Gerrard has more points this season - at the same stage - than the last three times we won the league.

i won't ever be able to handle 4 wins in 10 against kilmarnock as good or reasonable or inevitable

other's mileage may vary

Yup you can ignore the progress in Europe and in the league and hold onto the negatives.

It's probably what the majority will do anyway and then they will be turning to the board to pull a rabbit out of a hat when they've decided SG had to go.

It's what we do-focus on the negative which is fine but you won't hear an alternative and it would be pretty annoying to point out an awful lot of posters who were going completely OTT about how good we were are the same ones now scratching their head and looking for their pitchfork.

It's predictable and inevitable and honestly what we are looking at is the pretty strong possibility they are going to go on to win an unprecedented amount of titles-forcing SG out the door and demanding another rebuild is likely to increase that number.

It strikes me that this is unlikely to change unless we get a massive break that doesn't look likely at this stage.
 
Have you looked at the team selection in Europa League group stages compared to team selection in the 25 league games? Apart from the forward right position and using either Helander or Katic our best team is Greegsy,Tav,Goldson,Katic/Helander,Barisic,Davis,Jack,Kamara,Kent and Alfie plus a n other.This list of players have been made up 10 of our 11 players in all Europa League group games unless unfit (and also the semi final and final of the league cup) contrast that with the 25 league games,the players from this list have made up 10 out of the 11 players in one solitary league game,our 2-1 win against that lot

It's no more complicated than European football suits our team better and that Europe came when the team was fresher and we had less important injuries than we've had recently.
 
It's no more complicated than European football suits our team better and that Europe came when the team was fresher and we had less important injuries than we've had recently.

It's also brought in the guts of about £28m to the clubs coffers for much needed revenue. And by much needed I mean, we'd be seriously struggling without it. It's not a trophy but Gerrard deserves huge credit for even getting us to this stage.

I get that people are pissed off at the collapse over the past three weeks. But we have two choices here - we back the manager who has a track record of continual improvement over 18 months or we bin him and start all over again.
 
It's also brought in the guts of about £28m to the clubs coffers for much needed revenue. And by much needed I mean, we'd be seriously struggling without it. It's not a trophy but Gerrard deserves huge credit for even getting us to this stage.

I get that people are pissed off at the collapse over the past three weeks. But we have two choices here - we back the manager who has a track record of continual improvement over 18 months or we bin him and start all over again.

It doesn't matter SDF trying to reason when it's likely the support has to live through more Celtic success with Lennon at the helm. Reason is being and will be ignored.

We really require a very quick turnaround and some big positives or we are looking at something extremely damaging to the club-both in terms of the success they will probably attain and the reaction from our support.
 
It's no more complicated than European football suits our team better and that Europe came when the team was fresher and we had less important injuries than we've had recently.
In the league we have won the games even when 9 players from that list have started,it`s when the amount of players from the list drops to 8 and 7 we dropped points,Arfield and Aribo have both played more league minutes than Davis,Jack or Kamara,only 7 from that list started at Rugby Park
 
It's also brought in the guts of about £28m to the clubs coffers for much needed revenue. And by much needed I mean, we'd be seriously struggling without it. It's not a trophy but Gerrard deserves huge credit for even getting us to this stage.

I get that people are pissed off at the collapse over the past three weeks. But we have two choices here - we back the manager who has a track record of continual improvement over 18 months or we bin him and start all over again.
Exactly,Europa League money at this time is imperative for the club
 
In the league we have won the games even when 9 players from that list have started,it`s when the amount of players from the list drops to 8 and 7 we dropped points,Arfield and Aribo have both played more league minutes than Davis,Jack or Kamara,only 7 from that list started at Rugby Park

Jack has been injured twice this season.

Davis has been vastly overrated imo and has got worse after the break.

Kamara is a total bargain but nowhere near the level of consistency we need.

Nearly all of our European games are when the team was fresher and to repeat allows our team to play to it's strengths. Scottish football is a different challenge.

People are overthinking things-it's not bottling or formations or anything else it's a pretty stretched squad that has had different issues come together at the same time not least 3 or more key players missing at a time along with a team wide drop in form...collectively and individually.
 
