Gerrard has more points this season - at the same stage - than the last three times we won the league.

SmileyBear

Well-Known Member
Well they wouldn't have that much freedom from a simple goal kick if we were defending a lead instead of chasing a winner or at least you'd hope not
They did and they scored from it, our poor finishing after having 14 shots on target is our problem we can look for blame everywhere else but our players upfront aren't contributing enough.
 

DazRFC94

Well-Known Member
Wow. Some teams got worse, some teams got better in the last decade. Shock horror.
Who got better? Teams like Livingston who simply have to put in a plastic pitch and 11 men behind the ball to get into the top 6?

Aye very good. The overall quality has decreased significantly.
 

Howlin Wolf

Well-Known Member
3 more wins, a cup final appearence and yet more progression in Europe including wins AND remaining unbeaten against Feyenoord and Porto over 4 games.

Last three weeks doesn't alter that fact. It's been a horrible 3 weeks but I'm not going to sit here and kid myself that we're not learning anything as a team.
Losing to Hearts after drawing there earlier in the season? dropping 4 points to Aberdeen already after losses and draws to them last season suggests nothing learned, 4 wins in 10 against Kilmarnock including another defeat at Rugby Park after 2 there last season? To
me this doesn’t really paint a good picture of a management team learning from their mistakes.
 

BlueSeaOfIbrox

Well-Known Member
That doesn’t take into account the decline in quality of the ‘other 10’. The Bheasts are taking more points from the rest than either of us did a decade ago, we aren’t.

Any Walter team from 2007-2011 would wipe the floor with our current team.
It also doesn't take into account points lost/gained by referee's poor officilating.

or where we were at 2 years ago.

Or the financial differences between both clubs then and now.

There's 2 sides to every coin
 

SmileyBear

Well-Known Member
This is something I've been saying a lot.
Gerrard and the team have been harshly judged here, almost all title winning teams have poor spells like this but the fact Celtic are so consistent this season makes it look worse.
They have a striker that out scores our main striker with eight extra goals and two midfielders who are one or two off what our main striker has that is our main problem, we do not covert the chances we make.

We need better strikers and midfielders who can chip in as well or we will always be trailing them Gerrard instead bought a load of wingers he does not play.
 

Jack Burton

Well-Known Member
The gap between ourselves and the scum with the rest of the league is as big as it’s ever been in my time as a supporter.

I don’t see it decreasing either, quite the opposite.
 

ScottXC

Well-Known Member
See the doom merchants focusing on the smaller teams but totally neglect the fact that we are facing a Celtic team far better than anything we have seen in recent times that has double the budget we do.
Yet, head to head with them it's literally even over this season and last. In the league we've played 6, won 3 and lost 3.

The budget is a moot point when the points we're dropping and let slip are to teams with a budget meager in comparison to ours.

We're losing the league because we're dropping points against the dross, not them.
 

SDF

Well-Known Member
Who got better? Teams like Livingston who simply have to put in a plastic pitch and 11 men behind the ball to get into the top 6?

Aye very good. The overall quality has decreased significantly.
Aberdeen (6th at this stage in 2009)
Motherwell (7th at this stage in 2009)
Kilmarnock (9th at this stage in 2009)
 

Bigbluebear

Well-Known Member
Losing to Hearts after drawing there earlier in the season? dropping 4 points to Aberdeen already after losses and draws to them last season suggests nothing learned, 4 wins in 10 against Kilmarnock including another defeat at Rugby Park after 2 there last season? To
me this doesn’t really paint a good picture of a management team learning from their mistakes.
In one of Walter's 3 in a row seasons we didn't win at either Tynecastle or Pittodrie in the same season.

We also drew 3 games in a row 0-0.

These things happen
 

The Crimson King

Well-Known Member
This is true but it's also harsh to be over critical when they're rarely dropping points.
Of course we need to aim to be like that though.
I agree mate, it is harsh. It's also sadly what league winning teams need to be doing.

I imagine if you look back over the last 9 years we probably have more points at this stage than most of the Celtic teams in that time did. But I don't think it's any coincidence that they are doing so much better this season either; they are likely playing so well BECAUSE we pushed them so hard in the first 6 months, because that's what you need to do as a league winning team, you need to rise to and best the level of opposition.

It doesn't matter what it looked like in previous years, if we want to be successful we need to beat what we're up against now.
 

