town.

The recent SPFL/SFA debacle is easy to criticize from a Rangers perspective, but when you look in the cold light of day, the way things were handled was a ludicrous joke.
 
On the subject of alcohol, our unhealthy obsession with drinking as much as we can in as short a period as we can will put the kybosh on that. If folk could be content with a couple of beers during a game then it would be fine. Unfortunately we dont have that healthy relationship with alcohol yet.

As for transport? 8000 fans arent travelling from Hamburg to Stuttgart because of the free transport. The free city transport is restricted to local city trains, buses or trams only. I still need to pay my train from Mannheim to Frankfurt, Stuttgart or Karlsruhe, even if the journey from the HBF to the ground is free. The provision of free local transport to/from the match is also probably a contributing factor to fans drinking at games - in the UK we're still seeing a lot of fans driving to games and that's a barrier to enjoying a beer at the match.

Policing is far more visible at German football games than it is in Scotland. There's a huge presence in German towns and cities on match day. Very visible. Often with riot gear. Karlsruhe v Hannover had a big police presence in the city and escorted transport for away fans to the ground. There wasnt any trouble, but the police presence was significant. Frankfurt v Schalke? I saw more police at that game, in groups of 8 or 10 that usually included a dog handler and a couple of armed officers, than I have at any old firm game.

I love German football and my experiences at the games I've gone to but I think the expectations that people have of the German football experience have to be realistic. Ownership and fan representation for example - would fans in Scotland be quite so eager to see clubs with significant fan ownership and fan representation on club boards?

Reverse chicken and egg thing that though - folk drink as much as they can pre-match because they can't get a drink for the next couple hours at the Stadium.
 
Reverse chicken and egg thing that though - folk drink as much as they can pre-match because they can't get a drink for the next couple hours at the Stadium.

We don't have a healthy drinking culture. It isnt just in a football setting. Whether it's in a pre-covid pub or at home, people in Scotland often drink with the sole purpose of getting drunk. The continental idea of a sociable glass of wine or mug of beer, enjoyed casually and over a period of time, is alien to most Scottish people. That may well change in future generations. Young people now seem to drink less than folk of my generation drank in the 90s and 00s. There's a growing appreciation for craft beer, craft spirits and accepting that in order to enjoy those craft drinks then there's a premium price to be paid which impacts on the volume people can afford to drink. This isnt a football problem. Very few things that are often blamed on football are actually football problems. It's a Scottish society problem.
 
The free transport is a brilliant idea. I doubt it would work in Scotland though - public transport here is woeful (especially compared to the Uber-efficient Germans). Add in the fact that some stadiums are nowhere near decent transport links and it quickly becomes redundant that your train ticket to 5 miles away from the stadium was gratis. However its the thought that counts.

Thinking about transport at events - I used to go to a lot of gigs at the SECC and get the train from Exhibition Centre home. The last train was usually within 5-10min of the end of the gig meaning you might miss the end of the event if you wanted to catch the train. Or you'd need to leave early. And if you had a coat in the cloakroom you'd realise your mistake finding the long queue. I never understood the logic of not connecting a huge event to the public transport links.

I'm torn on alcohol at games. I've been to a few rugby matches where I drank a few beers, mixing with the away fans too. It was a great atmosphere, no trouble at all. But I don't see that kind of atmosphere being possible in football. I think I'd support a trial of it though if it was up for discussion. Hopefully I'd be wrong.
 
We don't have a healthy drinking culture. It isnt just in a football setting. Whether it's in a pre-covid pub or at home, people in Scotland often drink with the sole purpose of getting drunk. The continental idea of a sociable glass of wine or mug of beer, enjoyed casually and over a period of time, is alien to most Scottish people. That may well change in future generations. Young people now seem to drink less than folk of my generation drank in the 90s and 00s. There's a growing appreciation for craft beer, craft spirits and accepting that in order to enjoy those craft drinks then there's a premium price to be paid which impacts on the volume people can afford to drink. This isnt a football problem. Very few things that are often blamed on football are actually football problems. It's a Scottish society problem.
Yeah but the point he’s making is banning it from the ground doesn’t make folk drink less , it’s the reason you see bottles of Buckie mad dog etc get tanned just before the game . That off licence on the Copland road does mega trade when we play .
 
German fan culture is light years ahead of ours. Fans are allowed to, and encouraged to think for themselves. They are trusted. They are respected.
 
Watching the Borussia Dortmund series on Amazon one of the most impressive things was the Dortmund fans staying to the end even as the team was losing, and the players acknowledging them at the end.