It's also brought in the guts of about £28m to the clubs coffers for much needed revenue. And by much needed I mean, we'd be seriously struggling without it. It's not a trophy but Gerrard deserves huge credit for even getting us to this stage.

I get that people are pissed off at the collapse over the past three weeks. But we have two choices here - we back the manager who has a track record of continual improvement over 18 months or we bin him and start all over again.

its not a collapse over 3 weeks

we regularly utterly toil against spl cannon fodder

hence the 4 win in 10 against kilmarnock over 2 seasons
 
its not a collapse over 3 weeks

we regularly utterly toil against spl cannon fodder

hence the 4 win in 10 against kilmarnock over 2 seasons

It quite clearly is a collapse over three weeks.......you do remember what SG inherited no?

Whilst the club has stretched itself to finance SG we are still a fair bit away from the squad quality they have.

You can focus on the negatives but the reality is in league terms we are miles ahead of everyone except them and noticeably better than last season.

Clearly SG has made progress.
 
100% behind SG. He’s a rookie manager and learning his trade. unfortunately for us that means ups and downs until he gains the experience. IMHO he will be a top manager
 
It quite clearly is a collapse over three weeks.......you do remember what SG inherited no?

Whilst the club has stretched itself to finance SG we are still a fair bit away from the squad quality they have.

You can focus on the negatives but the reality is in league terms we are miles ahead of everyone except them and noticeably better than last season.

Clearly SG has made progress.

we're talking about kilmarnock FFS
 
It doesn't really count for much when we completely collapse after the winter break. It ignores cause and effect when comparing to past title winning teams anyway. In all of those seasons the title race was very much alive in February, this season it's practically over.
 
The simple fact is that they are 7(10) points ahead of us and no other team looks capable of taking points off them. Would they have lost to Kilmarnock the other night?

All that said, I am happy with progress.

To be honest I always feared we would start running out of steam this season, if my memory serves then I believe if we get to the final stages of most cups then we are looking at a 60+ matches season?
 
The simple fact is that they are 7(10) points ahead of us and no other team looks capable of taking points off them. Would they have lost to Kilmarnock the other night?

All that said, I am happy with progress.

To be honest I always feared we would start running out of steam this season, if my memory serves then I believe if we get to the final stages of most cups then we are looking at a 60+ matches season?
I’m with you on that. The sheer number of games has to catch up with you at some point. This could be it for us.
 
The simple fact is that they are 7(10) points ahead of us and no other team looks capable of taking points off them. Would they have lost to Kilmarnock the other night?

All that said, I am happy with progress.

To be honest I always feared we would start running out of steam this season, if my memory serves then I believe if we get to the final stages of most cups then we are looking at a 60+ matches season?
Even if we get knocked out by Braga and Hearts it would be 61 competitive games played this season.

Near 70 if we get to the final of the SC and progress further in Europe.
 
There are some with little patience. It's all about 'now'.

When they don't get "now", they demand change. If changes doesn't satisfy them within 12-18 months, they'll demand more "now" meaning more change.

At some point, the Club needs stability, continuity and allowed to build. It's unfortunate but that's the reality.
Spot on BB, and that is the real danger that would cause us to become just another club.

We have had 23 permanent managers (including match secretaries between 1875 and 1899). Think about that for a minute, 23 managers in close to 150 years. Were it not for the last 8 years, we'd be on 20.
Hearts are currently on their 47th since 1901.
The poets are now on number 20, despite having went through 6 in the 90s alone.

Stability contributes significantly to success.

We cannot give in to the instant gratification demands, because then we end up like Man Utd are now, or worse, Leeds.

@ID10 was spot on in his blog this week where he said that we need to dig in and galvanise - the players, the staff, and the support. We've seen multiple posts telling us how they're scunnered with the players and they had better buck up and earn the support. That's not how it works. Same with 'the players need to lift the support'. That is literally the opposite of what's supposed to be happening.
 

Doesn't ease the disappointment of the past 5 league games, just emphasises even more how well the Scummy lot are doing under a manager who, we were assured, would crumble as soon as we exerted some pressure.