Inveruriebear

Active Member
How many points could we have been if it wasn't for some terrible refereeing decisions? Yes we've not played great since the break but the Morelos goal on Wednesday should have seen us get 3 points
Add on the 2 from Shitoddrie when denied a stonewall pen ! But our form since returning is still honking but these factors have to be included
 

Rangerstid72

Well-Known Member
They are miles ahead of the rest, including us, in every single area, department . Be it development, scouting, PR, whatever!
I bought into what I was told, they'll fold like a pack of cards, etc, etc! Well they haven't, we have.
I'm angry and I'm hurting. Unfortunately it appears that those who can change what has become the status quo aren't.
There's lies, damn lies and statistics!
 

Bigbluebear

Well-Known Member
Who got better? Teams like Livingston who simply have to put in a plastic pitch and 11 men behind the ball to get into the top 6?

Aye very good. The overall quality has decreased significantly.
Aberdeen, Hibs, Motherwell and Kilmarnock are significantly better and tougher to beat than when we last won the league.

Hearts are significantly worse.

Hamilton, St Johnstone, Livingston, St Mirren, Ross County all on a par with the standard of the rest of the teams then.

The likes of Edouard, Ajer, Forster, Julien, McGregor are significantly better than some of the tripe celtic had in their team back then when they had Glenn loovens, majstorovic, mulgrew, samaras, stokes etc
 

jaws73

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
What can't be argued is the current League Table reflects our current financial position (i.e. comfortably behind them but substantially ahead of Aberdeen).

We are handi-capped straight away which makes a league title difficult though not impossible.

The saving grace has been Europe (the Board will understandably view the last two efforts as good as a trophy win).

How we compete with them financially is the main issue now, not the management team (who are actually doing better than I expected for a rookie group).
 

BlueYoda

Member
The problem is no matter how many points we have they have more.
Teams just don't try against them the way they do against us.
Look at Hearts as an example ,ran themselves in to the ground against us . Never bothered their arses against them.
 

laud55

Active Member
Unfortunately you cannot polish points any more than you can polish progress at the end of the season. None of us should need reminding that it is an increasingly long time since we won a top flight trophy and that is my own measure of progress.
 

Laudrup1

Well-Known Member
Poorer standard of opposition has to be taken into account.
Which is why Celtic have even more points than the stats in the OP too.

We're better than we were last season. There's been improvement on our part reaching the LCF, having more poits in the league, scoring more goals and conceding less as well as a clear improvement in our European results.

It's been a horrific run of games in the last 10 days or so but it's a blip on what has been an improved season.

We need Celtic to stumble. We'll not win the league until that happens.
 

RowdyYates

Member
Official Ticketer
They are miles ahead of the rest, including us, in every single area, department . Be it development, scouting, PR, whatever!
I bought into what I was told, they'll fold like a pack of cards, etc, etc! Well they haven't, we have.
I'm angry and I'm hurting. Unfortunately it appears that those who can change what has become the status quo aren't.
There's lies, damn lies and statistics!
Don't agree. The only player who has been a success that Lennon bought is the centre half and the goalie on loan. We win at most levels beneath the first team so that department are doing their job. I'm with you on PR.
 

Laudrup1

Well-Known Member
Unfortunately you cannot polish points any more than you can polish progress at the end of the season. None of us should need reminding that it is an increasingly long time since we won a top flight trophy and that is my own measure of progress.
True but it's not black and white. You have to have the gradual improvements to reach that eventual goal. There is no magic swich which suddenly makes it all work.
 

Laudrup1

Well-Known Member
They are miles ahead of the rest, including us, in every single area, department . Be it development, scouting, PR, whatever!
I bought into what I was told, they'll fold like a pack of cards, etc, etc! Well they haven't, we have.
I'm angry and I'm hurting. Unfortunately it appears that those who can change what has become the status quo aren't.
There's lies, damn lies and statistics!
We haven't folded at all. We've had a few horrific results in an otherwise improvement on last year.

Celtic will collapse at one point just as we did (despite being miles ahead of them in every department) in 1997/98.
 

AllanD

Well-Known Member
Teams back then were more competitive against us and them this is not the case now, the standard of player in Scotland now is very poor.
They alsdi
Who got better? Teams like Livingston who simply have to put in a plastic pitch and 11 men behind the ball to get into the top 6?

Aye very good. The overall quality has decreased significantly.
While the quality has decreased, they have counteracted that by sitting in and defending like their life depends on it. Teams are harder to score against than they were.
 

RedWhiteBlue

Well-Known Member
3 more wins, a cup final appearence and yet more progression in Europe including wins AND remaining unbeaten against Feyenoord and Porto over 4 games.

Last three weeks doesn't alter that fact. It's been a horrible 3 weeks but I'm not going to sit here and kid myself that we're not learning anything as a team.