As for the drinking? In Scotland we can handle the ban on alcohol even though we mostly all drank to excess in the old days. It's the 'in - between' - drinking moderately - that seems to be beyond us.

It's very difficult to change a culture but we should definitely be looking at cultures like Germany's to learn from what they get right and see what we can import.
 
Yeah but the point he’s making is banning it from the ground doesn’t make folk drink less , it’s the reason you see bottles of Buckie mad dog etc get tanned just before the game . That off licence on the Copland road does mega trade when we play .

Banning it from grounds doent make people drink less. Allowing it in grounds won't let them drink less either. If fans are drunk then they shouldn't be given access to the ground. Right now there's just too much risk of fans getting drunk inside the ground to allow alcohol sales pre-match and during the match and alcohol to be consumed in stands.
 
Banning it from grounds doent make people drink less. Allowing it in grounds won't let them drink less either. If fans are drunk then they shouldn't be given access to the ground. Right now there's just too much risk of fans getting drunk inside the ground to allow alcohol sales pre-match and during the match and alcohol to be consumed in stands.

Plenty fans are drunk inside the ground as it is so I don't believe it would make a huge difference. Anytime you see someone up in court due to throwing things on the pitch or whatever, the main excuse/defence is excessive drinking.

As it is, people like me will travel 5 hours before kick off to get a drink in the pub because we can't drink on the bus there or in the ground. It's daft.
 
Plenty fans are drunk inside the ground as it is so I don't believe it would make a huge difference. Anytime you see someone up in court due to throwing things on the pitch or whatever, the main excuse/defence is excessive drinking.

As it is, people like me will travel 5 hours before kick off to get a drink in the pub because we can't drink on the bus there or in the ground. It's daft.
Genuine question - if you were allowed to drink in a Rangers fan zone, then get a drink during the game, do you think you'd drink more or less?

I can see an argument that some people will tan a few pints quickly as they'll not have another drink for 2 hours inside the stadium, whereas if you were allowed a couple of pints you might slow down...
 
Banning it from grounds doent make people drink less. Allowing it in grounds won't let them drink less either. If fans are drunk then they shouldn't be given access to the ground. Right now there's just too much risk of fans getting drunk inside the ground to allow alcohol sales pre-match and during the match and alcohol to be consumed in stands.
God we wouldn’t have many away fans if people who were drunk weren’t allowed in .
And despite the ban plenty still drink in the stands anyways. If there wasn’t a ban the binge drinking before would be know where near as bad .
 
Plenty fans are drunk inside the ground as it is so I don't believe it would make a huge difference. Anytime you see someone up in court due to throwing things on the pitch or whatever, the main excuse/defence is excessive drinking.

As it is, people like me will travel 5 hours before kick off to get a drink in the pub because we can't drink on the bus there or in the ground. It's daft.
You guys still travel with Montrose and Brechin wernt dry buses when I was going with them nearly 20 years ago mind .
Certainly our fair share gets consumed from Inverness .
 
Genuine question - if you were allowed to drink in a Rangers fan zone, then get a drink during the game, do you think you'd drink more or less?

I can see an argument that some people will tan a few pints quickly as they'll not have another drink for 2 hours inside the stadium, whereas if you were allowed a couple of pints you might slow down...

I think we'd drink about the same - as it is there's always an extra couple of nips downed quickly before we leave the pub, and occasionally another couple quick bottles after the game before the bus leaves.
 
You guys still travel with Montrose and Brechin wernt dry buses when I was going with them nearly 20 years ago mind .
Certainly our fair share gets consumed from Inverness .

Numbers are good at both clubs and are usually running separate buses again. Generally dry buses.
 
only been to German grounds for numerous Rangers away euro games but based on experience of travelling all over Europe the last couple of decades it’s the best place to watch football in Europe IMO. Great bars and restaurants in the cities, excellent transport links, fantastic stadiums with excellent facilities, good policing, friendly locals. Never had a bad trip to Germany.
 
Free public transport with a match ticket

If you have a match ticket for a Bundesliga game you are permitted to use public transport such as the bus or train to both home and some away matches across Germany. This is why in Germany it's not uncommon for the likes of Hamburg fans to travel across Germany on a Monday night with over 8,000 fans.

The number of times I have heard journalists or "experts" reel this absolute bullshit off is staggering. As already mentioned it is only in the area itself, Bayern Munich don't actually include it. Same with season ticket prices, love to see a good Journalist really go in deep on that subject and the price of a standing season ticket, how many there are, who can get them, the price of membership as at some Clubs you have to be a member to buy a season ticket - Union never mentioned that in their big documentary.