However I get the point, and it should not be lost, that we have improved immeasurably since SG's arrival. But there is undoubtably a fragility within the squad that rears its head when success comes with reach. We are close to being a damn good side but that final missing ingredient,
that will see us across the winning line, still eludes us.
 
Jack has been injured twice this season.

Davis has been vastly overrated imo and has got worse after the break.

Kamara is a total bargain but nowhere near the level of consistency we need.

Nearly all of our European games are when the team was fresher and to repeat allows our team to play to it's strengths. Scottish football is a different challenge.

People are overthinking things-it's not bottling or formations or anything else it's a pretty stretched squad that has had different issues come together at the same time not least 3 or more key players missing at a time along with a team wide drop in form...collectively and individually.
There has been no overthinking,the next time we drop points check how many key players are missing,clearly Rangers can`t go to places like Pittodrie,Tynecastle and Rugby Park with a weakened team selection and win even when taking the lead,we`ll need to agree to disagree on the team selection being key to this.For the rest of the season outwith injuries and suspensions I`m hoping our team selection will be Greegsy,Tav,Goldson,Katic/Helander,Barisic, Davis,Jack, Kamara Kent,Alfie and one other player from either Hagi,Aribo or Arfield
 
The gap between us/Celtic and the rest of the SPL is arguably as big as it’s ever been so using seasons from 8/9 years ago as a benchmark hardly tells the full story.

It means absolutely nothing, we need to be matching Celtics results rather than comparing how we done in the past. It’s a boring argument
 
It quite clearly is a collapse over three weeks.......you do remember what SG inherited no?

Whilst the club has stretched itself to finance SG we are still a fair bit away from the squad quality they have.

You can focus on the negatives but the reality is in league terms we are miles ahead of everyone except them and noticeably better than last season.

Clearly SG has made progress.
The progress is tangible and easily measured.
The last few weeks have seen an unfortunate dip in form, but the project is still very much one of obvious progress.
Next week we play in Europe for the first time in a decade after Christmas.
Steven Gerrard is under pressure, but so was Klopp even after he won the Champions League!
I think Gerrard will understand why that pressure is there and I am sure he will respond to it properly.
 
Poorer standard of opposition has to be taken into account.
Using Europe as a measure it's obvious both us and them have pretty strong teams just now. It reminds me of the last few years of our nine a row, where both us and them were pretty relentless and raised our game.

Think our problem is we don't have the same squad depth as them. Hopefully, we can fix that in the summer. The likes of Flannegan just aren't good enough and can't give anywhere near the performance of the players they are replacing when we have injuries.
 
There has been no overthinking,the next time we drop points check how many key players are missing,clearly Rangers can`t go to places like Pittodrie,Tynecastle and Rugby Park with a weakened team selection and win even when taking the lead,we`ll need to agree to disagree on the team selection being key to this.For the rest of the season outwith injuries and suspensions I`m hoping our team selection will be Greegsy,Tav,Goldson,Katic/Helander,Barisic, Davis,Jack, Kamara Kent,Alfie and one other player from either Hagi,Aribo or Arfield

I'd agree with your line up (largely) and I don't think any manager can deliver selections we all buy into....I'm not the biggest fan of Katic in relative terms but I thought SG treated him very shoddily recently.

Bottom line is I'm not convinced team selection has been a major factor in our demise as the manager mainly picks the best available I'm in total agreement though that the overall quality is not good enough.
 
It is relative to the standard of the opposition of the time. 10 points behind first suggests not good enough, improvement needed.
 
A statistic that is easily explained.
The opposition outwith the filth is rank.
The only stat that matters is our CURRENT points tally against theirs.
 
Doesn't ease the disappointment of the past 5 league games, just emphasises even more how well the Scummy lot are doing under a manager who, we were assured, would crumble as soon as we exerted some pressure.

However I get the point, and it should not be lost, that we have improved immeasurably since SG's arrival. But there is undoubtably a fragility within the squad that rears its head when success comes with reach. We are close to being a damn good side but that final missing ingredient,
that will see us across the winning line, still eludes us.
Who assured us of this?
 