We've scored more goals, conceded less goals, gained more points.
Ah yes but I heard on Clyde One and BBC Scotland that none of that matters and only finishing first in the league matters!

Chris Sutton said "how many trophies have you won" so instead of rebuilding and carefully trying to get the most out of our limited funds we should rip it all up and start again.

If people stopped listening to tarriers in the Scottish media (which is basically set up by Rangers haters, for Rangers haters) and actually looked for the progress that we've made then they'd see that.

You've got to hope that stuff like this does not filter through to the board, the management, or our squad because I would say that the obsession with them could become a bit of a weakness that forces rash decisions that end up hurting us long term.

"The quality of the other 10 has changed, they are worse now".

Surely if that's a factor then our ongoing recovery from the events of 2012 needs to be a factor also?

We had 5 entire seasons without European football before getting bumped out by some mob from Luxembourg on our return. 2 seasons later we are beating Feyenoord and Porto at Ibrox.

Though I heard from John Hartson on TV that only trophies matter so f*ck it, i guess.

Let's demand that Gerrard be fired and start over because the tarrier media has us so utterly convinced anything less than winning the league is failure that we don't see or appreciate the incremental improvements being made now that will lead to our success in the future.
 

Tugay83

Well-Known Member
Teams back then were more competitive against us and them this is not the case now, the standard of player in Scotland now is very poor.
Disagree. They were nearly all totally broke and desperately selling off players to keep the banks from the door from the late 90s onwards.
 

SDF

Well-Known Member
Aberdeen, Hibs, Motherwell and Kilmarnock are significantly better and tougher to beat than when we last won the league.

Hearts are significantly worse.

Hamilton, St Johnstone, Livingston, St Mirren, Ross County all on a par with the standard of the rest of the teams then.

The likes of Edouard, Ajer, Forster, Julien, McGregor are significantly better than some of the tripe celtic had in their team back then when they had Glenn loovens, majstorovic, mulgrew, samaras, stokes etc
Celtic were winning the league with a back four of Telfer, Caldwell, McManus and Naylor. A midfield of a past it Lennon, Hartley, Nakamura and McGeady and a front two of Vennegoor of Hesselink and Scott fúcking McDonald.

This current Celtic team would wipe the floor with that mob.
 

SmileyBear

Well-Known Member
Disagree. They were nearly all totally broke and desperately selling off players to keep the banks from the door from the late 90s onwards.
Now we have loan player as clubs cant afford to spend money and the clubs now are only afloat since we came back as they were struggling.
you know we are struggling when we have to go back in time to suggest we could possibly win leagues with our current form.
 

Portadown_Bear

Well-Known Member
Lessons have clearly been learned.

Otherwise we wouldn't be 9 points better off same stage last season.
I'd love to find all those threads when Gerrard took over about how this was a 5 year project.

Anyone who doesn't think there has been improvement in the last 18 months needs sectioned for their own mental sanity.
 

devilman

Well-Known Member
And yet we're still in a pretty poor position considering. Added to that, we're really struggling at the moment and that isn't going to bode well. It'll be where we end up at the end of the season that counts.
 

Danger Zone

Just the tip...
Ultimately the only thing that matters is that when we got to the second half of the season we capitulated at the same stage once again. That’s the only bit that counts, and it’s particularly disappointing when you look at the sides we’ve folded to.

Someone said Aberdeen and Hearts are the two sides who have went farthest backwards this season in terms of points, well isn’t it ridiculous that those are two of the sides that have effectively ended our title challenge (I’m not even sure you can call it a real challenge in early February). We’re 9 points better off yet the timing of the collapse suggests the exactly the same issue is present in terms of mentality and being able to keep the heads after new year when the pressure goes up a notch.
 

RedWhiteBlue

Well-Known Member
They are miles ahead of the rest, including us, in every single area, department . Be it development, scouting, PR, whatever!
I bought into what I was told, they'll fold like a pack of cards, etc, etc! Well they haven't, we have.
I'm angry and I'm hurting. Unfortunately it appears that those who can change what has become the status quo aren't.
There's lies, damn lies and statistics!
It's true though. They will inevitably screw things up. Might be bad signings down the line, a dodgy manager, their board deciding they don't need to invest so much to win the league, bad luck, loss of form. Nothing lasts forever.

We just have to make sure we are there to take advantage when they do stumble. It's just not this season.

We are 19 points clear of 3rd place but still 10 points behind 1st place.
Season before last we finished 3rd.

We are improving but it's going to take time.
The world doesn't end if they win 10 in a row.
We just need to keep improving ourselves bit by bit so that when the opportunity comes we are able to take it.
 
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