More and more Booze is being limited, with Hansa I would say 1 in 2 away matches and some home matches have no booze. Bavaria is bad for limiting Booze in Grounds, can be well ott. Mannheim actually only serve 2.5% Booze because of what happened with Offenbach years go.

This lad is the best when it comes to this subject:


It's great but it ain't the Utopia many have had it painted out to them as.
 
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I've seen adverts for free public transport for Glasgow Warriors games, if you have a ticket. Can't remember if it was the bus or train. If it can be done for rugby, why not football? I'm sure there will be some way the Subway barriers could recognise ST smart cards.
 
Free public transport with a match ticket

If you have a match ticket for a Bundesliga game you are permitted to use public transport such as the bus or train to both home and some away matches across Germany. This is why in Germany it's not uncommon for the likes of Hamburg fans to travel across Germany on a Monday night with over 8,000 fans.

The number of times I have heard journalists or "experts" reel this absolute bullshit off is staggering. As already mentioned it is only in the area itself, Bayern Munich don't actually include it. Same with season ticket prices, love to see a good Journalist really go in deep on that subject and the price of a standing season ticket, how many there are, who can get them, the price of membership as at some Clubs you have to be a member to buy a season ticket - Union never mentioned that in their big documentary.

More and more Booze is being limited, with Hansa I would say 1 in 2 away matches and some home matches have no booze. Bavaria is bad for limiting Booze in Grounds, can be well ott. Mannheim actually only serve 2.5% Booze because of what happened with Offenbach years go.

This lad is the best when it comes to this subject:


It's great but it ain't the Utopia many have had it painted out to them as.
May have worded it incorrectly, should've added it's restricted to regional trains which then approve clubs for it to work, I would've spent more time on the thread but just wanted to give our fans an insight. I'm in no way a journalist by any means.
 
Anyone watch the Union Berlin documentary on BT? Unbelievable. Their stadium is called the "Do it yourself" stadium. When they were skint a few years back they just called on all the fans with building/engineering skills and also unskilled labour and over a couple of years they literally did do it themselves. I think they had a project manager and 6 fully employed construction staff and the rest was the fans giving up their time and muscle. Cracking stadium too.
The whole of German football culture is brilliant.

Never heard it called that before, did they say that on the documentary or something?
 
Thanks for the feedback guys, I am no way a journalist by any means I was just trying to create a good thread on the forum for a discussion. Should've maybe worded things a little better.
 
Free public transport with a match ticket

If you have a match ticket for a Bundesliga game you are permitted to use public transport such as the bus or train to both home and some away matches across Germany. This is why in Germany it's not uncommon for the likes of Hamburg fans to travel across Germany on a Monday night with over 8,000 fans.

The number of times I have heard journalists or "experts" reel this absolute bullshit off is staggering. As already mentioned it is only in the area itself, Bayern Munich don't actually include it. Same with season ticket prices, love to see a good Journalist really go in deep on that subject and the price of a standing season ticket, how many there are, who can get them, the price of membership as at some Clubs you have to be a member to buy a season ticket - Union never mentioned that in their big documentary.

More and more Booze is being limited, with Hansa I would say 1 in 2 away matches and some home matches have no booze. Bavaria is bad for limiting Booze in Grounds, can be well ott. Mannheim actually only serve 2.5% Booze because of what happened with Offenbach years go.

This lad is the best when it comes to this subject:


It's great but it ain't the Utopia many have had it painted out to them as.

I havent been to a Waldhof game yet. I really want to but I've heard plenty of stories about how bad some of the Mannheim fans can be. I've got a mate who used to date a girl from Heilbronn and he's seen it a bit crazy on match day. The pub I drink in when I'm in Mannheim closes for big derby games like Mannheim v Kaiserlautern because of the trouble that the games can attract.
 
May have worded it incorrectly, should've added it's restricted to regional trains which then approve clubs for it to work, I would've spent more time on the thread but just wanted to give our fans an insight. I'm in no way a journalist by any means.

No bother, loads of people come out with it though because they have read stuff online about that subject and it just spreads, been hearing it for years. Same with a fair few issues from there.
 
May have worded it incorrectly, should've added it's restricted to regional trains which then approve clubs for it to work, I would've spent more time on the thread but just wanted to give our fans an insight. I'm in no way a journalist by any means.

It isnt even regional trains.

I can get a regional train from Mannheim to Karlsruhe, Kaiserslautern or Frankfurt. My match ticket doesnt cover the travel costs so for Frankfurt and Karlsruhe I got an ICE because it was quick and handy. The city travel, if included with your ticket, is restricted to s-bahn trains within the city itself, tram lines or bus services within the city itself.
 