Many well connected Rangers podders repeatedly said that a challenge from us would unhinge TLB.
Lennon is a decent manager and knows the Scottish game, he also knows what buttons to press to get his own way from the Scottish authorities who understand quite well that they are dealing with a favourite of the press and media, and of course, tread very carefully in their dealings with him.

We could argue all day about how much a team on the park benefits from having the press on board and whether or not the posture of the press influences referees, however, what we cannot argue over, is that The Filth are over-represented benignly in the press and media circles and that we, on the other hand, are most definitely not.
 
Haven’t had time to read all this thread, but most of the replies on the first page are rubbish.

What I’d like to see is how many points Celtic have accumulated after 25 games in recent seasons: I’d bet it was less last season, and in Delia’s last season in charge (probably not the two in between).

Which reinforces the point some are reluctant to confront: Rangers are doing well this season; the problem is Celtic have been exceptional.
 
Lennon is a decent manager and knows the Scottish game, he also knows what buttons to press to get his own way from the Scottish authorities who understand quite well that they are dealing with a favourite of the press and media, and of course, tread very carefully in their dealings with him.

We could argue all day about how much a team on the park benefits from having the press on board and whether or not the posture of the press influences referees, however, what we cannot argue over, is that The Filth are over-represented benignly in the press and media circles and that we, on the other hand, are most definitely not.

Cannot disagree with a word you say other than until we drop the dignified silence crap nothing will improve.

The officiating in the LC final, but more especially on 29 December were perfect times for the club to speak out. Not for a moment do I think that if the shoe was on the other foot, Celtic would have kept quiet after either of these games.

We lost at Killie because we played poorly but poor refereeing decisions also impacted heavily on the defeat. However these decisions were hardly deemed worthy of mention in any MSM match reports, or wider debate on why we lost the game in Fridays mhedia. Again Celtic would not let these decisions go unnoticed if happening to them.

Until we find a voice expect more of the same. Celtic definitely know the value of a powerful voice.
 
Cannot disagree with a word you say other than until we drop the dignified silence crap nothing will improve.

The officiating in the LC final, but more especially on 29 December were perfect times for the club to speak out. Not for a moment do I think that if the shoe was on the other foot, Celtic would have kept quiet after either of these games.

We lost at Killie because we played poorly but poor refereeing decisions also impacted heavily on the defeat. However these decisions were hardly deemed worthy of mention in any MSM match reports, or wider debate on why we lost the game in Fridays mhedia. Again Celtic would not let these decisions go unnoticed if happening to them.

Until we find a voice expect more of the same. Celtic definitely know the value of a powerful voice.
Celtc don't even need to complain as a club, they already have numerous placemen throughout the press and media who will immediately loudly and publically voice every single infraction against them real or imagined.
 
Celtc don't even need to complain as a club, they already have numerous placemen throughout the press and media who will immediately loudly and publically voice every single infraction against them real or imagined.

Spot on, but until we have likewise we gotta find our voice
 
Haven’t had time to read all this thread, but most of the replies on the first page are rubbish.

What I’d like to see is how many points Celtic have accumulated after 25 games in recent seasons: I’d bet it was less last season, and in Delia’s last season in charge (probably not the two in between).

Which reinforces the point some are reluctant to confront: Rangers are doing well this season; the problem is Celtic have been exceptional.

Celtic after 25 games.

05/06 - 61
06/07 - 62
07/08 - 58
08/09 - 56
09/10 - 48
10/11 - 61
11/12 - 62
12/13 - 55
13/14 - 69
14/15 - 60
15/16 - 58
16/17 - 73
17/18 - 60
18/19 - 57
 
Celtic after 25 games.

05/06 - 61
06/07 - 62
07/08 - 58
08/09 - 56
09/10 - 48
10/11 - 61
11/12 - 62
12/13 - 55
13/14 - 69
14/15 - 60
15/16 - 58
16/17 - 73
17/18 - 60
18/19 - 57
Confirms what I thought: in 15/16 (Delia’s last season), Rangers would have been top after 25 games; same again in 18/19, after Rodgers walked away. Level with Celtic in 17/18, but adrift in Rodgers’ peak season 16/27.

Where do you source those stats, btw?
 
Back
Top