I havent been to a Waldhof game yet. I really want to but I've heard plenty of stories about how bad some of the Mannheim fans can be. I've got a mate who used to date a girl from Heilbronn and he's seen it a bit crazy on match day. The pub I drink in when I'm in Mannheim closes for big derby games like Mannheim v Kaiserlautern because of the trouble that the games can attract.
German hooligan groups are extremely organised, they'll prearrange fights often before and after games. Can remember a Hamburg and Schalke fight that attracted a lot of attention. That's why the German Police separate entire supporters groups far apart from each other when marching to the stadium.
 
It isnt even regional trains.

I can get a regional train from Mannheim to Karlsruhe, Kaiserslautern or Frankfurt. My match ticket doesnt cover the travel costs so for Frankfurt and Karlsruhe I got an ICE because it was quick and handy. The city travel, if included with your ticket, is restricted to s-bahn trains within the city itself, tram lines or bus services within the city itself.
Stand corrected again. Oh well, I just thought we could have some positivity after the recent result. :))
 
It isnt even regional trains.

I can get a regional train from Mannheim to Karlsruhe, Kaiserslautern or Frankfurt. My match ticket doesnt cover the travel costs so for Frankfurt and Karlsruhe I got an ICE because it was quick and handy. The city travel, if included with your ticket, is restricted to s-bahn trains within the city itself, tram lines or bus services within the city itself.

It is regional trains in some areas, Dusseldorf area where it goes furthest I think. Also Stuttgart covers a fair lot of ground.
 
Free travel yes.

Booze, no. I don't want to be sitting beside a drunk at the game. No chance men will have 1 or 2.
 
German hooligan groups are extremely organised, they'll prearrange fights often before and after games. Can remember a Hamburg and Schalke fight that attracted a lot of attention. That's why the German Police separate entire supporters groups far apart from each other when marching to the stadium.

A lot of that stuff doesn't even happen on matchday to be honest, it's amazing how many different types of lad fall under the umbrella of an Ultra in Germany from what I have seen.
 
German hooligan groups are extremely organised, they'll prearrange fights often before and after games. Can remember a Hamburg and Schalke fight that attracted a lot of attention. That's why the German Police separate entire supporters groups far apart from each other when marching to the stadium.

The police presence at my first German game - Frankfurt v Schalke - was a real shock. Fans were mixing in the station before the game, on the s-bahn to the game and inside the ground. The police presence was massive. That would have played a part in how well the game seemed to go but I've never seen that many officers, including armed officers with pistols in visible holsters, around a football ground. Inside the big perimeter fence at the Commerzbank? Very few police and really not that many stewards. Guys at the turnstiles didnt %^*& about. We'd been at the SAP the previous night for a hockey game and the stewards on the turnstiles were really friendly. Quick pat down. One of the stewards was checking a regular and his kids and he picked the youngest up, shook him up and down gently to see if anything fell out (clearly having a bit of fun) and sent the family through. At the football? I was lucky to get in with a small Canon compact camera and the guy on the turnstile who patted me down was rough and thorough.

For Karlsruhe v Hannover 96 last year me and my mate ended up coming out of the wrong door at the station and went straight into the area that was penned off for away fans. Again a load of police. We asked if we'd be ok to get the bus even though we had home section tickets - the police officer smiled, laughed and said that we'd probably be ok but that we should still be on our guard. Again the fans were mixing around the ground but it was restricted inside due to Karlsruhe's ground reconstruction. Full time? both sets of fans were walking along the edge of the palace grounds to the nearest tram stop without any trouble and without the segregation that we saw pre-match.
 
The police presence at my first German game - Frankfurt v Schalke - was a real shock. Fans were mixing in the station before the game, on the s-bahn to the game and inside the ground. The police presence was massive. That would have played a part in how well the game seemed to go but I've never seen that many officers, including armed officers with pistols in visible holsters, around a football ground. Inside the big perimeter fence at the Commerzbank? Very few police and really not that many stewards. Guys at the turnstiles didnt %^*& about. We'd been at the SAP the previous night for a hockey game and the stewards on the turnstiles were really friendly. Quick pat down. One of the stewards was checking a regular and his kids and he picked the youngest up, shook him up and down gently to see if anything fell out (clearly having a bit of fun) and sent the family through. At the football? I was lucky to get in with a small Canon compact camera and the guy on the turnstile who patted me down was rough and thorough.

For Karlsruhe v Hannover 96 last year me and my mate ended up coming out of the wrong door at the station and went straight into the area that was penned off for away fans. Again a load of police. We asked if we'd be ok to get the bus even though we had home section tickets - the police officer smiled, laughed and said that we'd probably be ok but that we should still be on our guard. Again the fans were mixing around the ground but it was restricted inside due to Karlsruhe's ground reconstruction. Full time? both sets of fans were walking along the edge of the palace grounds to the nearest tram stop without any trouble and without the segregation that we saw pre-match.

Most I have seen was Munich Derby - Under 23's playing each other and Karlsruhe v Hansa. The latter was a Sunday in April, meaningless match as neither could go up or down, obviously Rostock is about 9 hours by road. No booze but loads of Cops, even a bloody Helicopter out, kept in after match for about an hour, load of bollocks really - reminded me of going Football in Britain!
 
The police presence at my first German game - Frankfurt v Schalke - was a real shock. Fans were mixing in the station before the game, on the s-bahn to the game and inside the ground. The police presence was massive. That would have played a part in how well the game seemed to go but I've never seen that many officers, including armed officers with pistols in visible holsters, around a football ground. Inside the big perimeter fence at the Commerzbank? Very few police and really not that many stewards. Guys at the turnstiles didnt %^*& about. We'd been at the SAP the previous night for a hockey game and the stewards on the turnstiles were really friendly. Quick pat down. One of the stewards was checking a regular and his kids and he picked the youngest up, shook him up and down gently to see if anything fell out (clearly having a bit of fun) and sent the family through. At the football? I was lucky to get in with a small Canon compact camera and the guy on the turnstile who patted me down was rough and thorough.

For Karlsruhe v Hannover 96 last year me and my mate ended up coming out of the wrong door at the station and went straight into the area that was penned off for away fans. Again a load of police. We asked if we'd be ok to get the bus even though we had home section tickets - the police officer smiled, laughed and said that we'd probably be ok but that we should still be on our guard.
Personally I think Police Scotland don't have enough officers etc for Old Firm games because fights etc still happen whereas in Germany it's really restricted to very much prearranged fights between supporters groups. There's also much more animosity towards the Police in general from German football supporters from police brutality to also receiving stadium bans.

That being said I couldn't get into Ibrox with a Capri Sun.

Back when the Chosen Few was around, you wouldn't see this in Scotland. :))


 
Watching the Borussia Dortmund series on Amazon one of the most impressive things was the Dortmund fans staying to the end even as the team was losing, and the players acknowledging them at the end.

As for the drinking? In Scotland we can handle the ban on alcohol even though we mostly all drank to excess in the old days. It's the 'in - between' - drinking moderately - that seems to be beyond us.

It's very difficult to change a culture but we should definitely be looking at cultures like Germany's to learn from what they get right and see what we can import.

One thing I love is the way they are in early and leave after clapping or having a go at the players after the final whistle. I really dislike not being in for kick off over there because the choreos etc can be great and the general buzz, also win or lose seeing the reaction between fans and players once the match has finished.
 
Reverse chicken and egg thing that though - folk drink as much as they can pre-match because they can't get a drink for the next couple hours at the Stadium.
Mate if you can't go a couple of hours without a drink you have a problem.I don't get why people want to get hammered before a game.You miss The game and can't remember much about it.
Personally I like 2or 3 pints before the game then retire to the pub for the post mortem.
 
We don't have a healthy drinking culture. It isnt just in a football setting. Whether it's in a pre-covid pub or at home, people in Scotland often drink with the sole purpose of getting drunk. The continental idea of a sociable glass of wine or mug of beer, enjoyed casually and over a period of time, is alien to most Scottish people. That may well change in future generations. Young people now seem to drink less than folk of my generation drank in the 90s and 00s. There's a growing appreciation for craft beer, craft spirits and accepting that in order to enjoy those craft drinks then there's a premium price to be paid which impacts on the volume people can afford to drink. This isnt a football problem. Very few things that are often blamed on football are actually football problems. It's a Scottish society problem.
The young ones are dabbling in more than just drink though and have been for years now.
 
We can't even get people to stay till the end of the game never mind grow fan culture. Some fans see the game as an inconvenience during their all day bender
 
Done a mini German tour a few years back and they know how to create an atmosphere.
They certainly look after supporters ,with regional transport free to games.
Alcohol permitted in grounds and trains direct to most grounds.
Was in Bremen train station and there were Bayern Munich ,Bremen ,Hamburg and the odd Leverkusen supporters mingling with no hint of trouble.
Imagine Us ,them ,Aberdeen and Hibs supporters in Queen Street pre match.:rolleyes:
 
I've seen adverts for free public transport for Glasgow Warriors games, if you have a ticket. Can't remember if it was the bus or train. If it can be done for rugby, why not football? I'm sure there will be some way the Subway barriers could recognise ST smart cards.
Volume of fans v lost revenue
 
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